Why do people get married?

hogstheduvet

I have been with my partner for 8 years, and I want to get married. He doesn't.

I'm not sure exactly why I want to get married, I can't come up with a list of reasons why and explain why it makes any difference to be married or not, but I do want to get married. It's not really a religious thing either, we have already been living together for quite some time, but I think I would like a church wedding.

But he doesn't want to get married. He doesn't see any difference between living with someone, and getting married to someone. He says getting married doesn't change how we love each other, which you can't really argue with. A piece of paper won't change our relationship, which again, is true. Getting married doesn't mean you will stay together for ever, and it doesn't mean he loves me any less.

I don't know why I want to get married, I just do. I always have seen myself getting married, and he says he never seen himself getting married. All his points are valid, so, if the religious aspects aren't an issue, why do people get married?

sillo

Tradition. Media. Cultural upbringing. Almost every romantic movie, tv show, book, or media of any kind glorifies it (admittedly more in the past than now). Commitment, values, religion and family input.

There are so many influencing factors that it's not hard to see why an individual may not understand their own need for marriage.

mikemac

For tax reasons though this isn't so advantageous anymore thanks to Charlie McCreevy

JC 2K3

Social Conditioning. You've been raised with the romantic idea that you will get married and that it will be the happiest day of your life, hence you want to do it.

CrazyNoob

I'd also say that its a public declaration of how you both feel in front of your family and friends and a day to celebrate that

Whyner

hogstheduvet wrote: »

A piece of paper won't change our relationship

I would have thought it did.........aren't you seen differently by the government and the law....

But yes I agree with him, same reason I'm confused as to why people baptise their children when they don't have any religious beliefs. It's part of fitting in and following what everyone else does.

Me, I'd like a massive party with all my friends but think it's a bit bonkers to be spending 40k or thereabouts on a full blown wedding.

I've enjoyed weekends away with partners or friends more than weddings, I'm just saying...

Perhaps people need to think of new ways on how to celebrate their relationship.

Saying that I'm a guy so my opinions will go straight out the window when my big day arrives!

LegacyUser

it's a public announcement of your committment to each other. Like it or not, it does seem to impact on peoples relationships. It's also a protection for any children you might have together. Church or registry office, it's up to youss.

Wibbs

I've read studies which found marriage does change the dynamic of a relationship. If nothing else, if you're living together, there is more option of an out, an escape. Even with divorce, the marriage papers will tend to make people think twice before just walking.

jdivision

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Social Conditioning. You've been raised with the romantic idea that you will get married and that it will be the happiest day of your life, hence you want to do it.

+1

hogstheduvet

It's not the big party - I don't even want that. Would quite like to go away and do it, or just something small with just close family and friends.

Quite depressed about it actually. I never thought I'd be 8 years with someone, and trying to persuade them to marry me. Which isn't what I want at all, for all the obvious reasons. I try not to bring it up, but its hard.

Nevyn

There is a difference for legal reasons in relations to property,inheritance rights, next of kin and if you ever have children.

Lux23

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Social Conditioning. You've been raised with the romantic idea that you will get married and that it will be the happiest day of your life, hence you want to do it.

Thats it. Although its no harm if thats what you want.

Blackpitts

Wibbs wrote: »

I've read studies which found marriage does change the dynamic of a relationship. If nothing else, if you're living together, there is more option of an out, an escape. Even with divorce, the marriage papers will tend to make people think twice before just walking.

It's true, the "no marriage" thing is a easy escape so you'd think that it is a big con...but sometimes it's also a pro. Knowing that could fend at any time, people are always on their own toes and the relationship can be kept healthy (sometimes).
The Marriage is safer, but married couples tend to take things for granted after few years , hence the boredom and the unhappiness.

dudara

You may say it's just a piece of paper, but it will change things.

To put it one way, it's a permanent binding contract. While you're living together, there's always the possibility of a quick easy escape route lurking at the back of a head. Marriage is much more serious.

Because marriage is permanent, it also makes you face up to problems. If you were just partners, and problems arose, you could easily split over them. As a married couple, you are more likely to want to work through them.

SingingCherry

That piece of paper does change your relationship. I didn't think it would change ours, but it did and in our case for the better. Before we lived together but we weren't a family, we were a couple. The family aspect really did change things in my eyes. What's mine is his and vise versa in our eyes and in the eyes of the law. The government does not see you as a unit until those papers are signed. We wanted to be that unit.

A lot of people think marriage is silly because it's incredibly expensive to put on a wedding. All you need is the paper to get married.

egan007

hogstheduvet wrote: »

A piece of paper won't change our relationship, which again, is true.

It depends on what you call a piece of paper, a 500Euro note is a piece of paper 1000 of them could change your relationship.
My marriage cert is much more to me than a piece of paper it's a commitment from one other person to forsake everything else for me.

hogstheduvet wrote: »

Getting married doesn't mean you will stay together for ever

It does to me, You are probably better off not getting married if this is the attitude you bring into a marriage.

It may be a romantic view of things but funny enough that comes in handy in marriage too...

How Strange

JC 2K3.. Social Conditioning. You've been raised with the romantic idea that you will get married and that it will be the happiest day of your life, hence you want to do it.

I agree. I also agree that marriage does legally bind two people therefore protecting one/both of them and its beneficial for tax purposes.

The government hinted in run up to 2006 budget that they were considering recognising cohabitation for tax purposes. Ever since I've put everything in the address of the bf's apartment (I live there too) and I put my status down as cohabiting on tax correspondence so if/when this change comes about I can prove that I've been living with my bf for x years.

I think buying a house together is quite a significant committment by both sides and can be a reason to work on problems rather than give up as there are legal and financial implications involved. IMO anyway.

Getting married (expensive hotel, white dress etc etc) and marriage per se aren't important to me but committment is so that's abit of a conundrum!

hogstheduvet

hogstheduvet wrote: »

But he doesn't want to get married. He doesn't see any difference between living with someone, and getting married to someone. He says getting married doesn't change how we love each other, which you can't really argue with. A piece of paper won't change our relationship, which again, is true. Getting married doesn't mean you will stay together for ever, and it doesn't mean he loves me any less.

sorry, I should have been more clear. These are his reasons for not getting married.

biko

For me it means making things official, beside tax, inheritance et cetera.
You can have a quiet civil ceremony on an island somewhere.

If your man says "it does not matter" then you can still get married, because you still want to.
If his reasons are "it won't change anything" you can still get married.

lubie76

I don't understand why people who don't know what the inside of a church looks like decide to have a church wedding or baptise their children. I think it is so hypocritical.
Alot of people decide to get married as a security thing which is crazy because at the end of the day if a relationship isn't working you should be able to leave it. Do you really want to stay with someone if they don't respect you or love you anymore.

the dee

I think marriage is more about making a declaration of long-term commitment, that's why people do it. They want to know that their partner is as committed as they are and want their partner to know that they're committed to them. Getting married is our culturally accepted way of doing this.

seamus

It's definitely a security and commitment thing. Not to mention the obvious legal and financial securities.

You'll also find that publically, people will take your relationship less seriously if you're not married. Even if you've been together 20 years, people will give more credibility to the relationships of the married people around you.

In terms of the "can't just walk out of it" thing, I would say that definitely plays a part in why people do it. Every one of us has a niggle in the back of our head in relationships. That tiny little piece of doubt that tells you the other partner could be gone tomorrow. No-one is immune from this, just some people more than others. Marraige placates that little guy, but it's certainly not a reason to get married.

While not being married may "keep the other person on their toes", chances are it also adds undue stress (however small) on you to stay on your toes. Married people live longer than unmarried people. This is probably why.

Tbh, when a man's only answer to not getting married is "There's no need", he's just keeping the door open, even though he knows he doesn't need to. The idea that they can't just run away tomorrow and start scoring a whole pile of hot little 18 year old virgins if they feel like it, sends a shiver up the spine of some men.

Elessar

If you are planning on having children I would seriously advise him to get married to you because if worst came to worst, he would have sh*t all rights regarding his children if he's an unmarried father.

That is something he should seriously consider.

Dukephil

Hi OP,

I don't mean to be harsh here but why did you ask the question. You feel a need to get married. It seems to me that you had a discussion/arguement with your partner and he laid out a rational, point-by-point basis for not getting married. I am reading between the lines here but it seems that you are looking to harvest us for reasons to counter him with. Souldn't your feeling be reason enough?

Liam Byrne

Lots of interesting and valid points on both sides.

Personally, I like the idea of someone being with you because they want to and not (maybe just) because they said at an altar 10 years ago that they would...

Mind you, I can also appreciate the impact of someone saying "yes, I would love to spend the rest of my life with you"...

But if there were likely to be kids in the picture, yeah - I'd prefer the legal footing for that scenario.

The Corinthian

aul fella wrote: »

It's also a protection for any children you might have together.

No, married or not children are protected equally. Maintenance, inheritance rights, etc. are not affected by the couple's marital status.

The only person who is 'protected' by marriage is the less well off partner, in that the other person will have an obligation to financially take contribute to them for either the rest of their lives or until they remarry.

According to the Citizens Information Site:

At present, the District Court can award any amount up to 500 euro per week for a spouse, and 150 euro per week for each child. If sums greater than these amounts are being sought, you will need to apply to the Circuit Court.

Additionally assets are divided, regardless of who may have bought them or if they pre-dated the marriage, although these are mitigating factors.

Not wanting to be cynical, but given this there are few practical incentives to marriage if there is a large earning disparity between the spouses, and you're the wealthier one. Automatic guardianship (for men, it's always automatic for women) of children and a few tax breaks - that's about it.

Please note, and furthermore, that pre-nuptial agreements are not recognized under Irish law.

As a result you'll tend to find women who intend to become stay at home mothers, or simply home-makers, will be the single biggest demographic that will seek marriage (because traditionally these rolls are more socially acceptable for women). As leaving the workforce for any prolonged period will inevitably result in your career suffering, few would want to chance it without the safety net of spousal maintnance.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

The Corinthian

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I touched on that. Guardianship can still be applied for regardless in the case of a father and for mothers it is automatic, regardless of their marital status.

LegacyUser

Ive always thought i would get married, and now i am also cohibating and i love it, but one day i hope we would get married. just because it feels like the next step in our relationship

another reason i can think off is from my own family experienc- my mum and dad had an amazing marrage and my dad died when he was only 33yrs old. now if my parents were not married, my mother would have been landed in huge financial strain.. which she did because she had 3 small children to feed..but she had the added bonous of widows pension. now its not much but it still got us by when every penny counted.. In ireland couple/parents seem to have more rights as a married couple..

make sure your partners reason for not getting married are genuine and your not wasting your life with the wrong man who is a afraid to commit to you.. (sorry probably not what u want to hear)

greenkittie

How Strange wrote: »

Getting married (expensive hotel, white dress etc etc) and marriage per se aren't important to me but committment is so that's abit of a conundrum!

The expensive hotel and white dress are not part of a marriage thats called a wedding and are not required of a wedding either! My wedding certainly won't be an expensive, over the top, crowd control affair, as i personly dont find that romantic or meaningful.

I find people who dont agree with marriage tend to have unhappy parents. My parents are the happiest couple ive ever met and i think as a result of this that marriage is really important to me. It means commitment, vowing to put the other person above all others for the rest of your lives. I know that you can say this without the marriage but i think its a nice way of saying it to your partner and the rest of the world.

CathyMoran

I got married because I love my husband and wanted to make sure that he got a widowers pension if I died. It was a declaration of my love for my husband - I am glad that I did it. It also made a difference to our relationship - in the past it was easy to walk away when we had rows, now we have to work on them - both of us feel more secure.

Lollipops23

I've had this exact arguement with my BF(although as we've been together a lot less time,it's been very hypothetical)

I do think that it's a declaration of your love and committment to eachother. But I also think that it provides a more secure environment for kids-if the time comes to divorce, things will be a lot cleaner in terms of custody etc.

MagicMarker

Marriage means absolutely nothing. Apart from deluded sentimental crap people believe in their own minds.

The Corinthian

greenkittie wrote: »

I find people who dont agree with marriage tend to have unhappy parents.

I think you'll find that a far more telling trend from the responses here is that those people who don't agree with marriage tend also to be men, while those who have defended it have tended to be women. This is probably because the financially women have most to gain from marriage, while men have most to lose. Call me cynical, but there you go.

Reminds me of the old expression "Marriage is the price men pay for sex, sex is the price women pay for marriage". Given the sexual revolution, it would appear that women have gained their sexual freedom but lost their collateral.

In short there's very little in the marriage contract that a man needs anymore.

I suppose I'd regard marriage as handy for legal rights etc but it's not something I'd ever plan on - if it happens it happens. And romantic too I guess.
The idea of spending a ton of money on one day, however, no thanks. Give me an extensive honeymoon holiday or mortgage payments

Oryx

It seems to me, OP that you know all the reasons why you shouldn't bother getting married. The arguments your would-be husband has given you. And they are valid. There really isnt any pressing financial or legal reason to get married that cannot be solved in another way.

But I think the reason you want to get married is emotional. Doing the deed is as people have said, a public statement of commitment to each other, where you stand up and say, we renounce all others. You are the one for me. Its romantic and meaningful. I liken it to standing back to back and saying 'Its you and me against the world, were a team'.:) It doesnt matter that it might not work out, because at that moment, you both are allowing that it will.

And the corinthian is right, theres very little reason a man needs to get married. But for you, for the emotional side of it, there is. You need that assurance and solidity.

AC1

Hi there,

I'm in the same position as the OP, except we haven't been together as long. We're going out for five years but haven't lived together yet. I feel that he is the one for me and he says he feels the same about me. Whenever i bring up marraige, he says he doesn't see the point, and that a piece of paper doesn't keep people togheter if they aren't happy. Interestingly, i wouldn't want a big day and would be quite happy to have a small ceremony in a registry office. Also, i earn more than him and probably will continue to do so in the future so i would potentially have more to lose than he would. I think there is a lot of social pressure on people to get married, especially women, and that long term relationships where the couple are not married are viewed as being 'less strong' or 'less serious' than those where the couple are married. I suppose it depends big a deal it is to the person who wants to get married. Is it worth losing the person you love just to find someone else who you may marry?

dirtydress

You say that your bf doesnt think it will make a difference and it wont change anything etc...sounds like he doesnt put any value into marriage and isnt bothered to do it...the point to take here is that YOU ARE. Marriage matters to you, it is something that YOU want to do. Its not that he's against marriage, he just doenst see the "point"...seeing this I would be thinking more along the lines of 'why wouldnt he do this for you?' It should be more a case of he doesnt really see the point of marriage but you obviously do and its important to you so why doesnt he do it to make you happy?

I think theres more going on here than he just doesnt see the point...i think he's avoiding the commitment that marriage would bring.

The Corinthian

AC1 wrote: »

Also, i earn more than him and probably will continue to do so in the future so i would potentially have more to lose than he would.

At the moment. Unless you never intend to have children, that can easily change. I've seen women with high flying careers just give it all up and stay at home to care for the kids. It's actually scary to watch - one day they would have done financial analysis, the next they're experts on Bob the Builder toys.

Sir Oxman

It's conditioning as most on here will say.
Society dictates it - he feels he is right, you have an urge (conditioned urge) to conform.

8 years is good, if you get on 50% of the time na dlove each other you must get over this crap societal blip.
30k, a ring a piece of paper and some obscure aunts not specualting that you are the antichrist.
I know which I'd pick.

The Corinthian

dirtydress wrote: »

It should be more a case of he doesnt really see the point of marriage but you obviously do and its important to you so why doesnt he do it to make you happy?

Just because he says he doesn't see the point of marriage, doesn't mean you should take him so literally and think it apathy.

TBH, if the woman I loved thought my joining the Moonies was really important to her, I can't see myself doing that 'just to make her happy'. And for the record, I've nothing against the Moonies - I just can't see any point in them.

Sir Oxman

Wibbs wrote: »

I've read studies which found marriage does change the dynamic of a relationship. If nothing else, if you're living together, there is more option of an out, an escape. Even with divorce, the marriage papers will tend to make people think twice before just walking.

And that's good - how?
Juts asking.

Dudess

I think what Wibbs means is (see my quote above the post): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54424738&postcount=112
I too know of a couple who were together seven years before marrying and their marriage lasted six months - he was being unfaithful. But these are isolated incidents.

Financial security is the only incentive for me to get married. But it's one hell of an incentive. So I'd marry, but in a registry office as I'm agnostic, and have a gathering with some family members (not cousins that I never see and barely know) and my dearest friends. I personally would like that a lot. And I'd buy a really nice outfit - why not? But not a wedding dress.
The gathering would probably be like a run-of-the-mill wedding reception, but smaller. And there's no way I'd invite people's partners/spouses if I don't know them - they won't want to be there anyway. That's a convention I've never understood. The person could be with their partner three weeks and it's still ok to bring them along - ridiculous.

Overheal

Besides the conventions of laws and traditions theres not much point in the sacriment of marriage. If you wanted to have kids together than yes I'd go for it but other than that it seems like some millenia old tradition designed to keep two people faithful and commited to each other. For some people its an expression; for others its an affirmation.

oh dear, I sense a pages long discussion looming...

greenkittie

The Corinthian wrote: »

At the moment. Unless you never intend to have children, that can easily change. I've seen women with high flying careers just give it all up and stay at home to care for the kids. It's actually scary to watch - one day they would have done financial analysis, the next they're experts on Bob the Builder toys.

What exactly is wrong with that? If you have children surely it should be their mother bringing them up as opposed to some stranger in a daycare center? I'm eternally grateful to my parents, for my daddy supporting my mummy while she looked after me and my mummy, for giving up her career to take care of me.

greenkittie

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think you'll find that a far more telling trend from the responses here is that those people who don't agree with marriage tend also to be men, while those who have defended it have tended to be women. This is probably because the financially women have most to gain from marriage, while men have most to lose. Call me cynical, but there you go.

Reminds me of the old expression "Marriage is the price men pay for sex, sex is the price women pay for marriage". Given the sexual revolution, it would appear that women have gained their sexual freedom but lost their collateral.

In short there's very little in the marriage contract that a man needs anymore.

On this thread that may be the case but in real life if you get a man to talk openly they will often be keen on the idea. Of the top of my head i can only think of a few men who dont seem to like the romantic aspect of it and they all come from familys with divorced parents. I know my boyfriend regards marriage just as highly as me but then he would be the romantic type.

The Corinthian

greenkittie wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with that?

I never suggested there was anything wrong with that. I've simply been answering the question as asked in this thread. I've also pointed out why it has become less attractive for one gender over another in modern society.

On this thread that may be the case but in real life if you get a man to talk openly they will often be keen on the idea. Of the top of my head i can only think of a few men who dont seem to like the romantic aspect of it and they all come from familys with divorced parents. I know my boyfriend regards marriage just as highly as me but then he would be the romantic type.

With all due respects, you seem to be getting very touchy on this. I certainly do not deny that there are plenty of men who are keen on the idea of marriage, but you seem to be simply dismissing any criticism of marriage as the product of an unhappy childhood.

Simultaneously you seem to be up-selling the 'romantic aspect', quietly ignoring the financial aspect.

Why do you feel such a need to so aggressively defend the institution?

greenkittie

The Corinthian wrote: »

Simultaneously you seem to be up-selling the 'romantic aspect', quietly ignoring the financial aspect.

Why do you feel such a need to so aggressively defend the institution?

The financial aspect isn't really interesting to me, infact to be perfectly honest I don't even know what the financial benefits are. I'll be able to stand on my own two feet single or married and would still be as keen on the romantic idea of marriage if it contained no financial benefits.

My need to agressively defend it stems from the fact that society seems to be breaking down around me into single parent familys and broken homes. The only people who seem to be happy are those who are involved in happy marriages, everyone else just appears to be a mess.

Wibbs

Of course a happy marriage is the ideal framework to bring up kids. Then again, it's the happy part that's the trick. I know way too many unhappy or unfulfiling marriages. In fact I would say 2 thirds of the ones I've known would have serious issues.

The Corinthian

greenkittie wrote: »

The financial aspect isn't really interesting to me, infact to be perfectly honest I don't even know what the financial benefits are. I'll be able to stand on my own two feet single or married and would still be as keen on the romantic idea of marriage if it contained no financial benefits.

My need to agressively defend it stems from the fact that society seems to be breaking down around me into single parent familys and broken homes. The only people who seem to be happy are those who are involved in happy marriages, everyone else just appears to be a mess.

What age are you Greenkittie?

greenkittie

Nearly 22... still young enough to be idealistic. Although in saying that my boyfriend is 31 and my parents are in their 50s and i know they all feel the same about this subject as me.