New fast/economical diesel in July?

omega man

Might be relocating in the near future and if so would need to get me a diesel as milage could hover around the 25000 miles pa. My current motor is a Mazda 3 MPS so i want something where i wont have a big power drop and will see good fuel economy return. With the vrt/tax changes i would be looking at a new car the likes of a BMW 123D M-Sport (200bhp) or an Audi A3 TDI (170bhp) Quattro. I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd) as my commute would involve some back roads etc. I have thought of the 3 series but the 320D is a tad slow and the M sport model is a bit more pricey and i really dont want a standard version. I have also considered the Octavia vrs(fully loaded) even though its fwd (had the 2L petrol one already) or the Leon FR. Dont want a golf! Any thoughts guys??

milltown

As long as it's not too small for you I'd have the beemer. One of the many newly graduated VRT experts should be able to confirm, but I think the Audi diesel is dirtier than the BMW one and will attract higher VRT and road tax.

JJJJNR

Altea FR 170 bhp / import a A4 3.0 D Quattro.

farva

Whats your budget?

I'm looking at buying something similar in july. I'm thinking about an A4 2.0 TDI 170 S-Line. Its front wheel drive, but it slots into the 20% VRT and €290 road tax. I'd love the quattro version, but its 28% VRT and €600 road tax. And the mpg drops from 48 to 42, so I reckon that it probably isnt worth it.

Biro

They'll all be slow compared to the MPS, but I might as well throw this one in before someone else does.. the Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm, can be got with 4 wheel drive too. I might be wrong, but there may be a twin turbo version of this coming. There is in the 1.9 JTDm anyway. Also word of a 3 litre V6 diesel.

fletch

Not usually a fan of French cars but what about a Mégane Renaultsport dCi 175?
My money would be on the 123d, not a fan of the styling but it is a fantastic engine!

Tipsy Mac

Rear wheel drive is good except when there's ice, in such cases the car is completely crippled, I would factor this in to your final decision.

Of the cars you mentioned my preference would be the Octavia VRS, lovely looking cars and a reasonable price too for what your getting.

smcgiff

Biro wrote: »

They'll all be slow compared to the MPS, but I might as well throw this one in before someone else does.. the Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm, can be got with 4 wheel drive too. I might be wrong, but there may be a twin turbo version of this coming. There is in the 1.9 JTDm anyway. Also word of a 3 litre V6 diesel.

I've this on order, the 210 BHP Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm. Strangely you can't get it in 4 wheel drive in this country, while you can in the UK! I tried and even asked Fiat Ireland HQ.

Anyway, it would only have added extra weight and slowed the car down right!

Edit, BTW Biro - There's rumours Alfa are going to stick a detuned Ferrari engine into the 159. Watch this space.

JHMEG

omega man wrote: »

I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd)

rwd for stability? That's a new one to me.

There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla, and also apparently a diesel Civic Type-R on the way.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla

Which can't be bought in Ireland, and it's an Auris in any event! Its not terribly green anyway, at 45 mpg, a 120d which actually has more power(if only by 2 bhp!) averages 57.6 mpg in the same cycle.


That's besides the point, I remember there being an Auris T180 for sale last year on carzone and it was for sale at €43,000 and that car had 3,000 miles up on the clock, so even if it were to be sold here, that gives you some idea as to how much it would cost if Toyota were to sell it here.

JJJJNR

BMW's are very golf clubish now though, if ye know what i mean, good and all, but a bit golf.

E92

JJJJNR wrote: »

BMW's are very golf clubish now though, if ye know what i mean, good and all, but a bit golf.

What's wrong with Golf:D? Don't tell me you're from the Jeremy Clarkson school on Golf:D.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Which can't be bought in Ireland,

July will prob change that.

E92 wrote: »

a 120d which actually has more power(if only by 2 bhp!) averages

Has anyone actually seen an Efficient Dynamic-equipped BMW in real life?

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

July will prob change that.

24% VRT then, not great all things considered. But no I wouldn't rule it out either. Will be very pricey going on what I said earlier. Almost €40k even at 24% VRT, since as I say, I remember seeing one advertised last year for €43k and that was with 3,000 miles upon it.

JHMEG wrote: »

Has anyone actually seen an Efficient Dynamic-equipped BMW in real life?

There are loads of them around. All the facelifted 1 and 5 series models, which were introduced nearly a year ago at this stage(excluding 520d and 116i) have them, and in September 07 the 116i also got them, I've seen 2 or 3 08 BMWs already, 2X520d and 1X3 series, and all 08 MY 3 and 6 series have EfficientDynamics as well as the 520d. I've seen several 07 1 and 5 series with them too.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

There are loads of them around.

The first RHD models only left the factory (in South Africa I believe) in October or November I thought? There are loads of facelifts around, but loads don't have ED. And no-one on here has mentioned owning or driving one, or even being in one...

omega man

JHMEG wrote: »

rwd for stability? That's a new one to me.

There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla, and also apparently a diesel Civic Type-R on the way.

When i say stability i mean a lack of wheel spin. The mps has a lot of power but when very wet she can struggle in first. I am leaning towards the 123D and i think the M sport version gives it some sense of style. having picked the mps over the likes of the focus st i think it shows looks are not the be all for me. If it wasnt for the new vrt/tax rates i would probably go for a used 330D or the likes. That 2.4 alfa sounds nice but i dont know if i could get over the reliability issues. Whats its co2 rating? As for budget, im hoping the list on the 123D M sport will be around 42/43K so really depends on trade-in value for the mps. I got the mps at Joe Duffy who are mazda also so that would be my best bet.

Biro

smcgiff wrote: »

Strangely you can't get it in 4 wheel drive in this country, while you can in the UK! I tried and even asked Fiat Ireland HQ.

Typical :rolleyes:
Best of luck with the new bus when you get it though! Nicest looking saloon on the road.

JJJJNR

1 series and style in the one sentence...ahem over active imagination. please they're the most boring looking things on the road. If you want style get a Citroen.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223

.Longshanks.

JJJJNR wrote: »

If you want style get a Citroen.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223

If you want one of the heaviest depreciating cars on the road get that Citroen.

WhatCar.com wrote:

FOR Refreshingly different from the ubiquitous German cars; two fine V6 engines and a good motorway ride

AGAINST As an ownership proposition, a potential disaster: expensive to buy and run; aftersales service and residuals are big worries

MarkN

style.. Citroen ? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was sarcasm! Omega I wouldn't let ice and RWD get in the way of your choice.. When do we really get ice worth talking about in this country and any that you do encounter, common sense and the traction control button will keep you in the right direction.

JHMEG

MarkN wrote: »

style.. Citroen ? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was sarcasm!

Some people quite like Citroens, tho not myself personally. A girl I know thinks the C5 is the nicest looking car on the road.:eek:

MarkN wrote: »

I wouldn't let ice and RWD get in the way

Drive the yoke I drove 10 days ago (400bhp 300ZX) and you'd have serious reservations about rwd and anything other than perfect weather conditions!

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

The first RHD models only left the factory (in South Africa I believe) in October or November I thought? There are loads of facelifts around, but loads don't have ED. And no-one on here has mentioned owning or driving one, or even being in one...

Like I said, it's only the 520d and 116i that recently gained EfficientDynamics. The 116i got it a few months ago, the 520d just recently. When those cars got their facelifts back in March/April last year the rest of the 1 and 5 series range got them.

The entire 3 series range only recently gained EfficientDynamics and are visually identical to those without ED(for now, but a facelifted 3 series is coming in the later half of 2008). The 6 series also got a facelift recently too, and the entire 6 series range now has them too as part of the facelift.

AFAIK all those cars are built in Germany. The 5 and 6 series are built in Dingolfing in Bavaria. The 1 series is made in Leipzig, and the 3 series in RHD form is indeed built in South Africa. The LHD 3 series is built in Dingolfing as well though AFAIK.

I presume that's where you got the thing about South Africa from.

ED was added to the 3 series in October, but as nobody buys cars at that time of the year, it's pretty much safe to say that no 3 series with an 07 reg has ED.

MarkN

JHMEG wrote: »

Some people quite like Citroens, tho not myself personally. A girl I know thinks the C5 is the nicest looking car on the road.:eek:

Drive the yoke I drove 10 days ago (400bhp 300ZX) and you'd have serious reservations about rwd and anything other than perfect weather conditions!

I know it's a more modern car and it's not 400bhp but my yoke copes with 306bhp through the rear wheels ok and the OP is talking about a new car here.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

All the facelifted 1 and 5 series models, have ED

Has anyone actually seen a BMW with ED in the flesh? I haven't and I don't know anyone who has. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying if there are so many around isn't it strange that no-one on here knows anything about them?

JHMEG

MarkN wrote: »

I know it's a more modern car and it's not 400bhp but my yoke copes with 306bhp through the rear wheels ok and the OP is talking about a new car here.

Fair enough, I'm sure your's has plenty of driver aids to stop novices sticking the arse in the ditch when it rains..

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Has anyone actually seen a BMW with ED in the flesh?

Yes, several times. Lost count ages ago how many times I've seen one.

EDIT: Here is a 07 1 series with EfficientDynamics.

smcgiff

omega man wrote: »

That 2.4 alfa sounds nice but i dont know if i could get over the reliability issues. Whats its co2 rating?

What reliability issues. The 159 has been on the continent since 06 and it's come on leaps and bounds from the 156, and it comes with a 3 year warranty.

The CO2 is 179 I think, not too bad.

E92

smcgiff wrote: »

The CO2 is 179 I think, not too bad.

That is bad, EfficientDynamics BMW 3 series petrols with 3.0 litre engines produce less CO2 than that, 170 g/km for a 325i, and 173 g/km for a 330i!

As for Alfa reliability, I'm reliably informed that the 1.9 diesel is actually very good indeed for reliability.

maidhc

omega man wrote: »

I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd) as my commute would involve some back roads etc.

Get a car that holds the road well! I don't think 4x4 will help with much other than to sap performance and economy.

I'd like a VRS TDI to be honest!

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

EDIT: Here is a 07 1 series with EfficientDynamics.

That's on a dealer's forecourt.

Does anyone actually own one, esp one of the 3 or 5 series?

maidhc

JHMEG wrote: »

That's on a dealer's forecourt.

Does anyone actually own one, esp one of the 3 or 5 series?

Can you switch off this efficient dynamics stuff? Like if you DONT WANT your car to turn off in traffic because your battery may be somewhat dodgy... or as one man once said, if you have a "lazy starter motor"?*

*which I can see happening in short course if the poor devil is cranking a diesel all day.

JHMEG

Fifth Gear reviewed the Mini Clubman, which has auto stop start. Yer man couldn't get to grips with it at all "it doesn't work very well, but fortunately it can be turned off".

In which case I assume the CO2 is pretty much the same as it is for a non-ED car. In which case BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink.

MarkN

Quattro will make any Audi handle unbelievably well but I do feel economy suffers. A mate of mine has an Astra OPC and can regularly get 600-700kms from a tank. My S3 which had a few more ponies but climate and Quattro would never edge over 460kms.. I would go as far as saying my current car is nearly as economical as the Audi was with Quattro so bear that in mind if you won't it PLUS economy.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

That is bad, EfficientDynamics BMW 3 series petrols with 3.0 litre engines produce less CO2 than that, 170 g/km for a 325i, and 173 g/km for a 330i!

As for Alfa reliability, I'm reliably informed that the 1.9 diesel is actually very good indeed for reliability.

I wouldn't go blowing BMW's trumpet yet. 179 mightn't be great, but it's not all that bad. And would improve if you switched off your engine every time you stopped! And the engine is a few years old now, so it's very good for it's age. Just because BMW are after releasing a brand new (bearly on the road they're so new) range of efficient engines, doesn't mean no one else is capable of. Wait till an all new Alfa diesel hits the market, then judge! BMW have times when their engines are out a while too you know!

omega man

MarkN wrote: »

Quattro will make any Audi handle unbelievably well but I do feel economy suffers. A mate of mine has an Astra OPC and can regularly get 600-700kms from a tank. My S3 which had a few more ponies but climate and Quattro would never edge over 460kms.. I would go as far as saying my current car is nearly as economical as the Audi was with Quattro so bear that in mind if you won't it PLUS economy.

I get between 25-29mpg on the mps and as much as i really dont want to change its just not practical or economical to keep if i move. As for the RWD issue, i found my old E46 320 to have fantastic grip, better than my previous fwd vrs and my current mps. I really dont want to go for a big car as the wife has a scenic for the family outings! As for the image of the 1 series, i think the bog version looks dull but in M Sport i think it looks good especially on the new 3 door model. Despite what i said though i still havent ruled out a 3 series. My budget could stretch to a 325D SE (46K aprox), any thoughts?

maidhc

Biro wrote: »

I wouldn't go blowing BMW's trumpet yet. 179 mightn't be great, but it's not all that bad. And would improve if you switched off your engine every time you stopped! And the engine is a few years old now, so it's very good for it's age. Just because BMW are after releasing a brand new (bearly on the road they're so new) range of efficient engines, doesn't mean no one else is capable of. Wait till an all new Alfa diesel hits the market, then judge! BMW have times when their engines are out a while too you know!

I think JHMEG is right about BMW. This ED thing sounds like a bit of a scam if you can switch it off! You may as well have a "high co2 mode"

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

You really should do some research before coming out with sweeping statements.

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

ALL manufacturers claims about new technolgy should be viewed with suspicion and cynicism until well proven!

I do like their cars, but lets face it, BMW have never been a particularly innovative company!

Biro

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

I wasn't knocking BMW, I was saying that the engines are hot off the press if you like with the ED technology... My point being not to keep knocking other manufacturers regarding their CO2 levels, cause maybe some engines in the pipeline from one of them might be about to set a new benchmark.

Besides, lets not forget that the BMW M5 is one of the highest polluters for sale in this country... higher than some quicker cars, but we don't go knocking BMW for that!!

E92

Biro wrote: »

I wasn't knocking BMW, I was saying that the engines are hot off the press if you like with the ED technology... My point being not to keep knocking other manufacturers regarding their CO2 levels, cause maybe some engines in the pipeline from one of them might be about to set a new benchmark.

Besides, lets not forget that the BMW M5 is one of the highest polluters for sale in this country... higher than some quicker cars, but we don't go knocking BMW for that!!

That's fair enough, I realise that the M5 is far from the greenest car on sale, but that's hardly the point, is it?

I'm only saying that 179 g/km is bad because a 6 cylinder petrol should be polluting a lot more CO2, not less of it!

And if Alfa have something in the pipeline that produces less CO2 then I look forward to seeing it.

I don't have a problem with people disliking BMWs, far from it of course. I dislike quite a good few of them myself. I'm not terribly keen on the current 5 series as I've said on more than one occasion. And a lot of the Chris Bangle designs are hideous. And trying to find niches like the X1 and X6 and Progressive Activity Sedan which by the way looks very similar to the X6 and only seats 4 when it is supposed to be an MPV is wrong IMO. The 1 series was a mistake in my eyes, it brings the BMW brand more downmarket, but the sales figures tell a different story, and now in the current climate where emissions are all the rage it is probably just as well they do have the 1 series after all.

What I don't like is when people seize every little opportunity to criticise BMW about things no matter how petty. As I said before there are times I feel that people would argue that black was white with anything BMW related here.

niceirishfella

JJJJNR wrote: »

1 series and style in the one sentence...ahem over active imagination. please they're the most boring looking things on the road. If you want style get a Citroen.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223

Defo a stylish car.........but 74k for it? It'll only book 44k next year I'd say

Biro

E92 wrote: »

That's fair enough, I realise that the M5 is far from the greenest car on sale, but that's hardly the point, is it?

I'm only saying that 179 g/km is bad because a 6 cylinder petrol should be polluting a lot more CO2, not less of it!

And if Alfa have something in the pipeline that produces less CO2 then I look forward to seeing it.

I don't have a problem with people disliking BMWs, far from it of course. I dislike quite a good few of them myself. I'm not terribly keen on the current 5 series as I've said on more than one occasion. And a lot of the Chris Bangle designs are hideous. And trying to find niches like the X1 and X6 and Progressive Activity Sedan which by the way looks very similar to the X6 and only seats 4 when it is supposed to be an MPV is wrong IMO. The 1 series was a mistake in my eyes, it brings the BMW brand more downmarket, but the sales figures tell a different story, and now in the current climate where emissions are all the rage it is probably just as well they do have the 1 series after all.

What I don't like is when people seize every little opportunity to criticise BMW about things no matter how petty. As I said before there are times I feel that people would argue that black was white with anything BMW related here.

No, you're right, I hate this brand bashing that happens here a lot. I like a lot of BMW's. The biggest problem I have with them though is the image. This idea that you have 40% of people who'll hate you for owning one cause they say you think you're great, 40% who'll love you cause it's a beemer, not having a clue or caring what's under the bonnet, and only 20% who actually know the good from the bad. THat's why if I ever get a beemer, I'll have to get one with over 200bhp, cause the way I see it you need the clout to back up the statement the badge is making! 316's should be banned.
Anyhoo... this has strayed from the topic. OP, get the Alfa!

cashmni1

OP, get the BMW, if you don't mind the lack of space. If you travel back roads, yes rwd and something nice and short. The BMW has an exelent co2 rating for a car with 200bhp. Leave the front wheels do the steering and most of the braking. Let the back wheels do the pushing. There is lots of tourqe too so there won't be that much of a drop from the MPS.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Hold on a sec. Do you mean that Efficient Dynamics doesn't necessarily mean the car has ASS? Or do you mean the 325i you mentioned doesn't have ED at all?

Now before I go and look at BMW's website, I'd say the 170-ish grams figure is more in line with a normal 1.6-1.8 petrol car.

Ok, BMW website time:
BMW.IE: 325i (2497cc) = 203g
BMW.CO.UK: 325i (2996cc and ED is specifically mentioned) = 170g

Mmm, this is interesting. Our 325i is a 2.5 litre, a bit of an "Irish special", by the looks of things. I would imagine it's substantially cheaper than a 3 litre under the current regime at least. Oh, and there's no mention of our 325i having Efficient Dynamics.

Let's see what the South Africans get, seeing as it's built there, and like here cars are expensive relative to salaries:
BMW.CO.ZA: 325i (2497cc) = 203g

So can we say right here right now that the 325 in Ireland doesn't have ED and pollutes 203g!

And finally, if like maidhc says the car has a user selectable high CO2 mode, then the car should be assessed for CO2 with high CO2 mode turned on.

(Yes, hybrids can be slow to auto stop in freezing weather. The owner's manual states this, so I don't know why it's a surprise to anyone.)

MarkN

J - for someone who moans about BMWs being the talk here, you do a lot of it yourself

You are a Honda lover, E92 is a BMW lover, end of.

I have to say I saw a white 3dr 120d with M sport and it didn't look bad at all. Would I drive one? No. But they're not as bad looking as the 5dr.

Omega - bear in mind the A3 is probably at the end-ish of its life now. They're around since 2003 so it's pretty much 5 years old now. Not sure how much having 'the old model' bothers you.

As for that Citroen - anyone who spends 75 big ones on one seriously needs more than their head examined.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Hold on a sec. Do you mean that Efficient Dynamics doesn't necessarily mean the car has ASS? Or do you mean the 325i you mentioned doesn't have ED at all?

Read my previous post(the answer is in it).

JHMEG wrote: »

Now before I go and look at BMW's website, I'd say the 170-ish grams figure is more in line with a normal 1.6-1.8 petrol car.

1.6 Avensis 172 g/km, 1.8 Avensis 171 g/km, 1.6 Mondeo 172 g/km, 1.8 A4 169 g/km, so yes.

JHMEG wrote: »

Ok, BMW website time:
BMW.IE: 325i (2497cc) = 203g
BMW.CO.UK: 325i (2996cc and ED is specifically mentioned) = 170g

Mmm, this is interesting. Our 325i is a 2.5 litre, a bit of an "Irish special", by the looks of things. I would imagine it's substantially cheaper than a 3 litre under the current regime at least. Oh, and there's no mention of our 325i having Efficient Dynamics.

Let's see what the South Africans get, seeing as it's built there, and like here cars are expensive relative to salaries:
BMW.CO.ZA: 325i (2497cc) = 203g

You didn't look at the pricelist for the 325i on bmw.ie obviously. Look at that and tell me what it says(by the way no prizes for guessing which is right). BMW Ireland is a subsidiary of BMW GB, Irish spec BMWs are identical bar the speedo being in km/h to those across the pond, it hardly makes sense to import completely different cars. I know it says otherwise in the technical data section of BMW.ie's website, but it's completely out of date(those are for the non EfficientDynamics, they still have the wrong info for the 5 series even though the entire range bar the 520d gained ED last April FFS!), which is why I've always linked to BMW UK's website. It's amazing what one can believe when they believe the incorrect info.

JHMEG wrote: »

So can we say right here right now that the 325 in Ireland doesn't have ED and pollutes 203g!

Wrong again. See above. Its getting wearisome at this stage having to tell you that they do have EfficientDynamics. South Africa generally tends to get newly introduced BMWs quite some time after us. There's no mystery to it really, however much you might wish to think so .

omega man

cashmni1 wrote: »

OP, get the BMW, if you don't mind the lack of space. If you travel back roads, yes rwd and something nice and short. The BMW has an exelent co2 rating for a car with 200bhp. Leave the front wheels do the steering and most of the braking. Let the back wheels do the pushing. There is lots of tourqe too so there won't be that much of a drop from the MPS.

That kinda sums it up for me. The 123D m-sport is top of the list i reckon but i wont rule out a late surge for the 325D SE perhaps? Although I dont really need a bigger car and for a 3 litre it has slightly less bhp than the 123's 2 litre engine, looks good all the same. Is the 320D the 177 bhp version as in the 120D or is it still the older 163??

RobAMerc

Omega man - you'll be disappointed if you think you'll get the 123d M Sport coupe for 42k I am afraid - your talking closer to 50k without leather !

Perhaps come July - maybe some of the VRt aficionado's might be able to tell us ?

Also 200bhp - 50mpg and €150 road tax per year, i would think is farily hard to beat. But I am lucky in that I think the coupe looks great!

omega man

RobAMerc wrote: »

Omega man - you'll be disappointed if you think you'll get the 123d M Sport coupe for 42k I am afraid - your talking closer to 50k without leather !

Perhaps come July - maybe some of the VRt aficionado's might be able to tell us ?

Also 200bhp - 50mpg and €150 road tax per year, i would think is farily hard to beat. But I am lucky in that I think the coupe looks great!

50K now alright but with vrt going from 30% to 16% the drop will be noticable. One of the guys here did up a full bmw price list from july 08 on the new vrt/tax sticky. BMW have promised to reduce prices in line with vrt reductions. Its the 3 door hatchback not the coupe for info.

E92

omega man wrote: »

That kinda sums it up for me. The 123D m-sport is top of the list i reckon but i wont rule out a late surge for the 325D SE perhaps? Although I dont really need a bigger car and for a 3 litre it has slightly less bhp than the 123's 2 litre engine, looks good all the same. Is the 320D the 177 bhp version as in the 120D or is it still the older 163??

The 3.0 litre would have a much better sounding straight 6, and the better refinement that only a straight 6 can have, and it's average fuel consumption is 47.9 mpg, or CO2 emissions of 155 g/km(manual only), so it's not a lot worse than a 123d. It would cost €290 to tax compared to €150 for the 123d.

The 320d has 177 bhp, like the 120d. A 325d SE should cost around €46,900 in July, compared to €53,600 now. The 325d M Sport should fall in price from €59,100 to €51,713. A 320d SE now costs €50,850. A 123d M Sport should cost about €41,800 or thereabouts after July, compared to €50,155 now.

If you look at the VRT thread you will see where I'm getting these figures from. I was the person who created these. There are price lists, complete with the prices for Alfa-Mazda inclusive, as well as Toyota in there of what those cars should cost. There will be the complete list eventually, when I get the time to finish it off.

Drive both and see what you like the most, and go for that!

JHMEG

E92 wrote:

Wrong again. See above. Its getting wearisome at this stage having to tell you that they do have EfficientDynamics.

My options are to believe you or to believe BMW websites. Look at brand new 325's for sale on carzone.. the dealers don't know if they're 3 or 2.5 litre either.

E92 wrote:

it hardly makes sense to import completely different cars.

Huh? It made sense to bring a cheapo 316i all the way from South Africa.

South Africa is also rhd, so if they can delay it there, they can delay it here.

Your condescending tones do nothing to help you.