Irish people unwittingly buying uk write off's

niceirishfella

From BreakingNews.ie -

A large number of Irish motorists are unwittingly driving cars that have been written off in Britain, according to the Cartell website.

The company says it has carried out a study of 4,479 vehicles previously registered in the UK which were imported into Ireland between 2001 and 2005.

It says 320 of them had been classed as write-offs in Britain before being repaired and resold in Ireland.

Cartell claims up to 23,000 vehicles currently operating on Irish roads may have been written off in the UK.

I'm going to be really cynical here and guess that cartell are slightly misleading people to pimp their business.

There is more than one type of insurance write off in the UK.

From here

Category A - the entire vehicle must be crushed.

Category B - the vehicle may be broken for parts but it must never be returned to the road.

Category C - possible structural damage but the vehicle is repairable. The cost of the damage would have been more than the book value of the car if that repairs were carried out at garage prices and official manufacturers parts.

Category D - most likely to be nonstructural damage and should be relatively easily repairable. In this case the vehicle may have been economical to repair but for other reasons it was written off. For example where the insurer have to provide a courtesy car the time taken to repair the vehicle would mean that the courtesy car cost together with the repair cost would be excessive. In a category D scenario it is more likely that the insurer did not wish to repair.

Category X - this is minor damage and easily repairable.

They don't mention what type of write offs were imported. Category C and above may be returned to the road legally once the proper repairs are made. Once the repairs are done to a high standard there is nothing wrobng with this.

Biro

Hardly surprising, everyone seems to be going over buying there, probably thinking they're an expert. Also I reckon people are buying the cheapest one of a particular model then bringing it back here to make maximum profit on it.

voxpop

Heard a similar story a few months ago - seems like scaremongering to me. Once the proper check are done (HPI, etc) there is nothing to worry about when buying an imported car

Biro

voxpop wrote: »

Heard a similar story a few months ago - seems like scaremongering to me. Once the proper check are done (HPI, etc) there is nothing to worry about when buying an imported car

That's a bit naieve in my opinion. If you're relying on HPI then you're taking a risk. Cars can be extensively damaged and not reported, therefore how would the DVLA or anyone know anything about it? Therefore it wouldn't come up on a HPI check, so you could be buying a piece of crap unwittingly. You need to get it mechanically checked. I doubt all the buyers are doing this. I also doubt all people who are buying to sell for a profit are buying the cream of the crop.

Alun

What safeguards are in place here when a write-off is repaired and returned to the market? I know that in the UK anyone who repairs a write-off has to get it officially inspected first before it's allowed back on the roads, and that it's made clear in the documents that it's a repaired write-off so there can be no doubts as to it's history. But what if someone just buys a wreck in the UK, brings it here, repairs it and then puts it on the market? Is all evidence of it's previous life erased? And is there any obligation on the repairer to get it safety inspected first?

voxpop

@Biro
Yes - once the proper check are done - not just HPI.

As for the guys buying to sell on for profit - its down to the individual whos buying the car to drive it (if you get my meaning) to do the checks themselves. I wouldnt trust a car dealer, whether it be forecourt or back street, as far as I could throw them.

It BeeMee

ronoc wrote: »

They don't mention what type of write offs were imported. Category C and above may be returned to the road legally once the proper repairs are made. Once the repairs are done to a high standard there is nothing wrobng with this.

Irish Times article here


Mostly C and D write-offs, but 12 were category B, which means they should never be on the road again.

Also:

Twenty vehicles, including five tractors, four vans, a BMW 7-series and a 4.6-litre Cadillac, had been listed as "scrapped" on the records of the UK vehicle licensing authority, the Driver Vehicle Licensing
Authority, according to HPI UK

MuffinsDa

usual scaremongering by Irish businesses.
A simple £5-£25 check can tell you whether the vehicle was involved in an accident or not!
It's like Irish Dentists: the quality of work done in belfast is far inferior to Ireland (yeah right!!!!)

NBar

I think what it is is a lot of so called car dealers are bringing in these cars and fixing them up and registering them and people are buying what they think are so called straight cars

MuffinsDa

ok, obviously if in any doubt you'll need to get a mechanic to check it as well.
How hard is it to find out whether a vehicle is repaired or not? What are the tell-tale signs? Would an experienced mechanic be able to spot it? If you get it inspected by one of those pro inspection guys would you be guaranteed that it's spotted?

kyote00

If the crashes/damages are not reported to the DVLA then they wont be in the cartell data either...so the figures cartell are pushed must be cars that have some data recorded about them.

Both the AA and RAC full vehicle inspection will remove any doubt about whether a car has been crashed...

Biro wrote: »

That's a bit naieve in my opinion. If you're relying on HPI then you're taking a risk. Cars can be extensively damaged and not reported, therefore how would the DVLA or anyone know anything about it? Therefore it wouldn't come up on a HPI check, so you could be buying a piece of crap unwittingly. You need to get it mechanically checked. I doubt all the buyers are doing this. I also doubt all people who are buying to sell for a profit are buying the cream of the crop.

RobAMerc

it would be very silly to NOT check a car thats come in from the UK for it being registered there as a write off.

While you might not care it was a CAT D the next prospective owners may very well care.

Buying from an Irish dealer does not make you immune to this, they get caught out too, regularly!

cashmni1

voxpop wrote: »

@Biro
Yes - once the proper check are done - not just HPI.

As for the guys buying to sell on for profit - its down to the individual whos buying the car to drive it (if you get my meaning) to do the checks themselves. I wouldnt trust a car dealer, whether it be forecourt or back street, as far as I could throw them.

The main problem here are the dealers who bring in the cars for profit. (why elce I hear you say?). I understand, and do firmly believe that not all dealers are "shady" or should I say "dodgy". But they are not all straight either. One guy from Galway springs to mind who tried to sell me a clocked Passat TDI.
The core of their buisness is selling cars. If you can get cars from the UK, cheaper than here and sell them for more of a profit, well fair dues I say. I went to the UK this year and bought one myself. Very happy and no regrets. It was however, a private sale and I was well aware of the pitfalls with such a purchase.
The risk that I ran was this:
The car could have been crashed, money owed on it, car could have been clocked, car could have had a mojor part about to expire and I was taking it out of the country with no real comeback to the seller.

As VOXPOP mentioned it is up to the buyer to get the correct checks done. This includes HPI and an AA inspection. This means something. It is not just a case of an idiot going and buying the first thing that looks nice. Then yes that is how people are cought. Research your car and you don't know what to look for. If you dont' know what to look for, bring someone who does. Do the correct checks and all should be fine. Dealer or not. In fact buying from a dealer in the UK would give some people the element of security knowing that the dealer will stand over the car for 12 months.
Anyway, you will always have people (not necessarily car dealers) who will try to profit at someones misfortune. Be careful and do the checks.

Biro

Does Cartell give the previous reg of a UK import or does it just list that it was imported from UK on such a date?
Also, is any history transferred from HPI to cartell? Anyone with any experience of this?

Biro

cashmni1 wrote: »

The main problem here are the dealers who bring in the cars for profit. (why elce I hear you say?). I understand, and do firmly believe that not all dealers are "shady" or should I say "dodgy". But they are not all straight either. One guy from Galway springs to mind who tried to sell me a clocked Passat TDI.
The core of their buisness is selling cars. If you can get cars from the UK, cheaper than here and sell them for more of a profit, well fair dues I say. I went to the UK this year and bought one myself. Very happy and no regrets. It was however, a private sale and I was well aware of the pitfalls with such a purchase.
The risk that I ran was this:
The car could have been crashed, money owed on it, car could have been clocked, car could have had a mojor part about to expire and I was taking it out of the country with no real comeback to the seller.

As VOXPOP mentioned it is up to the buyer to get the correct checks done. This includes HPI and an AA inspection. This means something. It is not just a case of an idiot going and buying the first thing that looks nice. Then yes that is how people are cought. Research your car and you don't know what to look for. If you dont' know what to look for, bring someone who does. Do the correct checks and all should be fine. Dealer or not. In fact buying from a dealer in the UK would give some people the element of security knowing that the dealer will stand over the car for 12 months.
Anyway, you will always have people (not necessarily car dealers) who will try to profit at someones misfortune. Be careful and do the checks.

Words of wisdom. Paper trail is as important as mechanical trail really.
Clocked cars is becoming a big problem.

Seth Brundle

Biro wrote: »

Words of wisdom. Paper trail is as important as mechanical trail really.
Clocked cars is becoming a big problem.

I don't think that its becoming a problem. I think the issue was always there but nowadays a little more notice is being taken.

voxpop

Biro wrote: »

Does Cartell give the previous reg of a UK import or does it just list that it was imported from UK on such a date?
Also, is any history transferred from HPI to cartell? Anyone with any experience of this?

Cartell give previous uk reg. You can this use HPI to check the UK history. History isnt transferred as far as I remember

RobAMerc

an irish car check company recently rang a friend of mine and advised that the car they did a check on had been written off in the uk! - fair play I reckon saved my buddy do the hpi check

Tipsy Mac

NBar wrote: »

I think what it is is a lot of so called car dealers are bringing in these cars and fixing them up and registering them and people are buying what they think are so called straight cars

This is exactly where the problem is. The reason they get away with it is some people are idiots and part with their cash without doing any checks whatsoever on the car or it's history, these people deserve to be ripped off.

ninty9er

cashmni1 wrote: »

money owed on it,

I'd love to see a UK finance house try to recover a car that had been re registered here, my guess is that if the buyer of said vehicle was determined enough that finance house would end up with a hefty High Court invoice, plus the cost of registering as a legal entity in the state!

Churchy

Just need to look at the amount of "wise guys" posting topics regarding trying to avoid paying full vrt for importing a write-off to know thats its a problem.

Not always dealers faults you know ^^.

kyote00

its also worth bearing in mind that Cartell are a business and this 'press release' is as much about pimping their own website as it is about protecting the irish car buyer ....

10/10 for their PR/marketing people.... a bit like yer man from the AA --- two flies crawl up a wall and he on the radio with a comment from the AA....

galwaytt

A few things come to mind.....

1. A damaged car does not HAVE to be recorded, anywhere. Indeed, if you look, you will regularly see damaged cars for sale in the motoring press which explicitly tell you it is NOT recorded. It will not, therefore, turn up in any search, anywhere......NOT showing up on HPI doesn't guarantee you anything.
2. Most warranties offered by UK dealers are third-party warranties, and are neither transferrable nor extended to cars shipped out of the UK. Indeed, I know that some UK garages sell you the warranty, and then never buy the policy, knowing that you can't claim off it anyway, and that they can then just pocket the 300-500 premium. Far better to bargain first, then tell them to deduct the 500 warranty from the final, offered price....;)
3. Get the car physically checked by the RAC/AA. However, be aware that an inspection is not a guarantee. And even their checks can be wrong. I once had a Renault inspected, and they informed me that the car was a CAT A write off, previously, on paper. The physical inspection showed no evidence of any repairs, and that it's condition was as per the seller's description. I challenged the owner on this, and it turns out the the reg no on HPI did not tally with the VIN of the vehicle. The VIN of the vehicle I got checked via Renault, and it was correct, so HPI was wrong. It turned out in the end that the CAT A they had on file was a Clio................not a Scenic. The RAC could do nothing to correct the situation, but I got HPI to fix it in the end......
   
   Moral of the story?....there are no guarantees of anything, anywhere, and sometimes there is no safety net........

niceirishfella

voxpop wrote: »

Heard a similar story a few months ago - seems like scaremongering to me. Once the proper check are done (HPI, etc) there is nothing to worry about when buying an imported car

I agree.........Cartell dont strike me as a service in anyway near as good as HPI in the uk. The Owner of Cartell was on gerry ryan on 2fm there one morning talking a lot of bollix about cars out there for sale being ex-taxis and all sorts.
FFS, if you went to see a car and you could'nt spot it was a taxi in a former life, you should'nt be on your own buying a car. Scaremongering, thats all it is.

cashmni1

galwaytt wrote: »

A few things come to mind.....

1. Most warranties offered by UK dealers are third-party warranties, and are neither transferrable nor extended to cars shipped out of the UK. Indeed, I know that some UK garages sell you the warranty, and then never buy the policy, knowing that you can't claim off it anyway, and that they can then just pocket the 300-500 premium. Far better to bargain first, then tell them to deduct the 500 warranty from the final, offered price....;)
2. 
   
   Moral of the story?....there are no guarantees of anything, anywhere, and sometimes there is no safety net........

This is a good point, and true. But the fact that there is a 12 month warrenty at all, suggests that the dealer knows that it was not a taxi or a member of the demolition derby in a previous life. this ios where you can add value to a warrenty, and yes, take off the value of same when doing the deal.

Biro

niceirishfella wrote: »

FFS, if you went to see a car and you could'nt spot it was a taxi in a former life, you should'nt be on your own buying a car. Scaremongering, thats all it is.

I'd agree with this, but I think the problem is that people are buying cars on their own in the UK as it is. I've never seen so many UK reg'd cars as I have in the last month or so.

TheBigLebowski

Biro wrote: »

I'd agree with this, but I think the problem is that people are buying cars on their own in the UK as it is. I've never seen so many UK reg'd cars as I have in the last month or so.

That's because there is big money to be saved because Irish prices are ridiculously high. There is a simple trade-off between the perceived risks of buying from the UK against the money you will save. However, I don't believe the risks are any higher than buying in Ireland and in many cases, buying in the UK is a safer option. The HPI as far as I can see is a lot more developed and comprehensive than the Irish system particularly around recorded mileage (again, why is the NCT recorded mileage not public information available to cartell etc?). As with any car - Irish, UK or Mongolian, it's buyer beware and as long as you take advantage of all the car checking services available, you should be ok. By taking one day to go to the UK and back, you could save up to 10 grand on a top end car...

Eken27

:cool:

niceirishfella wrote: »

From BreakingNews.ie -

A large number of Irish motorists are unwittingly driving cars that have been written off in Britain, according to the Cartell website.

The company says it has carried out a study of 4,479 vehicles previously registered in the UK which were imported into Ireland between 2001 and 2005.

It says 320 of them had been classed as write-offs in Britain before being repaired and resold in Ireland.

Cartell claims up to 23,000 vehicles currently operating on Irish roads may have been written off in the UK.

Alanstrainor

Please read the forum charter before posting. Dragging up 2+ year old threads is a no no.