Why was the scumbag let in?

gurramok

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0121/coughlans.html

rte wrote:

A 19-year-old man has been sentenced to life in prison for what was described as a mindless, senseless and savage attack on a 37-year-old mother of two in Longford last year.

Brozovsky, who is a father of one, has 25 previous convictions in the Czech Republic, for theft, extortion and battery and two convictions in Belgium for theft and aggravated theft.

What happened to these so called background checks? :mad:

Why are we importing scum to add to the scum already here?? :mad:

A fuppin disgrace!

RuggieBear

EU country

wyndham

Most of our home grown scum are exported to Spain, so fair is fair.

Overheal

EU country or no: there comes a point when a red flag should be placed on you.

cooperguy

When he gets out he better be deported.

Terry

I thought this was going ot be a joke.

Then I read it and realised it is.

everyone knows that there are no scumbags in other countries.

gucci

what was almost as bad as his background/history was some of the stuff that was written about the woman in this case on the days after her death in part of the press. absolutely disgraceful.

5starpool

Is he not here a few years so most of the crimes would have been as a juvenile? Would this mean that his previous crimes were not taken into account for sentencing?

Prick should be locked away for life, never mind deporting him when he gets out.

GhostInTheRuins

Terry wrote: »

everyone knows that there are no scumbags in other countries.

No, but clearly people don't care about scumbag attacks if they're our scumbags doing them. :rolleyes:

Dudess

Terry wrote: »

I thought this was going ot be a joke.

Then I read it and realised it is.

everyone knows that there are no scumbags in other countries.

While I agree the wording of the opening post is very knee-jerk and "Evening Herald" it is quite surprising, considering the guy's list of previous convictions - and at only 19 years of age.

gurramok

Dudess, i thought it was outrageous that this guy wasn't red flagged on entering the country.
It ain't right that scum like that can move between countries un-impeded whether its Ireland, Spain or Czech republic and that goes for Irish scum moving abroad to Spain(drug barons come to mind on that one) too.

stepbar

<*raised eyebrows*> Welcome to the EU </*raised eyebrows*>.

squibs

Where do you draw the line for admission? Unpaid speeding tickets? Tax evasion? Drunken assault 20 years ago? Serial murder?

If we did draw the line, how long before we'd be kicked out of the EU?

Is it free movement for citizens or just for model citizens?

Do you want to wait in line at the airport while everybody's criminal record is checked prior to entry?

The issue is not why was he left in - it's why was he left out (of jail in the state where he committed the offences).

Stabshauptmann

Its no different from a Dublin scumbag going to Cork...

What happened was terrible, and Im in full agreement that hes a scum bag and should be locked away, but this isnt a foreign policy issue

Jackz

Q. Are you a murderous scumbag here for the rape and pilage(?) ?
A. No.

Next. . . .

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'm sure there's a bleeding hearted liberal lurking somewhere ready to make excuse's for him, then tell us we're all so horrible for locking him up and how disgraceful we are for not inviting his extended family over for weekend prison visits to the poor cretin.

Tha Gopher

D.T. Jesus wrote: »

No, but clearly people don't care about scumbag attacks if they're our scumbags doing them. :rolleyes:

Oh ffs

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Its no different from a Dublin scumbag going to Cork...

What happened was terrible, and Im in full agreement that hes a scum bag and should be locked away, but this isnt a foreign policy issue

Please retract said post on the grounds that it is utter cock.

Spain and Britian allow for the free movement of Irish criminals. That is a failing on the side of the British and Spanish governments. This case is a failing on our government.

Squibs- we have milked the EU for all the money we are going to get. Cheers lads, if it wasnt for your massive help we would stlll be a backwater. But, again, we have milked the EU. The money flow is over. It isnt particularly fair but its about time we decided to act like an ungreatful friend and tell the EU to go fcuk itself in regards to policies that are negative for us.

Spook_ie

Well just hope you ALL remember this when the 1st non national taxi driver gets done for something similar, then we'll be saying told you so, not enough background checks being done before issuing new SPSV licenses...:mad:

SimpleSam06

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Cheers lads, if it wasnt for your massive help we would stlll be a backwater.

Bollocks.

Oh and yes, give us back our fishing grounds.

That is all.

briantwin

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Oh ffs



Please retract said post on the grounds that it is utter cock.

I second that motion.

The fact of the matter is , that little sh*t who raped and murdered an Irish mother of 2 Irish children was not born in this country. His nationality aside, there was a well documented history of criminality and violence in his past and as such an offender his status for application to reside and work here should as such have been scrutinised.
Let there be no doubt about it, if that guy was an Irish fella and he was living in that area and had a history of violence and criminal behaviour. The Gardai would have kept an eye on him or he would have been in contact with some liaison service. I'm not saying it would have averted this tragedy,but without some kinds of safeguards in place these eastern European criminals (far more dangerous in many cases than Irish criminals) are handed a clean slate and a chance to run amuck in a country who's police are ill equipped to deal with Irish criminals let alone far more experienced Eastern European ones.

So this whole, "Oh yeah as if Ireland doesn't have any scumbags of its own!" sarcastic BS response just goes further to strengthen the argument that is : "You're f*ckin right we have our own scumbags and we cant even deal with them as it stands!!"

I'm all for background checks and some sort of liaison between the Irish an Gardai and the resident police services of every person applying for Irish residence, European or not!

Banjoseph

briantwin wrote: »

I second that motion.

The fact of the matter is , that little sh*t who raped and murdered an Irish mother of 2 Irish children was not born in this country. His nationality aside, there was a well documented history of criminality and violence in his past and as such an offender his status for application to reside and work here should as such have been scrutinised.
Let there be no doubt about it, if that guy was an Irish fella and he was living in that area and had a history of violence and criminal behaviour. The Gardai would have kept an eye on him or he would have been in contact with some liaison service. I'm not saying it would have averted this tragedy,but without some kinds of safeguards in place these eastern European criminals (far more dangerous in many cases than Irish criminals) are handed a clean slate and a chance to run amuck in a country who's police are ill equipped to deal with Irish criminals let alone far more experienced Eastern European ones.

So this whole, "Oh yeah as if Ireland doesn't have any scumbags of its own!" sarcastic BS response just goes further to strengthen the argument that is : "You're f*ckin right we have our own scumbags and we cant even deal with them as it stands!!"

I'm all for background checks and some sort of liaison between the Irish an Gardai and the resident police services of every person applying for Irish residence, European or not!

Sounds good in theory, but EU citizens don't have to apply for residency here, they just have to show their passport, and also could you imagine the guards having to do a background check on every person on every plane arriving from Prague, Warsaw etc., it would take hours for every plane !
The only solution would be to leave the EU and require visas for every person entering the country, which isn't really realistic.

pedro ferio-vti

briantwin wrote: »

I second that motion.

The fact of the matter is , that little sh*t who raped and murdered an Irish mother of 2 Irish children was not born in this country. His nationality aside, there was a well documented history of criminality and violence in his past and as such an offender his status for application to reside and work here should as such have been scrutinised.
Let there be no doubt about it, if that guy was an Irish fella and he was living in that area and had a history of violence and criminal behaviour. The Gardai would have kept an eye on him or he would have been in contact with some liaison service. I'm not saying it would have averted this tragedy,but without some kinds of safeguards in place these eastern European criminals (far more dangerous in many cases than Irish criminals) are handed a clean slate and a chance to run amuck in a country who's police are ill equipped to deal with Irish criminals let alone far more experienced Eastern European ones.

So this whole, "Oh yeah as if Ireland doesn't have any scumbags of its own!" sarcastic BS response just goes further to strengthen the argument that is : "You're f*ckin right we have our own scumbags and we cant even deal with them as it stands!!"

I'm all for background checks and some sort of liaison between the Irish an Gardai and the resident police services of every person applying for Irish residence, European or not!

+1

Dudess

gurramok wrote: »

Dudess, i thought it was outrageous that this guy wasn't red flagged on entering the country.
It ain't right that scum like that can move between countries un-impeded whether its Ireland, Spain or Czech republic and that goes for Irish scum moving abroad to Spain(drug barons come to mind on that one) too.

I agree with you. I just thought your opening post read a bit tabloidy!

squibs wrote: »

Where do you draw the line for admission? Unpaid speeding tickets? Tax evasion? Drunken assault 20 years ago? Serial murder?

How about having dozens of prior offences and still a teenager?

Do you want to wait in line at the airport while everybody's criminal record is checked prior to entry?

Why couldn't his passport be taken off him?

I agree with Terry's point that a scumbag is a scumbag irrespective of their nationality, but part of his punishment should be losing his right to travel.

Intothesea

briantwin wrote: »

...but without some kinds of safeguards in place these eastern
European criminals (far more dangerous in many cases
than Irish criminals) are handed a clean slate and a
chance to run amuck in a country who's police are ill
equipped to deal with Irish criminals let alone far more
experienced Eastern European ones.

Too right. We can't perceive the cultural
mindset of these people in our innocence.
If you want to know someone, live with
them as the saying goes. It's a pity the
opportunity is mostly a one-sided affair,
but still, all the more reason Ireland needs
to look at qualifying its entry decisions in
some meaningful (crime-stat criteria) way.

/0.02

Tha Gopher

briantwin wrote: »

So this whole, "Oh yeah as if Ireland doesn't have any scumbags of its own!" sarcastic BS response just goes further to strengthen the argument that is : "You're f*ckin right we have our own scumbags and we cant even deal with them as it stands!!"

Indeed. Anyone posting the usual "ah yeah, sure we had no scum before they arrived" should be legally banned from using a computer under some type of mental health legislation. And as for comparing it to Irish scum abroad, just because Spain and Britain cant be arsed pulling the finger out it doesnt mean we shouldnt either. If Britain had any sense they would deport Irish criminals. Luckily for us, they dont bother. If they are happy to accept scum from here let them.

If anyone can find me an old boards post stating "throw these foreign criminals out, we had no crime before they arrived" I will eat my own sh1te.

Banjoseph- although every E European can move to France, Germany, Italy etc if they wish, they can only work with government approval which, Id assume in most cases, would include a background check. This guy had a conviction in Belgium. Its likely he was living there legally, but may not have been on their PPS equivalent.

Banjoseph

I don't think the stricter laws regarding work permits for E Europeans in France, Germany, Italy etc. has reduced the amount of foreign criminals in these countries, and anyway as far as I know these restrictions will be lifted on 01/01/09. I'm just saying that the logistics of background checking every person who enters the country would be enormous. 4 million foreign people visited Dublin alone last year.
You could spend all day debating the pros and cons of EU membership, and criminals entering the country is obviously one of the major cons, but it doesn't seem to be much can be done about it.
Maybe we should be having a look at the employers (mushroom farmers etc.) who are importing the cheap foreign labour and asking if they should be forced to do background checks ?

gamer

Theres no backround checks on anyone coming in here from the eu ,theres people coming here from prisons,sex offenders,ex killers ,drug dealers etc. THE gaurds should be able to block any1 getting welfare,or work permit if they have any criminal record,for violence,or sex offences,or fraud.NOT to be racist,theres people coming here from outside eu, marry an irish girl ,get residency,or claim welfare.There is a significant amount of criminals coming here cos ireland is now a rich country,with almost non existant backround checks,a killer can come here ,start a new life, no1 knows his past.

Tha Gopher

Banjoseph wrote: »

I don't think the stricter laws regarding work permits for E Europeans in France, Germany, Italy etc. has reduced the amount of foreign criminals in these countries, and anyway as far as I know these restrictions will be lifted on 01/01/09. I'm just saying that the logistics of background checking every person who enters the country would be enormous. 4 million foreign people visited Dublin alone last year.
You could spend all day debating the pros and cons of EU membership, and criminals entering the country is obviously one of the major cons, but it doesn't seem to be much can be done about it.
Maybe we should be having a look at the employers (mushroom farmers etc.) who are importing the cheap foreign labour and asking if they should be forced to do background checks ?

Not certain but I think Germany requires all residents, including citizens, to inform the authorities of their address/any change of address. Similiar system herw would work that one out to a great extent.

Mr. Presentable

Dudess wrote: »

but part of his punishment should be losing his right to travel.

Only after he's been sent home, though

Banjoseph

The trouble is that the Schengen zone is now so big that criminals and anyone else can travel around most of the EU without anyone knowing where they are. So they can easily leave their own country even if they don't have a passport. And I'm sure with the very cursory checking of EU passports that goes on in the Dublin airport, any sort of a fake passport could get you in.
Plus the problem of people arriving from the UK who probably won't get their passports checked unless they look suspicious (i.e. not white).

denashpot

wyndham wrote: »

Most of our home grown scum are exported to Spain, so fair is fair.

fair is fair!! what a stupid comment! count to 5 seconds before you speak! if that mindless, senseless and savage attack was on your mother, sister etc. you be out with the torch and pitchfork. All these people should be checked before they come in not only to check if they are violent criminals and are kiddie rapist but also for aids and god knows what else they may have or may have done!

Mr. Presentable

Banjoseph wrote: »

The trouble is that the Schengen zone is now so big that criminals and anyone else can travel around most of the EU without anyone knowing where they are. So they can easily leave their own country even if they don't have a passport. And I'm sure with the very cursory checking of EU passports that goes on in the Dublin airport, any sort of a fake passport could get you in.
Plus the problem of people arriving from the UK who probably won't get their passports checked unless they look suspicious (i.e. not white).

Persons seeking refugee status from outside the EU are required to apply and be held at their country of arrival. Nigeria, for example, until recently (and maybe still) there were no direct flights to Ireland.

I was in Heathrow one night while a plane full of Russians were given emergency UK visas so they could deport them to Dublin. By EU law, iirc, they should either have been detained in the UK or deported back to Russia.

All of which has sod all to do with the thread except for the fact that Ireland is the last touchdown for people not wanted elsewhere in Europe, and as such we ought to have much stricter control, particularly as our sister nations have no compunction about sending their illegals on to us. Be they criminal or otherwise.

wildsaffy

This one's for Gamer :

A cousin got married in New York 2 months ago to get residency seeing as he was an "undocumentd irish" person..........

briantwin

I understand that background checks on every person entering ireland would be a massive task but i dont think that the background check has to be done on every person entering. just people attempting to settle in Ireland. Whether they be from the EU or not. You have to assume that to work in Ireland they must get a PPS number to obtain a bank account. Now if this is infact theough it would narrow the number of people for which to check. That means if you want to come to Ireland and get a job and house etc you will need a PPS number and a bank account.Another example : When applying for your safepass to work on a building site you must first provide your garda clearance certificate and your PPS number etc. If you dont have it you cant get your safepass and therefore cant work. I'm not saying that anyone with a criminal record should be excluded or deported i just mean people who have been convicted of more serious crimes, violence, sex offences and aggrivated burglary etc.

Another point, if there are no background checks how many people from other EU countries are here while there are outstanding warrants in their home countries for all manner of crimes that the Irish gardai are unaware of??

Does this not seem like a slightly flawed system.

For the record i have worked with many foreign people and i've always gotten on great with them. They are hard working and very sound. They're just trying to make a living like everyone else and i respect that. But like anything there are a few bad apples which ruin the bunch. much like people applying for teaching positions or working in creches they have to get vetted by the police to verify their intentions. That doesn't mean there is an abundance of pervs out there, just that these are the safe guards that need to be in place.

Banjoseph

Makes sense alright but who's going to look after the paperwork, who's going to pay for it, and I'm sure they'd make a balls of it anyway !!

squibs

Quote:
Originally Posted by squibs
Where do you draw the line for admission? Unpaid speeding tickets? Tax evasion? Drunken assault 20 years ago? Serial murder?

How about having dozens of prior offences and still a teenager?

So the line is 11 offences?

Quote:
Do you want to wait in line at the airport while everybody's criminal record is checked prior to entry?
Why couldn't his passport be taken off him?

The Irish authorities have no authority to do that. It would need to be done in his home country.

We voted for the EU, we ratified the treaties, we took the handouts. We have to take the bad with the good. Does Tha Gopher have any concept what would happen if we did "tell the EU to go fcuk itself in regards to policies that are negative for us"? We are either in the eu or not, and the smaller states have no recourse to vetoes.

Tha Gopher

squibs wrote: »

Does Tha Gopher have any concept what would happen if we did "tell the EU to go fcuk itself in regards to policies that are negative for us"? We are either in the eu or not, and the smaller states have no recourse to vetoes.

What?

The yanks would go running away, economy collapse yadda yadda.....


The Swiss seem to have done quite well for themselves economically without having the EU tell them what to do.

conor2007

hey

all the more reason to make sure the eu is gotten rid of

Guy:Incognito

Tha Gopher wrote: »

What?

The yanks would go running away, economy collapse yadda yadda.....


The Swiss seem to have done quite well for themselves economically without having the EU tell them what to do.

Maybe we should have given Hitler a better interest rate on all the Jewish gold. Then it could have been us that said " gold, what gold, that was here all along" and been self sufficient from the start.

A-Trak

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well just hope you ALL remember this when the 1st non national taxi driver gets done for something similar, then we'll be saying told you so, not enough background checks being done before issuing new SPSV licenses...:mad:

Yup, them foreigners are all sex crazed lunatics, surely only a matter of time until one of them go on a mad rape spree.

Like these Irish lads who got there before them.
Rape 1
Rape 2

It wasn't me!

denashpot wrote: »

but also for aids

Gee, and here was me in my innocence thinking it wasn't illegal to be sick. :rolleyes:

dsmythy

wildsaffy wrote: »

This one's for Gamer :

A cousin got married in New York 2 months ago to get residency seeing as he was an "undocumentd irish" person..........

The illegal Irish immigrants should be booted out of the States.

denashpot

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Gee, and here was me in my innocence thinking it wasn't illegal to be sick. :rolleyes:

would you leave a person in that had sars, malaria or some other disease??

It wasn't me!

You're talking about diseases there that are contagious by proximity. Unless you're suggesting that AIDS is similar? Also, frankly, no, I wouldn't restrict those people from travelling, especially if they came here for healthcare they couldn't obtain in their country of origin, as that would be less than human, and pig-ignorant, and I can't see people with a disease as debilitating as SARS or malaria travelling just for shíts and giggles, can you?

squibs

The Swiss seem to have done quite well for themselves economically without having the EU tell them what to do.

Yeah, but they didn't join, milk the system and then welch on their responsibilities when payback time came.

briantwin

I think we are getting away from the subject of the OP. EU or no EU there should be ways of vetting immigrants applying for irish PPS numbers or welfare applications. This way even if they dont get deported there is some kind of watch list or liaison system for Irish police to know what type of people are living in their areas and what crimes they have committed. For example if there is a large amount of drugs found in a certain area. Because the gardai have a means to check for local people with previous convictions they can have an idea of who may be involved or who might know something.

The point was raised about funding and paper work. i'm sure there is an over staffed department of the gardai that could do background checks on people entering Ireland and applying for PPS numbers or bank accounts.(As when applying for either you must supply your country of origin etc. Its just 1 further step in the process. If there are no outstanding warrants or previous convistions for murder/rape, happy days. Otherwise contact country of origin for extradition or if its a sex offender/paedo place on the sex offenders list before they end up working in a primary school somewhere in the midlands. (im sure this wouldnt go against any EU statutes.)

My sister needed to get vetted by the police for her citizenship for New Zealand . She would have been deported if she didn't get it done by a certain date. I don't propose something as drastic as that just that if they are checked people, with outstanding warrants would be less tempted to come to Ireland in the first place. Also it would mean a better knowledge of the backgrounds of some of the people we want to assimilate into our communities and work places.

Banjoseph

There's a few good articles in the Examiner relating to this discussion if anyone's interested. Here's one......

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/01/23/story53338.asp

gurramok

So they have to commit a crime here before their background check is made, thats wonderful for the victims. :mad:

bill_ashmount

gurramok wrote: »

So they have to commit a crime here before their background check is made, thats wonderful for the victims. :mad:

Better that an Irish person suffers rather than a foreigner is inconvenienced
:rolleyes: