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Real and Barca have no class

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭eZe^


    An Citeog wrote: »
    Tbh, I find Arsenal's* youth policy a lot more worrying than players being tapped up or unsettled. Poaching some of the best talent around Europe before they can sign a professional contract with their home clubs, so as to get around the 90 minute rule. Cesc Fabregas is the one that instantly springs to mind. It's not illegal but it's certainly far from ethical.

    *I know a lot of other clubs do this but Arsenal seem to be the worst culprits imho.


    Agreed 100%.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭gucci


    thought this article was gonna be on something that eamonn dunphy wrote :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,303 ✭✭✭✭event


    Mr Alan wrote: »

    As for Utd, i cant think of another club that has tapped up more players, and been pretty much caught doing so, in recent time.
    Mr Alan wrote: »
    ... but they have a long way to go before they catch up Utd in the tapping up stakes, Fergusons did have a 15 odd year head start! ;)


    not that i care much for united, but show us where united were caught tapping up.

    and i mean actually caught, where it was proven that they tapped players up.

    Cos im pretty sure that if they were caught, they would have gotten into a lot of trouble for it and for the life of me i cant remember it


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    An Citeog wrote: »
    Tbh, I find Arsenal's* youth policy a lot more worrying than players being tapped up or unsettled. Poaching some of the best talent around Europe before they can sign a professional contract with their home clubs, so as to get around the 90 minute rule. Cesc Fabregas is the one that instantly springs to mind. It's not illegal but it's certainly far from ethical.
    Why?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    i agree with an citeog in lots of ways, arsenal raid alot of talent from around the world, especially the poorer areas of the world and take players from their clubs without paying anything really alot of the time, i think its unfair to the clubs who have nurtured the talent that arsenal want.... they are some of the poorest regions in world football and they get their best prospects taken from them without much if any renumeration

    this is wrong imo


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    Why?

    Any number of reasons. Maybe if the smaller teams could hold onto their young starlets and develop them, we wouldn't have the same gulf in class as there is between the top 3/4 in the big leagues and the rest. Maybe homegrown talent would be just that and clubs could develop their own youngsters without fear of one of the big clubs coming in and snatching them away.

    Then there's the whole issue of wasted talent. For every Fabregas, you've got a pile of other youngsters who never really got the chance. I firmly believe that the 90 minute rule has ruined English football and that's what's wrong with their national team.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    astrofool wrote: »
    If we're going on facts (a rare thing on this forum), then Liverpool and Chelsea were both proven to have tapped up (Ziege and Cole). Manu haven't.


    you and ur god damn "facts". havent u learned yet?? speculation is a good enough basis to form an opinion and if someone questions that opinion they are clearly wrong and aren't as high a level in football as the 1st party.
    i worked out that im only level 5 in football :(
    DesF is a level 10!!


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    kryogen wrote: »
    i agree with an citeog in lots of ways, arsenal raid alot of talent from around the world, especially the poorer areas of the world and take players from their clubs without paying anything really alot of the time, i think its unfair to the clubs who have nurtured the talent that arsenal want.... they are some of the poorest regions in world football and they get their best prospects taken from them without much if any renumeration

    this is wrong imo
    What exactly do you mean by 'poorest regions in world football'? The vast majority of the young players signed by Arsenal are signed from clubs within the EU...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    ok does poorest clubs make you feel better? dont bother pointing out that fabregas came from barca, i know..... but in general, they stole clichy basically, and a lot of others that i cant be bothered going into detail here, but check it out yourself if your interested, im too tired tbh


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    to be fair to arsenal i bet the club they take the kids from took them from somewhere else. Its the same here with crumlin utd and other junior clubs they scout the DDSL for players sign them with only intention of selling them on to england.

    Its a vicious circle but it starts a lot lower than the big clubs.

    Another one for Liverpool is a player they took from an EL sides DDSL team at just the right time so they didnt have to pay any compo.

    kdjac


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Y2J_MUFC


    gosplan wrote: »

    As an Arsenal fan, I'd love to see Ronaldo leave but that's aside from all this.

    And, as a United fan, i'd love to see Fabregas leave to Barca (Not Real "We think we are unreal and Kaka can't make our team" Madrid), so how about Ronaldo stays, Fab stays, and we call it even :p

    On a more serious note, It would be a disaster if either player left. They are always pouching English clubs top players (Real, especially), and United or Arsenal never seem to buy theirs (unless they are practically free, like Fab & Pique). I personally hope that United get Real in the champions league. Knock some of the cockyness out of them. I don't think Barca are as bad though. Real are a joke. They win La Liga last year by some freak of nature, and their president turns around and says "We've the best team in the world". They were owned by Mallorca in the Copa Del Rey... arrogance gets you no where. I hope Barca turn La Liga around, but Real back in their place.

    Real wanted Robben, they want Ronaldo, they want Kaka, they want Fabregas, and they think that all they have to do is say they are interested and the players will come running. I see Madrid as being weaker than United, Arsenal, Chelsea, AC Milan, Inter and probably on a par with Liverpool. Personally, if i were a player, I'd rather play with Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Henry, Messi, Giovani, Bojan, than Real. The King of Spain has wrote off like 300 million of their debt, its a joke.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    kryogen wrote: »
    ok does poorest clubs make you feel better?
    That makes sense, unlike what you posted previously, hence me asking for clarification.
    dont bother pointing out that fabregas came from barca, i know..... but in general, they stole clichy basically, and a lot of others that i cant be bothered going into detail here, but check it out yourself if your interested, im too tired tbh
    Basically, apart from the money agreed that Cannes agreed to sell him for.

    Arsenal have certainly signed the odd youngster who hasn't been under contract but by and large they sign them the usual way, by paying for them.

    Madrid and Barca are masters at using the press to do their dirty work for them, and they use their money and influence to help them progress... just like everyone else. Doesn't bother me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Y2J_MUFC wrote: »
    . The King of Spain has wrote off like 300 million of their debt, its a joke.



    yep, this is the reason i hate madrid, all the government help they get, the government bought the stadium from real and allow them to play there for free because they are like a national treasure!! i hate the business side of the club.. they dont have to worry about dects they just write them off or the government bails them out, i think its extremely wrong for this to happen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    good riddance with that attitude.

    Ha ha, brilliant.

    Yeah though. What a total bollocks, wanting to play for Rome and all when in a few years he might have been able to go to Man U.

    Some people, eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    An Citeog wrote: »
    *I know a lot of other clubs do this but Arsenal seem to be the worst culprits imho.

    Or is is Arsenal just pick the players that people complain about later, i.e. the good ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    kryogen wrote: »
    [/B]

    yep, this is the reason i hate madrid, all the government help they get, the government bought the stadium from real and allow them to play there for free because they are like a national treasure!! i hate the business side of the club.. they dont have to worry about dects they just write them off or the government bails them out, i think its extremely wrong for this to happen

    This has been going on since the time of Franco and is a major reason for the animosity between Barça and Real fans. One of Real's greatest ever players, Alfredo Di Stefano, was literally stolen from Barça before he even got a chance to play for them. Hatred, jealousy, bitterness, call it what you like but it doesn't half make for an entertaining derby!:D

    As regards Real being smug, I think the current team are very far from that. I think under Schuster, Real haven't been the same flair team of previous years, although Robinho has been on fire. In Casillas, they have the best keeper in the world and he has single-handedly propelled Real to the top of the league. I'm sure Johnny Giles would appreciate their honesty of effort this season though!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    astrofool wrote: »
    If we're going on facts (a rare thing on this forum), then Liverpool and Chelsea were both proven to have tapped up (Ziege and Cole). Manu haven't.

    What about Tevez. Was he not a West Ham player when he took a medical fo Man Utd?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    gosplan wrote: »
    Or is is Arsenal just pick the players that people complain about later, i.e. the good ones.

    Good ones? Watching Owusu Wusu Obeyie(sp?) tonight does he count or do your forget about the ones that were let go? Larrson Pennant etc:



    kdjac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    What about Tevez. Was he not a West Ham player when he took a medical fo Man Utd?


    Considering they were fined it seems he was never a west ham player :p


    kdjac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    gosplan wrote: »
    Or is is Arsenal just pick the players that people complain about later, i.e. the good ones.

    Don't get me wrong, Wenger and Arsenal seem to have one of/if not the best youth structures in the world in place. Football is a cut-throat business and you have to be willing to do what it takes to succeed. There's nothing illegal about doing what Wenger and Arsenal do, it's the ethics that I question. Young players have their heads turned by the promise of fame and fortune with one of the big clubs, whereas realistically, they'd probably be better off staying put, where they'll be the centre of attention and not just another one of the Arsenal kids. I just think things like "Real and Barça have no class is quite the statement to make when your own club isn't exactly whiter than white. People in glasshouses and all that!;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Y2J_MUFC


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    What about Tevez. Was he not a West Ham player when he took a medical fo Man Utd?

    Ah in fairness thats a completely different situation. He wasn't owned by West Ham at any stage. He was on loan to them (after they were fined), he was owned by MSI. Plus, I think its unfair to say that United used the media to their benefit for that. The media was ALL OVER the Tevez story from the minute any of that funnyness came out between MSI & West Ham. Its completely different from Real saying "We're signing Fabregas", "We're signing Ronaldo", "We wanted to sign Kaka but he's not good enough for us now"...."We will buy all of them sure, and good old Kingy over here will bail us out when we go t!ts up on the finances".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Y2J_MUFC wrote: »
    and good old Kingy over here will bail us out when we go t!ts up on the finances".

    Its Rey Juan Carlos I to you, squire . .. .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Tbh, I find Arsenal's* youth policy a lot more worrying than players being tapped up or unsettled. Poaching some of the best talent around Europe before they can sign a professional contract with their home clubs, so as to get around the 90 minute rule. Cesc Fabregas is the one that instantly springs to mind. It's not illegal but it's certainly far from ethical.

    *I know a lot of other clubs do this but Arsenal seem to be the worst culprits imho.

    Horse $hit to be honest. EVERY club does this now. Just Arsenal are better then everyone else at doing it. Would you rather they pay 16 Million for the likes of Darren Bent to keep xenaphobes in the english media happy.

    Again, its Wenger fault that the english national team is $hit!:p

    Regarding the Real Madrid and Barca's tactics in signing big players. It was the same **** all the time with Vieira first, then Henry, now Cesc! Bunch of ***** the both of them!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    jank wrote: »
    Horse $hit to be honest. EVERY club does this now. Just Arsenal are better then everyone else at doing it. Would you rather they pay 16 Million for the likes of Darren Bent to keep xenaphobes in the english media happy.

    Again, its Wenger fault that the english national team is $hit!:p

    Regarding the Real Madrid and Barca's tactics in signing big players. It was the same **** all the time with Vieira first, then Henry, now Cesc! Bunch of ***** the both of them!

    Horse $hit. Every club uses the media to their advantage and most of the top managers get involved in psychological games with others. Again, I'm well aware that every club does it, it's just that Arsenal seem to bring in a huge amount of young players for nominal fees rather than signing established players.

    Tbh, the reason I used Arsenal as an example is because the OP stated that he was an Arsenal fan. He picked 2 clubs out and started a thread about how they have no class. Why exactly? Is it because the way they go about things upsets you as an Arsenal fan? I'm sure a lot of fans of those smaller clubs from which Arsenal poached some of their young starlets could accuse your club of the exact same thing. Just my 2 cents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    I know barca do it, but I think Real do it as well.
    You know, When they vote in their President or whatever, and all the candidates say who they will transfer in?

    I mean, doesnt anyone else think thats a bit rediculous to be saying openly to the public that if youre voted in you will get x, y and z, when x, y and z are sitting in their living rooms going 'huh?'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    I know barca do it, but I think Real do it as well.
    You know, When they vote in their President or whatever, and all the candidates say who they will transfer in?

    I mean, doesnt anyone else think thats a bit rediculous to be saying openly to the public that if youre voted in you will get x, y and z, when x, y and z are sitting in their living rooms going 'huh?'

    True, but on the flipside, you've got a club controlled by its members rather than shareholders. FC Barcelona is the largest club in the world with over 100,000 members (or so I believe). I definitely find it weird though but it's the same as any politician getting elected, and that's exactly what it is. When Laporta was running for election, his campaign included the promise to sign David Beckham. They missed out on him and signed Ronaldinho instead. That's the side of things that I'm not exactly fond of but I don't think you can fault him for anything else. The BBC made a fly on the wall documentary about Laporta's first season at the Camp Nou called "Barcelona:The Inside Story" and it really shows you the motivation of those at the club. Definitely worth a watch.

    That's actually one of the main reasons I posted in this thread. The OP directly accused Barça of having no class, whereas I would be of the completely opposite opinion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    An Citeog wrote: »
    Horse $hit. Every club uses the media to their advantage and most of the top managers get involved in psychological games with others.

    Can you give me an example where Wenger used psychological games to sign a player from another team?
    An Citeog wrote: »
    Again, I'm well aware that every club does it, it's just that Arsenal seem to bring in a huge amount of young players for nominal fees rather than signing established players.

    And?? Whats wrong with that?
    An Citeog wrote: »
    Tbh, the reason I used Arsenal as an example is because the OP stated that he was an Arsenal fan. He picked 2 clubs out and started a thread about how they have no class. Why exactly?

    For reasons mentioned in this thread, using the media to tap up players and put them under presure. No other clubs are that blatent!
    An Citeog wrote: »
    Is it because the way they go about things upsets you as an Arsenal fan?

    Yes, it does! Would it not upset you?

    For untied fans get ready for a summer of "Ronaldo to spain"
    An Citeog wrote: »
    I'm sure a lot of fans of those smaller clubs from which Arsenal poached some of their young starlets could accuse your club of the exact same thing. Just my 2 cents.

    Examples!?

    Not all clubs are the lowest common denominator:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,591 ✭✭✭✭cson


    "they stole clichy" - lol, is he still on the missing persons list over in France?

    Tbh, I don't agree with the way the big clubs, Arsenal included, poach youngsters off smaller clubs. But the difference between Arsenal and most clubs is that the kids brought to Arsenal will more than likely get their game. What other big club in the world gives youngsters that chance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    jank wrote: »
    Can you give me an example where Wenger used psychological games to sign a player from another team?

    Can you give me an example where either Barça or Real Madrid have actually gone on to sign a player after playing such "psychological games"?
    jank wrote: »
    And?? Whats wrong with that?

    Quite a few of Arsenal's first team squad were snapped up from other academies. Obviously I don't know the details behind the transfers but I'm sure the other clubs would have loved to have been able to hold onto the players they developed. The problem is, players can sign professional contracts in England at 17, whereas in Spain (afaik) and other countries it's 18. That means English clubs can swoop in and these players nice lucrative contracts to come and join them. As I've already stated, I don't agree with this.

    What about the Flamini signing or more recently, the signing of Fran Mérida. Barcelona are still waiting on the €3.2million compensation for him.:rolleyes:

    jank wrote: »
    For reasons mentioned in this thread, using the media to tap up players and put them under presure. No other clubs are that blatent!

    Chelsea!;) Also, see above.
    jank wrote: »
    Yes, it does! Would it not upset you?

    For untied fans get ready for a summer of "Ronaldo to spain"

    Yeah, same as the summer before last. I'm a United fan, so I'm fairly used to it by now. That interview with his mother was very low though. It still doesn't mean I believe the crap that's printed.
    jank wrote: »
    Examples!?

    Not all clubs are the lowest common denominator:rolleyes:

    Again, look above.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I think the fact that Real are using the fact the Ronaldo's mum is very ill (she has been diagnosed with Cancer) and that Ronaldo is obviously going to want to make his mum happy, to try and get him to move. To be honest, I think that's why Real are worse than any other club in the world at this lark. All clubs do 'bad' things, but Real take it to new levels.


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