possession or mental illness?

AssassinX

Yeah so i also have yet another theory this time its about mental diseases and mind over matter. so there are all kinds of mental diseases out there and some date back even to the biblical era and some have even swayed the oppinion of entire nations read up on the roman catholic church and back when people were pardon my exxpression freakin narrow minded! if a schitzophrenic patient waltzed into town he would be stoned to death out of fear that he or she lets not be sexist here were a demomaniac or commonly reffered to as possessed right clergy would come and ''cleanse'' the poor person and by cleanse i mean dip face in ice water a couple of thousand times or yell and frieghten them into faking a demonic exhale so im just wondering where the fine line would be drawn between possession and a mental illness theres always going to be cases doctors cant solve and there will always be possessed people simply going to rehab so like how do you tell and of course the media doesnt help at all so just wanted to hear some oppinions please

meglome

I'm not actually interested in the paranormal but can I recommend punctuation. It hurts to read that text.

hiorta

Aye indeed meglome, then it might be possible to learn of what meaning is intended.

6th

I wish I had started this thread a couple of days earlier because its very relevant to a current topic.

If I was ever to seriously consider a case of possession it would be this case:

Father not guilty of child murder

A City high flyer who repeatedly smashed his two-year-old daughter's head on the ground has been found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.

Alberto Izaga, 36, suffered from an "episode of acute mental illness" when he attacked his daughter Yanire on 3 June last year at their £1m home.

She died two days later in hospital from multiple skull fractures.

An Old Bailey judge sent Izaga, from Albert Embankment in central London, to a mental hospital indefinitely.

Judge Richard Hone described it as an "exceptional case".

Mr Izaga, a Spanish national, was suspended from his position at the insurance firm Swiss Re after his daughter's death.

'Frenzied' attack

The court heard Mr Izaga saw the horror film Bug, in which a couple are driven mad by bugs under the skin, during a holiday in the US.

Soon after he attended a motivational talk at a conference in Geneva and was affected by a motivational talk by an adventurer.

On his return to his £1m London flat on 2 June he complained of exhaustion and insomnia.

He woke up in the early hours of 3 June and ranted for two hours about God and sects before suddenly attacking his daughter.

Mr Izaga's wife, Ligia, tried to stop the attack. She had heard him say: "I know what I have to do. I have to kill her."

Jonathan Rees, prosecuting said Yanire had suffered multiple skull fractures consistent with having her head "repeatedly smashed on the floor".

Mr Izaga, was arrested and taken to a psychiatric unit after the attack, the court heard.

Doctors there said he was suffering "from an episode of acute mental illness which had a rapid onset".

Mr Rees said Mr Izaga was "totally devoted" to Yanire and he had later described her as "the most precious person on earth".

"He killed his daughter in a frenzy," Mr Rees said.

'Big Ben' chant

The court heard that part of the attack was recorded on a neighbour's voicemail as Mrs Izaga rang friends for help.

Mr Izaga could be heard shouting in English and Spanish.

He screamed: "I just want to sleep... God does not exist, the universe does not exist, humanity does not exist."

The court heard when police and paramedics arrived he kept chanting "Big Ben, Big Ben".

When Mr Izaga was questioned by police he said he had no recollection of the attack.

Two doctors told the court that Mr Izaga was suffering from schizophrenia or an "acute psychotic disorder" at the time of the attack.

In my opinion possession is possible.

jtsuited

AssassinX wrote: »

demomaniac or commonly reffered to as possessed right clergy would come

demomaniac : noun - somebody fanatical about demonstrations of sorts. Spelling ftw.

AssassinX wrote: »

just wanted to hear some oppinions please

you sir, are an idiot.


but in all seriousness. are you some kid or something? The standard of your 6 posts must be a new all time low on boards.

stevenmu

jtsuited banned for two weeks for personal abuse. Pathetic insults over the internet? Seriously, are you some kid or something ?

kshiel

I am not sure about possession. Does possession mean someone/thing taking over the body and controling that person in both the mental and physcial sense?. This is the part I have trouble with. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule but does the person not always have the right or ability to reject such thoughts or is it the weakness of that persons mind which enables the control or at least that sense of control to be taken away.

I do think on the other hand people can be very much infulenced by outside forces be it spirits or easily conviced by tv or other peoples opinions hence leaving them a great deal confused and unsure of what their actual stance is on matters leading them to act out in anger or blind rage.

AckwelFoley

Im not a believer in "Paranormal" "Possession" type situations, we as humans tend to explain the as to now unexplainable as UFO's or posession etc...

As the OP said ppl with a mental disorder were thought to be witches or possessed and burned at the stake years ago... but of course now we have a better solution, put them on a 6 month waiting list FOR TREATMENT thanks to the HSE!

Ive yet to see any evidence of any parnormal activity, now dont get me wrong, im not trolling the Paranormal forum here, im actually very interested, but also a complete skeptic

monkeyfudge

I think this is very dangerous territory.

While our medical understanding of schizophrenia is far from complete. We do still understand a great of what goes on in the brain to cause it and we can introduce drugs to control the condition. There's a foundation there that is being built on.

I don't believe there is any foundation of evidence to suggest that schizophrenia is actually spiritual possession.

I speak from personal experience here... the standard of mental health care in this country is very poor. Someone close to me was referred from a private clinic to a spiritualist who told her that the voices in her head were actually spirits. This of course didn't help in anyway whatsoever and it end up with me getting a knife stuck my chest by a very sick person who needed proper treatment. That incident led to them getting proper treatment at the Central Mental Hospital where they are on a course of drugs that allows them to function somewhat in society again.

6th

I'm not saying that in the case above that schizophrenia is not the case. I believe its the best answer for the situation based on what these people know.

Its quite a jump to go from no problems to killing your child.

monkeyfudge

6th wrote: »

Its quite a jump to go from no problems to killing your child.

It happens. Dopamine levels or some other chemical in the brain go heywire and the smallest thing can set you off.

I had another friend who read a book and became obsessed with it... in the space of a week he completely deteriorated to the point where he ran at a wall with knife in his hand and embedded it in his chest. He survived and was relatively fine afterwards, mentally.

I think looking for paranormal reasons for mental illness is a very bad idea. We have medical solutions... they're not perfect... but they're improving all the time.

Not The Real Scarecrow

check out the exorcism of emily rose, kinda gives both view points and if I remember correctly its based on a true case.I believe that the majority of cases can be explained psychologically.
After the exorcist came out in the 70's the amount of people seeking exorcisms in america went through the roof.If there if ever anything that people can use as an excuse to rationalise their behaviour or seek attention they'll try it.I've seen a fair few allegedly real exorcisms over the years , mainly in the states, and none of them are like what people preconceive them to be.Mostly they're preformed on people that believe that they're sinners in some way and that they must be possessed in order to carry out the acts that they believe to be wrong in the eyes of the community.Alot of the time its like the laying on of hands you'd see in movies.Its really sad actually, one can only feel pity for all the people involved.

6th

I normal dont go with a paranormal explaination for crimes like the above (or any crime come to think of it) but something about this case makes me feel different - was actually Mrs. 6th who said it to me first and she's not prone to flights of fancy.

Emily Rose film was very good Meatwad, more of a courtroom drama than I would like but still very interesting.

pookie82

This is painful to read. If text speak is banned on alot of these forums, why are posts which are completely devoid of punctuation (to the extent that the issue is difficult to decipher) and almost incoherent allowed up here???

stevenmu

People please stay on topic. The issue of punctuation has already been mentioned. Once is enough. No more off-topic posts.

faceman

Apologies in advance for this long post, but hopefully i can demonstrate my point with this story below. Note that the story below is true, involves people i know but i have respectfully changed the names.

My friend mary lives with her husband john. (they're both 40) John's mother, anne is in her 60's but is still a healthy person of sound mind. One day john got a call in work from his brother to go immediately to anne's house as something awful was happening. John arrived and said he couldnt believe what he saw. his mother was sitting up in floods of tears, clutching the duvet for dear life. She said the devil was in the room with them but that our lady had arrived and would protect them. John said that her motions and her attention was spooky, it was like she was looking at people who werent there. She would occasionally go into prayer. They called a doctor and he gave her pills etc.

She continued to see the devil. She was able to describe in vivid detail what he looked like, and what Our Lady looked like. However her upset and stress was getting worse. She was brought to hospital the next day. Tests etc didnt show anything up conclusively. To cut a long story short, she was eventually checked into a mental hospital in dublin. The devil didnt go away. The pills got stronger.

A new doctor took over her case. He had her sent for more scans and tests. He then discovered some problem with her thyroid and she was sent for an operation. The doctor was quite surprised her thyroid issue hadnt been checked out previously.

She never saw the devil or Our Lady after that. Her visions were attributed to her medical problem and due to an oversight in the original hospital, she had been misdiagnosed. Anne fully understands that what she saw wasnt real. Unfortunately, and this is the truely sad part of the story, she remembers those hallucinations very vividly and as a result sold her house as she didnt want to sleep in her bedroom after that.

John and mary are both successful people in life, very educated too. they both admitted that it got to a point where they both believed the devil was visiting their mother.

So i guess my point is this, there is 99.9% of the time an explanation for what could be described as possession. I have a friend who is doctor and i often ask him if he or his colleagues ever have any weird patients that couldnt be explained to which he always says no. If a pill/operation cures it or supresses it, then it cant be possession.

In saying all this however i do believe that possession is possible, ive just yet to come across a possible real case.

Re emily rose, the story that it is based on was a german girl. Her story differed quite dramatically from the film.

kshiel

Dont know if this belongs in this thread or not, so feel free to remove if wish. I found these stories interesting.....

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/19/christian-exorcists-charged-with-manslaughter/