M50 upgrade N3 interchange schedule

ciaran75

Hi,

Does anyone know when phase 2 of the M50 upgrade is scheduled to begin, in particular the N3 junction.

Cheers,

jmkennedyie

I don't know of N3 specifics, but I understand phase 2 is planned for after phase 1 & 3 - which implies sometime after August (last completion date I heard).

I guess this way they avoid the entire M50 stretch from M1 to Sandyford being 60 km/h.

www.nra.ie says Phase 2 is at Tender but provisional winner was announced last March. http://www.nra.ie/News/NewsAnnouncements/htmltext,5663,en.html

Ice_Box

There are loads of cones around the N2 finglas exit, maybe thats next.

whosedaddy?

I noticed the cones too. They have started pulling those little embedded refelctive road studs out. the cones are marking them. I'm sure that is only some prep work, not indicative of an immedeate start of the main work.

Stark

jmkennedyie wrote: »

www.nra.ie says Phase 2 is at Tender but provisional winner was announced last March. http://www.nra.ie/News/NewsAnnouncements/htmltext,5663,en.html

Looks like it's now official: http://www.lovells.com/Lovells/MediaCentre/PressReleases/Lovells+advises+on+%E2%82%AC290+million+Irish+motorway+PPP.htm

darkman2

AFAIK phase 2 is to start immediately with completion due in '2010' - believe it or not. The design and build contract has been awarded - with a total value 900 million Euros. I think those works atm are most certainly preparatory works. Remember they have to take the trees and hedges and all from the Interchanges and verges too - especially the M1.

Stark

But where will the gypsies and beggars live?

Ice_Box

I've seen signs up for
http://www.m50concession.ie/
still under construction sadly

darkman2

How long has that site been up? - cause the signs have been up a pretty long time.

Bluetonic

Both look interesting.

Not sure if these were the final spec but they won't be far off.

Chris_533976

I think the N3 one got a few changes, but I'm not 100% sure on what.

rameire

i think the m50 n3 junction looks brill, and regarding the n2 junction, a few buildings have popped up that might interfer with the layout given in the pic above, and will still have a good few lights to control traffic

Navan Junction

The N3 one does look great. Inbound traffic on the N3 was gridlocked the night before last because of the interchange and the M50. The freeflow element of this should work wonders. It's daft the way non-m50 traffic heading to the City centre has been hostage to the M50 for so long

SeaSide

Navan Junction wrote: »

The N3 one does look great. Inbound traffic on the N3 was gridlocked the night before last because of the interchange and the M50. The freeflow element of this should work wonders. It's daft the way non-m50 traffic heading to the City centre has been hostage to the M50 for so long

I this not a deliberate way of filtering the traffic into the city centre?

Stimpyone

Does anybody know if the M1/M50 junction will be upgraded?, can't seem to find any info on it.

murphaph

Stimpyone wrote: »

Does anybody know if the M1/M50 junction will be upgraded?, can't seem to find any info on it.

It will be full freeflow M1<->M50 all movements. N32 movements may still have some signal control as they will still make use of the existing roundabout. Not sure yet.

jmkennedyie

As per Irish Independant today the M50 Phase 2 starts next week. Two weeks first for traffic managment etc. No mention of when/where reduced speed limits apply. I guess they'll focus on tree clearing quickly - nesting season coming up soon.

Edit: Re M50/M1 Interchange, see this thread on archiseek for a diagram as of a few years ago: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4209

triple-M

heres some pics of proposed upgraded M1 N2 N3 junctions,enjoy

triple-M

something that i noticed in this pic of the proposed layout of m50-n3 interchange is that there will be no access to the m50 south for local traffic coming from blanch village unless they were to go through the roundabout and then U-turn at the auburn avenue junction which would probaly prove annoying and messy,does anyone know if this problem has been solved??? or will we have to wait until its built before the contractor realises it ???:eek:

darkman2

triple-M wrote: »

heres some pics of proposed upgraded M1 N2 N3 junctions,enjoy

Yes great images there. I thought I recognised my desktop! Just curious as to were you found them? Their mine but I dont remember uploading them.......spooky:p:)

Alun

triple-M wrote: »

heres some pics of proposed upgraded M1 N2 N3 junctions,enjoy

Love the picture of the "new M50 afterwards" ... lane 1 empty, lane 2 a few cars, lane 3 chock a block Plus ca change, and all that

Chris_533976

Just having a very quick look at the pics suggests to me that the M1 and N3 interchanges can be almost completly done offline, with the N2 being the awkward sod.

triple-M

really???:eek: someone sent them to me not too long ago,i assumed they were his.but i was obviously mistaken,great pics tho:D i'll ask him where he got them from,k

triple-M

AFAIK the m50 afterwards pic is from if u were heading northbound what the approach to the n3 interchange would look like

steyr fan

Will the Auburn Ave / N3 junction be 'signal controlled'? Like Ballymount? ohoh:eek:

darkman2

triple-M wrote: »

really???:eek: someone sent them to me not too long ago,i assumed they were his.but i was obviously mistaken,great pics tho:D i'll ask him where he got them from,k

meh I probrably did upload them somewhere - There are plenty of those images on the big environmental impact statement btw - thats why I cut them - the files are huge.


The new N3 looks quite a slick design getting rid of the roundabout on the N3 too. Dont think it will be done by 2010 though even if they are starting on Monday.

murphaph

steyr fan wrote: »

Will the Auburn Ave / N3 junction be 'signal controlled'? Like Ballymount? ohoh:eek:

Sure it's a signal controlled roundabout as it stands. I presume they'll have fully adaptive (scoot/mova or somesuch) system to make sure N3 inbound is always cleared if it starts to back up onto the M50 junction.

The absolutely disastrous lack of planning which allowed Total Fitness etc. to be built in the corners of our junctions thus necessitating ridiculously complex solutions as evidenced at the N3. It's a testament to the project engineers that they have managed to keep the others so tidy in fact!

triple-M

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Just having a very quick look at the pics suggests to me that the M1 and N3 interchanges can be almost completly done offline, with the N2 being the awkward sod.

the pic must be quite old tho because the new N2 is still only proposed in it,so the design might have hopefully been changed in the meantime;)

triple-M

murphaph wrote: »

The absolutely disastrous lack of planning which allowed Total Fitness etc. to be built in the corners of our junctions thus necessitating ridiculously complex solutions as evidenced at the N3. It's a testament to the project engineers that they have managed to keep the others so tidy in fact!

Amen to that just look at the N2 proposed junction,its still gonna b a mess,pity this wasnt like sim city where if anything was in your way you could just demolish it:D:D:D

darkman2

We should know the exact designs soon enough - assuming they start the website shortly.

Chris_533976

triple-M wrote: »

Amen to that just look at the N2 proposed junction,its still gonna b a mess,pity this wasnt like sim city where if anything was in your way you could just demolish it:D:D:D

Yeah I knocked down a disease research centre and a large hospital to carve an elevated highway through the centre of town

murphaph

darkman2 wrote: »

We should know the exact designs soon enough - assuming they start the website shortly.

Why so confident? Up until recently (maybe still) the design of the N7/M50 interchange remained a mystery on m50.ie! It just said "in design" even though construction was well advanced!

darkman2

murphaph wrote: »

Why so confident? Up until recently (maybe still) the design of the N7/M50 interchange remained a mystery on m50.ie! It just said "in design" even though construction was well advanced!

Yeah but I think the consortium will be running this website


www.M50concession.ie - Im assuming that will be the site. So maybe not as slow with the details.

Its a design and build contract so Im expecting some changes. They also dont seem to be saying 'partial' freeflow anymore - just 'freeflow'.

triple-M

surely they could of used a different design in the n3-m50 junction with the available space,i live near blanch village and my only way to get on the M50-south now will be to go back to the shoppin centre and join the N3 at chocker blocked tractamotors,are there any examples of similar junctions anywhere in the world!:eek::eek::eek:

Navan Junction

SeaSide wrote: »

I this not a deliberate way of filtering the traffic into the city centre?

Can't see how - most N3 users have no choice but to go through there

Aard

Triple-M:
My advice is to join at junction 7 and avoid the toll! Seriously though, I don't know why they cut the southbound M50 ramp off the roundabout. Surely it wouldn't have been too difficult to integrate it with the proposed scheme. I think I saw somewhere online (South Dublin CoCo site iirc) that the turn you're describing will have to be a U-Turn at the junction closer to the City Centre (Auburn Ave?).

D.L.R.

The M1 junction looks great, but the others lack key freeflow movements. That at-grade roundabout on the new N3 junction looks like its gonna cause trouble. Whats the bets these won't be the final spec?

darkman2

I actually think the M1 is probrably the best interchange of the lot of them. Whilst not the biggest or most complex it deals neatly with the nessacary freeflow movements. It would be desirable to just take the roundabout out completely but im happy with the design for now.




I read a highly appropriate article in a British roads magazine a few months back which really laid into the M50 design before the upgrade (and rightly so) - describing the interchanges as a 'stupid British style 1950's, ugly, inefficient' roundabout design. Im sure when the upgrade is over we will realise what total corrupt muppets the previous designer or politicians were.

murphaph

darkman2 wrote: »

I read a highly appropriate article in a British roads magazine a few months back which really laid into the M50 design before the upgrade (and rightly so) - describing the interchanges as a 'stupid British style 1950's, ugly, inefficient' roundabout design. Im sure when the upgrade is over we will realise what total corrupt muppets the previous designer or politicians were.

To be honest the economy was still in the toilet at the time the M50 was designed. I can maybe forgive the shortcomings in it however I cannot forgive shortcomings in any junction built today or in the last 10 years (of which there are many).

Stark

I'd like to see what adjectives they'd use to describe the new Ballymount.

ardmacha

I cannot forgive shortcomings in any junction built today or in the last 10 years

When was the M1/M50 junction opened? For sure it was quite a while after the Mad Cow and its limitations were known. It is all very fine to say that it and the likes of the airport M1 junction were designed some years before, but in the current upgrade the designs have been changed quite close to construction and the M1/M50 junction should have been changed in the light of experience at the Mad Cow and N4.

AlekSmart

As Stark points out,some of the most recent stuff has all of the hallmarks of the worst of what went before .....Particularly Ballymount/Belgard !

However on the bigger issue of known shortcomings and general good principles its never going to be recognised as a worthwhile aspect because we do not do ACCOUNTABILITY in any way,shape or form and that goes for every aspect of our administrative framework.

Modern Ireland works on the general principle that in any given foul-up,the greatest effort must be put into identifying and pursuing the lowest-grade individual who can be made to fit the frame,the hewer of wood and drawer of water rather than even suggesting that a senior personage could EVER be responsible for anything....:)

It should be noted that we currently have several serving Government Ministers who are RESPONSIBLE for vast amounts of wasted expenditure and who have not had to suffer ANY reprimand or reduction in the ranks...especially one which would effect their "Oul Pinsìn" :eek:

The ongoing M50 saga merely reflects the Irish ethos in these matters......

Aard

@DLR: I think the N3/M50 junction is a good compromise, considering the limitations that were there. The roundabout will be handling much less traffic than before, and -while not the perfect solution- should make traversing the interchange far quicker than it takes now.


I agree that the M50/M1 is nice and neat. However I think that the entire stretch from that junction to the airport junction on the M1 (along with that tiny spur heading towards the airport) should have been upgraded in the plan. The two junctions are close together, and I'm sure there's a lot of weaving going on there - I think there should be a couple of collector/distributor roads (is that what they're called?) running parallel to it to cut out weaving entirely and make a real headstart on the whole 'freeflow' idea. Otherwise you're just sending faster traffic into a mess of weaving - faster traffic, more likely an accident will result.

Carawaystick

The Airport stub motorway/ M1 junction has to be mentioned here. It's well less than 10 years old yet has no freeflow airport -> M1N, for start. It could have been built freeflow with only one bridge over hte mainline in a trumpet style junction.

Fingal CO.CO said it was built as it was to allow motorists do a U-turn to get from M1S to M1N; the mind boggles.

murphaph

Carawaystick wrote: »

Fingal CO.CO said it was built as it was to allow motorists do a U-turn to get from M1S to M1N; the mind boggles.

....whereas the real reason is to allow future development to the east of the M1 and provide direct access to the motorway-not possible with a simple trumpet (which as you point out would be an ideal and cheaper solution at this location).

ardmacha

They could have built a half freeflow junction and if development needed direct access to the motorway (why should it) then they could pay for the additional work on the junction.

But the existing flyovers have a profile supposed to be inspired by an aircraft wing. Who cares whether they are in a dysfunctional arrangement,