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New Audi A4 - Launched today

  • 23-01-2008 2:11pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5


    Anybody seen the new A4 in the flesh yet? According to the papers its being unveiled in dealerships today....


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭pyramuid man


    Seen one of these on sunday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    We have it in the showroom, it's deadly!! We had a big launch for it on Wed evening, got a really great reaction to it.

    If I get some pics of it tomorrow I'll post 'em.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭pburns


    Yeah, dropped in to a dealer to see one.

    Not sure if it's as delicously handsome as the MkI or II were when they were launched and I prefer the older Audi interiors - the new ones are too BMW-like for me.

    I can see the appeal though, beautifully finished, some great engines (the relatively modest 1.8 160bhp model sounds like it could be a hoot with quite low CO2).

    Audi's whole slick marketing spiel kinda puts me off though - it's a me-too social climbers car. Wish Saab would get the finger out and produce something class competitive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭mick.fr


    AudiChris wrote: »
    We have it in the showroom, it's deadly!! We had a big launch for it on Wed evening, got a really great reaction to it.

    If I get some pics of it tomorrow I'll post 'em.

    Launch of what? Audi? What is that? A new candy?
    Never heard of Audi.
    Does it have anything to do with Aldi?

    Thank in advance for your response


    BMW POWA MOOAHAHAHAHAHAHA - YOU ARE WORKING FOR THE WRONG BRAND LOL!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    pburns wrote: »
    the relatively modest 1.8 160bhp model sounds like it could be a hoot with quite low CO2
    The A4 is just getting bigger and heavier tho. I'd have me doubts that the 1.8'll be a hoot..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,122 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    mick.fr wrote: »
    Launch of what? Audi? What is that? A new candy?
    Never heard of Audi.
    Does it have anything to do with Aldi?

    Thank in advance for your response


    BMW POWA MOOAHAHAHAHAHAHA - YOU ARE WORKING FOR THE WRONG BRAND LOL!!

    :rolleyes:

    Pathetic post, mick.fr. You've been on my radar way too much recently. Do I need to spell it out to you what will happen if I see anything like this from you again?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    unkel wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Pathetic post, mick.fr. You've been on my radar way too much recently. Do I need to spell it out to you what will happen if I see anything like this from you again?

    While micks post lacked the humour he seems to intend, i think he was dubious of the fact that the poster has two posts to his name, and both of them are advertising the new audi launch.
    He might be jumping the gun... that is mod territory to decide if someone is spamming.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭mick.fr


    unkel wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Pathetic post, mick.fr. You've been on my radar way too much recently. Do I need to spell it out to you what will happen if I see anything like this from you again?

    Err, what is wrong with this post?
    Don't I have the right to talk here and make a joke.
    Did I insulted somebody or violated the forum rules. No.

    If I am the only to laugh fair enough, I will understand it myself at some stage, not worth a threat or ban though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    pburns wrote: »
    Yeah, dropped in to a dealer to see one.

    Not sure if it's as delicously handsome as the MkI or II were when they were launched and I prefer the older Audi interiors - the new ones are too BMW-like for me.

    I can see the appeal though, beautifully finished, some great engines (the relatively modest 1.8 160bhp model sounds like it could be a hoot with quite low CO2).

    I would see a BMW style interior as a plus. And it is a proper BMW style one too, with the dash facing the driver, something BMW has given up on unfortunately, so that definately is good. The A4 has gotten good reviews so far, some say it is better than the BMW 3 series, so it should be a great car indeed. One thing that concerns me is that it is priced at BMW 3 series levels, Audis traditionally were better value than BMWs. They were always a nice bit cheaper.

    However, come July with our new VRT structure, Audi owners will look forward to paying a good deal more to buy their car, as well as to tax it every single year. The emissions are so much higher compared to the BMW, that the 2.0 TDI pollutes more than the BMW 318i which is petrol never mind the 318d.

    Then again, Audi are introducing 'e' models, and these have BMW low levels of emissions(I think they might even be better than the BMW actually), so that will definately be of great help to Audi, and come July they can't come fast enough. BMW will be facelifting the 3 series saloon though in September, so it will be interesting to see what will happen in the coming months!

    The 1.8 160 bhp boasts a turbo, and has more power than the similarly priced BMW 318i, and compared to the old A4's favoured choice by Irish buyers, the 1.6 has roughly 58% more power, so I'm sure those people will be glad of the 58 extra ponies! Though after July I have no doubt the new favoured A4 by the Irish public will be the 2.0 TDI 120 e, which boasts a lot of BMW's EfficientDynamics trickery, and a couple of other tweakls found in Bluemotion VWs like longer gearing and aerodynamic tweaks.

    If Merc and the others don't do something fast they will be in a lot of trouble compared to BMW who already have the low emissions EfficientDynamics technology on the 1,3,5 and 6 series as well as the X5 and soon to be launched X6, and now hot on their heels Audi with the new 'e' models, the first of which will be the 2.8 FSI e in the Audi A8, the world's cleanest luxury car as we speak!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ImDave


    Got a look in one in Germany during the week - Very nice car. Especially like the new front LED type lights. Rear lights have been jazzed up nicely also.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    We got our second one up to the showrooms late yesterday (first one is on display inside). I was looking forward to finally taking it out for a decent spin today, but the showroom was so crazy busy that I didn't get the chance!

    My customers have driven my car more than I have. Not happy... :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭port


    AudiChris wrote: »
    We have it in the showroom, it's deadly!! We had a big launch for it on Wed evening, got a really great reaction to it.

    If I get some pics of it tomorrow I'll post 'em.

    Any pics yet?
    Thanks in advance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭JackieChan


    EI-DAV wrote: »
    Got a look in one in Germany during the week - Very nice car. Especially like the new front LED type lights. Rear lights have been jazzed up nicely also.

    has it got the daylight running lights?
    Does anyone have a rough price for the 2lt TDi? Might be looking to change my B6 model in the summer.

    EDIT: Nevermind, Got info from Audi site,44k+ for those interested and it does have daylight running lights


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭eamon234


    There's a nice 360 degree view of the interior here
    Gotta say I like it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭WHITE_P


    mick.fr wrote: »
    Launch of what? Audi? What is that? A new candy?
    Never heard of Audi.
    Does it have anything to do with Aldi?

    Thank in advance for your response


    BMW POWA MOOAHAHAHAHAHAHA - YOU ARE WORKING FOR THE WRONG BRAND LOL!!

    SAD response !!! you do yourself and all the other BMW saddo's (sorry meant fans) no justice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭JackieChan


    WHITE_P wrote: »
    SAD response !!! you do yourself and all the other BMW saddo's (sorry meant fans) no justice.
    Ah, I think your been a bit hard on him. He was only trying to bring some humour to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭port


    eamon234 wrote: »
    There's a nice 360 degree view of the interior here
    Gotta say I like it.
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    Its a nice interior. Although.. i watched Top gear, probably an old one.. It was on Dave :D
    Anyway they had the Mercedes S class and it had everything from night vision to reactive cruise control.. in other words, put on cruise control and take your foot off the pedal. If the car in front slows down, you slow down. If it stops, you stop!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭TheBazman


    Sat into one in Sheehys in Naas today - nice enough although I was hoping for a bit more. Maybe it was just the model they had on show that didnt show it off in its best light - some dodgy creamy type cloth material on the seats didnt help

    Or maybe it was because I sat into the R8 aswell and most motors would be a let down after that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    port wrote: »
    Any pics yet?
    Thanks in advance.

    Sorry, didn't get time today. I'll stick 'em up first thing Monday!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    JackieChan wrote: »
    has it got the daylight running lights?
    Does anyone have a rough price for the 2lt TDi? Might be looking to change my B6 model in the summer.

    EDIT: Nevermind, Got info from Audi site,44k+ for those interested and it does have daylight running lights

    They all have the daytime running lights, but you only get the cool looking LED lights if you get Xenons, otherwise you just get bulbs.

    If you're looking to change in the summer, check out the VRT Changes sticky - it has some good information on what's likely to happen on 1st July.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    PM sent chris, feel free to answe here if you want to avoid similar questions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    AudiChris wrote: »
    If you're looking to change in the summer, check out the VRT Changes sticky - it has some good information on what's likely to happen on 1st July.

    Are Audi(and sister VAG companies VW, Seat and Skoda) going to follow BMW's lead and pass on VRT savings in full to the consumer?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    Are Audi(and sister VAG companies VW, Seat and Skoda) going to follow BMW's lead and pass on VRT savings in full to the consumer?
    Promises, promises. BMW have passed on nothing yet, and we won't know what they'll do until they actually do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Promises, promises. BMW have passed on nothing yet, and we won't know what they'll do until they actually do it.

    Of course they're not going to do it now! Why would you give away as much as 10 grand on every car you sell? But the Marketing MD Michael Nugent is on record as saying that they will in full, or if they don't they will have increased the specification instead, so it will be completely self evident to anyone who has done their bit of research that they aren't trousering anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    E92 wrote: »
    Are Audi(and sister VAG companies VW, Seat and Skoda) going to follow BMW's lead and pass on VRT savings in full to the consumer?


    I'm the wrong person to ask (I don't know what the distributor's thinking, I merely sell the things) and this is the wrong place to ask me - I'm contributing to these boards as both a fan of cars and as someone who might have some knowledge worth sharing, AND as someone who wants to receive the knowledge of others! I'm neither here as a representative of Audi or the garage I work for.

    (I don't mean that to sound as defensive as it does, I'm just trying to be unambiguous).

    Edit: Although I (personally) presume Audi will do the same as any other manufacturer - either pass on the savings or increase the spec. You wouldn't believe how dog-eat-dog this industry is, you couldn't trouser anything without seriously impacting your competitiveness!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 356 ✭✭agent_smith


    i saw the new a4 up in belgard motors. They have it pimped out with nearly 11k worth of extras on the show room version.
    It looks nice. To be honest , I know i am probably going completely against the grain, but i did not find it particularly special looking. It looks nice, but i found myself asking.. does it look 40k+ nice. I know there is more to cars than their appearances but for me its an important part when spending that sort of money. I was surprised at my own reaction because i find the r8 and some of the other audi designs absolutely gorgeous. This just did not float my boat. Similarly the 3 series does nothign for me at all aesthetically.
    Money no option, i would opt for 3 series or an alfa 159(if i was letting the heart completely dictate).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,363 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    I'd have to agree. Saw this car yesterday in the flesh and to honest there is nothing unique enough about it over anything else in this segment for me to spend all that money on it. And even then you have to pay extra for all then nice things that the demo models have.

    Yes it is probably a good car but no better imo than the competition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 the history of


    Seen A4 strongly advertised in salzburg recently, on every biilboard. looks amazing, A5 less practical but better styling


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    I have only seen pics in the mags, but would be surprised if it looks as fantastic as people think.

    From the reviews I read its still no match for the 3 series or the new C Class.


  • Subscribers Posts: 16,617 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    certainly from the front it is much nicer than the 3 series or the c class imo, it is also a fair bit bigger inside or at least feels it. Boot is way bigger than the 3 class for instance. In fact it is closer in size to the 5 series that the 3 imo. The 3 series looks like it is a size class below the A4 and C class now, no wonder they are rushing the facelift out. The A4 interior is much nicer that either the 3 or c class also. the electronic parking brake is a lovely touch as is the std big screen, although colour is extra (but not much ~200). If the same spec and power was the same price across the 3, A4 and C class the A4 would win hands down imo.

    However the big issue is cost, spec one up with pretty much a minimum spec and you are into the 50s straight away. I've price up a 2.0TDI 143 against the 318d and a similar spec costs about 3k more, although this includes the xenons which you would have to get imo. However in July the 318d comes down 14% which the A4 only 10%. The gap will stretch to 6 or 7k and there are bigger discounts available on the 3er. Then again you would be nuts to buy one until the facelift is announced and proper pics are available. It looks like it will look a fair bit different from front and back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭HashSlinging


    Massive improvement but 56k is crazy money for a low spec 2.0Tdi.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Those cars are 45k with 11k of options. They're model introduction spec cars, and they're probably identical.

    You'll see a few more of those come on the market before the month is out...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RedorDead


    copacetic wrote: »
    certainly from the front it is much nicer than the 3 series or the c class imo, it is also a fair bit bigger inside or at least feels it. Boot is way bigger than the 3 class for instance. In fact it is closer in size to the 5 series that the 3 imo. The 3 series looks like it is a size class below the A4 and C class now, no wonder they are rushing the facelift out. The A4 interior is much nicer that either the 3 or c class also. the electronic parking brake is a lovely touch as is the std big screen, although colour is extra (but not much ~200). If the same spec and power was the same price across the 3, A4 and C class the A4 would win hands down imo.

    However the big issue is cost, spec one up with pretty much a minimum spec and you are into the 50s straight away. I've price up a 2.0TDI 143 against the 318d and a similar spec costs about 3k more, although this includes the xenons which you would have to get imo. However in July the 318d comes down 14% which the A4 only 10%. The gap will stretch to 6 or 7k and there are bigger discounts available on the 3er. Then again you would be nuts to buy one until the facelift is announced and proper pics are available. It looks like it will look a fair bit different from front and back.

    Id love to see what youre comparing as the standard 3 series doesnt even come with foglights or alloys, you need to move upto the ES to get these. Both are standard on the A4.

    Drive the B8 A4 and youll see its a big improvement over the B7 A4 and most reviews ive read (@ Robamerc) put it above its competitors.


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  • Subscribers Posts: 16,617 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    RedorDead wrote: »
    Id love to see what youre comparing as the standard 3 series doesnt even come with foglights or alloys, you need to move upto the ES to get these. Both are standard on the A4.

    Drive the B8 A4 and youll see its a big improvement over the B7 A4 and most reviews ive read (@ Robamerc) put it above its competitors.

    Obviously I factored all that in and compared a 318d SE against a Audi 2.0tdi SE/sport with pretty much exactly the same spec. Once you are in that spec the BMWs are dearer but are better equipped, if you spec the audi up to the same level it is dearer (alarm, interior light package, auto dimming, multi funtion wheel 3 spoke wheel) etc as standard. Leather is also much cheaper in the BMW. There is also various options like the colour DIS, colour main screen and concert stereo that you need to go to as a based spec for resale. As I said I have driven it and it is a big improvement over the B7.
    However the pricing is terrible.

    Take a look at the linked cars for instance, 11k of options and not even leather/satnav in either of them. They are both pretty much minimum spec 2.0TDI sports imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    copacetic wrote: »
    Take a look at the linked cars for instance, 11k of options and not even leather/satnav in either of them. They are both pretty much minimum spec 2.0TDI sports imo.

    Silver Metallic
    Mondial Cloth
    Driver Info System
    Aluminium Inlays
    Luggage Package
    17 7 Arm Alloys
    Audi Hold Assist
    Phone Prep
    Servotronic
    Multi Function Steering Wheel
    Split Rear Seats
    A/T Dip Rear View Mirror
    Alarm
    Power Lumber Support
    Rear Acoustic Parking
    Rain & Light Sensors
    Cruise Control
    Concert Radio
    3-Zone Auto Air Con

    This is not "minimum spec", it may not be a list of options you'd go for in your car, but it's definitely not minimum spec.
    They're also not Sports, they have sports alloys on them, but they're missing the sports seats, xenons & 3 spoke sports MUFU steeringwheel.

    They're basic cars spec'ed up with all the stuff that's hard to describe - everyone knows what leather and a sunroof looks like, but it's hard to describe luggage package, storage package, additional lights package etc. That's why they're Model Introduction cars, they're not a spec to sell, they're a spec to be used to sell individual options on other cars.

    Pound for pound, I think the New A4 is stacking up quite nicely against the competition in looks, drive, price and spec. Noone knows what'll happen after 01/07/08 though, so that may all change...


  • Subscribers Posts: 16,617 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    AudiChris wrote: »
    Silver Metallic
    Mondial Cloth
    Driver Info System
    Aluminium Inlays
    Luggage Package
    17 7 Arm Alloys
    Audi Hold Assist
    Phone Prep
    Servotronic
    Multi Function Steering Wheel
    Split Rear Seats
    A/T Dip Rear View Mirror
    Alarm
    Power Lumber Support
    Rear Acoustic Parking
    Rain & Light Sensors
    Cruise Control
    Concert Radio
    3-Zone Auto Air Con

    This is not "minimum spec", it may not be a list of options you'd go for in your car, but it's definitely not minimum spec.
    They're also not Sports, they have sports alloys on them, but they're missing the sports seats, xenons & 3 spoke sports MUFU steeringwheel.

    They're basic cars spec'ed up with all the stuff that's hard to describe - everyone knows what leather and a sunroof looks like, but it's hard to describe luggage package, storage package, additional lights package etc. That's why they're Model Introduction cars, they're not a spec to sell, they're a spec to be used to sell individual options on other cars.

    Pound for pound, I think the New A4 is stacking up quite nicely against the competition in looks, drive, price and spec. Noone knows what'll happen after 01/07/08 though, so that may all change...

    well possibly we differ on what 'minimum spec' means, I mean the minimum possible reasonable level, which theses aren't even at. As you say you need to add the xenons and leather to these to even make them what I would call the minimum spec for me. Which pushes them to over 60k!!!
    I mean ffs how can they still not spec the alarm??

    It won't be as apparent to people at the moment, but come July the A4 is going to look ridiculously over priced here compared to the 3er. Launching even lower powered versions of the 1.8T and 2.0TDI is not the way to try to fool people imo.

    I'm not anti-audi, I drive one and was waiting for the A4, but am very dissapointed in the pricing. Perhaps that is why I am even more surprised than the casual observer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    copacetic wrote: »
    well possibly we differ on what 'minimum spec' means, I mean the minimum possible reasonable level, which theses aren't even at. As you say you need to add the xenons and leather to these to even make them what I would call the minimum spec for me. Which pushes them to over 60k!!!
    I mean ffs how can they still not spec the alarm??

    I'm not anti-audi... ...but am very dissapointed in the pricing.

    A4 2.0 TDi Saloon 143bhp - €45,000
    Metallic - €1312
    Leather - €3055
    Xenons - €1659 (if you need them)
    Concert Radio - €547 (gives you MMI - Audi's IDrive)
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - Std
    Isofix - Std
    Front Armrest - Std
    Exterior Chrome/High Gloss Pack - Std
    Interior Aluminium Trim - Std
    Leather S/Wheel - Std
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €307
    Floor mats - Std
    Rear Park Assist - €664
    Alarm - €767
    Cruise Control - €451
    Bluetooth Integration - €861

    That's a very complete spec for €54,623

    BMW 318d ES 141bhp - €44,600 (does this include delivery?)
    Metallic - €1075
    Leather - €2460
    Xenons - €1260 (if you need them)
    Radio Upgrade - is it needed?
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - €1075
    Isofix - €130
    Front Armrest - €215
    High Gloss Shadow Line - €1,130
    Interior Aluminium - €430
    Leather S/Wheel - Std?
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €215
    Floor mats - €145
    Rear Park Assist - €575
    Alarm - €Std
    Cruise Control - €360
    Bluetooth Integration - €1075
    And the same complete spec for the 318d is €54,745

    Not saying one is cheaper/dearer/better than the other. Based on current pricing, both are pretty competitive with each other imo...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    AudiChris wrote: »
    A4 2.0 TDi Saloon 143bhp - €45,000
    Metallic - €1312
    Leather - €3055
    Xenons - €1659 (if you need them)
    Concert Radio - €547 (gives you MMI - Audi's IDrive)
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - Std
    Isofix - Std
    Front Armrest - Std
    Exterior Chrome/High Gloss Pack - Std
    Interior Aluminium Trim - Std
    Leather S/Wheel - Std
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €307
    Floor mats - Std
    Rear Park Assist - €664
    Alarm - €767
    Cruise Control - €451
    Bluetooth Integration - €861

    That's a very complete spec for €54,623

    BMW 318d ES 141bhp - €44,600 (does this include delivery?)
    Metallic - €1075
    Leather - €2460
    Xenons - €1260 (if you need them)
    Radio Upgrade - is it needed?
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - €1075
    Isofix - €130
    Front Armrest - €215
    High Gloss Shadow Line - €1,130
    Interior Aluminium - €430
    Leather S/Wheel - Std?
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €215
    Floor mats - €145
    Rear Park Assist - €575
    Alarm - €Std
    Cruise Control - €360
    Bluetooth Integration - €1075
    And the same complete spec for the 318d is €54,745

    Not saying one is cheaper/dearer/better than the other. Based on current pricing, both are pretty competitive with each other imo...


    Yes but the point surely is is that the old A4 and all previous Audis were a good deal better value than their BMW counterparts, which in turn were much better value than Mercs.

    This has now disappeared so, no matter what way you spin it, they are no longer that good on the value for money count. I mean to order a car with 12k of options and not put in the most important option by a mile(bar metalic paint), leather, is absolutely crazy IMO, an option that along with the all important metallic paint(and increasingly an Automatic gearbox, though that could well change in July) is well known for making cars far more desirable and therefore more valuable when the time comes to selling on.

    As for post July, the only thing we know is that BMW has confirmed that the VRT reductions will be passed on to the consumer in full(of course they may well put in extra equipment, but that's no bad thing, I mean things like leather should be standard anyway and are a popular option), and that the BMW will be in 16% VRT compared to the Audi's 20% VRT(and the higher road tax that is part and parcel of higher VRT from July). On the other hand, the new 'e' models from Audi will surely negate the point about the BMWs being better value for money(they have CO2 emissions similar to BMWs with EfficientDynamics), so there is a lot to play for there!

    I'm not going to get into the specifics of which is the better car, I have no idea what the B8 A4 is like, other than to say I was always a fan of the B7 till they facelifted it(I thought they ruined the look of it when they did that, the pre facelift was a fantastic looking car), I know I like the E90, but the B8 is getting great reviews so I'm sure it is a very good car, though the motorcycle style instruments would drive me mad!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I have only seen pics in the mags, but would be surprised if it looks as fantastic as people think.

    From the reviews I read its still no match for the 3 series or the new C Class.

    One passed me in Lucan, was immediately eye catching, something the 3 series has never been (to me). I think it looks a pay grade above the 3 series if you get my drift.


  • Subscribers Posts: 16,617 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    AudiChris wrote: »
    A4 2.0 TDi Saloon 143bhp - €45,000
    Metallic - €1312
    Leather - €3055
    Xenons - €1659 (if you need them)
    Concert Radio - €547 (gives you MMI - Audi's IDrive)
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - Std
    Isofix - Std
    Front Armrest - Std
    Exterior Chrome/High Gloss Pack - Std
    Interior Aluminium Trim - Std
    Leather S/Wheel - Std
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €307
    Floor mats - Std
    Rear Park Assist - €664
    Alarm - €767
    Cruise Control - €451
    Bluetooth Integration - €861

    That's a very complete spec for €54,623

    BMW 318d ES 141bhp - €44,600 (does this include delivery?)
    Metallic - €1075
    Leather - €2460
    Xenons - €1260 (if you need them)
    Radio Upgrade - is it needed?
    Alloys - Std
    Climate Control - €1075
    Isofix - €130
    Front Armrest - €215
    High Gloss Shadow Line - €1,130
    Interior Aluminium - €430
    Leather S/Wheel - Std?
    Upgrade to MUFU S/wheel - €215
    Floor mats - €145
    Rear Park Assist - €575
    Alarm - €Std
    Cruise Control - €360
    Bluetooth Integration - €1075
    And the same complete spec for the 318d is €54,745

    Not saying one is cheaper/dearer/better than the other. Based on current pricing, both are pretty competitive with each other imo...


    I think if you base it on the SE it isn't as close, but I would consider the xenons on the audi as needed as they have made it so my making such a big deal of them but not required on the Bmw. Also the high gloss shadow line isn't required. It is equivalent to the sline interior pack on the audi not the std spec. You have also left out the requirement to pay ~ 900 to get climate control with a display which most people would consider very basic. So I stick by my 2-3k difference. Will update with the specs I used later. However as I said the audi will come down 10% in July, the BMW 14% and will be in a lower tax bracket also. IMO audi will need to buck up their ideas and options cost to compete.

    Another point would be the ipod integration at 400 or so in the bmw, ah the audi is similar you say for ipod, except you need to pay for satnav to be allowed get it!!

    Also the sline v msport costs are a world apart based on latest information, getting toward a 5k diff at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭MercMad


    Audi's have always been under specced and expensive to option, so nothing has changed ( multi function wheel is optional ?? )

    They are an inferior car to a Passat so why bother. Audi like to think they compete with BMW and Merc but they certainly dont in this class. Even the A5 lacks equipment that the CLK, launched in 2002, has as standard !

    I'm not anti Audi either but its just too little for the money, and the quality took a nosedive with the last model too. The original A4 was a bland but well built quality motor, but they haven't been there since. BTW the original A4 was significantly cheaper to buy the the 3 or the C !

    Like many of you I am curious as to why E92 turns everything into a discussion about emissions and how BMW are so far ahead of Merc, however he is quite right. Now Merc may launch some new engines soon but after July I could buy a used 530d, which would be similarly priced to an E-Class or CLK, and the road tax will be within a few bob of a pre July 08 200Kompressor !

    Unless that changes my next car will be a BMW !

    I wouldn't buy an Audi as they are simply not in the same class as the other Germans, on any level. The A5 cannot comete with the 3 and the CLK is simply nicer, despite its age !

    I do like the A6 and I would take an A8 over an S-Class anyday !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    MercMad wrote: »
    Like many of you I am curious as to why E92 turns everything into a discussion about emissions and how BMW are so far ahead of Merc, however he is quite right. Now Merc may launch some new engines soon but after July I could buy a used 530d, which would be similarly priced to an E-Class or CLK, and the road tax will be within a few bob of a pre July 08 200Kompressor!
    Not only that, but you could buy a petrol 6 pot 5 series and it will be in the same VRT bracket as the 530d(with the slushbox of course).

    The reason I keep mentioning emissions is very simple really: in 5 months time anything registered will be VRT'd and road taxed on them so from that point of view they are extremely important. Before december, it only mattered to eco mentalists, but now it is going to matter in terms of how much money must be shelled out to the Government when you buy and every year when you tax them. It will make some cars very good value for money, and others seem extremely overpriced.

    As for Audi, I've no pre disposition against them, the only one I don't like is the A3 and that is because it is a VW Golf or if I were to be extremly crude a Skoda Octavia in a fancier frock. The bigger ones are not nearly as heavily based on a VW, so I've nothing against them there, I really liked the look of them before they changed the grille for that big ugly yoke you see these days, and as for Mercs, I always thought they were overpriced, but all the old ones lasted forever, whereas the new ones are well known for not being good at all, and they keep trying to be like a BMW these days, and I'm sorry but if I want a car that's like a BMW then I'll buy a BMW. I like Mercs that look like tanks and were extremely elegant like the W123 or W140 and were as well made as them too, but these days you're paying for a badge and nothing more IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭MercMad


    The reason I keep mentioning emissions is very simple really: in 5 months time anything registered will be VRT'd and road taxed on them so from that point of view they are extremely important. Before december, it only mattered to eco mentalists, but now it is going to matter in terms of how much money must be shelled out to the Government when you buy and every year when you tax them. It will make some cars very good value for money, and others seem extremely overpriced.

    ..........yeah I know, I wasn't really having a go !

    Appreciate the info !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RedorDead


    MercMad wrote: »
    Audi's have always been under specced and expensive to option, so nothing has changed ( multi function wheel is optional ?? )

    They are an inferior car to a Passat so why bother. Audi like to think they compete with BMW and Merc but they certainly dont in this class. Even the A5 lacks equipment that the CLK, launched in 2002, has as standard !
    I'm not anti Audi either but its just too little for the money, and the quality took a nosedive with the last model too. The original A4 was a bland but well built quality motor, but they haven't been there since. BTW the original A4 was significantly cheaper to buy the the 3 or the C !

    Example of this please???

    Also, drive the passat, drive the new A4 and then formulate your opinion again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    RedorDead wrote: »
    Example of this please???
    +1
    MercMad wrote: »
    Audi's have always been under specced and expensive to option, so nothing has changed ( multi function wheel is optional ?? )
    MUFU is optional on Audi & BMW as per my spec. Is it standard on C-Class?
    MercMad wrote: »
    I'm not anti Audi either but its just too little for the money, and the quality took a nosedive with the last model too. The original A4 was a bland but well built quality motor, but they haven't been there since. BTW the original A4 was significantly cheaper to buy the the 3 or the C !
    Build quality is still very good for BMW, Audi (& VW), especially compared to recent Mercs
    MercMad wrote: »
    I wouldn't buy an Audi as they are simply not in the same class as the other Germans, on any level. The A5 cannot comete with the 3 and the CLK is simply nicer, despite its age !
    A very subjective statement...
    copacetic wrote: »
    I think if you base it on the SE it isn't as close, but I would consider the xenons on the audi as needed as they have made it so my making such a big deal of them but not required on the Bmw. Also the high gloss shadow line isn't required. It is equivalent to the sline interior pack on the audi not the std spec. You have also left out the requirement to pay ~ 900 to get climate control with a display which most people would consider very basic. So I stick by my 2-3k difference. Will update with the specs I used later. However as I said the audi will come down 10% in July, the BMW 14% and will be in a lower tax bracket also. IMO audi will need to buck up their ideas and options cost to compete.
    I was merely trying to get like-with-like. I wouldn't bother with Xenons on either car, my driving doesn't need it.
    I'm not sure what the High Gloss Shadow Line is, I presumed it was an exterior sprinkling of bits, apologies.
    Climate control is standard, the display you refer to is the MMI and not required for Cllimate. Also it's available from €547, included in a radio upgrade.
    I'm waiting for the post-July Audi price lists just like the rest of you, so I'm not taking that into account in my comparisons.
    copacetic wrote: »
    IMO audi will need to buck up their ideas and options cost to compete.
    Not sure what's meant by this...
    copacetic wrote: »
    Another point would be the ipod integration at 400 or so in the bmw, ah the audi is similar you say for ipod, except you need to pay for satnav to be allowed get it!!
    iPod needs Sat Nav. We're not happy with that either, it's a pain in the arse.
    You do get an SD slot on the Concert radio (standard on the A5, €547 on the A4), so you can carry a 4GB stick of songs (or several, they're only €30ish. A relative bargain compared to buying an iPod. I've always been a Creative Zen kinda guy anyway). Most of my customers are happy enough with using an SD card. NONE of them have decided not to buy an A4 just because they can't hook up their iPod...
    copacetic wrote: »
    Also the sline v msport costs are a world apart based on latest information, getting toward a 5k diff at the moment.
    S-Line Sports Pack is about €5k, how much is the M-Sport pack?
    E92 wrote: »
    Yes but the point surely is is that the old A4 and all previous Audis were a good deal better value than their BMW counterparts, which in turn were much better value than Mercs. This has now disappeared so, no matter what way you spin it, they are no longer that good on the value for money count.
    Audi used to be cheaper than BMW & Merc, they also used to be glorified VWs. They're trying to get away from that at the moment.
    They were in the Volvo/Saab bracket and now they're mentioned in the same breath as Merc and BMW - that's a hard trick to pull! You'll see them differentiate more over the next few years and really bring the fight to Merc and BMW (BMW in particular).
    E92 wrote: »
    I mean to order a car with 12k of options and not put in the most important option by a mile(bar metalic paint), leather, is absolutely crazy IMO,
    Again, this is a Model Introduction spec. I GUARANTEE that no punter will ever walk in and spec one of these up for themselves. It's not spec'ed to sell as a complete car, it's spec'ed to sell options on other cars.
    E92 wrote: »
    an option that along with the all important metallic paint(and increasingly an Automatic gearbox, though that could well change in July) is well known for making cars far more desirable and therefore more valuable when the time comes to selling on.
    Auto is available on all Audis, it's just not on this particular (admittedly odd-ball) spec.
    E92 wrote: »
    As for post July, the only thing we know is that BMW has confirmed that the VRT reductions will be passed on to the consumer in full(of course they may well put in extra equipment, but that's no bad thing, I mean things like leather should be standard anyway and are a popular option), and that the BMW will be in 16% VRT compared to the Audi's 20% VRT(and the higher road tax that is part and parcel of higher VRT from July). On the other hand, the new 'e' models from Audi will surely negate the point about the BMWs being better value for money(they have CO2 emissions similar to BMWs with EfficientDynamics), so there is a lot to play for there!
    I'm hoping the 'e' models do their job, but I'm saying nothing until ALL the distributors release their new price lists.
    E92 wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the specifics of which is the better car, I have no idea what the B8 A4 is like, other than to say I was always a fan of the B7 till they facelifted it(I thought they ruined the look of it when they did that, the pre facelift was a fantastic looking car)

    I think a lot of this debate is becoming very, very subjective, and I don't think that was the point of the thread. That three of the main contributors at the moment are AudiChris, MercMad and E92 should speak volumes. Let's wind the rants down a little...
    I've always loved the 3 and 5 Series, they're fantastic to drive.
    The Merc saloons have always dominated their niche, there's few production cars that have as great a sense of occassion as a well spec'ed Merc saloon.
    I love Audi, I have since the BTCC days of the 90s. That's why I chose a job where I get to sit and look at them all day.
    Cars are emotive, you could stack up a million reasons why your car is better than mine, if I believe that my car represents me, does what I need it to do and conveys the image I want to project, then you'll never convince me otherwise! Each to their own...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭MercMad


    RedorDead wrote: »
    Example of this please???

    Also, drive the passat, drive the new A4 and then formulate your opinion again


    ...........I haven't driven the latest A4, but we have a '06 version here and a '07 Passat !

    Both are diesel and the Passat is better value !

    I have NO intention of taking a new A4 for a test drive, it will never be THAT good !

    As for examples, and I know you will come back to me with examples of where the A5 scores over the CLK but these details should not have been missed from the basic spec.

    Auto headlights
    Auto wipers
    Rear opening windows -electric
    Folding rear seats 50-50
    Automatic seatbelt presenter
    Multi disc CD player
    Auto fold rear headrests
    Speed limiter


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    RedorDead wrote: »
    Id love to see what youre comparing as the standard 3 series doesnt even come with foglights or alloys, you need to move upto the ES to get these. Both are standard on the A4.

    Drive the B8 A4 and youll see its a big improvement over the B7 A4 and most reviews ive read (@ Robamerc) put it above its competitors.

    And the only 3 series without alloys and foglights is the soon to be discontinued 316i! The 318i/d, and 320i/d are ES spec minimum these days.

    The reviews of the B8 A4 I've read say usually that it is nearly as good, as good or slightly better than the 3 series(the previous favourite). So they're pretty much as good as each other if the motoring press is to be believed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    MercMad wrote: »
    As for examples, and I know you will come back to me with examples of where the A5 scores over the CLK but these details should not have been missed from the basic spec.


    Auto headlights - included as standard
    Auto wipers - included as standard
    Rear opening windows -electric - not needed, it's a coupe
    Folding rear seats 50-50 - included as standard
    Automatic seatbelt presenter - is this really a legitimate concern?
    Multi disc CD player - no. MP3 CD Single disk player with SD card reader as standard.
    Auto fold rear headrests - Is this necessary? Does anyone do this other than Merc?
    Speed limiter - Is this really a legitimate concern?

    You missed rear parking sensors, cruise control, Xenon headlights, front fogs, MMI (like the Comand system), etc.


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