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Irish professional inter county league

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    1. League of Ireland is not hugely followed, compared to say the GAA

    2. The National Team is shi*e

    3. With the influx of of foreign players in England, it is becoming harder for clubs to introduce English players never mind Irish ones

    The people that dont want to change are the same people that winge that we cant compete.

    Why are so many die hard fans content with getting past one or two qualifying rounds of the CL. Bohs or Shels are never going to be a force in the group stages unless we impliment change.

    Kids at 15 or 16 are not getting to join big english clubs any more, because these clubs are looking futher afield. The top four in England are bought, who was the last Irish Player to come through the ranks and Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal.

    To all those people who dont want change or to follow a successful model such as GAA or Rugby, there is no point in complaining when Ireland are struggling to keep up on the international stage.

    FACT: The current system is not working, we do need to look at ways of change, and if it takes something radical then why not?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    I think most of us with even a general knowledge of the EL league know and want changes, but that doesn't mean that what you suggest would work. In fact it'd be pretty sure that it wouldn't because you'd alienate the fans like Desf who are the bread and butter of the EL clubs. Like I say the EL needs to look to increasing the core fanbase, the people who'll go to more than 2 games a season.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    dbnavan wrote: »
    1. League of Ireland is not hugely followed, compared to say the GAA

    2. The National Team is shi*e

    3. With the influx of of foreign players in England, it is becoming harder for clubs to introduce English players never mind Irish ones

    The people that dont want to change are the same people that winge that we cant compete.

    Why are so many die hard fans content with getting past one or two qualifying rounds of the CL. Bohs or Shels are never going to be a force in the group stages unless we impliment change.

    Kids at 15 or 16 are not getting to join big english clubs any more, because these clubs are looking futher afield. The top four in England are bought, who was the last Irish Player to come through the ranks and Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal.

    To all those people who dont want change or to follow a successful model such as GAA or Rugby, there is no point in complaining when Ireland are struggling to keep up on the international stage.

    FACT: The current system is not working, we do need to look at ways of change, and if it takes something radical then why not?

    But the GAA system is not working either. Rugby destroyed their club scene.

    The problems in the middle of English game have been a boon to the LoI. Players like Crowe, Gamble, Healy, Farrelly, Gavin, Shelly, Moore etc all came home as the LOI offered more stability and better money than the middle divisions.

    We now are seeing Irish produced talent like Doyle, Long, Murphy, O'Donovan making the leap directly from the LoI to the English Premier League and the likes of Noel Hunt and Wes Hoolihan sniffing just under. More kids are staying than ever before.

    We are not far from the fabeled Scandinavian model where we sell them at 19 and buy them back for a fraction at 32.

    The system aint as broke as you think. Its just going to take a while for the fruits be seen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    nurse_baz wrote: »
    I think most of us with even a general knowledge of the EL league know and want changes, but that doesn't mean that what you suggest would work. In fact it'd be pretty sure that it wouldn't because you'd alienate the fans like Desf who are the bread and butter of the EL clubs. Like I say the EL needs to look to increasing the core fanbase, the people who'll go to more than 2 games a season.

    Again, this is happening. Under 12's go free to Rovers games amongst others. Schools are being targetted with training sessions, fun packs and tshirts and free passes for the Da and its working.

    By and large targetting adults is a waste of time. A couple of games at most a season is what you will get.

    The FAI are busily targetting kids with an eye on the mediam term and while I appreciate they are the future of Rovers, they are bloody loud!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,985 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    dbnavan wrote: »

    To all those people who dont want change or to follow a successful model such as GAA or Rugby, there is no point in complaining when Ireland are struggling to keep up on the international stage.

    FACT: The current system is not working, we do need to look at ways of change, and if it takes something radical then why not?

    It won't work, it will never work and the "real" fans of the LoI won't let it happen. Simple as that. If people can't be bother getting up off their arse on a Friday or Saturday evening and pop along to their local LoI club, pay €20(at max) into the ground, a pint in the bar and a nice burger and chips and enjoy a live match, with atmosphere you don't get sitting on your couch, then why do you think your idea will work so well?

    The real FACT is the current system isn't working but has worked, the reasons why it doesn't work anymore is due to TV and money. As Des mentioned back in the day you couldn't get into football stadiums in Ireland, this was because there wasn't a live game on TV, this was because fans couldn't afford to fork out a couple of hundred to go and see foreign clubs playing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    I think something else that hasnt been mentioned here and needs to is a inter-county or at least a league made up of more teams from more counties would highlight more talent, take for instance the town of Navan, or even Meath. One of the fastest growing towns in the country where is there local talent going to be recognised. Take some of the GAA players from any county, do you think 'possibly' had there been an oppertunity to compete in intercounty soccer, and follow on to playing internationally that they might have choosen soccer?

    Maybe the answer is to enlarge the league and to bring in more teams from the larger county towns such as Navan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭bohsman


    dbnavan wrote: »
    I think something else that hasnt been mentioned here and needs to is a inter-county or at least a league made up of more teams from more counties would highlight more talent, take for instance the town of Navan, or even Meath. One of the fastest growing towns in the country where is there local talent going to be recognised. Take some of the GAA players from any county, do you think 'possibly' had there been an oppertunity to compete in intercounty soccer, and follow on to playing internationally that they might have choosen soccer?

    Maybe the answer is to enlarge the league and to bring in more teams from the larger county towns such as Navan.

    Thats what the new A League is supposed to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,784 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    Mikeyt086 wrote: »
    Would be unfair on most counties, Dublin having Keane, Duff, Dunne and more, Wicklow having ONLY Paul McShane, Waterford having ONLY John O'Shea etc.

    Would be funny though.

    doubt john o shea would get a game for waterford tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    dbnavan wrote: »
    I think something else that hasnt been mentioned here and needs to is a inter-county or at least a league made up of more teams from more counties would highlight more talent, take for instance the town of Navan, or even Meath. One of the fastest growing towns in the country where is there local talent going to be recognised. Take some of the GAA players from any county, do you think 'possibly' had there been an oppertunity to compete in intercounty soccer, and follow on to playing internationally that they might have choosen soccer?

    Maybe the answer is to enlarge the league and to bring in more teams from the larger county towns such as Navan.

    isn't this happening now anyways bit by bit......Sporting Fingal ftw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    It won't work, it will never work and the "real" fans of the LoI won't let it happen. Simple as that. If people can't be bother getting up off their arse on a Friday or Saturday evening and pop along to their local LoI club, pay €20(at max) into the ground, a pint in the bar and a nice burger and chips and enjoy a live match, with atmosphere you don't get sitting on your couch, then why do you think your idea will work so well?

    The real FACT is the current system isn't working but has worked, the reasons why it doesn't work anymore is due to TV and money. As Des mentioned back in the day you couldn't get into football stadiums in Ireland, this was because there wasn't a live game on TV, this was because fans couldn't afford to fork out a couple of hundred to go and see foreign clubs playing.

    The important word there is local I support shels, and I live in Navan, if you are going to restrict fans to local's its no wonder the crowds are so small. Define Local, walking distance? Most of these teams fans have no Local alligence, no more then I have an alligence to liverpool, I have never even been in the city. The whole point of the suggestion is to generate local interest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    dbnavan wrote: »
    The important word there is local I support shels, and I live in Navan, if you are going to restrict fans to local's its no wonder the crowds are so small. Define Local, walking distance? Most of these teams fans have no Local alligence, no more then I have an alligence to liverpool, I have never even been in the city. The whole point of the suggestion is to generate local interest.

    For the third time, thats what the A league will introduce.

    You local team is Drogheda. They are even moving to meath.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    Haha telling someone which Irish team to support is ridiculous. If he makes the trips to the games regular who gives a ****e? I live miles away from Tolka and I didn't miss a single home game last season and made most away games too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    DSB wrote: »
    Haha telling someone which Irish team to support is ridiculous. If he makes the trips to the games regular who gives a ****e? I live miles away from Tolka and I didn't miss a single home game last season and made most away games too.

    Agreed, but I was more telling him who his local side is as the poor guy is lost. GAA forum is over there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    You local team is Drogheda. They are even moving to meath.
    Do I have to change allegience?

    I live right on the DCC Fingal CC border.

    :eek::eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    DesF wrote: »
    Do I have to change allegience?

    I live right on the DCC Fingal CC border.

    :eek::eek:

    you might have to....

    Hopefully Sporting Fingal mop up any strays the gypos think they might get out there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,985 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    dbnavan wrote: »
    The important word there is local I support shels, and I live in Navan, if you are going to restrict fans to local's its no wonder the crowds are so small. Define Local, walking distance? Most of these teams fans have no Local alligence, no more then I have an alligence to liverpool, I have never even been in the city. The whole point of the suggestion is to generate local interest.

    I've just got so used to posting the word "local" on this forum it's a habit. I mean local in the terms of an Irish club.

    And define walking distance? It takes me up to an hour on a Friday evening (Friday afternoon if we're playing away) to get to Tolka, I could walk it but prefer to get the bus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,154 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    Longford are my local club and I drive 40 miles each way :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    DesF wrote: »
    Ah, this old chestnut.

    Let me tell you this.

    Back in the heyday of the LoI, when you couldn't get into Tolka Park, Dalyer or Milltown to see a game there were the same amount of teams in Dublin.

    Rovers, Bohs, Drums, Pat's and Shels.

    Dublin had a smaller population back then.

    So that argument holds no water.

    Well done for trying though.

    I've no problem with the league continuing in its current guise, however, at the moment the league is pissing away cash paying players too much money who aren't worth it. Aside from a couple of successes e.g Doyle, the clubs reap little reward for chasing the dream and developing players back from England. If the league continues money should be plowed into youth systems to develop young players, not 29 year olds with little prospects of competing for Ireland or getting their club to Europe.

    To discount the OP, is ludicrous imo. A 32 county league is obviously a pipe dream with little chance of financial viability. However, people are deluded if they think that Irish clubs can compete in Europe currently. DesF back in the day there was little football on our screens and to go to a game abroad was a non runner. This is completely changed now. The Shels game against DLC in the Champions League shows the support Irish clubs can get if there is a good product there. The fact is there are too many clubs in Dublin. In Manchester there are two clubs operating at a good standard. They have a larger population in Dublin yet we have UCD, SPA, Shels, Bohs, SR and the proposed Finglas team chasing a very small population. Do people believe in the current climate this can operate on the international stage well? There are no competitions which could gain widespread public intrest apart from maybe the Setanta Cup which isn't even on terrestrial television.

    Clubs can continue with their small fanbase and rivalries if they wish, but I think its an utter waste of cash in the long term for any investor looking for a profit or even prestige.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    themont85 wrote: »

    Clubs can continue with their small fanbase and rivalries if they wish, but I think its an utter waste of cash in the long term for any investor looking for a profit or even prestige.

    20 years ago English football was banned from Europe, facing the prospect of their international side being banned too, with dwindling crowds in decrepit stadia.

    At the same time non-old firm Scottish sides were in European finals.

    Things change.

    The LoI is on an upswing. We will see how far that goes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    DesF wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Every time someone has another idea about how to improve the national league, I ask this question.

    What happens to Shelbourne, Bohemians, Shamrock Rovers, Dundalk...etc...ect?

    Teams with hundreds of years of history between them.

    What supporter of these teams will support these new teams?

    You expect me to support this new "Dublin United" club? Get a grip. I'd never stand shoulder to shoulder with someone I hated last season, a Rovers fan, a Bohs fan, a Pat's junkie. No chance, that's what ya got, no chance in hell.

    Dublin City tried to tap into this very market. Sky Blue and Navy jersies, the whole lot. They lasted about six years and folded in the middle of the 2005 season.

    Kilkenny City dropped out of the league last week.

    No, this idea is retarded in the extreme.

    I understand you Des, but take Galway United for example.

    Our nearest derby day rivals are Athlone and Sligo. They're feckin miles away.

    But now if we were to play Mayo in a Connacht Final, now that'd be exciting. There's little local rivalry outside of Dublin and rivalry is what brings numbers to games, as well as good football.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    20 years ago English football was banned from Europe, facing the prospect of their international side being banned too, with dwindling crowds in decrepit stadia.

    At the same time non-old firm Scottish sides were in European finals.

    Things change.

    The LoI is on an upswing. We will see how far that goes.

    Scotland doesn't have the GAA taking many potential players away from soccer. There is not enough finance for this, back then the money pumped in was nowhere near the level now with the increased TV. Despite the fact that investors can make a little profit with a lot of luck and investment this will only be short term and bad for clubs in the long term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭shane86


    DesF wrote: »
    Ah, this old chestnut.

    Let me tell you this.

    Back in the heyday of the LoI, when you couldn't get into Tolka Park, Dalyer or Milltown to see a game there were the same amount of teams in Dublin.

    Rovers, Bohs, Drums, Pat's and Shels.

    Dublin had a smaller population back then.

    So that argument holds no water.

    Well done for trying though.

    Back then there was less football on tv.

    Back then, although there were a certain amount of non English players on English teams, generally players were from the surrounding area. I remember reading some stat along the lines of every player in 1967 Celtics win was from within 20 miles of Celtic Park. So there was less poaching. Yes, the George Bests got taken but Id assume there was a greater amt of talent left here.
    Glasgow and sattelite towns? 8?

    .

    A related point. Plenty of Scots from areas that Glasgow has stretched into have allegiance to one old frim team and the one in the town.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    themont85 wrote: »
    Scotland doesn't have the GAA taking many potential players away from soccer. There is not enough finance for this, back then the money pumped in was nowhere near the level now with the increased TV. Despite the fact that investors can make a little profit with a lot of luck and investment this will only be short term and bad for clubs in the long term.

    I dont know when the last time a highly regarded footballer was lost to the darkness of the GAA. If anything its all one way traffic from the Gaaliban to civilised games. Its within my lifetime that Rovers and Shels got more to games than the Dubs did. As we see over the Tallaght stadium, its them running scared, in Dublin at least.

    But my substantive point stands. I'm not suggesting that the LoI will ever have the money the EPL has, but Sweden is a realistic model to follow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    I meant scotland doesn't have 4 team sports chasing players and supporters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    themont85 wrote: »
    I meant scotland doesn't have 4 team sports chasing players and supporters.

    nor does Ireland, especially on the playing side.

    the simple fact is football and rugby do not lose players to the Gah. its all the other way round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,985 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    kraggy wrote: »

    Our nearest derby day rivals are Athlone and Sligo. They're feckin miles away.

    What's the furthest derby for Galway Utd; Cobh, Derry or Drogheda? Then compare that to the furthest away trip in England or South America, there's none.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    What's the furthest derby for Galway Utd; Cobh, Derry or Drogheda? Then compare that to the furthest away trip in England or South America, there's none.

    Furthest derby Cobh, Drogheda?!

    Presume you mean match?

    My point is that instead of Athlone or Sligo being closest rivals, an inter-county league would give us Mayo to the north, Clare right below us and rosommon and tipp too.

    Mightn't work but the OP was only throwing something out there for discussion so I don't see why people are having a go at him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,985 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    kraggy wrote: »

    My point is that instead of Athlone or Sligo being closest rivals, an inter-county league would give us Mayo to the north, Clare right below us and rosommon and tipp too.

    And what makes you think these teams could stay in the league for more than a season. Limerick 37 were set up after the fold of Limerick FC last year, started with a clean sheet and yet they've run into money problems nearly folding after a year, and they would have if this didn't happen http://www.eircomloi.ie:82/news-centre/news/news-147/index.xml

    Like Limerick is one of the biggest cities in Ireland and they can't keep a football team going for one season, why do you think a team in the counties you mentioned would?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    No To The Gah-isation Of The Beautiful Game.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Rivalry.

    Which is one of the many reasons I'm in favour of an All-Ireland League. There would be a certain north-south tension which would increase gate receipts/interest and thus increase the standard of the game.

    Could you imagine Dublin v Kerry or Cork v Kerry or Galway v Mayo? The rivalry would present an automatic increase in gates for existing sides, instil interest in counties with no team at the moment and give the game widespread coverage all round.

    I'm not saying it would definitely be a good idea, but one worth discussing, even as a hypothetical conversation like you'd have with your pals down the pub. :)


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