Revolutionary Website

Feelgood

Just wondering would anyone be interested in forming some sort of a web development club with a view to building and designing a revolutionary website?.

After a few months on boards, I have noticed that there are no shortage of intelligent,imaginative and creative virtual people out there (Wimmin excluded). My thinking is that if we all bashed heads we could come up with a pretty decent website.

Heck even if it was a load of giblets we could probably have a bit of fun while doing it?. Hosting would be courtesy of my good self, all I ask for in return is brain power..

Goodshape

Wimmin excluded?


Not entirely sure what you're offering here. Unfortunately Boards.ie doesn't really give you a good insight into a persons character or background, so forgive me for not jumping at your generous proposal straight off the bat.

I'm not sure I'd be interested in this in anycase (though you never know) but the obvious questions that come to mind at this point :

- As the instigator, what skills are your bringing to the table yourself? (aside from hosting).

- Anything online we can look at to get an idea of your previous experience and/or thought/design/development process?

- Any experience doing anything like this before?

- Where are you based and what sort of a 'group' are you thinking of? Real life meet-ups or just online collaboration?

- Are you aware of the many facilities, events, groups and meet ups that already exist in the Irish web development scene? Is this similar to any of those?


...sorry if the tone sounds unduly negative, but like I said - Boards.ie isn't (imo) the best way to judge character or intention, particularly when you're a relatively new user who (as far as I can see from a quick scan) hasn't posted in this forum once in your past one hundred posts.

forbairt

As Goodshape said pretty much

Maybe join an existing community and make it better ...

Net communities are a dime a dozen

(hosting the community is cheap ... VERY cheap)

Whats in it for you ? [ ... has to be asked ... ]

DJB

I'd be reluctant to bring on a partner who's just going to provide hosting. Most designers/developers have access to servers anyway. Like Goodshape said... what can you bring to the table... an idea for a website even? I've a bunch of ideas for websites/businesses and have put together a couple of teams to work on some of them. I still have a few of them knocking around my head and would be interested in getting another team together. I understand what you are trying to do and yes, it could be worthwhile and fun!

As both suggested so far, maybe try and get into the community a little more. Maybe the IWF meetup would be of interest:

http://www.irishwebmasterforum.com/general-chat/2977-proposal-for-dublin-city-meet-drink.htm

So, do you have an idea for a site you'd like to do? What is your skill set, background, etc?

Rgds,

Dave

Bob the Builder

I like your thinking, but I believe a company should be formed, and hosting expenses paid outta there with equal ownership of the company, and equal work given to different people.

Million euro ideas don't just pop out while your at a meeting or online conference or whatever, they have to be intelligently beaten out, and then brought along stages to more meetings.

Personally, i am reluctant to do such stuff without guarantees - which i feel are not being catered for inj your proposal. But I do like the idea.

Feelgood

Jasus I think I just posted in the Skeptics forum?.

Firstly I'm not trying to sell you anything and the offer of hosting wasn't some sort of a ploy to get you all onboard, why do people always get suspicious when you offer something for free?. Maybe I'm just a generous guy, looking to feed an interest?.

Right well my backround is well rounded enough, I'm basically a server / network specialist with the biggest I.T. company in the world, key skills areas are iseries(Os400), pseries(AIX) and Wintel platforms. I also do a lot with Lotus Domino, Linux, Oracle/Sap and am currently working in Irelands only Class A datacentre and have worked on a good few high scale projects the most recent one being Irelands most powerful computer http://www.heanet.ie/press/Supercomputer1rt.pdf

So to answer your question I am not some dude trying to scam you into designing websites for me. Basically I am like yourselves a guy that is interested in technology and I.T. as a whole. I'm not a web developer by trade though obviously have an interest in web servers / development etc etc. So let me make that clear I'm not a professional web developer!. I do have a lot of collaboration experience however but not a whole pile in this web development arena.

So whats my motivation?. Put it this way, how many hours a week do you spend on boards.ie??. Say on average 8?. Would you not prefer to spend half of that time doing something creative and constructive that has some sort of end result, while maybe being fun in the process?.

I'm basically looking for an online collaboration group to bang out idea's for websites, do a few funs projects etc from a hobbiest perspective as it is something I enjoy. The other thing I will admit to is that I might steal some of your knowledge, but you would be welcome to steal mine too...Thats it period really.

Yes I have had a few random idea's for websites but nothing concrete, partly my reason for wanting to get some kindof club together is so that people can tell me my idea's are ****e.....

Feelgood

How about an experimental vBulletin website that mimics boards.ie and put it online for say a period of 6 -8 weeks?. Invite all the boards masses to join up except give them all mod capabilities to see what the result would be??.

Might make for interesting conversation on boards.ie?. Also be a bit of a laugh...

Just an idea...

miju

organised chaos would more than likely be the end result i likey that idea alot feelgood

Feelgood wrote: »

So whats my motivation?. Put it this way, how many hours a week do you spend on boards.ie??. Say on average 8?. Would you not prefer to spend half of that time doing something creative and constructive that has some sort of end result, while maybe being fun in the process?.

not being funny here. i know your relatively new but have you not noticed that boards.ie is constructive, is fun and most definitely is creative too?

Feelgood

miju wrote: »

not being funny here. i know your relatively new but have you not noticed that boards.ie is constructive, is fun and most definitely is creative too?

You right there miju, but the thing is that with boards.ie the only skils I get to use are my typing skills and my grammer skills!. (However the latter is pretty ****e).

Being computer enthusiasts, most of use have an interest in web development, open source, 3D animation, audio creation, hacking etc. Only thing is that when you work in services end of I.T. you only really get to do this kindof stuff as a hobby really.

There are a savage amount of I.T. heads in Ireland and extremely experienced and good people at that. Wouldn't it be nice to have somewhere to go, not just to discuss your interests with likeminded individuals but to actually collarborate and put your ideas into action.

You could also have some sort of facility for the younger generation (13 - 18 year olds) where they can come and learn about all aspects of computers and be able to ask questions or learn from the more experienced member of the community. By community I mean active community, not just a place to talk but a place where things get done. Heck it might steer them away from knacker drinking or drugs...

Bob the Builder

Well you do have to give us some allowance to be skeptical.

I would also prefer to think that we wouldn't be just setting up a vBulletin to steal from Boards.ie, considering that most of us, if not all of us like Boards.ie the way it is, maybe a tad slow, but if they can't improve on it, how can we? And I wouldn't dare backstab Boards like that.

People like the idea of getting free hosting, and all that, but i must admit my first impressions were that you would only give free hosting, and that you wouldnt bother helping in any other way, and still have your bit of the cake.

• Also, where would the profits go?
• and will the work be equally divided?
• You know how easy it is to come across a bad person who will constantly moan and argue with other team members?
• Should we create a website, what will it's license be? .... Will it be to scamper and make every penny we can get or will it be open source?
• Will all team members be motivated?
• Will we all agree on the same thing?
• How many of us will there be?
• Who will control finances?
• Who will be in charge of PHP development, and who will be in charge of Graphics Design. Will everyone want to do graphics design, and nobody want to PHP? What will be our plan of action in that event?
• Will we present our work as PHP/MySQL or will it actually be a website with a user interface?
• Who will create and distribute modules . ...and will they be free?
• Will we meet over Skype/MSN conference, or will it be a face to face meeting in a room everyone together.

These are all the questions, well most of them anyway, that come to mind when i think of your project, and until these questions are satisfactorily answered, I just could not enter myself into a Long term team.

Maybe, if you could present your answers in a PDF/Word file, or at least respond to them, it would be great.

This is the way many scripts that you find on Sourceforge are decided upon, in a forum somewhere, even tho, I am aware that it is a website we're debating rather than an application that you would find on Sourceforge/Hotscripts.

I do see this project going somewhere, and even if it was just a hobby, or even if everything failed, at least we could laugh at it. But in the mean time, please excuse our skeptical views.

To be quite honest with you, I think a post on the Irishwebmasterforum would be well worth it, but before then, you need to get a lot of stuff sorted or else your going to find a lot more skeptics.

Btw, I hope you were joking about the women, because even tho there are few wimmin web developer/designers in ireland, I think "wimmin" are very productive when it comes to things like this. ...Wimmin are actually better than men at certain things believe it or not!

~Nev

Feelgood

Jesus Nev, I am really impressed with your questions but your missing the point here. I'm not trying to put a multinational together.

Firstly I'm not interested in profit, annual accounts, market shares, copyright etc etc but funnily enough you and I are probably on the same wavelength. By the sounds of things you, like I have been working in I.T. so long that you have been brainwashed by procedures, ethics, project plans - ZZzzzzz. Instead of all that crap I am trying to get a group together to focus on the fun and creative side of I.T, the stuff we dont get to do anymore.... You remember that side don't you, the reason you wanted to get into technology in the first place?. The Spectrum and the commodore 64?.

Instead of thinking of it as a "company", think of it as a band. Bands get together, they all have different skills, bass, drums, vocals, guitars. They experiment with different technologies and methods to produce something different and creative. They aren't in it for the money, they are there because they enjoy the creative process and experimenting really. They can achieve something that they couldn't achieve on their own because they work as a group and there is great satisfaction from the end result.

Well thats what I am looking for - a band. When I said revolutionary, I meant something that hasn't been done before. I'm not looking for money or profit at all, if I was why would I be offering something for free?.

Feelgood

nevf wrote: »

I would also prefer to think that we wouldn't be just setting up a vBulletin to steal from Boards.ie, considering that most of us, if not all of us like Boards.ie the way it is, maybe a tad slow, but if they can't improve on it, how can we? And I wouldn't dare backstab Boards like that.

~Nev

And just to highlight I'm not into plagiarism either, that idea like I've highlighted would be merely to experiment with the concept of everyone being a moderator, I'm not looking to recreate boards at all. Thats hardly revoluntionary or creative!.

miju

TBH i think it would be a disaster. it will only take one fool (and god knows boards get a fair few) to sign up automatically get mod status and delete every thread on the site if they were so inclined

Feelgood

miju wrote: »

TBH i think it would be a disaster. it will only take one fool (and god knows boards get a fair few) to sign up automatically get mod status and delete every thread on the site if they were so inclined

You could be right there alright, we could then experiment with the concept of no moderators?.

Anyways, this isn't my concrete idea for a website or anything. Just throwing ideas out that we could start with for fun etc.

You feckers are bloody starting to make me skeptic now, damn you!.

miju

thats our job, lollers

Feelgood

Yeah anyone would think that my idea's were all just a front to get
ye to sign up to scienctology or something...And I swear they aint:rolleyes:...

Now anyone thats interested PM me and we will run through the compulsory personality test required to be a member...

Gordon

Heh. I like the idea, it's nice in theory. I mean the general idea, the open sourceness of it.

As for the specific example of a forum to see what would happen if.. - I love social experimenting and am working on two mini sites on that principle, funding them myself when I am finished and most likely won't receive a profit from advertising on the site, I'm just going to enjoy putting it out there and seeing what happens.

So, I'm interested. I would say my ideas but that would defeat the purpose of them.. Hence, I don't have any new ideas at the moment.

Feelgood

Gordon wrote: »

Heh. I like the idea, it's nice in theory. I mean the general idea, the open sourceness of it.

As for the specific example of a forum to see what would happen if.. - I love social experimenting and am working on two mini sites on that principle, funding them myself when I am finished and most likely won't receive a profit from advertising on the site, I'm just going to enjoy putting it out there and seeing what happens.

So, I'm interested. I would say my ideas but that would defeat the purpose of them.. Hence, I don't have any new ideas at the moment.

Alast a likeminded individual!. Interested in what you are putting together Gordon, definitely give us a shout to have a nosey when you are near completion...

I think people think I am just looking to get a couple of coders together or something, but I am not. I guess I should've been a bit more clear on my intentions on this one.Web development has many many stages and this isn't limited to just coding a couple of pages of a site.

Ideally I would like to see a community with the following.

- Linux / Windows, Email admins
- Webserver heads, apache etc
- Coders, HTML, PHP, ASP, Flash whichever!
- DB's, MYSQL, Sqlserver, Oracle,
- Hackers, white hats, penetration testers, etc.
- Network specialists.
- Audio creation, video streaming.
- 3D animators, graphics design enthusiasts.
- Games programmers

Now if you can visualise what a hell of a community we would have if we joined forces and dived into creating something with that type of team. I think it would be the **** to be quite honest.

The other end of things would be that, people who wanted to dedicate some time to this wouldn't have to be an expert at anything. As long as they had an interest and a willingness to learn the guys who are experts could share the knowledge etc.

To sum up, you would have a bunch or people enjoying the lighter side of I.T., meeting likeminded people, possibly making a few new buds and having interesting discussions while at the same time doing creative and interesting projects. Last but not least theres a good chance that you might have some fun, get to show off your skills but better yet you get to learn new skills.

Really dont see what there is to be skeptic about!. Anyways, I have as enthusiastic as I can about this. Hopefully you get where I am coming from at this stage.

Will see how the rest of this thread fairs out and we will work from there!.

Bob the Builder

Feelgood wrote: »

Jesus Nev, I am really impressed with your questions but your missing the point here. I'm not trying to put a multinational together.

Well, i like the idea that it would be a "club", and so therefore i believe that a constitution is in order before we have some muppet come in and destroy the place.

Firstly I'm not interested in profit, annual accounts, market shares, copyright etc etc but funnily enough you and I are probably on the same wavelength.

So it would be a club, and by no means a business. I think thats a great idea and clears up a lot of problems which I would have thought of. If the club becomes "estabalished", i think it would be good to do a small bit of fundraising to fund purchase of applications/domains etc. but besides that, no money changes hands whatsoever, and now that we have a volunteer to provide hosting, I think it's a great start.

By the sounds of things you, like I have been working in I.T. so long that you have been brainwashed by procedures, ethics, project plans - ZZzzzzz. Instead of all that crap I am trying to get a group together to focus on the fun and creative side of I.T, the stuff we dont get to do anymore.... You remember that side don't you, the reason you wanted to get into technology in the first place?. The Spectrum and the commodore 64?

I haven't been in the biz that long and to be quite honest, i'm peeved off with having being expolited on occassions where about 4 of us would be on a team, 2 would do the work and the other two take all the credit. I don't want to do it, unless we have guarantee's that this wouldn't happen. And if it is a club, i don't believe it will happen because nobody will have anymore to gain than anyone else.

I must admit I do like the idea of a groupware suite, and a nice idea that we could just all chip in for the craic, and laugh at our final idea, whether it worked or not. It's an oppurtunity for us to build up experience, and an oppurtunity for noobs to learn the proper way. I remember how I learnt it, i was thrown in at the deep end and I hadn't a choice. But when I used to see the outcomes, I was really proud of myself. I would really like to get back and actually begin to enjoy web development, and forget the deadlines and the doom and gloom of web development.

They aren't in it for the money, they are there because they enjoy the creative process and experimenting really. They can achieve something that they couldn't achieve on their own because they work as a group and there is great satisfaction from the end result.

Well thats what I am looking for - a band. When I said revolutionary, I meant something that hasn't been done before. I'm not looking for money or profit at all, if I was why would I be offering something for free?.

Bang on the bullet. I agree totally.

As miju has already stated, we get a lot of muppets and this place is like a mine-field to say the least. If we do start this "project", can we get the hosting immediatley, so we can get everything running.
We're going to have to get "devise" a plan which will eliminate idiots, and from there, we can actually start something proper.

Another quickie question. Will it be Boards Web Club(or something like that) or will it be similar to the www.linux.ie organisation format?

~NevF

miju

Feelgood wrote: »

Ideally I would like to see a community with the following.

- Linux / Windows, Email admins
- Webserver heads, apache etc
- Coders, HTML, PHP, ASP, Flash whichever!
- DB's, MYSQL, Sqlserver, Oracle,
- Hackers, white hats, penetration testers, etc.
- Network specialists.
- Audio creation, video streaming.
- 3D animators, graphics design enthusiasts.
- Games programmers

now this sounds like an idea that i'd be potentially be very interested in

aidan_walsh

If this gathers support, perhaps you could think of taking it to the Forums board as a subforum of here?

Feelgood

nevf wrote: »

As miju has already stated, we get a lot of muppets and this place is like a mine-field to say the least. If we do start this "project", can we get the hosting immediatley, so we can get everything running.
We're going to have to get "devise" a plan which will eliminate idiots, and from there, we can actually start something proper.

Another quickie question. Will it be Boards Web Club(or something like that) or will it be similar to the www.linux.ie organisation format?

~NevF

I totally understand your concerns Nev, and fair play for highlighting the possible pro's and con's, you just highlighted about 10 things I would never thought of and its guys exactly like you that we need to get this thing up and running!. Uncle Feelgood needs you!.

Basically this my first step, trying to get a clan together and we can work from there. Don't look at me as the godfather or anything, I have no experience at putting this sort of thing together. I am just working off my train of thought really.

If I can get a clan together, hosting can be more or less immediate (2-3 days). I will also leave it upto the clan to decide on domain names, hosting plans and everything else so that will be the first group exercise.

I realise you concerns on muppetry, I think we need to establish who has certain levels of expertise in certain areas and who has a concrete interest and not just acting the bollocks. Don't know how to go about that do.

What I'll say its I don't want it to turn into a chain of command like boards, everyone in this community will have equal status, expert or non expert. Man or woman (was joking about the wimmin thing in the 1st thread by the way)

Oh all members will have an email address @ourdomain.xxx and there will be an online chat room facility for collaboration.

tigerforest

just a suggestion but as its an irish forum here what about setting up a site where the results fixtures tables etc for all irish sports could be updated and used as a referrence point by other websites, where they could pay for subscriptions and would be appealing to get advertisments to pay for itself?

Feelgood

tigerforest wrote: »

just a suggestion but as its an irish forum here what about setting up a site where the results fixtures tables etc for all irish sports could be updated and used as a referrence point by other websites, where they could pay for subscriptions and would be appealing to get advertisments to pay for itself?

Not a bad idea at all tiger, you sure something like this isn't already in existence though?

Feelgood

aidan_walsh wrote: »

If this gathers support, perhaps you could think of taking it to the Forums board as a subforum of here?

Aidan,

You being the webmaster mod, whats your personal take on my suggestions??

tigerforest

dont know never really looked much into it but have done a few sports sites and there wasnt anything that i could grap a feed from or a table from to get the results. Also i think if it was to be a subscription type site then due to the vast number of clubs that could avail of it, it could be made available very cheaply which would suit everyone.

Bob the Builder

aidan_walsh wrote:

If this gathers support, perhaps you could think of taking it to the Forums board as a subforum of here?

Yes, that was something that I was thinking.

Feelgood wrote: »

I totally understand your concerns Nev, and fair play for highlighting the possible pro's and con's, you just highlighted about 10 things I would never thought of and its guys exactly like you that we need to get this thing up and running!. Uncle Feelgood needs you!

Haha, right Uncle, I think that this idea is a rolling stone and is gathering a lot of moss. I see it as having good potential. I belive that if we're to follow on from here, that the six/seven us that have been active in this thread, along two or three other people who we feel may have interest should get together and have a Skype(or something alike) conversation some night during the week to actually beat this out, and decide how best to move onto the next stage, and how to deal with problems which may arise. But until then, we bash out everything on Boards, and when the time comes, we will create an agenda comprising of everything that has been said here, and we will discuss everything further and assign roles.

Basically this my first step, trying to get a clan together and we can work from there. Don't look at me as the godfather or anything, I have no experience at putting this sort of thing together. I am just working off my train of thought really.

Likewise, i am working off my trail of thought, even though, I have a little bit of experience regarding teams like this.

I think that we should begin working over the next week with a small bunch of people, approx. 10-15 people max. and get a proper email, groupware etc system in place. I mean proper as in "Start as you mean to finish".

If we have a perfect system in place, we can then begin inviting mor e people in, and we won't have to be making any big changes to the platforms, and it will have to be secure as well, in case you get some smart ass who wants to try and crack the server just so he can run into school the next day bragging about how he cracked a server (oh my gawd!)

Currently, I imagine a userbase of approx. 150-250 users of varying interests. Can your server/hosting deal with that many hardcore IT fanatics running a million different applicatioins at once on your server.

If I can get a clan together, hosting can be more or less immediate (2-3 days). I will also leave it upto the clan to decide on domain names, hosting plans and everything else so that will be the first group exercise.

Thats, once again, excellent. has anybody got any names that they would like the organisation/club to be named. it doesn't have to be an abbreviation, it can be anything ye want it to be. Once again, all names will be considered, and the best name wins!

I realise you concerns on muppetry, I think we need to establish who has certain levels of expertise in certain areas and who has a concrete interest and not just acting the bollocks. Don't know how to go about that do.

I believe that for a user to become part of the group, they must demonstrate knowledge in a category relevant to the site. A user may join as a guest, but to grow into a member, they have to be able complete an assignment, which will be reviewed my a higher up member of the website, and then they will retrieve access.

For those who know nothing about web design(or their chosen subject), we will offer tutorials, and if they pass a series of tests, and satisfy their "Tutor" that they want to learn, we will offer them a place as a member.

After a trial period of 1month, after becoming a member, they will receive their own email address.

I do realise that to code a system like this will be a pain in the arse, but if we only introduce features one-by-one as time permits, it will make things easier, and also could be assignments for wannabe members. I believe that such a system, will provide plenty of work for all involved, and will make sure that there is nobody joining up because they just feel like it.

Everyone will be dedicated/motivated, and should the oppurtunity arise that Microsoft Ireland or Google Ireland wish to sponsor a competition, or something like that, they group of people they will be giving the competition/prize to will be a professional. If a charity/non-profit organisation wants a website designed, or someone to present a tutorial to their staff about some topic, they will be able to do ask our organisation for help/volunteers.

What I'll say its I don't want it to turn into a chain of command like boards, everyone in this community will have equal status, expert or non expert. Man or woman (was joking about the wimmin thing in the 1st thread by the way). Oh all members will have an email address @ourdomain.xxx and there will be an online chat room facility for collaboration.

I believe that there should be some chain of command kept that will allow problems to be dealt with effectively, but not a chain of command like there is in the army, rather one with a chairperson, a committee, a few moderators to keep control. I don't think the email address should be given to members until they have proven themselves.

I know my ideas sound very facist but such a system will work imo. For numerous reasons. It gets rid of people who are not willing to advance their knowledge. It makes the organisation exclusive, as if it was a guild, because people will have knowledge in what their doing. We could offer little challenges to each other, etc. etc.

My ideas are only suggestions by the way, and I have no problem if someone disagrees with me totally, but I'm just putting these things to the forefront as mere ideas.

Bob the Builder

tigerforest wrote: »

just a suggestion but as its an irish forum here what about setting up a site where the results fixtures tables etc for all irish sports could be updated and used as a referrence point by other websites, where they could pay for subscriptions and would be appealing to get advertisments to pay for itself?

That is, once again, an idea which is worth a peek, and would be a nice assignment if the website happens.

tigerforest

what about seting up and irc channel would be a good place for the discussions and then could also be used further down the line for supporting applications.

Webmonkey

I may be interested in this. Just going to see how this turns out