Europe is biggest threat - US security chief

Kev_ps3

The US Secretary for Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, has said terrorists from Europe now represent the biggest terrorist and security threat to his country.

Mr Chertoff said it was important to increase checks on travellers from Europe to the US.

He said most people could now enter the US without being screened and he wanted tighter security regulations to be imposed.

Europe? Of all the places in the world, europe is its biggest threat?! I guess it was our turn sometime, since the rest of the world has been demonised at sometime or other.

Jesus Wept

Saw that earlier. I look forward to getting even more hassle from the hired goons when I make trips to America.

Kur4mA

That homeland security clown needs to sort out his own country before he starts putting the threat on others. The U.S is it's own worst threat and enemy. Hey Michael, you might wanna stop making it so easy for kids to get their hands on guns and kill other kids you idiot.

ejmaztec

If they didn't have an enemy, they'd invent one, much like the regime in George Orwell's 1984.

Morlar

I dont think he means europe in the context of say - the french or german governments being a threat.

I think he refers to islamic terrorists living in europe and travelling to the us from europe. Given the 911 terrorists fit that profile this makes sense.

If they were travelling from for example syria or iran they would be subject to more scrutiny than someone travelling from scotland. I actually see his point - the more obvious threats are on the radar but the assumption that someone living in europe supports western liberal democracies is not a safe assumption for them to make from a security point of view. But yes it will be a pain if they increase security again - its already ridiculous. If they think they had to I would have no problem with going along with it. Its their right to be fair.

You Suck!

If they didn't have an enemy, they'd invent one, much like the regime in George Orwell's 1984.

Or if you had mister chertoffs salary, you'd invent enemy's too.

Civil servants.....same the world over. Maybe orwell was making more of a statement about the inevitable clumsy survival of government beauracracys rather then totalitarian regimes

gillyfromlyre

Morlar wrote: »

I dont think he means europe in the context of say - the french or german governments being a threat.

I think he refers to islamic terrorists living in europe and travelling to the us from europe. Given the 911 terrorists fit that profile this makes sense.

If they were travelling from for example syria or iran they would be subject to more scrutiny than someone travelling from scotland. I actually see his point - the more obvious threats are on the radar but the assumption that someone living in europe supports western liberal democracies is not a safe assumption for them to make from a security point of view. But yes it will be a pain if they increase security again - its already ridiculous. If they think they had to I would have no problem with going along with it. Its their right to be fair.

Spot on Morlar, the hubby and I think Europe is way too lax on islamic terrorists, we bend over backwards to accomodate them, let them have their hate marches on the street in London etc, when the yanks see that on tv what can we expect??

That's something I was wondering about actually..

I've been to America recently and had the whole fingerprint and photo thing done. Does that mean I have to do it again each time I enter that country?

Kev_ps3

But surely if you were are terrorist you would use Mexico to get into the US rather than first go to europe and then try to get to into the US.
Personally, I think europe will be demonised in the future by the US media because the threat the euro has over the dollar. From history we know that the neo-cons think of anyone who poses an economic threat to the US is an enemy.

Dragan

I wonder which country they will invade?

We should be pretty safe. No oil or diamonds see.

ScumLord

gillyfromlyre wrote: »

Spot on Morlar, the hubby and I think Europe is way too lax on islamic terrorists, we bend over backwards to accomodate them, let them have their hate marches on the street in London etc, when the yanks see that on tv what can we expect??

Free speach in action. We might not agree but it's they're right to voice they're opinion in peaceful manner.

You can be sure Islamics in the US would be to **** scared of marching in America.

Dragan

Dragan wrote: »

I wonder which country they will invade?

We should be pretty safe. No oil or diamonds see.

Sweden.

Those peace lovin' hippies.

ejmaztec

gillyfromlyre wrote: »

Spot on Morlar, the hubby and I think Europe is way too lax on islamic terrorists, we bend over backwards to accomodate them, let them have their hate marches on the street in London etc, when the yanks see that on tv what can we expect??

Unfortunately, our political correctness is being used against us. We're supposed to be tolerant of everybody and anything and keep our mouths shut, so as not to offend anyone. That would be ok if the whole world was civilised, but it's far from it, especially with 14th Century people having access to 21st Century weapons and technology.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden.

Those peace lovin' hippies.

Na they can defend themselfs, we'd be an easy walkover for them, and it'd give them a good base to attack france.

Dragan

ejmaztec wrote: »

Unfortunately, our political corectness is being used against us. We're supposed to be tolerant of everybody and anything and keep our mouths shut, so as not to offend anyone. That would be ok if the whole world was civilised, but it's far from it, especially with 14th Century people having access to 21st Century weapons and technology.

Happily Freedom of Speech allows me to tell people when i don't want to hear what they are saying.

All this PC bull**** is breeding a generation of pussies to be honest.

Morlar

ScumLord wrote: »

Free speach in action. We might not agree but it's they're right to voice they're opinion in peaceful manner.

Some of those placards said things like 'europe your 911 will come' and 'behead anyone who insults islam' - far as I know some of them were eventually charged with hate speech/incitement to hatred type crimes.

I think mexico is another danger area for them too - which might explain the wall they are looking to build across the mexican border. From their point of view you dont just plug one hole. There has been at least one islamic terrorist caught driving across the canadian border with a car full of explosives. So any weakspot is potentially dangerous. I dont agree there is any connection between any of this to the dollar v euro and I doubt america want to isolate themselves or to alienate europe if they can help it. I think the truth of it is that the neo-cons see europe as 'the old world' and america /asia as the new world.

ScumLord

Morlar wrote: »

Some of those placards said things like 'europe your 911 will come' and 'behead anyone who insults islam' - far as I know some of them were eventually charged with hate speech/incitement to hatred type crimes.

And rightly too, but only some had those placards and of course the cameras all looked at those one's. Remember they marched in Ireland too and they're where no problems at all. If you go to animal rights or anti abortion marches you'll see placards just as violent and disgusting.

Kev_ps3

ScumLord wrote: »

Free speach in action. We might not agree but it's they're right to voice they're opinion in peaceful manner.

You can be sure Islamics in the US would be to **** scared of marching in America.

Ironic isnt it? The land of free speech, and you say they would be "**** scared of marching in America", like its nazi germany.

All this PC bull**** is breeding a generation of pussies to be honest.

Well said.

Kev_ps3

Morlar wrote: »

I dont agree there is any connection between any of this to the dollar v euro and I doubt america want to isolate themselves or to alienate europe if they can help it. I think the truth of it is that the neo-cons see europe as 'the old world' and america /asia as the new world.

Maby not, you never know.
I think america has already isolated itself from the people of europe. Our leaders are too scared.

super_furry

Everytime I hear some American talking head spout rubbish like this, I laugh. It's astounding how they warn the world about some flavour of the month nation that's the 'biggest threat to world security'. America is the biggest threat to world security - they're the ones arming everyone then starting the wars. They're screaming and shouting about supposed nuclear weapon development yet are the only country to wipe out cities full of people with one.

ejmaztec

One thing that the Americans don't want is a united Europe. They see such a thing as a threat, especially to their economy. They quite like it when European leaders can't agree amongst themselves. Man the barricades!

SimpleSam06

Morlar wrote: »

I think mexico is another danger area for them too - which might explain the wall they are looking to build across the mexican border.

You can't wall off a continent. What they might consider doing is to stop fucking with other countries, specifically those in the Middle East, and then they wouldn't have to worry about people coming to fuck with them.

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

Everytime I hear some American talking head spout rubbish like this, I laugh. It's astounding how they warn the world about some flavour of the month nation that's the 'biggest threat to world security'. America is the biggest threat to world security - they're the ones arming everyone then starting the wars. They're screaming and shouting about supposed nuclear weapon development yet are the only country to wipe out cities full of people with one.

So so true.

MOH

ejmaztec wrote: »

Unfortunately, our political correctness is being used against us. We're supposed to be tolerant of everybody and anything and keep our mouths shut, so as not to offend anyone. That would be ok if the whole world was civilised, but it's far from it, especially with 14th Century people having access to 21st Century weapons and technology.

Who are these 700-year-old people?! :eek:

KaG1888

How I feel about America's ''Great'' job over the last 50 or so years.

KaG1888 wrote: »

For those of you who think that America have done a good job in the last 50 years you are quite simply WRONG. They have ruined countless countries, regions and cultures with their ''constructive democratic policy''. I read alot of history, modern and not so modern. Some of the stuff I have read has been absolutely appalling in America's ''golden period''. Read some books about what they did to countries like Somalia in North Africa and you might just change your mind. The jist is the typical American approach of lending weapons/money to people who they knew couldn't pay it back to tackle a communist uprise(You guessed it, backed by the Soviets) in the country. Somalia are doing wonderfully now eh?(think of America every time you see a Concern advert)It makes me laugh at the amount of racsist Americans who smear black people for coming over to their country for a new life when America were the ones that ruined their previous one. I could list so many countries Vietnam, Cuba , Iraq, Paraguay etc. The list of countries and lives ruined is endless.

Then the corruption within the country itself is laughable. There are so many back handers with the drug lords in South America(yes the ones they are supposed to be stopping) its pathethic .America is generally a corupt country from the spine down under every leader they instate. The world is finally starting to open their eyes and see it.

Someone commented about China being the ''Superpower'' in the next 50 years and I honestly believe this is the sad road we are going down. Can you imagine a country like China ''running'' the world? (scary thought eh?) With their basic human rights issues and their medievil law system.

The United Nations should be a stronger organisation and they should be the world power not one country by itself. There should be a collective thinking before countries get invaded to stop a dictator ,to stop the country developing nuclear weapons etc.


One final note to the people who ''love'' America -

Read into the last 50 years before you sings praises about it. Remember the winners write the history while the losers only sing the songs so read stuff that is independent and not biast. Saying America is doing a great job is an actual f**king insult to some people so please think about touchy subjects before writing about them.


ps ~ I am an Irish Catholic living in Dublin just so people know I am not from one of the countries America ruined & am biast.

pwd

yeah we're the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" aren't we.
Of course they're using us as that already, so no need to invade.

Morlar

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You can't wall off a continent. What they might consider doing is to stop fucking with other countries, specifically those in the Middle East, and then they wouldn't have to worry about people coming to fuck with them.

Not to go offtopic but they can. If they want. Their choice for whatever reason whether its security or economic. Whether they should is another thing - and they are better placed to decide that in my opinion.

MOH wrote: »

Who are these 700-year-old people?! :eek:

Presumably he meant people who continue medieval (or even stone age) practices like the sharia law (ie stoning adulterous women to death). They would be a good example of people who are living in the 14th century.

ejmaztec

Morlar wrote: »

Presumably he meant people who continue medieval (or even stone age) practices like the sharia law (ie stoning adulterous women to death). They would be a good example of people who are living in the 14th century.

Spot on!;)

rossie1977

Deleted User wrote: »

That's something I was wondering about actually..

I've been to America recently and had the whole fingerprint and photo thing done. Does that mean I have to do it again each time I enter that country?

yep every time

this story comes as no surprise to people who watch idiots like bill o'reilly and glenn beck (which is a large portion of america). These fools have been spewing this bulls*it for the last 4 years and twisting all the news pictures to suit themselves

Morlar

rossie1977 wrote: »

yep every time

this story comes as no surprise to people who watch idiots like bill o'reilly and glenn beck (which is a large portion of america). These fools have been spewing this bulls*it for the last 4 years and twisting all the news pictures to suit themselves

I would agree bill o reilly is an idiot - the way he treated that guy whos father was killed in 911 was shameful (cant rem the name and couldnt be arsed googling it) - he basically all but attacked him for being against the iraq war.

Having said that bill o reilly does not write american foreign policy - its a bit simplistic to put this all down to american 'conservative media folks' and an un-informed electorate. I would give americans a bit more credit for that.

If anything its the other way around and its the perception in europe that 'all americans are stupid' is down to the media in the form of springer, judge judy etc. The reality on the ground is different in my limited experience.

Kev_ps3

Morlar wrote: »

Presumably he meant people who continue medieval (or even stone age) practices like the sharia law (ie stoning adulterous women to death). They would be a good example of people who are living in the 14th century.

And America is sooo much better isnt it? They are sooo 21st century.
Do you know that they still execute people using the gas chamber and the electric chair? (as recently as last september). So please dont talk to me about 'them' and 'us'.

Morlar

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

And America is sooo much better isnt it? They are sooo 21st century.
Do you know that they still execute people using the gas chamber and the electric chair? (as recently as last september). So please dont talk to me about 'them' and 'us'.

I would take their justice system over sharia law any day of the week.

Morlar

Not that I am an adulterous woman or anything

(If thats not an opening for a 'yore ma' joke I dont know what is).

Reku

I know we all like to blame the US for supplying countries with the means to ruin themselves but Europe has had a fair hand in that too, in fact for the period of 2000-2006 Europe made more sales than the USA did, which, since the arms trade is a global market, one can assume means that Europe supplied more weapons than the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

I think it may be a case of the US seek conflict, we only seek to profit from it. Doesn't really make us a whole lot better, they stir the sh*t, we help keep it bubbling over. While they are a bigger threat to the world as a whole we're not exactly throwing our entire weight into helping to fix things.

ejmaztec

I think that the Americans must be brainwashed by their media (I'm assuming) into thinking that us Europeans are a bunch of cowards who going to be ruled by Islamic Fundamentalists if we don't listen to the advice given by George W, etc.

If you ever visit the UK Times online when there is an article re the American relationship with Europe, the comments from the Americans are mostly the same old stuff "We saved your asses in two World Wars, you ungrateful bastar*s, you'd be speaking German if it weren't for us - oh, and you've all got bad teeth etc etc". One or two of the Americans apologise the ignorance of their countrymen, so there is some hope.

I've never visited the US, nor do I intend to. The CIA internet snoopers have probably got a lot of Europeans on a no-fly list.

ejmaztec

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

And America is sooo much better isnt it? They are sooo 21st century.
Do you know that they still execute people using the gas chamber and the electric chair? (as recently as last september). So please dont talk to me about 'them' and 'us'.

You could see that irony when primitive Turkey had to abolish capital punishment before they were even considered as potential EU members. I wonder, in a hypothetical situation, whether the US would have such a condition attached, were they to seek membership. I doubt it.

rossie1977

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that the Americans must be brainwashed by their media (I'm assuming) into thinking that us Europeans are a bunch of cowards who going to be ruled by Islamic Fundamentalists if we don't listen to the advice given by George W, etc.

If you ever visit the UK Times online when there is an article re the American relationship with Europe, the comments from the Americans are mostly the same old stuff "We saved your asses in two World Wars, you ungrateful bastar*s, you'd be speaking German if it weren't for us - oh, and you've all got bad teeth etc etc". One or two of the Americans apologise the ignorance of their countrymen, so there is some hope.

I've never visited the US, nor do I intend to. The CIA internet snoopers have probably got a lot of Europeans on a no-fly list.

no doubt the americans are brainwashed by their media, about a year ago i was talking to my aunt about a wonderful holiday in france i had just been on and she replied "My god you were in France, that is an awful country". She has never set foot in france in her life btw and is Irish born (moved to USA aged 18) visits Ireland every other year and votes democrat, now if an ex pat thinks like that, imagine what a evangelical american born republican from kansas who has never left america thinks :eek:

ScumLord

farohar wrote: »

I know we all like to blame the US for supplying countries with the means to ruin themselves but Europe has had a fair hand in that too, in fact for the period of 2000-2006 Europe made more sales than the USA did, which, since the arms trade is a global market, one can assume means that Europe supplied more weapons than the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

And who do you think we're selling them too? The US police and armed forces use top of the range European weapons. I can't think of an American sidearm manufacturer.

pwd

This is alarming tbh.
Saying that European nations are not the threat, but rather terrorists residing in them, is actually a bit of a non-sequitor.
America's given reasons for invading Iraq were:
1. It was a home for/supported terrorists. When in fact the Iraqi government was secular and therefore an enemy of the religious fanatics
2. It was building weapons of mass destruction. But it wasn't.
3. It was a corrupt state with human rights violations. What's to stop them saying the EU is too?

The EU is an emerging military power. The USA are not happy about this. Also the EU could be seen to threaten the military alliance between the USA and the UK.

Considering the origins of most of the dominant groups in the USA, it is hard to see them being too enthusiastic about attacking countries many of them see as their homelands. However no American considers themselves from the EU, in the way they may consider themselves irish american etc. Could they paint the EU as an oppressive empire dominating the constituent nations? They probably could: The EU can impose laws on those nations after all. "...there is no reason at all why the U.S., having played midwife at the birth of this political infant [the EU], should not play a role in its demise." This quote is taken from http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/hl983.cfm

ScumLord

pwd wrote: »

Considering the origins of most of the dominant groups in the USA, it is hard to see them being too enthusiastic about attacking countries many of them see as their homelands. However no American considers themselves from the EU, in the way they may consider themselves irish american etc. Could they paint the EU as an oppressive empire dominating the constituent nations? They probably could: The EU can impose laws on those nations after all. "...there is no reason at all why the U.S., having played midwife at the birth of this political infant [the EU], should not play a role in its demise." This quote is taken from http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/hl983.cfm

I don't think so, I think it would take years to hoodwink the American people into believing Europe is actually a threat to them but I wouldn't doubt some of the top brass have already begun this process. I don't see it taking hold though there's far to much communication between Europe and the states for lies like that to over power the truth.

Kev_ps3

pwd wrote: »

Could they paint the EU as an oppressive empire dominating the constituent nations? They probably could
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You can do anything when a population believes the media without question. From recent experience I think the americans fall into this bracket.

briantwin

Well its no big surprise that America is splashing around muddying up their own pond again. This is just more political and media dramatics to try and sway peoples voting for the primaries. The current administration has many big promises to keep especially when it comes to its business associates. Oil companies and so on. "We'll scratch your back and you scratch ours , oh and while we're at it we'll make sure the next guy in the white house has an itchy back too!" Its simple, scare mongering to insure that another republican puppet is flung into the American peoples good graces because they are willing to "defend" America against all its enemies. Its funny because not one mentions making amends or actually talking to these "terrorist" groups all they talk about is destroying them or defending America from them. Also i do think that the European threat could also be construed as the economic trouncing that the US is taking at present. The last MAJOR threat to the American economy was when Sadaam Hussein announced the introduction of the Petro-Euro to replace the standard Petro-Dollar. This change would have impacted the American economy in an irreparable way. So what to do with a threat like that?? I know. Invade the country, take control of the oil.

I understand about the threat of Islamic extremists hi-jacking more airliners and so on. But as a nation i think they should take a bit of f**king responsibility for their current situation. When you bring it down to brass tacks. They as a nation are to blame. I dont want to hear this "are the people who died on Sept 11th responsible aswell blah blah blah blah." the answer is yes! Either by their support of a tyrannical government or their inaction. They all had a hand in not bringing about the changes necessary to ensure their nations foreign policies were in the best interests of peace and international unity rather than profit and power.

SimpleSam06

Morlar wrote: »

Not to go offtopic but they can. If they want. Their choice for whatever reason whether its security or economic.

No, they really can't. It is literally impossible to seal off a continent in order to keep out persons who really want to get in. If you wanted to keep out free roaming elephants, you could do it. People, not so much. And if they try, they are going to catapult themselves right through the iron age, whistle through the bronze, and land with a resounding bang in the stone age.

Maximilian

The biggest threat to Americans is, well, other Americans. I propose banning all travel by Americans outside of America. That should take care of all this rather unpleasant terrorist business.

Morlar

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

No, they really can't. It is literally impossible to seal off a continent in order to keep out persons who really want to get in. If you wanted to keep out free roaming elephants, you could do it. People, not so much. And if they try, they are going to catapult themselves right through the iron age, whistle through the bronze, and land with a resounding bang in the stone age.

The point is if they want to build a wall/fence/security barrier then its their right to do so. Whether YOU think it will prove either effective or internationally popular is irrelevant.

Crazy Christ

Most Americans don't even know the capital of Europe

Kev_ps3

briantwin wrote: »

The last MAJOR threat to the American economy was when Sadaam Hussein announced the introduction of the Petro-Euro to replace the standard Petro-Dollar. This change would have impacted the American economy in an irreparable way. So what to do with a threat like that?? I know. Invade the country, take control of the oil.

I am interested you mentioned this because Iran has is recent years decided to move away from the petro-dollar. And guess what, they want weapons of mass destruction.
Also, China is a big threat to the American economy. American workers have lost thousands of jobs because of companys going out of business as a result of their cheap goods. China and others are now starting to buy up American companys.
The good news is American domination looks like its coming to an end sometime this century. The big question is, will they take the world with them? If the neo-cons stay in power, then I think the answer is yes.

Terry

Is anyone really surprised at this?
They've been moving West for years now.
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now that country known as Europe.

ScumLord

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I am interested you mentioned this because Iran has is recent years decided to move away from the petro-dollar. And guess what, they want weapons of mass destruction.

No they don't all they want to do is use the same power source the west is pushing as the only power source viable for the future.

While Chinese people might be taking jobs away from ordinary hard working Americans there putting huge sums of money in the pockets of the top 1% that pull the puppet strings behind the US government so I don't see the US government doing anything to stop that.

Kev_ps3

ScumLord wrote: »

No they don't all they want to do is use the same power source the west is pushing as the only power source viable for the future.

.

I was joking! What I meant was because they are threatening the US economically then the US is making up some BS about them wanting nuclear weapons so they can invade.

ScumLord

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I was joking! What I meant was because they are threatening the US economically then the US is making up some BS about them wanting nuclear weapons so they can invade.

AAhhh, sarcasisim is it.