How much are our players being paid?

patmac

Interesting article from the Indo here http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/sports/12031399?view=EircomnetSport
It's about player's wages, would be a bit of a concern and seems to be following the English soccer module of buying players in the hope of staying in the English and French premiership, hope we don't end up with too many 'Leeds United' situations where clubs end up spending most of their revenue on player's wages.
Here is one part that struck me:

These huge prices have pushed up the ante everywhere. Munster flanker David Wallace was wanted by one English Premiership club last season and they made a generous offer. But an official from the club involved told me: "It's very difficult to get the Irish boys out of Ireland. They have become very high profile and because the IRFU are so desperate to keep them, they pay them very well. In the end, they decide they're better off staying there."

Would be interesting to know what our boys and EOS are on.

Blisterman

I 've heard that the top players in Ireland are on about 300k.

Hopefully they won't increase too much more, as you'll just get to a situation, where there'll be a growing gap between the top teams who can afford to pay for top players, and the rest.

It'd also just push up ticket prices to the matches.

Tim Robbins

Blisterman wrote: »

I 've heard that the top players in Ireland are on about 300k.

Hopefully they won't increase too much more, as you'll just get to a situation, where there'll be a growing gap between the top teams who can afford to pay for top players, and the rest.

It'd also just push up ticket prices to the matches.

McCreevy brought in some legislation where they can get their tax back. However this doesn't apply to the Ulster lads.

kmick

I have heard a certain Munster kicker is on around 150k not including any sponsorship.

marco_polo

kmick wrote: »

I have heard a certain Munster kicker is on around 150k not including any sponsorship.

If you are talking about a certain international player, that seems very much on the low side to me. I would think double that figure would be more like it. I'd say that the average would be about 200k up to 400k for the top players.

jdivision

Think the elite players are on e250k and each province has four or five on that. The McCreevy legislation means that they can write off all tax paid against future income, so based on the PAYE tax calculator for this year that's nearly e100k tax per annum before VHI and medical expenses are stripped out. That's a lot of years of tax free living after you're retired!!

I've always wondered why some developer hasn't bought a soccer team (I know one owns Shels but he's not paying out big bucks) and paid players big money in order to progress in the Champions League - it'd be attractive to the players because of the tax rebate. If Rosenberg, Spartak Prague etc can do it on a relative pittance no reason somebody here couldn't. Anyway that bit is off topic.

duckysauce

do they get paid one wage from their clubs and then another by irfu if they are an international?

gucci

do the 6nation squad players not be entitled to up to 250k depending on performance and appearences, thats what i understood previously

Podge_irl

No, if they're on an international contract then they are payed by the IRFU. Those not on an international contract are paid by the provinces

Leon11

jdivision wrote: »

I've always wondered why some developer hasn't bought a soccer team (I know one owns Shels but he's not paying out big bucks) and paid players big money in order to progress in the Champions League - it'd be attractive to the players because of the tax rebate. If Rosenberg, Spartak Prague etc can do it on a relative pittance no reason somebody here couldn't. Anyway that bit is off topic.

Garrett Kelleher the man behind building the Chicago Spire bought St.Pats last year. The teams you mentioned had a lot of home grown players in them too, majority of our lot go to England first chance.

old boy

an american buisness man just bought limerick soccer club, just a matter of time before it happens in rugby, and our navigator is getting 10 times 2 much

EdgarAllenPoo

In all fairness I'm surpirsed it hasn't happened yet. From a national team point of view the way things are now is good but the provinces don't have the buying power of other smaller european clubs who even though they may be small have tons of money.

It's not like we would lose players if teams had owners, if anything the elite players we have now would probably be on more money and wouldn't think of leaving.

All four province do have academies but for the most part they seem to do sod all for player development as things stand.

soundsham

nobody here has anything concrete on this i see, i'too would like to know too

about 3-4 few years ago there was 3 tiers
1 provicial €50,000 + win bonuses etc,
2 irish squad player €75,00-€100,000 + bonuses
3 top players ie o gara bod were on €125000+

+ €1500-€5000 for playing an international(depending on catagory of opposition)
+€1000-€1500 for a win(also depending on..............)

so most of irish top 20 were close to €200,000, top few breaking it by €25,000ish

i reckon all of the above bar bonuses have to be + 50% with all the sky money no in both hcup and now too internationals

Fishtits

Big sums being mentioned here...

... time to justify it is fast approaching.

If we don't do it this year then I don't know when.

Benny Cake

Fishtits wrote: »

Big sums being mentioned here...

... time to justify it is fast approaching.

If we don't do it this year then I don't know when.

I reckon allot of the Leinster lads may owe the IRFU a refund:D:D:D

puntosporting

In fairness at club level you cant say the wages are not being earned!
Munster and leinster are both in the quarter finals of the H-cup,munster are the current holders and leinster are the magners league champs!
They are winning whats their to be won so are earning their crust!
At international level we are getting withing minutes of championships!
Compared to footballers id say they are well worth it!

[Jackass]

I have seen Geordan Murphys contract and official pay packet from Leicester. I've also seen Stauntons at Wasps. Soundshams post is fairly accurate.

Talking of Leeds United scenario - Ospreys - built a superb, massive new stadium of 25,500 - a few years on and their average attendence is under 10,000 - they have the most expensively established squad in ML without being bankrolled by their union and have had to pay obscene amounts of money to keep the likes of Williams. All this and they've only now (for the second time ever - this year and last) managed to get out of their group in the HEC and again wont go any further.

They got a couple of Magners League trophies and an EDF championship, which is great, but until you start making an impact in Europe it's not justified.

Moncti48

they do very well, but they get more from sponsorship and advertisements than the irfu. they can make up to 10k every time they take a drink of powerade during interviews. Free cars etc. plus salary. most on over 150k not very many in ireland on over 350/400k. french top 14 is crazy money

I thought I heard props are the highest paid worldwide apart from your carters etc and that van Der Linde is on about 450k a year and Bod etc would be similar.

toomevara

Ultimately you get paid what the market will bear and what you can negotiate,it economics 101...and good luck to 'em.

For my money, given that the average professional rugby career is nasty, brutish and short...none of 'em get anywhere close to the remuneration which the risky, physical, painful and desperately unpredictable nature of life as a jobbing rugby player deserves.

Sure a few get the big bucks, but most labour away in relative anonymity for feck all except the love of the game. Most professional rugby players are physical wrecks by 35 and many will have accrued chronic life-limiting injuries which will only worsen with the passage of time. Compared to the pampered bell-ends who play chav-ball rugby men are payed a pittance and for me are worth way more.

ALH-06

toomevara wrote: »

Compared to the pampered bell-ends who play chav-ball rugby men are payed a pittance and for me are worth way more.

That kind of attitude will lead straight to the same situation as football... Does that mean you won't mind spending £80 on a match ticket so players can get paid ridiculous salaries?

A lot of people would die to play rugby professionally - fair play to the lads that have made it, but they don't deserve our sympathy as well as our money! They're doing what they love (which many of us don't even have time for in our spare time) and they're making a living out of it. Definitely beats 9-5 in an office...

As soon as we start comparing rugby to football, we'll end up trying to imitate it. No thanks. Was watching Man Utd v Everton tonight and shaking my head at how 60,000 people could pay to go see all those spoilt d**ks who get paid £100k+ diving all over the place and winging to the ref. How can fans empathise with people like Ronaldo? These guys have lost all notions of reality... Thank god rugby isn't like that (yet)!

toomevara

ALH-06 wrote: »

That kind of attitude will lead straight to the same situation as football... !

No, it won't. I was merely making a hypothetical statement of relative financial worth based on the gruelling reality of most professional rugby players' daily lives, and make no mistake it is gruelling (interspersed admittedly with moments of great joy and pride etc...) as compared to that of the average over-paid, over-valued purveyor of mong-ball.

Because rugby is a minority sport which will (inexplicably, but hey, there's no accounting for taste) never, ever command the supporter base or cultural adulation that git-ball does...you'll never see the kind of idiotic wage-inflation and fan worship which has utterly destroyed and debased the game of football.

We're at the high water mark for rugby wages right now. There's only one way they're going and thats down...and as for the substance of your point; Would I pay an extra quid or five on current ticket prices if I knew it was going straight into players' pockets, or player development?..you bet your ass I would and I think most other knowledgeable fans would feel the same way..

patmac

Jaysus I didn't remember starting this thread and thought someone had hijacked my account, until I checked the date twice. It will be interesting to see how the economic downturn will affect rugby and sport in general. Might make travelling to internationals a bit cheaper hopefully with real fans going and fewer corporates.

Serenity Now!

old boy wrote: »

an american buisness man just bought limerick soccer club, just a matter of time before it happens in rugby, and our navigator is getting 10 times 2 much

Why do you say that? The provinces are branches of the governing body of the sport. They are not seperate entities. The teams in France sold were actual clubs. I can't see the home union here ever selling off their four provinces as playthings to private speculators.

Goodluck2me

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

I thought I heard props are the highest paid worldwide apart from your carters etc and that van Der Linde is on about 450k a year and Bod etc would be similar.

you heard wrong.

goodluck2me

goodluck2me wrote: »

you heard wrong.

Good responce,very constructive.

Just like the othet crap you posted in this forum.

For your info,they are paid pretty similar to what I quoted and as a whole props are paid higher than 90% of other players.

Why do you think more than 1/3 of recruits into the top 14 are props?
Clown.

Chucky the tree

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Good responce,very constructive.

Just like the othet crap you posted in this forum.

For your info,they are paid pretty similar to what I quoted and as a whole props are paid higher than 90% of other players.

Why do you think more than 1/3 of recruits into the top 14 are props?
Clown.

What do you mean they are higher paid? So every prop in the world gets an extra 10% prop bonus? A player is paid what the club think he is worth, the only reason props would get extra is because clubs might see it as one of the most important positions in rugby. But generally I'd say OH is consider the most important position and they would be paid more. Infact if you made a list of the top 20 players in each postion then worked out the averag salary I dont know if propers would be that high.

irishbucsfan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What do you mean they are higher paid? So every prop in the world gets an extra 10% prop bonus? A player is paid what the club think he is worth, the only reason props would get extra is because clubs might see it as one of the most important positions in rugby. But generally I'd say OH is consider the most important position and they would be paid more. Infact if you made a list of the top 20 players in each postion then worked out the averag salary I dont know if propers would be that high.

Of course props are paid among the most. Think about it.

For one, their are more imported props, especially in the northern hemisphere (which is where the money is anyway), so it's obvious there's more of a demand for props, especially good ones.

Secondly, a technically sound prop with the physical attributes to make a difference is one of the hardest things to find, and it's rare that a team will be able to develop enough of them to fill out their squad without bringing in a foreigner. More foregin props earning high wages overseas means the average wage for a prop naturally increases.

Prop is the hardest position to play (well) in professional rugby, so fair play to them demanding the higher wages.

bamboozle

last year i was of the understanding that a basic professional contract with Leinster was 110k, from reading trevor Brennan's book he was on 50 or 60k the year he left Leinster.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What do you mean they are higher paid? So every prop in the world gets an extra 10% prop bonus? A player is paid what the club think he is worth, the only reason props would get extra is because clubs might see it as one of the most important positions in rugby. But generally I'd say OH is consider the most important position and they would be paid more. Infact if you made a list of the top 20 players in each postion then worked out the averag salary I dont know if propers would be that high.

Props are a rare commodity.

There are fewer quality props than any other position and as with basic economics,less supply = more demand.This pushes the price up.

The vast majority of imports in the top 14 squad are props.

Of coure a top quality out half etc,will be payed accordingly but as a whole props would be up there with the highest earners in their respective teams.

Goodluck2me

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Props are a rare commodity.

There are fewer quality props than any other position and as with basic economics,less supply = more demand.This pushes the price up.

The vast majority of imports in the top 14 squad are props.

Of coure a top quality out half etc,will be payed accordingly but as a whole props would be up there with the highest earners in their respective teams.

Do you honestly think that John Hayes, Marcus Horan etc are paid MORE than Brian O Driscoll, Kearney, O Connell and O Gara?
There may be the odd prop who gets a substantial increase to go to a club who needs them, but by and large they don;t recieve more on average than any other position.
Arguably #10's get paid more, but again on average its much of a muchness.

Goodluck2me

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Good responce,very constructive.

Why do you think more than 1/3 of recruits into the top 14 are props?
Clown.

Also this makes no sense?
33% of players recruited on contracts are props? and they are paid more than any other position, so by your calculations - they must have LOTS of overpaid props sitting on the benches ect all around the super 14.
they are spending 2.5x as much on props, and on top of that paying them X amount more, I'd like to see where you got this from.
I'm not saying your wrong, its very unlikely, and you probably are, but i'll hold off until you reply.

Blazher

You get paid for playing rugby?

goodluck2me

goodluck2me wrote: »

Do you honestly think that John Hayes, Marcus Horan etc are paid MORE than Brian O Driscoll, Kearney, O Connell and O Gara?
There may be the odd prop who gets a substantial increase to go to a club who needs them, but by and large they don;t recieve more on average than any other position.
Arguably #10's get paid more, but again on average its much of a muchness.

Hayes and Horan are 2 of the worst props playing professional rugby,so no.

Van der Linde,Botha,Haymen,Sheridan would all be on huge money.Haymen was rumoured to be getting over 350,000 sterling a year.

A journeyman prop would get paid more than a journeyman fullback.

As for the statistics,I read them in the paper,im not gona bother looking.

That article gives an idea on how many foreign props they have,thats a year old though.
http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/top14/news/183925.htm


This article also confirms what im saying about 6 lines down
http://www.sarugby.com/news/News/print/sid=5319.html

as does this
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_/ai_n16761824

wrote:

Cast your eye over your favourite rugby team and who do you think is the best paid? Maybe that wing, with the dazzling sidestep and a kit bag full of hair gel? How about the fly-half with the boot of gold and a smile to melt your mother's heart? Think again. Think the tighthead prop, the best of whom are earning a cool quarter of a million pounds a year.
Based on their rarity value and specialist skills, props -and particularly tightheads -have been the subject of almost every significant tug of war in this year's transfer market. And when the player on the end of the rope is, say, the 6ft, 19st tighthead Kees Meeuws, it takes quite a tug. Meeuws quit his French club Castres in June after a fall-out with the coach and Harlequins, desperate to sign big in the front five on their return to the Premiership, offered pounds 130,000 a year for the 32-year-old veteran of 42 All Black Tests. They were not even close. Meeuws could name his price at more than pounds 200,000 a year, including a house and a car, and another French side, Agen, paid it.

You can look at their squads yourself and see.

Theres even more of them playing then what I said.
you can get a rubbish fullback or centre to do a job but when your are in a hugely tough league like the top 14,the lack of a decent front row will cost you games.

I gaurantee that on sat George Hook will mention Frances propping problems and how many of them are in the top 14.

Goodluck2me

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Hayes and Horan are 2 of the worst props playing professional rugby,so no.

Van der Linde,Botha,Haymen,Sheridan would all be on huge money.Haymen was rumoured to be getting over 350,000 sterling a year.

A journeyman prop would get paid more than a journeyman fullback.

As for the statistics,I read them in the paper,im not gona bother looking.

That article gives an idea on how many foreign props they have,thats a year old though.
http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/top14/news/183925.htm


This article also confirms what im saying about 6 lines down
http://www.sarugby.com/news/News/print/sid=5319.html

as does this
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_/ai_n16761824


You can look at their squads yourself and see.

Theres even more of them playing then what I said.
you can get a rubbish fullback or centre to do a job but when your are in a hugely tough league like the top 14,the lack of a decent front row will cost you games.

I gaurantee that on sat George Hook will mention Frances propping problems and how many of them are in the top 14.

I wouldnt agree hayes is one of the worst, he's prob irelands mvp right now.

I don;t think the average prop gets more though that the average full back etc either, and certainly not the case in Ireland.

A really good prop will maybe get paid more than a really good 2nd row etc, but as I said on average props don;t get more.
IF they did then Hayes would be getting more than others etc. A few examples from Super 14 which is hugely dependant on props I dont think stands for the rest of the world, you think Welsh, Scottish or Italian props are making more than their counterparts? Really?

Hayes is a legend for ireland but he is an average prop.
I love the guy and he has done wonders for his country but he is no where close to being world class,which is why he would be paid accordingly,for any other club but he is an Ireland player.
Munster could get a better prop in the morning if they wanted but they probably wouldnt get the same passion,also he is needed for ireland.

Scottish and Italians have the best scrums in the world,so yeah.

The only teams in the super 14 that pay any sort of NH prices are the sharks in SA,so the average magners league prop would earn more than their super 14 couldnterparts.
Hence why they come over here,its not to improve their rugby skills.

Goodluck2me

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Hayes is a legend for ireland but he is an average prop.
I love the guy and he has done wonders for his country but he is no where close to being world class,which is why he would be paid accordingly,for any other club but he is an Ireland player.
Munster could get a better prop in the morning if they wanted but they probably wouldnt get the same passion,also he is needed for ireland.

Scottish and Italians have the best scrums in the world,so yeah.

The only teams in the super 14 that pay any sort of NH prices are the sharks in SA,so the average magners league prop would earn more than their super 14 couldnterparts.
Hence why they come over here,its not to improve their rugby skills.

sorry by counterparts I mean felllow Irish players, scottish and welsh players, not people in their position abroad.
Scottish, welsh and Italian props don;t get paid more than welsh, scottish and Italian wingers centres etc, its just a fact.
The only players who do are the odd import into France.

the reason I first posted was it was alleged props are paid more than other positions, and this isn;t true from my experience. There may be the odd exception but clearly this isn't the case, in Ireland at least.

Well in the magners we dont seem to import props like other leagues,probably because we have fewer teams than other leagues.

The 2 highest paid props in the magners league are BJ Botha and Cj Van der linde,they are on the highest wage bracket for players,along with Bod,Rog,Henson,O'Connell,Willaims etc.

In England carl haymen and Andrew Sheridan would be paid as much as the highest players.

In France,apart from carter its the exact same.The top props are in the highest wage bracket.

I dont know why I am having this discussion,I have provided a few articles to back up my point,supply and demand has been pointed out.

Top props are in high demand and there are few of them.The magners league props as a whole are utter ****e,so it cant be counted except the two I pointed above.
In England and especially france,every team wants the best props and will pay them as much as there other high profile players.

Chucky the tree

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

Well in the magners we dont seem to import props like other leagues,probably because we have fewer teams than other leagues.

The 2 highest paid props in the magners league are BJ Botha and Cj Van der linde,they are on the highest wage bracket for players,along with Bod,Rog,Henson,O'Connell,Willaims etc.

In England carl haymen and Andrew Sheridan would be paid as much as the highest players.

In France,apart from carter its the exact same.The top props are in the highest wage bracket.

I dont know why I am having this discussion,I have provided a few articles to back up my point,supply and demand has been pointed out.

Top props are in high demand and there are few of them.The magners league props as a whole are utter ****e,so it cant be counted except the two I pointed above.
In England and especially france,every team wants the best props and will pay them as much as there other high profile players.

I still dont really agree. You say Van linde and BJ botha are the highest paid props who earn the same as BOD, Henson, Oconnell and a few others - how does that make props the hight paid position?

Top props will demand a high wage, just like top OH's, top wingers and top centres. If you excel at an important position you will demand a high wage.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I still dont really agree. You say Van linde and BJ botha are the highest paid props who earn the same as BOD, Henson, Oconnell and a few others - how does that make props the hight paid position?

Top props will demand a high wage, just like top OH's, top wingers and top centres. If you excel at an important position you will demand a high wage.

I said "I thought they were the highest paid" that clown above then said "well you thought wrong"

His tone indicated he didnt even think they were up there,they most certainly are.
Maybe they arent the highest paid on a team,but alot would still come intot he highest salary bracket and no doubt there are teams like newcastle,where their prop is the highest paid player.

How many people do you know with the body of a prop?
Very few,compared to a back or even loose foward.

Its a position with the probably the least playing numbers worldwide,so even at journeyman level,there are fewer of them.

Backs etc are two a penny,there are loads of really good ones.
A good but not worlds best prop is a much harder find.

Goodluck2me

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I still dont really agree. You say Van linde and BJ botha are the highest paid props who earn the same as BOD, Henson, Oconnell and a few others - how does that make props the hight paid position?

Top props will demand a high wage, just like top OH's, top wingers and top centres. If you excel at an important position you will demand a high wage.

Exactly

Ashlyn Early Suit wrote: »

I said "I thought they were the highest paid" that clown above then said "well you thought wrong"

Maybe they arent the highest paid on a team,but alot would still come intot he highest salary bracket and no doubt there are teams like newcastle,where their prop is the highest paid player.

How many people do you know with the body of a prop?
Very few,compared to a back or even loose foward.

Its a position with the probably the least playing numbers worldwide,so even at journeyman level,there are fewer of them.

Backs etc are two a penny,there are loads of really good ones.
A good but not worlds best prop is a much harder find.

So now you agree with the clown.

You said you thought that props were the highest paid, i said you thought wrong, and you ARE wrong.
One of two exceptions may exist, but on the whole Props ARE NOT paid more on average than any other positions. The odd good one might be paid better but no more often than match-winning out-halves, wingers etc.
Lomu would have commanded a fortune too had he been around now.

I just said that to shut you up.Your tone in the first place was unnecesary and sarcastic.For someone who never posted in the rugby forum before it was a terrible contribution and you must have been drunk posting it.

You have still made out all along that they are not paid as much as fullbacks etc,they are.

Lomu was the best player in the world at his time,so of course he would be.

Il leave you with the last reply and then you can cease your terrible contribution to the rugby forum and get back to your poker forum.

RuggieBear

Ashlyn Early Suit. banned

debate the posts not the poster

old boy

my 2 cents, props are a specialist position, how many are advailable to clubs each season dictates the price, supply and demand also dictates, the scarcer the commodity the higher the demand, the reason bod is so well paid is he is the golden boy of irish rugby, the face of irish rugby.young photogenic a game winner, props by their nature are invoved in trench warefare, are not photogenic, nor are they athletic looking, because the props are not seen by joe public as been glamerous does not mean they are down the ladder in the pecking order in financial terms

daveharnett

old boy wrote: »

because the props are not seen by joe public as been glamerous does not mean they are down the ladder in the pecking order in financial terms

This cheers me up to no end. The most unappreciated jobs in rugby. Like drummers, they require daily abuse, but are no less essential for it. I'm glad to know that at least the professionals see some gratitude.