Blow up with fiance, miserable...

Teamhar · 24-01-2008 10:57am #1

The fiancé and I had a massive blow-up last night- long story and I’m afraid I’m going to bore you with it.

Basically, I’m Canadian but have lived in Ireland for over twenty years, my family- Mum, Dad, brother, sister, dog, cat- all returned to Canada four years ago and are happily settled. Frequent visits there over the last few years have really opened my eyes to what a wonderful country it is. Opportunities for professionals abound; a wonderful standard of living; fun weather and distinct seasons in that the summers are sunny and hot and the winters are sunny and snowy; safe, friendly communities- and I mean right in the middle of Toronto! My parents can leave the backdoor of their beautiful lakeside home unlocked anytime and they know all their neighbours names! And they help each other out! That seems pretty amazing to me.

We’ve sussed out cost of living from the salaries we could expect as specialist IT professionals to the cost of rented accommodation to the basics like food bills, gas, electricity, tv and broadband. All in all, it seems like a nice place to at the very least try out for a year or two. We could in fact earn more and save a lot more in the year than we could here. And as we wanted to get married one of these days, a bit of extra cash would be great. So we’ve been discussing this for the last year or so and the consensus was that we'd go for it and give it a try. After all, what’s the worse that could happen? We're in our early thirties, no kids, no mortgage, jobs we can do anywhere in the world. If the worst came to the worst and we or one of us hated, we both come back to Ireland and pick up where we left off. Straightforward enough. Or so I thought.

When it came to actually doing anything about it, nothing happened. There’s paperwork that needs doing, and we wanted to organise employment before we went. On the jobs score, I have a couple of very positive leads for myself. There’s talk and talk and talk from him about how great it’s going to be and the brilliant fun we’d have on our adventure. We’d be just like those kids who head off to Australia for a year. Neither of us has ever done much travelling beyond our holidays. Well, that’s not quite true- he did quite a bit of travelling as a trad musician in his twenties. Now that I put a date on when I’d like to go (this September) it’s becoming clear to me that he’s unwilling to commit to the process. And by that I mean organising his visa paperwork which is actually really easy- as I’m Canadian, I can sponsor him for residency and because he’s my partner, it can be processed quite quickly and it’s pretty much guaranteed.

When I try to get anything done or discuss with him, his resolve about his decision wavers. It came to a head last night. All of a sudden he doesn’t want to go and I’m now the bad guy and I’m apparently pushing him into something he doesn’t want, making him leave behind all he knows. This means his surroundings. He’s not concerned about leaving his family behind- he doesn’t get on with them. He doesn’t have a lot of friends. If he really felt that way, why would he cruelly lead me on with his positive comments about how great the change of scenery is going to be? What a brilliant time we’re going to have? He’s been to Canada with me three times in the past and loves it there. He says he went along with me to keep the peace, saying it would cause World War 3 to do otherwise. I personally think that’s a little bit unfair. We have balanced relationship and rarely do I kick up a fuss to get my way- there’s no need because we’re both in tune with each other. Unless he’s be going along with everything up till now and just never said anything. He never struck me as being put out or miserable.

I’m really confused, not to mention frustrated. I’m a little bit heartbroken too because I was so looking forward to being close to my family again, particularly now that my Dad isn’t well. Nothing too serious, but I would like to be near and a support to my Mum. I was looking forward to continuing my career over there as well, and a position that was pretty much mine would have been a real step up the ladder. A lot of people would say, “feck him” and go but my hopes and dreams were for both of us, not just me.

He’s now convinced himself that I’ll go no matter what he decides and thinks that in our best interests, he should bail out of our relationship right now and not stand in my way. Again, people would say, “feck him” rather than stay with a spineless wimp who fears change, seeing all change as a bad thing. It’s amazing we’re engaged at all when I think about it, but then again, there’s no date and no money being saved specifically for the wedding. Anyway, despite the truth in all that, I love him, accept who he is and want to be with him. Nobody’s perfect and in most other ways our relationship is great. But now my being willing to stay in Ireland isn’t good enough because he doesn’t want to be responsible for the “misery” he thinks he’ll be putting me through by my staying here to please him. This is going back to something I said about the depression of being 50-something, working the same job and still living in Bray in 3-bed semi-d without ever having tried anything new. Maybe I will be miserable maybe I’ll accept the situation, compromise and just get on with, who’s to say? He doesn’t think that “wait and see” is an option so I’m now in a situation that I can’t win.

I’m asking for a year to try Canada out, that’s all. Our original plan that he encouraged me in. If it doesn’t work out and he’s unhappy after that time, we’d return home and I would come back with him willingly, grateful that he gave it his best shot for me. On the other hand, I’m willing to stay here indefinitely, giving up on my hope of being with my family so as not to put him through any stress. I’m asking for a year. He’s asking for a lifetime.

This whole thing is indicative of a number of things:

1. He’s more interested in his own happiness than mine.
2. He can’t make decisions
3. He can’t deal with change
4. I love him more than he loves me
5. Maybe he’s wanted out all along and this is just an excuse

Well, there’s talk of his moving out this weekend, thinking that the “space” will do us good. Maybe it will, I don’t know. Maybe it will split us permanently. I’d get to go to Canada then but it would be grey without him, at least for a very long time. I can’t see a solution to this one at all.

Thanks for letting me get all this out.

T. x

the dee · 24-01-2008 11:14am

That's a depressing situation to be in. Hope it works out for you OP. It strikes me that maybe he never thought you'd go through with it. Me and my bf often talk about going here for a year, living there for a while etc. I don't think either of us really think we'll ever do it though. Maybe he's surprised that you're actually serious about it.

Also, it's very daunting to uproot your life and move to another country. You have family there so it's less scary for you I'd say. I can understand him being scared to take such a big step.

That said, it doesn't look like you're on the same page here. I'd advise you not to give up on your dream just because of him. If you have your heart set on Canada then go for it. He's being very selfish it seems. It would be hard to leave him as you love him so much and clearly want to build a life with him. But would you be happy? Could you settle for less?

Esel · 24-01-2008 11:18am

Tough situation for you. Has he given you any rational explanation for why he does not want to give it a try? To me, it sounds like a great opportunity to try a new life. Maybe he's secretly afraid that once the move happens, you won't want to come back? Would you both have to quit your jobs or could you get a leave of absence?

It does sound like a bit of a cop-out to me!

Daithio · 24-01-2008 11:19am

That's a pretty tough spot. It sounds like you're being totally reasonable anyway. If the first time he expressed negative feelings about the move was last night, then I'd leave it a couple of days without making too much of a big deal. Don't make him feel like he's taken a stance that he can't back down from. Let it simmer, and then bring it up in a few days time to find out if that's what he really feels. Who knows, he may just have been in a bad mood, or said those things in the heat of the moment. Try not to make it a major point of contension. If he still feels the same after a few days cooling off, well then I think you may have to reassess things...

denhaagenite · 24-01-2008 11:20am

My heart goes out to you, sounds like a terrible situation.

I've recently moved to Holland with my boyfriend so I can kind of understand.

We talked about moving somewhere else for a while and then it went by the board, then all of a sudden an oppurtunity came up for him here so the decision and move were made in all of four weeks.

We had a really great set up at home, good jobs, close to friends and family and a nice little apartment. But I absolutely adore him so I had to do what made him happy.

While I'm not all that happy here sometimes he always has a way to pull me out of it and I know I'll be fine when I settle properly. Having said that Canada is a bit further away than Holland.

Bottom line is, if he says that it's the right thing to do, which it is- I've seen four countries in two months, then I absolutely trust that.
It's not a case of our relationship being at stake if I didnt agree to come here, he's just given me the courage to see the world and experience a different culture before we settle down and have children.

I really can't advise you of what to do, this is just how it's happened for us. I really hope that you work it out- maybe he just needs time to think about it. Maybe if you wrote down everything you just posted here it might help him understand how you're feeling.

Intothesea · 24-01-2008 11:33am

Hello Teamhar

I think most of your analysis is on the
money. It almost sounds like he 'went
along with it' to please you, and because
it was all a grand-but-vague plan for a
long time. It's probably true that you're
with him precisely because he's laid back and
not particularly concerned with getting it
together in the 'real' world, opposites
attracting and all that. It seems he's pushing
you to an ultimatum in the hope that you'll
change your mind in desperation and prove
an unconditional love for him. I think his
use of the '3rd World War' excuse is tending
towards game-playing, and certainly a measure
of dishonesty, -- probably a sign that he was
beginning to consolidate his own independent
feelings on where he wanted to be, and
realisation that you really were set on it.

I'm not sure what your next move should be,
love isn't a game of demand-or-be-demanded
-of. I can imagine that you just cannot
believe that he went along with it for so
long, unthinking and mindlessly agreeing,
trapping you in false hope. Maybe if you
can talk to him and put all the love,
concern and desire cards on the table,
without a background of being non-plussed
by his behaviour, he might deal honestly with
you and realise his options. I'm betting
that underneath his indignation he needs
you just as much as you need him, that
he's partially calling your bluff. However, all
you can do is tread lightly and approach
with an understanding of his behaviour.

Hope that helps, good luck.

moco · 24-01-2008 11:40am

It's a difficult situation because if you give up on Canada and stay with him here you'll probably resent him, but you don't want to go without him either.

Several years ago I was going out with a guy and we'd planned to go to Australia together but as the time to go got nearer I started backing out as I had my doubts about the relationship. If there a possibility the same thing is happening with your fella? To be honest all this stuff of moving out and telling you to go anyway sounds a bit that way to me.

seamus · 24-01-2008 11:55am

It may very well be the case that he went along with it so as to keep the peace, burying his head in the sand as it were in the hope that it would go away. As you say yourself, he didn't show any negative sentiment until you decided on a date, so he probably thought it was a bit of a dream more than anything serious.

You have to remember that this is a much easier decision for you than for him. Your family are over there, you lived there before and you have made a massive leap before*. All of his family and friends are here in Ireland and in Canada, you're the only person he'll know. Your family don't count and however much you love someone, you can't hang around with them all the time

He will have to give up everything he knows. This is the reality as he sees it. He didn't bring it up because that's just being negative. Welcome to going out with an Irish person

You seem like you're being reasonable and perhaps you were so excited about it that he didn't want to upset you by being negative. Your best bet is for neither of you to blow up over it. Sit down and discuss it rationally. Suggesting the year's trial is the best bet but be honest about it. Don't say a year, in the hope that he'll reconsider after the year, say a year and stick to a plan to discuss it at the end of that year regardless of how either of you are getting on.

1. He’s more interested in his own happiness than mine.
2. He can’t make decisions
3. He can’t deal with change
4. I love him more than he loves me
5. Maybe he’s wanted out all along and this is just an excuse

I don't think any of these things are true. Relationships are about compromise. So both of your happinesses need to be taken into account. There's no point in you being happy if he's miserable and vice-versa. He's right to consider whether he'd be miserable in Canada.
Whether he can cope with change is something I can't comment on, but I don't think it's fair to say he a problem with change - moving country is one of the biggest "changes" anyone can consider. Most people would be tentative at least.
That he was talking about "space" and the rest, may be to do with what I mentioned earlier. You may have seemed so excited about it, that he thinks you're going to go regardless. If he has proposed to you, I very much doubt that he's panicking because he'd be going with you, he's panicking because he'd be going.

*I've noticed that people who've previously moved large distances, particularly at a young age, are more comfortable pulling up roots and moving to a new city or country without a second thought. Other people who've not moved around much in their younger life are more tentative to move out of their comfort zone. It's not a sign of weakness, just a natural human compulsion. I for example, have no intention of even moving out of Dublin. Ever. I would if I had to, but I wouldn't do it just to try something new.

CrazyNoob · 24-01-2008 1:54pm

OP I dont think youy've helped your cause with some of the language you've used.

I can feel your frustration from here, but spinelss whimp stuff c'mon really

People dont like change and granted he was just pleasing you but now that its a closer reality he is got second thoughts or is anxious and then your language gets quite strong (probbaly due to frustation but you need to tone that down) as now he is in sulking mood - not mature but its a direct result of the prior approach

You guys need to start talking again and not be delivering ultimatums or definate timeframes.
Ask him what is concerns are leave him talk about them,
Then when he finshed try help adress them together and show you scared too.

I bet he probably has a multi array of issues and just cant accept change as readily as you do, he will if you help him through it.
why not plan a 'scouting trip" to help him get more bearings on possibilities
eg show him the opportunities first hand - as in a baby step towards Canada - rather then the BIG Step first you trying to go down.

Mighty_Mouse · 24-01-2008 2:59pm

1. He’s more interested in his own happiness than mine.
2. He can’t make decisions
3. He can’t deal with change
4. I love him more than he loves me
5. Maybe he’s wanted out all along and this is just an excuse

Well thought out post.
If any of the above are true, then would you be willing to sacrafice the rest of your life (personal happiness) for him?

Seems a bit odd that he wouldnt be willing to give it a bash for a couple of years.

barbiegirl · 24-01-2008 3:03pm

Hi

First I do feel for you. But I'm going to disagree with a lot of those above. You are together a long time, your family are in Canada, you are engaged (though there is no date planned or money saved), you rent a house, have no kids. He has not had to make a serious committment to you to date. Now you are asking for one. It's freaking him out because he's just drifted along. He doesn't want to commit to move or to holding you here.
Take your time, set aside time to talk at the weekend. Don't lose your temper, try not to get emotional. Set out the options, get him to detail what he objects to and what he likes, you do the same. Then see if there is a real hope of bringing this relationship to a conclusion you both want.
I have friends who live abroad from their families for the sake of their partners. It has to be a decision you both make and are both committed to, and I think this is the biggest issue, committment!!

How Strange · 24-01-2008 3:11pm

Why are you two engaged if you are splitting up over the first fundamental difference that you have?

You say its your bf that wants to split and let you go off to Canada. That's such a passive, cowardly way to behave.

OP, from your post I would say your bf has had serious doubts (as other posters have said). But you have to ask yourself why is this a make or break issue. He knew you were Canadian when he met you and asked you to marry him so at some stage during the relationship he must have realised that relocation could be an issue in the future.

You need to speak to him. Moving out is a cowards response. He needs to talk openly and honestly about what he is feeling.

But you may not like the answers so brace yourself.

Neither of you should thinking of marriage if your relationship crumbles at the first serious hurdle.

watna · 24-01-2008 8:40pm

OP, I can understand your situation.

My OH is from NZ, we're moving there in 3 months and I'm dying to go. I've often wondered though what it would be like if I didn't want to go at all. I think if I didn't want to go with him we'd have a serious issue. He wants to go home for a while, he wants us to experience life in another country together. The plan is to come back to Ireland but from what we've discussed our life together will be in two places. That's fine with me, we've discussed kids and things and how you need to be settled for them for a number of years and also the practicalities of living in two places (two houses etc). This is part and parcel of us sharing our life together, it's not as simple as settling in Ireland and that's it.

Have you discussed anything like that with your fiancee? Where do you want to raise kids? Do you intend to live permanently in Canada or Ireland or a mixture? Maybe he is concerned about these things. I know I get worried sometimes about moving over to NZ, especially about money and the fact that I'll only know him. Maybe your fiancee has similar concerns but you're so focused on the details of moving that you haven't allayed his fears about bigger concerns. I'm just going on my own experience here. I would be willing o move to NZ with my bf even if I didn't really want it because he stayed in Ireland for me. It's about compromise. I'd rather uproot myself for a while and maybe in the future then lose him. I guess you just need to determine that your fiancee feels like that too, he might just be scared and need reassuring or it might go deeper than that.

estar · 24-01-2008 10:00pm

it sounds like a bit of a tantrum to me

- hes trying to call your bluff with all this - i think we should break up
stuff. hes hoping you get so upset you will say - ok darling, lets
have everything your way.

he made an agrement however provisional, and now hes breaking it
so you have a right to be upset. you dont sound like an unreasonable
illogical woman so this - had to agree with you to prevent you
going mental - arguement is insulting. is he for real? is he afraid of you
or something and unable to be honest? that would be worrying for me.
and would cause me to question how well he had let me know him

point number two: if he is that willing to let you go, just throwing
the toys out and moving out - LET HIM. if he isnt willing to be
reasonable and try and talk it around, then let him. there is
communicating and there is pandering.

he isnt seeking a compromise. he isnt saying - lets try for 6 months
or save up for an extended holiday. he is saying no.

so that strikes me as selfish, and quite frankly, unadventerous and
boring.

if he had a child here, if his work was specialised, if his parents needed
care, then he has a reason.

but when a partner really wants something that doesnt impact you
greatly, and you are willing to give them up rather than stretch that
little bit for them, then that doesnt bode well for the future.

i would take that space and see what happens, tough though it is.
keep the lines of communication open but i personally wouldnt be
lying in front of him trying to stop him walking out the door.

tell him you are hurt that he wasnt able to be honest regarding
his feelings around the idea and that you are wondering what
else he doesnt like but is hiding. and that you dont appreciate
false promises.

i also agree with barbiegirl - a ring does not an engagement make.
commitment is marraige and plans to marriage. what does he
think around this area

perhaps if he doesnt share your goals, you might be better taking that space.

just some thoughts, not saying im right.

The Sweeper · 24-01-2008 10:30pm

Hey OP

I'm in Australia at the moment after having made the move that your OH doesn't seem to want to make. I was a bit of a "It'll never happen" bunny about a lot of things in my relationship too. When himself and I got engaged, it took me ages to wake up and realise "You're engaged, get your skates on and plan your wedding". I faffed around for about eight months before deciding on an engagement ring I liked, and it was only when he cracked it at me and shouted "Do you even WANT to do this?" I realised how obstructive I had been.

It took me a few years to come around to the idea of moving to Australia too - when my OH first brought it up, I voiced concerns about the idea from the get go because my whole family are in England and Ireland, my parents are in their seventies, and there was a whole bunch of things I wanted to do before committing to a permanent emigration. As my life became more stable, I became more interested in the idea, until in the last six months I was the one who organised citizenship and visas and moving our stuff and the flights and the whole shebang!

What that process really taught me is that you have to be behind the move - even if you have reservations, and need a get-out clause like the one year trial you offered your boyfriend, you need in your heart to embrace the whole concept of a new life. Because when you move, there will be some difficultly settling in, no matter how organised you are, and you need to be strong in yourself to get over that.

Your other half sounds like he's scared of moving, and it's making him unpleasant and manipulative.

First thing I'd do is see if he moves out this weekend. I'd be very concerned that the 'moving out' threat is a massive manipulation play, so you'll go "Oh no please don't leave me, forget Canada, we'll just stay here". Tell him you love him very much, because you obviously do, but don't beg him to stay. If he moves out, and stays moved out, to me that proves he's been looking for an excuse all along. If he either doesn't move out, or moves out and comes back in a week, it was a ploy to try and scupper the Canada move.

Okay so the second option isn't the most mature thing for him to do, but if he really fears change it could be making him do very out of character things.

Esel · 25-01-2008 4:03am

OP, how are things progressing? Any comments on the opinions expressed so far?

Miss Fluff · 25-01-2008 9:37am

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I'd be very concerned that the 'moving out' threat is a massive manipulation play, so you'll go "Oh no please don't leave me, forget Canada, we'll just stay here".

That's what I thought when I read your post OP. It seems weird you have discussed it together and now he is more or less accusing you of rail-roading him into it. His actions could similarly be construed as rail-roading you into NOT going.

Lollipops23 · 25-01-2008 6:53pm

OP i think your BF is being both unreasonable and cowardly. You need to sit him down(preferably before he moves out for the weekend) and tell him how unreasonable he's being.Tell him that you would never try to make him move if he didn't want to and that he's being unfair by expecting you to stay.

He sounds as if he's gotten cold feet(it is a big move even of he doesn't care about leaving family and friends) and is trying to pass the buck to you because you're the driving force behind the move.

But bottom line is, he's in the wrong by changing his mind so quick and trying to blame you. have a frank heart to heart with him,stand firm and do what's right for you.

Blow up with fiance, miserable...

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