Plenary Indulgences

panda100

I have long been a fan of Lourdes.I am no longer a religous person but the peace,calm and love you feel in that small town in France is like no where else on earth.
However,looking on the website recently I came across this:
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=55146

Basically If you make a visit to Lourdes this year before Dec 8th,as decreed by the pope, you get granted a plenary indulgence.
This sounds like some sleazy Budget Travel offer to me. What happens If you cant book a flight till Dec 10th will you still be absolved of all your sins? And what of those who cant afford a trip away to Sunny France does this make them more of sinners that a person who can?

Anyway the idea of plenary indulgences is something I never have quite understood. What exactly is a plenary indulgence?I am under the impression It speedways you through purgatory but Im not quite sure?
Also who grants the plenary indulgences?Is it just the pope?

Thanks

Akrasia

I thought any priest could absolve you of all your sins if you went to confession and were truly sorry and asked for forgiveness?

Akrasia

Maybe Pope Benny was jealous after watching millions of devout muslims at the Hajj pilgrimage and though 'we can do better than that'

Dave!

panda100 wrote: »

I have long been a fan of Lourdes.I am no longer a religous person but the peace,calm and love you feel in that small town in France is like no where else on earth.

Woah... you were proper religious just a few months ago! :eek: That's quite a change. Mind me asking why? Ya don't have to answer obviously

panda100

DaveMcG wrote: »

Woah... you were proper religious just a few months ago! :eek: That's quite a change. Mind me asking why? Ya don't have to answer obviously

Sorry for of topic posting:

Ive always had doubts about my religon and always been more spiritual then religous.I tried very hard to turn my religon into something deeper by going on various pilgrimages,prayer meetings etc but I never felt like my religon was deep with me,it was always just superfical. Its only since I started reading books such as the God Delusion and doing a bit of resarch that I realised that my religon generates more hate than love. I never do anything half heartedly and felt I was becoming a pix and mix Catholic. I dont believe that homosexuality is wrong, I dont believe in purgotary, I dont believe in many of the saints (mother teresa?A saint?), I dont believe I was born with original sin,I dont believe that a host turns into Jesus body.
I realised that having gone to a convent school all my life and being from a very religous family Ive never had a chance to hear another side to the story or challenge my doubts.


Saying all that I still very much believe that there is a greater presence/being out there somewhere
I also am still very much intrested in Catholic teachings and would like to know more about plenary indulgences?

Dave!

Thanks panda, interesting post!

Anyways, plenary indulgences............ ¬_¬

kelly1

panda100 wrote: »

I have long been a fan of Lourdes.I am no longer a religous person but the peace,calm and love you feel in that small town in France is like no where else on earth.

Hello Panda, I love Lourdes. I owe my conversion to a trip to Lourdes.

panda100 wrote: »

However,looking on the website recently I came across this:
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=55146

Basically If you make a visit to Lourdes this year before Dec 8th,as decreed by the pope, you get granted a plenary indulgence.
This sounds like some sleazy Budget Travel offer to me. What happens If you cant book a flight till Dec 10th will you still be absolved of all your sins? And what of those who cant afford a trip away to Sunny France does this make them more of sinners that a person who can?

I don't think God would worry over your being a couple of days late

panda100 wrote: »

Anyway the idea of plenary indulgences is something I never have quite understood. What exactly is a plenary indulgence? I am under the impression It speedways you through purgatory but Im not quite sure?
Also who grants the plenary indulgences?Is it just the pope?

A plenary indulgence means that if you were to die following the granting of a plenary indulgence you would suffer no temporal punishment and go straight to Heaven bypassing Purgatory. The pope has the power to grant indulgences based on the scriptural doctrine of Peter having the keys to the Kingdom and the power to loose and bind on earth.

God bless,
Noel.

Dave!

Panda you might also be interested in reading about the controversy surrounding the sale of indulgences, and how it played a significant part in the start of the Reformation. Dunno if you did/do history in college, but those who do (me!) have to do a course on the Reformation, and study Martin Luther.

kelly1

panda100 wrote: »

Ive always had doubts about my religon and always been more spiritual then religous.I tried very hard to turn my religon into something deeper by going on various pilgrimages,prayer meetings etc but I never felt like my religon was deep with me,it was always just superfical.

May I ask Panda if you pray very much? And if you do, have you tried any forms of mental prayer e.g. Lectio Divina?

panda100 wrote: »

Its only since I started reading books such as the God Delusion and doing a bit of resarch that I realised that my religon generates more hate than love.

Seriously, I would would suggest you use that book to light a fire! I'm not joking!

panda100 wrote: »

I never do anything half heartedly and felt I was becoming a pix and mix Catholic. I dont believe that homosexuality is wrong, I dont believe in purgotary, I dont believe in many of the saints (mother teresa?A saint?), I dont believe I was born with original sin,I dont believe that a host turns into Jesus body.

You opinion is not unusual and I used to have similar beliefs. It's important to know how God wants us to live and that God has laws. What God wants from us has been revealed by Jesus and His Church. Scripture for example clearly teaches that homosexual acts are wrong. The world, under the influence of the devil, teaches that homosexuality is perfectly normal!

One thing I've realized over the years is that the world and God are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum and it's vital to cling to Christ in all we do and ignore what the world tells us.

God bless,
Noel.

philologos

I'd argue against indulgences, they are really a waste of time basing it on scripture in my view of it anyway:

Acts 8:18-20 wrote:

Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, "Give me also this power so that anyone on whom I lay my hand may recieve the Holy Spirit." But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with this money".

I don't think the Pope or any mortal man has the authority to give what is the gift of the Lord to others, especially in this circumstance.

kelly1

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't think the Pope or any mortal man has the authority to give what is the gift of the Lord to others, especially in this circumstance.

Didn't Jesus give the apostles the power to forgive sins in John 20:23?

robindch

panda100 wrote: »

Its only since I started reading books such as the God Delusion and doing a bit of resarch that I realised that my religon generates more hate than love.

Out of interest, was there anything in particular from the book that stands out in your mind as a kind of "Oh, I didn't know *that*", anything at all that caused an epiphany, if I can use that word. Or was it the cumulative effect of the overall book?

philologos

kelly1 wrote: »

Didn't Jesus give the apostles the power to forgive sins in John 20:23?

Yes the Apostles. Does this mention a future legacy of a Pope who is above all other men. No, Jesus said that the greatest will serve eachother as equals to the disciples. I see the leadership of my church, even the Archbishop of Canterbury to be just men, like me and you who have been compelled to teach it to the world.

Forgiveness of sins, comes through God and God alone. Is there a circumstance of the Apostles forgiving sin in the Bible? Peter in a later excerpt of that passage I gave tells the man to pray to God Himself.

kelly1

Jakkass wrote: »

Is there a circumstance of the Apostles forgiving sin in the Bible?

James 5:14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.

This passage refers to the sacrament of extreme unction/last rites.