Garda vetting - overuse?

haz

At the start of this academic year I (and every parent of every child at the school) was ordered to complete a Garda vetting form - parental involvement in activities such as music and sport is compulsory, ergo all parents had to be vetted. Given that 30% of adult men have a record and that completing the form reveals a wide array of personal data (such as addresses, orientation, previous relationships and kinship with the child and co-parent), this seems potentially invasive. The school has no data protection policy, no list of approved vetting form users, no secure storage facility and no guidelines on either the action to take or which offences / cautions / court appearances are relevant. So even though negative vetting is inevitable, they haven't decided how to deal with the "risky" parents.

I have now received a very similar order from the Guides, with similar conditions that parental involvement and therefore vetting is compulsory.

In favour, vetting might provide some protection.

Against, it exposes a great deal of sensitive information about many people who never have access to any children other than their own, and never on a one-to-one basis under any circumstances. Vetting might protect the school from a negligence claim, but would not appear to improve child safety. It also appears to overload the system with non-employee vetting requests.

Is such vetting over-cautious or even potentially harmful?

4Xcut

Is there no way you could just claim you work will not allow you to take the time off. I know its a cop out and doesn't sort the principle of the matter but it gets you what you want and if other parents feel the same then they can take similiar action.

Maximilian

haz wrote: »

At the start of this academic year I (and every parent of every child at the school) was ordered to complete a Garda vetting form

What do mean by ordered? By whom? What happens if you refuse?

Interesting post.

CLADA

haz wrote: »

Given that 30% of adult men have a record and that completing the form reveals a wide array of personal data (such as addresses, orientation, previous relationships and kinship with the child

Are you saying 30% of adult men have a record which would deem them unsuitable to assist in school or club activities?

What kind of form have they asked you to complete?

As far as I am aware the info required for garda vetting is name, date of birth, current and previous addresses.

Our man in Havana

I see data protection issues arising esp from requesting too much info.

Haz33

I may well be wrong but this school's board of management seems to be more interested in gossip than dealing with who comes into contact with the kids. Also they can ask for this info NOT order you to provide. Is this school public or private by the way ?
Is that 30% of adult men thing true ?
Also are they vetting the teachers the bus driver the lollipop person the local priest.....methinks the parents are the least of their worries in my experience they should be glad in this day and age parents can afford the time to give.
Respect to the schools best interests but there is a line.....

haz

CLADA wrote: »

Are you saying 30% of adult men have a record which would deem them unsuitable to assist in school or club activities?

According to the UK criminal records bureau, 20% of working adults have a criminal record, most of them men. I recall seeing Irish stats are similar, so some kind of record amongst the parents is a foregone conclusion. Whether they are "unsuitable to assist in school or club activities" has not been decided because there is no policy yet on what to do with the vetting returns.

I have heard that the vetting returns include civil offences, cautions and witness appearances.

CLADA wrote: »

What kind of form have they asked you to complete? As far as I am aware the info required for garda vetting is name, date of birth, current and previous addresses.

Apparently it is the same as school employees fill in. It would not be hard to use the information to deduce relationships etc, and certainly I am aware of relationship and residency information amongst close friends that those individuals would not wish to share with the school and all parents. It is a small community where gossip is a popular hobby.

Maximilian: What do mean by ordered?

Your child will be excluded from the curriculum activity and require collection from school because supervision will not be available. The affected activities include school-time lessons such as music, dance and exercise in which parent volunteers participate.

It is a state-funded national primary school.

Our man in Havana

I have heard that the vetting returns include civil offences, cautions and witness appearances.

None of which are any business of the school. How does getting a parking ticket or appearing as a witness affect the situation.

Apparently it is the same as school employees fill in. It would not be hard to use the information to deduce relationships etc, and certainly I am aware of relationship and residency information amongst close friends that those individuals would not wish to share with the school and all parents. It is a small community where gossip is a popular hobby.

Is the school registered with the Data Protection Commissioner as a data controller? I am sure the commissioner would have something to say about the carry on at the school. Are these forms or indeed any forms sent to the Garda vetting unit in Thurles?

Sounds all in all the school is on very thin ice with regard to data protection.

lily3787

That sounds totally crazy. As an employee for the HSE I alse had to be garda vetted. I have in my employment history have had to be checked in total 6 times. (each time I changed job). The garda clearance form is very basic. It asks you to detail all previous addresses and to declare whether or not you have a criminal record. It does not ask you for any of the information you have been asked for, frankly it's none of their business. If you do have a criminal conviction the school will recieve a letter back with the date and minimum detail of the offence. I work directly with children and i strongly agree with the vetting of people who work with children. There have been too much cases in the past of children being exposed to dangerous and unsuitable people. I have worked with the the consequences of this directly and it is just horrible. I understand that its and invasion of privacy and i do not agree with the details you have been asked to provide however, in the case of normal garda vetting i do believe it is very important for our children's protection.

Tom Young

I am not completely sure that the Data Protection legislation we live with, as cascaded from the EU's Article 29 working group is as protective as was intented.

MementoMori

Check out www.dataprotection.ie

Pretty sure there's something in their FAQ about this - also about organisations having a data policy

Vainglory

Does the probation act always come up with a Garda vetting procedure, no matter how long ago you got it?

Would something like a drunk and disorderly and threatening and abusive behaviour probation act rule you out of getting past the procedure where you need to to so to get into a course?