Advertisement
Where is Report Post on mobile? We've made a slight change, see here
Have your say on the future of the 'Save Draft' feature in this poll
MODs please see this information notice in the mod's forum. Thanks!
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards

Government introduces Postcodes in Ireland..?

191012141518

Comments



  • There’s two sites that provide location codes that could potentially be used as a postcode system in Ireland which have been discussed here previously. www.ticode.ie and www.irishpostcodes.ie. There may well be others that can be compared.

    This is a quick summary of both systems using info and quotes from both websites.

    Description
    "PON Codes were designed....to allow road users in Ireland get better and more efficient use of their SatNav's, particularly those in the logistics and service industries. They can also be used by Postal Services and any service which involves navigating to a particular place at any time of the day or night.”

    "TICode have developed a new national location code.....which can be used for business, personal and a multiple of other uses. The new TICode uses geographic coordinates as its base…..TICode can also be used for satellite navigation, mapping, address identification, database de-duplication and any activity that involves identifying an address in Ireland."

    Code Type
    “A PON Code is a 7 Character Alphanumeric Code which defines geographic position to within +/- 6 meters.”

    "A TICode is a 7 character alphanumeric code that identifies any location in the island of Ireland to an accuracy of 17 square meters."

    Getting Your Code for a location
    TICode has two ways to find your code. You don't have to fill in a form or give private details.
    1. Just type in your address (select the correct one from a list, if necessary), the code appears immediately on a map
    2. If your address is not in their database, or you want to find a non-address place, find it on a map, and drop a marker on or near the point you want a code for and it appears.

    The Ticode uses numbers but doesn’t use letters that look like them. So it uses 0,1, 5 and 8, but doesn’t use O, I, S or B. Even if you enter these letters accidentally, the system automatically corrects them and takes you to the right place. Thus LSG 4SMG (Ticode HQ) automatically corrects to L5G 45MG.

    PON also has two ways to create a code.
    First you are asked to fill in a form with your address, building, type, no. of floors etc. As a minimum, you are required to give an email address and nearest post office to the address to get the code.
    Then:
    1. You can use Latitude and Longitude of a location if you know it or ....
    2. Use a Map with a drop pointer to find your house or building or other location. Drop it on or near the place, confirm and your code appears.

    PON has a separate process/form for businesses and houses.

    The PON code uses some letters and numbers that look alike, particularly when handwritten, like S and 5. For example, the code KI5 74GH is near Ballinasloe, Co Galway and KIS 74GH is near Strokestown, Co Roscommon.


    Code Features & Services
    PON
    - The PON code is automatically emailed to you
    - you can drag it onto your desktop, and get instructions to put in your email signature.
    - There is a trial currently to download PON codes onto particular Garmin satnavs, only available from gpsireland. People can trial these and have been used successfully.
    - The irishpostcodes.ie site has a link to main gpsireland site which provides Hangle software to convert Long/Lat coordinates to PON codes.
    -(Don’t know if PON site is compatible with web-enabled mobile phones. Couldn’t find any info about this on site.)

    TICODE
    - The ticode you select comes with a tag confirming the address for your location and options to mail it to yourself or a group of people, or get instructions to put it into your email signature.
    - You can download your Ticode onto any Garmin or Tom Tom sat nav and work sucessfully
    - If you register with TIcode, (no sign-up fee) it says you can also see nearby houses which have already been mapped and coded - presumably if you need to fine tune the place you’re looking for.
    - “If you are looking for a TICode for a Point of Interest, (such as a garda station, hospital, petrol station, speed camera locations, etc.) you can select the Find Point Of Interest option, put in the details and display a map of the TICode.”
    - TICOde also have a route mapping feature whereby you can enter an address, pick a point on map or else enter TICODEs for your start and destination and it provides navigation details and map of your route to print out.
    - The Ticode site is "set up to be compatible with the browsers on most modern mobile phones. Rather than having a separate web address for the mobile version of the site, it automatically detects if you're using a mobile to connect and tailor the content accordingly."

    Mapping a Code
    PON
    You can enter a code into a section of the website and it will show the location to you on a separate map.

    You can also see local and area versions mapping of the code.

    It shows you links beside a map to view area codes for the 3.5 km squares in Google Earth so you can see what bits of the code refer to.

    TICODE
    You can enter a code into a section of the website and it will show the location to you on a map.

    If you want, you can enter multi- ticodes and these will be mapped together for you. Apparently you are restricted to a certain number of these requests per day.

    Other Comments:

    Both sites have already signed up users and are providing services to them. Codes are provided for free to individuals.

    TICOde says it has over 1 million codes registered already. No numbers are available for PON.

    If people want to comment - feel free.




  • Delphic wrote: »
    Look on the bright side SeanW and see the market possibilities. have a look at the WEB S1TE that GAR YDBH mentioned - ww.ticode.ie - that gives out the unusual names. love some of them. My favourite is C0W PAT5 which is right in the middle of a field - very accurate! Why don't we have some of these? You could have some vanity/funny ones for sale - B1G DAWG, THE 5K1D, MRS R1CH, ALL FA1R, THE BE5T, CAS TLEG. The politicians would love it - HAW HEES, BER T1E1, G1L M0RE, SIN FE1N. Just put them over the right spot and you're LAU GHIN. You could make a FOR TUNE. Just don't sell or give out the ones that might cause 0FF ENCE. :)
    Delphic wrote: »
    I think the above is worth considering - it might be one way of marketing the idea of post codes to people. But just because of these word-codes you say the other system is not a serious offering - that seems a bit dismissive since they're attractive to some and relatively easy to fix or avoid if you don't want them, according to what you've said about your own code.

    I think having a flexible code so that you can adapt it for different purposes - not just limit it for navigation/direction-finding - would be ideal. There are ways of doing this no doubt, but you'd have to start from scratch in working out how to create the code - but it's an interesting challenge.


    Pity the flexible code you were extolling above has now suddenly and radically changed as of tonight. Well done for picking the changes up so quickly to allow for them in your comparisons.

    They will be cursing you because of all the work they have had to do since you pointed these things out including having to change their own HQ code.......- ssshhhh say no more about the remaining oversights or they will have to keep changing it - they are poised as we speak!......... hoping that the alleged 1 million users will start passing on a few ideas through their silent forum!!

    Keep up the good work!




  • Thanks for the feedback, Garypeeps - glad you think it's helpful to you. :D

    Does that mean you're going to change your PON code? Or are you going to keep the letter/number flaw people mentioned?

    Re the site comparisons - one leetle thing. The only reason you have given repeatedly that ticodes weren't a 'serious offer' - to use your words - was because of the word code issue. They no longer appear. So now suddenly you've changed your argument and you're saying 'well actually there are other remaining oversights' but you don't say what they are. Sorry - but I don't buy that - smells like bull poo to me. In the same way that you can't really claim that PON Codes are the only post code in Ireland that have been field tested and are viable. Or that no other viable code exists right now. Total bull poo.

    The flexible code you say I was 'extolling' could not have been changed tonight since it hasn't been created yet! I said it would have to be created from scratch. That means a new one. Not either of the existing ones. Oddly, there are elements of the flexibility I'm talking about in the PON code, but it's not making use of them, in my view.

    Oh - and the other site says a million codes, by the way, not users - alleged or otherwise.

    Leave you to it. My work is done here. ;)




  • Delphic wrote: »
    Garypeeps -the other site says a million codes, by the way, not users - My work is done here. ;)

    Glad you clarified that - divide the square area covered by the code by 17 and that's the number of Codes - may or may not be 1 million!

    If you divide the same area by 6, then you get the number of PON Codes - more codes in fact but not relevant - just marketing for the unaware! You have now answered my question - "marketeer" !

    Where to next? - a silent forum or the wedding at Kana!




  • Eh - Gary/Archimedes - maybe I'm a bit stupid, but I didn't understand that.

    Divide what "square area covered by the code by and that's the number of codes??? And why 6 for PON and 17 for Ticode?


    Am on way to Cana as we speak. Forgot to bring the Perrier though....hopefully I can find a 7-Heaven open. :)


  • Advertisement


  • garydubh wrote: »
    ...Divide the square area covered by the code by 17 and that's the number of Codes - may or may not be 1 million!

    If you divide the same area by 6, then you get the number of PON Codes - more codes in fact but not relevant - just marketing for the unaware!


    Ah - I see now what you’re getting at - you're saying take the whole square area of Ireland, divide it by 17 (because that's the size of one Ticode cell or area ) and you get the total number of codes.

    Whereas with PON codes you divide by 6m cos that’s the size of a PON code.

    Except that doesn't makes sense. Don't think you're comparing like with like.

    A Ticode covers an area of 17 square metres - that's approx an area of 4.1m x 4.1 metres. Which would make them smaller in size than PON codes which you say are approx every 6 metres.

    So in fact there are more Ticodes than PON codes - not less. Don't know about usefulness for marketeers, but that's highly relevant to researchers and analysts. You can have much greater detail with more codes.

    There'd have to be much more than a million codes - surely there's more houses than that in the country? I'd say that it refers to the number of addresses that have been given a Ticode to so far - cos the site says over a million codes and growing - so obviously it's being added to all the time.




  • Delphic wrote: »
    There'd have to be much more than a million codes - surely there's more houses than that in the country? I'd say that it refers to the number of addresses that have been given a Ticode to so far - cos the site says over a million codes and growing - so obviously it's being added to all the time.

    I am too polite to apply your own previously used term - "Bull..." - to what you said above - but it would be appropriate never-the-less.

    You Say "a million codes" "refers to the number of addresses that have been given a Ticodeso far" ...
    - here's a fact for you - any address can be given a code without the occupier or any user ever been involved in anyway at all - that's the benefit of using Geodirectory which many marketing companies would have for their other bulk mail related activities anyhow - so no indicator of the amount of use of their code at all really - more like just playing with words to create impressions!

    I expect people would rather wait and see what the code looks like when its finally finished and has stopped changing to reflect what is said on here. However, I suppose it is great that Boards.ie is being attributed the compliment of contributing "Best Practice From around the world" to the design of their code. I am sure they are also glad that you are here to offer interpretations on their marketing speak!

    In the meantime PON Codes are significantly superior in the way they are engineered and for 6 months have already been actually useable on SatNav's - see screen shots of PON Codes on a Garmin SatNav here




  • Garyd - you keep confusing things between what I said and what you thought I said.

    You've just confirmed my view that a million addresses have been assigned ticodes. Therefore, it's not bull. I didn't say anything about the possible number of users of the code at all. You did.

    As part of your marketing of PON code, you're trying to do the same thing on your site - get people to sign up to match an address with a PON code. So tell us how many addresses have been given a PON code so far? How many users are there? Why not give a comparison? You said in September that "at least 35,000 persons have investigated PON codes" Is that web hits? How many of those signed up? A few hundred? One thousand? Ten thousand? Why not be the first to say exactly how many users are already using location codes like PON?

    You talk about 'playing with words to create impressions' as your view of marketing. And then you go on to claim that "PON codes are significantly superior in the way they are engineered...!!?"

    Eh? What does 'significantly superior' mean? How is it superior? What's the customer benefit? If you're going to make a marketing claim, it should be realistic, appealing to the customer and ideally have a benefit that is unique. However, unlike any other alphanumeric code in the world it would seem, PON codes persist in using letters/numbers that are potentially confusing, open to misinterpretation and could bring someone to the wrong location. I wouldn't call that superior, and it ain't appealing, but it is probably a unique feature!

    Your marketing strategy seems to be - let's ignore that and say something positive and bland about the product instead, mention Garmin regularly, and hope people will automatically buy it. Ford thought the Edsel car was superior and appealing. Guinness thought the same about Guinness Light. Look where they ended up.

    You seem to sneer at people wanting to follow best practice. There's a reason why best practice gets established in an industry - it sets out standards for people to follow and includes a process of refinement to ensure the best product or service possible. The other code people seem willing to do that. By your own words, they have corrected a potential problem in response to feedback.

    Making like an ostrich and ignoring what potential customers are telling you ain't best practice. Or simply telling people that your postcode is superior doesn't change anything - unless you provide proof.

    We already know that both types of codes are downloadable onto satnavs and are being used - we've established that fact. Simply repeating it or putting up screen shots of these doesn't move things along much.

    By the way, I don't think feedback has only come from boards.ie since I've just googled 'garydubh/postcodes' and - surprise, surprise - there you are across the various discussion boards with comments and contributions about postcodes, including this comment: "this has since been shown to be unworkable as users could have a post Code spelling words such as "D0G FACE". Interesting marketing tactic. You make it sound as if some official third party deemed the code unworkable, when in fact, that's simply your opinion as a competitor. And, it's no longer accurate since D0G FACE is not a code.

    Or maybe you're just playing with words to give an impression?




  • The biggest advantage PON codes have is no database for maintineance. Does your system have such a benefit?

    Will it need to be updated every time a new house is built or a new housing estate goes up?

    You haven't given as open an outline of your own system as Gary has here so its hard to tell if your system is database based. Maybe you did say it and I missed it.

    I'd be against a database system. It will inevitably cost a lot to upkeep and cause problems with when to update the system.




  • Delphic - Wow!!!!!!!!!!.............are you ok?
    Must be stressful trying to defend the indefensible
    take a deep breath
    feeling ok now????

    You Said: "wanting to follow best practice......The other code people seem willing to do that. By your own words, they have corrected a potential problem in response to feedback" ............strange that such a critical boo boo (a suggested postcode that spelled words and placenames) took 12 months, an alleged 1 million addresses and your arrival on here all just to identify and, not change, but re-invent the code without solving the problem at all - and all this just in time for you to post your pre-announced comparisons here!!!

    Sorry - Delphic your intentions are now obvious.......

    I do not propose to be goaded into a non stop tit for tat with you on the subject - you will need someone else to QA the code for you - it will not be me.

    Brim4Brim
    Their website uses the Geodirectory database - but the code does not really need it - they have it for other things so they are making use of it!
    The issue really is that in spite of a complete redesign of their code on Friday night last, the same problem still exists and cannot be resolved without using a different code design completely - who knows 3rd time lucky perhaps! For now they just need people to provide the "Best Practice" and identify the problems for them...........

    I would love to help but.....................


  • Advertisement


  • brim4brim/garydubh

    Not sure if you're asking about my idea for a system or the TICode one. You'll need to ask Ticode.ie to get a formal response from them. Gary says they have a silent forum - go make some noise.

    Anyway, you've hit on an important point - one of the biggest disadvantages that PON codes have is no database right now. However, if you look at previous posts from contributors, you'll see that PON are building one - through people logging on for codes and asking tourism sites to use codes on their customer directories. Even though this hasn't been taken up much by companies - the intent to have one is still there. Which they'll need to maintain if it's to be of any use.

    Also as you're aware, PON have stated that they would like to be used by Geodirectory as well - which is I understand a database of all buildings in Republic. So obviously if PON or TIcode want to be linked to a central database of all buildings, then you would need to add new buildings to it - whether houses of offices - just like any database. How they deal with this, you'll need to ask them. Don't think it will be too tricky since the codes will already exist for the area, - it's a predesigned grid with millions of codes - all you do is assign them accordingly to their location.

    You're absolutely right to say that I haven't given as open an outline of my own system. Only because I haven't created it yet. Give me time. PON has been two years in the making and it's still not quite right. Ticodes just ironed out a problem for themselves. Might be a few years before I get around to it. :D Or I might take up woodturning instead.

    You'll find an analysis of the two existing codes TIcode and the PON system a few posts back that looks at their features and benefits. Both are up and running as potential postcodes - though ultimately the Govt may decide to look for something different.

    Gary says that Ticode still haven't solved the problem of accidental words. Whilst I can't find the words he referred to previously, maybe he's using a different system, or has found different ones. What he neglects to mention is that words can be created from his PON code as well. So it's the same problem in both codes. I suspect that any of these alphanumeric codes will inevitably contain some words using a combination of actual letters and numbers that look like them. The objective is to reduce the possibilities as much as you can.

    If you're against a database system because of maintenance - don't worry about it. You won't have to do the work. And you won't have to pay for it either. Just take your free Ticode or PON code (as long as you don't live in Galway or Roscommon) and have fun with your satnav.




  • I know this is a really old post. But is this something that is ever going ahead? It would make getting around much easier!




  • DLiam007 wrote: »
    I know this is a really old post. But is this something that is ever going ahead? It would make getting around much easier!
    There was a proposal from the Government back as far as 2005 for a PostCode. However, the deadline passed 1 year ago and has not been re stated since. Given the shortage of finances right now and the absence of an allocation in the 2009 budget, it is reasonable to deduce that nothing will be happening any time soon. So, as an alternative, the PON Codes you have been reading about in earlier posts were developed and these are at advanced stages in testing in cooperation with Garmin and their SatNavs. So if you are looking for something to help you actually get around - it is almost there!




  • DLiam007 wrote: »
    I know this is a really old post. But is this something that is ever going ahead? It would make getting around much easier!

    On the contrary, it is very likely that the Govt could go ahead with licensing a postcode system this year, since it would cost them little or nothing to do so.

    If that happens, a number of people will be putting their oar in, of which PON codes are but one.

    They have problems with the code which they may or may not want to sort out - similar characters/numbers that are misleading for users. Words appearing in some of their codes like P1G, H0G, P1S5, and even P1S51NG which people may not be happy with and which Gary has said are unacceptable in a code and makes them unworkable and unviable.

    Gary says another code has the same problem despite their attempts to fix it - though gave no evidence of this - but this may be a feature of these kind of codes. So some other solution may have to be found to sort it out or remove it.




  • is it ever gonna happpen:confused: How old is this thread now. Shows how the government don't put a lot of effort into enforcing things other than tax, and new laws on drinking or driving.




  • jaffa20 wrote: »
    is it ever gonna happpen:confused: How old is this thread now. Shows how the government don't put a lot of effort into enforcing things other than tax, and new laws on drinking or driving.

    But the point is that to have a code system that can be successfully used you do not need Government involvement at all - it is not necessary.

    There is no need to wait - once the Government is involved anyhow things get expensive, there are poitical sides to be taken and objections to be made and a long period of "consulting". Aside from the fact that the Government is very busy doing other things right now.

    If there is something reliable and tested around that solves the problem and it works - then just use it - there are no fines for using something that the Government has not provided - otherwise we would not be able to use the internet at all!!!




  • Delphic wrote: »
    I've no doubt the board administrators will pick up on this and remove it.

    What?




  • Never mind - figured that would be dealt with accordingly.

    Met a guy from local US post office today and got into conversation about zipcodes. Fascinating history to them and how they've developed here.




  • We don't need post codes, Why fix something thats not broken? Fix something thats not working like broadband ffs.




  • We don't need post codes, Why fix something thats not broken? Fix something thats not working like broadband ffs.

    I understand what you are saying - if you have to wait for Government to do anything then there will be a long wait.

    However, PostCodes or similar do not need the Government to provide them but the absence of them is similar to restricted access to broadband. Broadband means quicker access to data and web services with less cost. PostCodes capable of being used in vehicles means quicker and more efficient access to deliveries/collections to/from properties anywhere in the country at less cost. This also means anyone - whether in urban or rural areas - can avail of the full benefit of web purchasing and selling services facilitated by broadband - which they are currently unable to do.

    Broadband and Postcodes both need to be "fixed" as you call it but PostCodes if done privately will not need the same financial input and expensive infrastructure. They can be fully implemented without Government funding and at no cost to the user - just benefits!


  • Advertisement


  • garydubh wrote: »
    I understand what you are saying - if you have to wait for Government to do anything then there will be a long wait.

    However, PostCodes or similar do not need the Government to provide them but the absence of them is similar to restricted access to broadband. Broadband means quicker access to data and web services with less cost. PostCodes capable of being used in vehicles means quicker and more efficient access to deliveries/collections to/from properties anywhere in the country at less cost. This also means anyone - whether in urban or rural areas - can avail of the full benefit of web purchasing and selling services facilitated by broadband - which they are currently unable to do.

    Broadband and Postcodes both need to be "fixed" as you call it but PostCodes if done privately will not need the same financial input and expensive infrastructure. They can be fully implemented without Government funding and at no cost to the user - just benefits!


    How would any location or post code help a consumer "avail of the full benefit of web purchasing and selling services facilitated by broadband" any better than the current system? It just makes it easier for the delivery boy but I still get my order so no benefit to me. Anything that goes missing or delayed is usally a result of a cock-up in a depot somewhere. Maybe it benefits the marketing industry more.




  • slimjimmc wrote: »
    How would any location or post code help a consumer "avail of the full benefit of web purchasing and selling services facilitated by broadband" any better than the current system? It just makes it easier for the delivery boy but I still get my order so no benefit to me. Anything that goes missing or delayed is usally a result of a cock-up in a depot somewhere. Maybe it benefits the marketing industry more.

    It all may be ok for you but many couriers will not deliver or pick up for many living in rural areas - too much time and fuel wasted trying to find them. Couriers in Ireland have to deal with failed deliveries due to non unique addresses and their tariffs, therefore, include a consideration for these problems.

    One well known UK web sales company employs 10 people just to resolve address issues when delivering to Ireland - who do you think pays for the manpower and the time?

    Post Codes would resolve this and reduce costs as well as improving delivery times - not to mention the fact that emergency services would get to the right place quicker.

    As for marketing - well discussed on here already! Most junk mail gets in your letter box without any address at all and perhaps even at that hand of the Post man - I returned 3 peices of unaddressed junk mail to the postman only yesterday! Certainly Post Codes built using address databases would assist in marketing but a geo code such as a PON Code does not need an address database!

    The benefits of PostCodes in Ireland are well documented and recognised - they are not a requirement for sorting mail but they are an absolute necessity for logistics and vehicle based services for which there are 0.5 million commercial vehicles using our roads in Ireland!




  • They're not an 'absolute necessity' - they would be nice to have, but they're not essential for logistics and delivery people. Introducing postcodes, not just limited ones for delivery and logistics, will take time to implement, but it is the best route forward. Choosing a limited option is starting off from the wrong point and will only put off the inevitable, and create more confusion for consumers and businesses alike. Talking to people here in the States, zipcodes have become part of the national fabric and are used for many purposes not just the relatively narrow ones of navigation or delivery businesses. Linking them to databases may take time, but are much more worthwhile in the long run - that has been the experience in US. The investment of money and time into doing that is more than repaid from the revenues generated as a result and there is little or no cost to Govt/taxpayer - public and private sector benefit.




  • ZIP Codes are one of several 50's and 60's developed Post Code systems put in place solely for delivering mail. They are based on postal delivery sorting offices, areas and routes to which a list of addresses is added to create a database. As a result of development and changes, the ZIP Codes allocated to addresses may have to keep changing. Also the ZIP Codes themselves have grown from 5 to 11 characters but most in the USA only remember and use the first 5 characters. A 5 Charcater ZIP Code is only a general area and not suitable for SatNav's, delivery or logistics. The ongoing administrative problems associated with ZIP codes (and similar codes) are highlighted here

    A Geographic code created independent of an address database does not suffer from these problems and locations that are not properties can also have a code - mobile clinics, car boot sales, point to point races, outdoor music events, construction sites, agricultural shows, ploughing matches, sporting events - the list is endless............




  • In an earlier post somone stated that with respect to the introduction of postcodes in Ireland:
    "They're not an 'absolute necessity' - they would be nice to have, but they're not essential for logistics and delivery people"

    This opinion is not shared by the experts in the logistics area. You would imagine that the Irish Association of International Express Carriers (IAIEC) - which includes people like DHL, FedEx, TNT and UPS - would know what they are talking about! In their submission for sustainable travel in Ireland, PostCodes are No.1 on their list of recommendations - see here




  • Thank you. This reinforces the point that they're not an absolute necessity as you stated. If they were, the business wouldn't be able to operate at all. But it does operate and relatively efficiently. If the delivery and logistics sector believes it could be more efficient with postcodes, that's a different argument for efficiency and added value, but it's not an 'absolute necessity' as you have asserted. It's a recommendation from a report. I'm sure a logistics and delivery representative body would recommend the introduction of postcodes if it benefits their members and customers. It doesn't make it an essential for society in Ireland. But I don't think the views of one body representing one particular sector should set the agenda for what kind of a national postcode system we have in Ireland, nor should the commercial aspirations of a satnav distributor and one of their distributors, bluntly. This is too important. It needs Govt input and regulation that makes it multi-functional and accessible to all within fair and reasonable commercial terms if it needs to be self-financing and sustainable.




  • 1. An Post says they do not need a PostCode at all for sorting mail - this can be done by OCR and Geodirectory - agreed by other National postal services globally. With all the postmen on the ground they do not need a Code for delivering either, although new postsmen in rural areas need a lot of route training which a navigation code could assist with if available.

    2. Private companies who will shortly get a license to handle private mail would not need a PostCode to sort mail if they had OCR and were allowed free access to Geodirectory like An Post. However, even if they used this to sort, as they do not have dedicated Postmen on daily routes, they must use courier type techniques to deliver mail for which they will need a Navigation Code as the local knowledge of the postman will not be available to them.

    3. As stated in my last post -the logistics community need a navigation code - independent research in the UK has indicated the cost saving benefits.

    4. The services community need a code - Furniture/White Goods delivery, utility services, house repairs, mobile car repairs etc etc - independent research in the UK has indicated the cost saving benefits.

    There are 0.5 million commercial vehicles in Ireland which include logistics, couriers and service operators (Not including Vets, Mobile Medical Services, 1st Responders, sales persons, taxis etc etc) - a lot more of these than postmen!

    We should mention also the statisticians - the NSB who in their submission to Government on Postcodes (Extract from NSB Quoted here) stated that if the intended Post Code was a Geo Code - it would have many advantages.

    Oh I nearly forgot - what about the marketing people (The "marketeers")....... they want whatever code is put into use to be linked to an address database as only this allows them to individually address bulk and marketing mail. They also need the Government to support it so that An Post's "arm will be twisted" into using it if they are to be used for distributing the bulk mail!

    One such bulk mail/marketing company has its own postcode proposal mentioned here previously.




  • 3. As stated in my last post -the logistics community need a navigation code - independent research in the UK has indicated the cost saving benefits.

    4. The services community need a code - Furniture/White Goods delivery, utility services, house repairs, mobile car repairs etc etc - independent research in the UK has indicated the cost saving benefits.

    This is more of a"want" rather than a "need" imo. They want it as a means of helping to reduce costs, fair enough but they don't need it to provide their service. Plenty of people in rural areas seem to have no problem getting fuel deliveries, plumbers or tow trucks for donkey's-years simply working off directions and landmarks. I appreciate a code would be useful to certain industries (if the customer knows it - a significant weakness of any system) but I'm not convinced it is essential.

    How would anyone know the co-ordinates of their current position without the aid of a certain Sat-Nav (not every one has or wants one)? If such a person came across the scene of an accident on a road how do suggest they advise the co-ords to the Emergency Services if they don't know them? My guess is that they would do what they do at present and provide directions and landmarks.




  • slimjimmc wrote: »
    This is more of a"want" rather than a "need" imo. They want it as a means of helping to reduce costs, fair enough but they don't need it to provide their service.

    They need it to provide the same service at the same cost to all potential clients in all areas. I guess these companies know best what they need to grow their capability in Ireland and operate efficiently. Discussing the difference between the words "Want" and "Need" is really not for this thread. I can only suggest that they would not be asking for a postcode if they did not feel they needed it!
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Plenty of people in rural areas seem to have no problem getting fuel deliveries, plumbers or tow trucks for donkeys years simply working off directions and landmarks. I appreciate a code would be useful to certain industries (if the customer knows it - a significant weakness of any system) but I'm not convinced it is essential..

    If you drive as part of your job in Ireland you would appreciate the requirement. With respect to "Donkeys Years" - even the donkeys nowadays may now not be local or even Irish with associated local knowledge!

    Finding your code is not difficult - free for anyone using the web - or someone else's if don't have access and with over 45% web access and growing - everyone knows "a man who does"! (someone who has web access that is)
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    How would anyone know the co-ordinates of their current position without the aid of a certain Sat-Nav (not every one has or wants one)? If such a person came across the scene of an accident on a road how do suggest they advise the co-ords to the Emergency Services if they know know them? My guess is that they would do what they do at present and provide directions and landmarks.

    There are several issues raised here:

    1. Approximately 1 million SatNav's will be in use in Ireland by the end of 2010. (In the UK there are already over 14 million SatNav users) By the end of 2012, GPS will be available widely in all mobile phones as standard. Mobile phones already have over 100% penetration in Ireland.

    2. Knowing the coordinates or location of a breakdown or accident is a seperate matter. Helped of course if you have a GPS or SatNav. However, there is seperate EU legislation which Ireland has signed up to but not yet implemented requiring vehicles to have an emergency location transponder (GPS & GSM/GPRS) - capable of being both automatically and manually activated in the case of an accident. However, this is a different matter entirely!


  • Advertisement


  • Spot on SlimJimm - there is a world of difference between 'need' and 'want'. And of course it's relevant on this thread - determining why a service is an absolute necessity (which is the exact phrase garydubh used) or a nice-to-have want is central to what is being debated here.

    Funnily enough, the more detail Gary D adds to his argument, the more he confirms the points that Slimjimmc and myself are making. His last couple of posts seem to indicate that postcodes have a relevance and societal importance that requires a greater oversight and needs analysis than his own commercial interests. For example, in earlier posts he was against what bulkmail companies would like to have and the use of a database address system, but now cites them as another grouping that need to have a postcode. He also say that new postal companies will need to have a postcode database system in order to operate even though he says a database system is difficult to maintain.

    If these are the kinds of demands and criteria that different types of companies and organisations have, then this starts to dicatate the kind of code that should be developed. And the current one is not necessarily fit for purpose.

    Slimjimmc - you made an important point - Pond geocoordinates can't be found 'without the aid of a certain satnav'. The system is far too limited for something that is needed by a range of organisation and activities.

    The black box for cars has been mentioned recently in the context of eCall the system that cannot be implemented due to lack of State GPS facilities - an MEP was giving out about it. (Irish Times article in the last week) This could be linked into a geo-ordinate code if one was being used.


Advertisement