Head Gasket change does it also require timing belt?

learnerplates

The head gasket has gone in my car, the mechanic says the timing belt and water pump will also need to be replaced, this increases the price by ~300.
Should the timing belt be related to the head gasket, I wouldn't have thought so?

It's an Opel Astra 1999.

Caveat

Timing belt depends on mileage - varies with cars but generally every 60,000 miles. It's a good idea to get water pump done at the same time as it's easier to do when replacing belt than on a separate occasion.

But I'm pretty sure the belt needing replaced isn't related to the head gasket.

alias no.9

To take the cylinder head off to do the gasket, the timing belt must come off. It would be foolish not to replace it as there should be minimal additional labour. Question the mechanic on the breakdown of costs for the timing belt, i.e. parts v's labour, additional labour should be minimal, but the tensioner and pulleys may be pricey.

rebel.ranter

You migh tsave on the labour by getting the jobs done together, there is a lot of similar work in doing the jobs mentioned, e.g. stripping. Your mechanic is probably doing you a favour by suggesting that this work be done now to actually save you a few bob in the future.

beatman91

Inorder to take the head off to do the head gasket he will need to take the timing belt off.

So when he is putting the thing back on he might as well put on a new belt and water pump.

Not sure how much a new pump costs but it should not cost you much more in labour as he will need to do the same thing.

Ring a parts place like consort and find out how much is water pump and timing belt.

Add a couple of euro more for the labour on the pump and that should be it.

Armin_Tamzarian

Yes, just because the head gasket needs replacing doesn't mean that the timing belt needs replacing.

However, with certain cars the belt will need to be removed anyway so it may as well be replaced while they're at it.
Other cars mightn't necessarily need the belt removed to do the head but the amount of stuff that the mechanic may have to move to get the head out may make the timing belt very accessible.

In such cases the extra work of actually changing the belt would be very small and as such you shouldn't be charged for too much extra labour.
I thing a new belt costs in or around €50 but charging an extra €300 seems a bit excessive.

Note, the position of the timing belt in come cars mean that even if the head was being taken out it wouldn't make doing the timing belt any easier.
In such cases I wouldn't be changing the belt unless it's due for replacing.

learnerplates

The belt and pump were only changed about 15000 miles ago so they're not due.

I'll have to talk to him again but I'd say he's taking them off for convenience sake in order to get easier access to the gasket ye've mentioned.

1000euro in all in a round figure I have gotten; gasket + (he mentioned bolts for the gasket being pricey!)+ belt + water pump, this seems excessive to me.

The car is only worth around 3000 and I am about to sell it (I've just bought another car).

Any suggestions on alternatives?

alias no.9

learnerplates wrote: »

The belt and pump were only changed about 15000 miles ago so they're not due.

I'll have to talk to him again but I'd say he's taking them off for convenience sake in order to get easier access to the gasket ye've mentioned.

He's probably pricing it for a full timing belt kit including the tensioners, pulleys, water pump, etc... I think the interval for these belts is around 42k miles. I'd get him to replace just the belts, shouldn't ammount to much more than €100.

Armin_Tamzarian wrote:

Other cars mightn't necessarily need the belt removed to do the head but the amount of stuff that the mechanic may have to move to get the head out may make the timing belt very accessible.

Any car with an overhead cam will require the timing belt or chain to be removed before taking the head off.

learnerplates

Ok.
Anyone know more about these bolts for the Gasket?
the gasket head has to be planed down before the new one is fitted, is this why new bolts are required? are they pricey?

crosstownk

learnerplates wrote: »

Ok.
Anyone know more about these bolts for the Gasket?
the gasket head has to be planed down before the new one is fitted, is this why new bolts are required? are they pricey?

I'd imagine you were told that the head needs to be skimmed (rather than the gasket planed) which is normal if an engine overheats and blows the head gasket.

New cylinder head bolts are required because most head bolts nowadays are strech-bolts which mean they stretch as they are tightened and therefore can only be used once.

cantdecide

I think he means bolts for the head itself but hey are nothing to do with the waterpump and timing belt. I'd say these could be pricey enough as they would be very specific to the car in they're manufacture and material- he wouldn't pop down the DIY for them.

€300 for a timing belt job when he's taking the head off anyway sounds saucy. I'd just do the belt if you're sure all the idlers/ pulleys got done 15000 miles ago.

learnerplates

I'll talk to the mechanic this evening and see if I can get a price for gasket + timing belt + labour.
Could anyone give me a guess as to how much this should be, '99 Astra.

crosstownk

A mate of mine paid just over a grand for a similar job on his 99 1.4 Astra. His water pump packed in and he damaged some valves so his car probably needed more work than yours. But, IIRC, he got a few other additional things done too - service and front brake pads. He got it done with an independent he uses in Dublin.

GavinPJQuinn

learnerplates wrote: »

I'll talk to the mechanic this evening and see if I can get a price for gasket + timing belt + labour.
Could anyone give me a guess as to how much this should be, '99 Astra.

Howaya man, on an Astra of that age, you be crazy if ya didnt
let him do the timing belt and water pump.They have to be changed
on them engines every 40,000 anyway.Head bolts should be ok, but
seriously, get him to change the belt and timing belt pulleys too.
Serious weak point on any of the 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 and 2.0 petrol
engine.
Dont post here too often, but take my advice.Good car, shame they
are let down by a seriously high maintenance engine.
Expect to pay around the €1,000 mark for this work too.
Gav.

fastrac

why bother if your selling it.money down the drain

Lucifer

Your mechanic will have to take the timing belt off to remove the cylinder head. A timing belt kit retails at about E150 for an astra. give or take E50. cant remember exact price. It makes sense to replace the belt if its due at the same time as its just as easy put on a new belt as it is the old so you should not pay more labour bar a few minutes for changing tensioner, water pump etc. Your astra is due a belt every 40000 miles or 4 years, whichever first and should always have the pulleys, tensioner and water pump changed at the same time. so for your situation you can use the old belt to save money. On the other hand, it would be a good selling point if you had just got the belt done.

learnerplates

fastrac wrote: »

why bother if your selling it.money down the drain

Well the car fixed is worth around 3K, so I have to spend 1K to get 3K, who would buy a broken 99 car?

learnerplates

Lucifer wrote: »

Your mechanic will have to take the timing belt off to remove the cylinder head. A timing belt kit retails at about E150 for an astra. give or take E50. cant remember exact price. It makes sense to replace the belt if its due at the same time as its just as easy put on a new belt as it is the old so you should not pay more labour bar a few minutes for changing tensioner, water pump etc. Your astra is due a belt every 40000 miles or 4 years, whichever first and should always have the pulleys, tensioner and water pump changed at the same time. so for your situation you can use the old belt to save money. On the other hand, it would be a good selling point if you had just got the belt done.

Yeah that makes sense and would increase the selling power, I would have to tell the buyer that the gasket was changed anyway and if they knew nearly as much as you guys te first question would be about the timing belt.
~200 for the timing belt replacement leaves about 800 for the gasket, still seems steep.

mickdw

get new belt fitted but not pump or tensioner as you selling it and they are only 15k old.