Legitimate thread closed with impunity...

Wertz

Not one for posting feedback threads but this irked me a lot when I opened AH this morning.
A thread started by Ircoha on the forum last night about an MEP's statement on firing ranges in eastern europe.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055214044
People were having a discussion, nothing out of hand. Granted it may have been better discussed in the Shooting forum, but the topic was wider than that.
Then this morning the mod from the Shooting forum comes wading in and throws the toys out of the pram:

Sparks wrote:

Oh hooray. Another thread saying that target shooting is the province of terrorists and criminals and we're all dodgy characters. Thanks, all of you, for this wonderful gift. In fact, it's so wonderful, I'm going to wrap it back up and put it away to enjoy at a later date.

...and either closes the thread himself or asks an AH mod/CMod/admin to close it. Not only that but makes some self centred sarcastic comments thanking us all for our contribution. WTF?

Now I've read back through the thread twice and at no point in any of the 13 previous posts, apart from mine, does anyone mention criminality, terrorism or generalise about gun users or owners in a derogatory manner. My purpose in mentioning it was not to tarnish legitimate gun owners and users, but just to make the point that perhaps the shooting holidays or whatever, aren't the only problem here.
Perhaps the thread could have ended up headed the way of ill-informed comment or snappy one-liners, but if so, so what? Aren't we entitled to discuss the issue at hand here? Isn't pre-emptively closing a thread in case it gets "out of hand" just overreacting?
If points were made that someone strongly disagrees with, why not rebutt them rather than just press the "I win" button by locking said thread?
I'm sure many AH users aren't even aware of a Shooting forum, much less feel the need to go and post in it and given our lack of in-depth knowledge on the subject, perhaps such posters wouldn't be made welcome anyhow.

I'm not looking to pick a fight with the mod in question here, that's why I didn't bother to PM them. But this closure is unwarranted (unless I'm missing a deleted post or something).

In general I find moderators have a bad habit on boards of closing a thread whilst adding their tuppence worth in a final post, leaving no right of reply to anyone but other mods...some are a lot more guilty of that than others. Either close the thread without comment or move it or something. This "I'm having the last word" attitude is bullsh*t.

Kintarō Hattori

I have to say I agree with Wertz. Having posted on said thread and read the various replies I'm alos a little lost as to why it was closed.

seamus

I think Sparks's comment kind of sums up the reason:

Another thread saying that target shooting is the province of terrorists and criminals and we're all dodgy characters.

Any community in this country that's been using weapons for recreational purposes has traditionally been a whipping boy and an easy punching bag for TD's and other public figures who want to make it look like they're attempting to tackle a problem.
So legal firearms holders get blamed for their being so many illegal firearms in this country and airsoft users get blamed for increases in armed robberies.

The shooting forum sees a ton of these kinds of threads and claims about shooters which only serves to irritate that community and spread FUD about shooting sports to the rest of the public.

Not transferring the thread to Shooting probably would have been the first course of action.

Kintarō Hattori

seamus wrote: »

I think Sparks's comment kind of sums up the reason:

Any community in this country that's been using weapons for recreational purposes has traditionally been a whipping boy and an easy punching bag for TD's and other public figures who want to make it look like they're attempting to tackle a problem.
So legal firearms holders get blamed for their being so many illegal firearms in this country and airsoft users get blamed for increases in armed robberies.

The shooting forum sees a ton of these kinds of threads and claims about shooters which only serves to irritate that community and spread FUD about shooting sports to the rest of the public.

Not transferring the thread to Shooting probably would have been the first course of action.

The thread wasn't an attack on the people or their hobby, and yeah not moving it might have been good.

Wertz

seamus wrote: »

I think Sparks's comment kind of sums up the reason:

Any community in this country that's been using weapons for recreational purposes has traditionally been a whipping boy and an easy punching bag for TD's and other public figures who want to make it look like they're attempting to tackle a problem.
So legal firearms holders get blamed for their being so many illegal firearms in this country and airsoft users get blamed for increases in armed robberies.

The shooting forum sees a ton of these kinds of threads and claims about shooters which only serves to irritate that community and spread FUD about shooting sports to the rest of the public.

Not transferring the thread to Shooting probably would have been the first course of action.

Yeah but this being in the theatre of AH and not the shooting forum, where I've seen very little comment on legitmate gun onwership, negative or otherwise, why was the need felt to just shut down debate? No-one was trolling or accusing anyone of anytrhing...the topic was broader and merited discussion.
If anything, people were slating Mr Mitchell for shortsighted and reactionary comments and proposals (I certainly was), not abusing legitimate gun users and owners.
If Spark's attitude in that thread is indicative of such a "seige mentality" amongst gun owners in this country, then perhaps they're not safe to be left in control of a lethal weapon Sorry, that was a cheap shot. So was that

I've no wish to carry on the debate in feedback, that's not the purpose of the forum or my thread....I'm just concerned that a moderator over reacted and stifled legitimate discussion among a wider audience, over something that went down on their specialist forum, which the wider audience is neither privvy to nor has a specialised interest in, but who also felt the need to get a dig in at the end with no chance of redress.

[edit] Granted, in light of what Seamus said, moving it was obviously a bad idea, assuming it warranted being moved at all.
When I first posted this thread, I wasn't aware it had been moved at all (I entered the thread from my subscribed list, not from AH) Apologies for that bit of misiformation.

tallaght01

It's a fair topic for discussion.

A mate of mine who's involved in various security stuff goes to eastern europe once or twice a year and practices with automatic weapons and grenades!!! I've seen the videos.

I thik if our politicians are discussing it, it should be fair game for conversation. To extend the logic to assume it means all gun owners/enthusiasts are criminals is a tad sensitive, no?

The most mental thing is that the OP got an infraction for starting the thread!!!!!

Wertz

Issue resolved...well except this bit:

Wertz wrote:

In general I find moderators have a bad habit on boards of closing a thread whilst adding their tuppence worth in a final post, leaving no right of reply to anyone but other mods...some are a lot more guilty of that than others. Either close the thread without comment or move it or something. This "I'm having the last word" attitude is bullsh*t.

But I'll hold that off for another thread, the next time I see it specifically happening.

Feel free to lock this or whatever and thanks to whoever took notice.

Sparks

tallaght01 wrote: »

It's a fair topic for discussion.

Not in the target shooting forum it's not. There's a strict ban on any and all politics in that forum. And the OP here (for this Feedback thread, that is) missed the fact that the thread was started in AH but was moved without my knowlege into Target Shooting. So I logged in and here's this thread in my neck of the woods, breaking one of the cardinal rules of the charter and generally taking the mickey out of legitimate shooters. So I locked the thread and infracted the OP. So it's all WhiteWashMan's fault for moving the thread in the first place

I thik if our politicians are discussing it, it should be fair game for conversation. To extend the logic to assume it means all gun owners/enthusiasts are criminals is a tad sensitive, no?

No. There already was a thread in the general Shooting forum (where discussion like this are allowed) on this topic. Take a read and note the difference in tone.

The most mental thing is that the OP got an infraction for starting the thread!!!!!

Since rescinded. However, the reaction of other moderators on looking at the thread was to ban the OP, before we all realised it had started in AH, not Target Shooting.

2 stroke

Isn't moving threads very similar to posting new threads. Mods are always criticizing posters for not reading the relevalent charter, Maybe they should lead by example. Now ban the Mod that moved the thread.

Mr Magnolia

2 stroke wrote: »

Isn't moving threads very similar to posting new threads.

How so?

A thread is generally moved because the OP has posted it in the wrong forum.

smashey

2 stroke wrote: »

Now ban the Mod that moved the thread.

Hehe.

That would be worth watching.

Wertz

Can't mods see when a thread has been moved to their forum (which I did notice, just not at the time of initially posting this)? I mean all and sundry can see when it's been moved from a forum so why not to a forum?
IIRC this wouldn't be the first thread locked after it was booted out of AH and then jumped upon by the relevant mod in the forum it got moved to because of it's AH-ness.
Perhaps a topic to bring to the admins...

aidan_walsh

Wertz wrote:

Can't mods see when a thread has been moved to their forum (which I did notice, just not at the time of initially posting this)? I mean all and sundry can see when it's been moved from a forum so why not to a forum?

Only as well as any other poster. There is no notification on a moved thread as to where it originated or who moved it. One minute its not there, the next it is.

Sparks

Wertz wrote: »

Can't mods see when a thread has been moved to their forum (which I did notice, just not at the time of initially posting this)? I mean all and sundry can see when it's been moved from a forum so why not to a forum?

Because that's not how it works.

Perhaps a topic to bring to the admins...

Already done...

2 stroke

smashey wrote: »

Hehe.

That would be worth watching.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Besides it would only be a token ban unless the particular mod used that forum regularly in which case he/she deserves a ban.

smashey

2 stroke wrote: »

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Besides it would only be a token ban unless the particular mod used that forum regularly in which case he/she deserves a ban.

Sorry 2 stroke, what I meant is the specific mod in question.

2 stroke

smashey wrote: »

Sorry 2 stroke, what I meant is the specific mod in question.

I don't know who it is but I'm sure i'd find it funny too.

mike65

Banning WWM from AH may cause glitch in the matrix*.

Mike.

or small nuclear explosion

2 stroke

I meant a ban from the shooting forum

Wertz

mike65 wrote: »

Banning WWM from AH may cause glitch in the matrix*.

Mike.

or small nuclear explosion

It would however make for a popular spectator sport. Live webcam coverage on pay per view could be a lucrative sideline for boardscorp.

Dr_Teeth

I'm with Sparks on this.. threads mentioning Eastern European ranges, "gun training", and "coolest guns" really should never be moved to the Target Shooting forum, especially with all the coverage in the media recently to do with criminals and their use of firearms.

randylonghorn

Wertz wrote: »

Can't mods see when a thread has been moved to their forum (which I did notice, just not at the time of initially posting this)? I mean all and sundry can see when it's been moved from a forum so why not to a forum?

Wasn't there a couple of comments on another thread here in Feedback yesterday about the need to leave a note / post when moving a thread along the lines of "Moved from Forum X to Forum Y" ... or some other method of flagging such moves for both the mods and forum users in the destination forum especially?

EDIT: Aye, knew I had seen this being discussed very recently ... linkeh

This seems to prove the point ... a certain amount of irritation and frustration caused on all sides, with no real reason for it except misunderstanding / confusion.