Advice on hosting

Fanny Cradock

Hello folks,

First off, apologies if this post is in the wrong place.

I was wondering if I could get some advice with regards to hosting?

I would like to host some files on the back of a blog that I am hoping to start. My main requirement other than the obvious of hosting files, would be the ability to stream audio files and maybe, but no necessarily, video files. This would be strictly a hobby, so nothing extravagant would be needed.

I have absolutely no experience in this area, so any suggestions for potential companies would be greatly appreciated.

Added to this, please feel free to relate any info on the type of ground work I would expect to encounter in setting up this host, e.g. do you have to be knowledgeable in this area?

A few of potential companies I would consider going for are:

http://www.register365.com/products/unix/business. At €48 for the year it seems very cheap. Would there be hidden costs involved?

http://www.letshost.ie/The_News/Latest_News/The_Lets_Host_%22COMPLETE%22_Hosting_Plan/
About the same price, but I notice that it specifies audio streaming, which is an essential requirement. Does that mean that 365 doesn't support streaming? I'm probably leaning towards this one, tbh.

http://www.blacknight.ie/soho.0.html
The disk space and maximum monthly transfer seems much lower than the others.

Sorry for all these silly questions, but I'm out of my depth here.

AARRRGH

If you are streaming music or videos, you need bandwidth. Depending how busy your blog will be, this could be a very small or very large figure.

Personally I prefer US hosts - your money goes further and their customer service is better. The downside is your websites aren't in the Irish legal zone so you've no one to sue if things go wrong

Here's an example of how much bandwidth you could be using: I used to run an adult website which got about a million visitors per week. I had no streaming video or anything like that, but I did have a file or two people could download.

It used 3000 GB data transfer per week.

Obviously starting off you'll be no where near this figure, but assuming you'd like your website to grow and grow, my advice to you would be to pick a host you'd be happy to develop a long term relationship with. (Moving sites to a new host is a pain especially when they're popular.)

Send each hosts accounts, sales and support team an e-mail and see how long they take to reply, and if they answer your questions correctly.

If you want an Irish host, there's one other you missed called "Spiral Hosting" who posts here a lot. He seems like a nice guy.

aidan_walsh

I'm putting it down here now, because even though its been a rule for longer than I have been on boards it gets forgotten an awful, awful lot.

Discuss the merits of what the OP is looking for on the basis of what he needs. That is all. Companies, plans, personal opinions, forget it. There have been too many threads turned into junk by that in the past.

Questions regarding plans etc should be forwarded to the companies in question through THEIR channels.

So much as one breach and the thread is locked.

Continue.

mneylon

If you're going to stream you need bandwidth, but how much will depend on how much you're streaming.

If your visitors are in Ireland then you should host with an Irish host, as you will get a faster connection to their servers, as will your Irish visitors

As for anything else - contact the various companies you're interested in.

AARRRGH

blacknight wrote: »

If your visitors are in Ireland then you should host with an Irish host, as you will get a faster connection to their servers, as will your Irish visitors

Only by a couple of milliseconds though.

There's one thousand milliseconds in a second, and perhaps a host in the US takes 50 - 100 more milliseconds than an Irish host. That's only one tenth of a second...

Is this really noticable?

mneylon

dublindude wrote: »

Only by a couple of milliseconds though. Is this really noticable?

If you're dealing in multimedia - yes

AARRRGH

I dunno... I've never noticed any difference...

mneylon

dublindude wrote: »

I dunno... I've never noticed any difference...

You obviously haven't tried to download a backup from a cheap US host and wondered why it took 2 hours to download a file that would normally take 10 minutes ....

CoNfOuNd

For people in Ireland, a typical Irish host should have a response time at least 4x faster than an American host. When you are waiting on large video files to transfer, you (and your websites' visitors) will notice how much slower it will transfer if your server is on another continent.

Sometimes it only becomes apparent when people are used to American hosts and change to an Irish host, and can't believe the difference in speed.

If you are going to be hosting large amounts of audio/video files, I'd look at all the available packages from local companies before going to the US super-hosts like Too Good To Be True Web Hosting Inc.

mneylon

CoNfOuNd wrote: »

US super-hosts like Too Good To Be True Web Hosting Inc.

You mean these guys? http://www.nouptime.com/

AARRRGH

blacknight wrote: »

You obviously haven't tried to download a backup from a cheap US host and wondered why it took 2 hours to download a file that would normally take 10 minutes ....

I think we should put a file on a "cheap US host" and a "cheap Irish host" and do a download comparison.

mneylon

dublindude wrote: »

I think we should put a file on a "cheap US host" and a "cheap Irish host" and do a download comparison.

Cheap or economical?

AARRRGH

Well you are saying compare a large download from a cheap US host with a large download from an Irish host.

You have to compare apples with apples... cheap US host vs cheap Irish host.

I would agree that a very large download would be a bit quicker via an Irish host (all those 100 milliseconds do add up) but how many websites need to offer very large downloads?

I just feel, for the average website, the speed difference between an Irish host and a US host would be negligible.

Note: I'm not trying to knock Irish hosts, I'm just trying to give an independent, honest view of hosting choices for the OP

mneylon

dublindude wrote: »

I just feel, for the average website, the speed difference between an Irish host and a US host would be negligible.

It isn't neglible

A lot of the sites that people post for review would be considered "average" and they take forever to load the first time.

People won't wait an extra second or two for a site to open / load if another one loads instantly.

Why would they?

AARRRGH

Could you give an example of this?

Also, is it really possible for you to be unbiased on any hosting related topics?

mneylon

dublindude wrote: »

Could you give an example of this?

Here's one I was trying to look at last night:

http://www.takeone.ie/

dublindude wrote: »

Also, is it really possible for you to be unbiased on any hosting related topics?

I could ask you the same question.

aidan_walsh

Guys...

AARRRGH

blacknight wrote: »

I could ask you the same question.

That doesn't make any sense.

I have nothing to gain by giving an honest, independent opinion of hosting.

blacknight wrote:

Here's one I was trying to look at last night:

http://www.takeone.ie/

Works fine for me.

aidan_walsh wrote:

Guys...

Aidan I actually think the Irish hosts should be disallowed from giving "advice" to people asking questions about hosting. It's nearly always the same nonsense: non-Irish hosts are crap. It's a false scare tactic.

aidan_walsh

dublindude wrote:

Aidan I actually think the Irish hosts should be disallowed from giving "advice" to people asking questions about hosting. It's nearly always the same nonsense: non-Irish hosts are crap. It's a false scare tactic.

Thats a topic for another thread, perhaps better suited to Feedback. This thread is about getting the best information for the OP.

That particular warning was regarding the increasingly personal nature of the posts, which won't be tolerated.

CoNfOuNd

I'm certainly not using scare tactics. Boo!

If I had a hosting question I'd want answers from the people who know the industry best. In this case, that is webhosts.

I'm sure that Blacknight as a webhost, like myself, either owns or has owned some US based servers. They are generally preferable for US-based customers. Non-Irish hosts aren't crap, but if you can get just as good hosting in your own country, you should go for it to take advantage of the speed.

Bob the Builder

Yes, it makes a big difference. Downloading files from Irish websites are much faster than those of a foreign website, especially faraway ones like Australia. Finland is a good place to host a website, because it has high speed cables coming to Ireland.
Basically, Hosts like blacknight would be amongst the fastest, and although they try their best to speed up the websites, the fact that irish broadband is so slow makes a big hinder.

and btw, don't be such a bunch of tight fleckers. If I was downloading an audio file, even 1 second would big a difference, not a very big one, but still. And how much of a saving are you intending to make by choosing America over Ireland. The server should be located a close to the target audience/webmaster as possible.

Audio Streaming is the exact same on every website. Whether it says so or not. The file is saved onto the site in the exact same way as a html/php file, and when that URL is entered into the toolbar, you'll get a dialog box which will say either "Open" or "Save", as if you were downloading a regular file.

There are scripts available that will allow the file to be played directly in the web browser, PM if you would like assisstance with that. Make sure, whatever you do, that you're hosting has:

At least 3gb of space(you'll be a while using that up ), but get as much space as possible.
Plenty of bandwith.... the more the merrier.
PHP
At least two/three databases
Customer support by email and/or telephone.

If you do choose a US host, or even an irish one... dont be afraid to Google them, and see what people are saying about them. Generally in Ireland, the support is better... although the prices are higher.

Good Luck on your travels OP.

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Thats a topic for another thread, perhaps better suited to Feedback. This thread is about getting the best information for the OP.

That particular warning was regarding the increasingly personal nature of the posts, which won't be tolerated.

Exactly. Which is why the Web Hosting forum was shut down, and thats the reason the feedback forum is there. If you create a new thread in feedback, I'll be happy to explain the situation and why. Be assured, you will receive a completely unbiased reason.

Now, please, get back on-topic or we'll find that the webmaster forum will be shut down as well.

monkey tennis

blacknight wrote: »

You obviously haven't tried to download a backup from a cheap US host and wondered why it took 2 hours to download a file that would normally take 10 minutes ....

CoNfOuNd wrote: »

For people in Ireland, a typical Irish host should have a response time at least 4x faster than an American host. When you are waiting on large video files to transfer, you (and your websites' visitors) will notice how much slower it will transfer if your server is on another continent.

You both seem to be confusing bandwidth with latency. If you have two servers with the same upstream bandwidth, one in Ireland and one in the US, then chances are the US one might have slightly higher latency (and these days we're only talking around 50ms extra, as dublindude said), but the download rate should be the same (of course, this is going to be dependant on routing, peering, etc). If storage and bandwidth costs are significantly cheaper with the US company, then it makes sense to use it.

flamegrill

Disclosure: I own 50% of Blacknight.

Now to business. Choosing an Irish host that has servers in Ireland is always going to be better in the long run, for a few simple reasons.

1) They are tangible, i.e. you can go visit the servers @ no cost to yourself.
2) The support people you'll be dealing with are local and have local access to the servers
3) Engineering teams again are local to the servers. You can be assured that the technical end of things is being run correctly.
4) The larger irish hosts run and maintain their own networks. They maintain their own transit and peering agreements.
5) Some run their own data centres, others have large suites in other larger data centres.

As for advice, most Irish hosts and indeed hosts in other regions, countries give 30 day money back guarantees. If you're not happy then move. Most of them will be able to cater for your needs one way or another.

Also by buying Irish, you are supporting the Irish economy and helping to create/support Irish jobs.

Fanny Cradock

For arguments sake lets say I go with an Irish host full stop. As this is merely a hobby I am not overly concerned with speeds. Besides, I don't expect much in the way of traffic, and the sizes of files available would be quite small - 5MB give or take. Added to that, I like the idea of using an Irish company for purely jingoistic reasons. Also, they are much easier to fire-bomb should they mess up

I'm going to phone 365hosting and lets host and decide between the two. However, I really wanted to see what technical experience I would need with regards to the hole area of hosting. Would a users interaction be as simple a process as something like uploading files onto yousendit etc?

Thanks for the replies, especially nevf

mneylon

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm going to phone 365hosting and lets host and decide between the two.

365 are Irish based ie. servers in Ireland.

LetsHost use US servers

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

However, I really wanted to see what technical experience I would need with regards to the hole area of hosting. Would a users interaction be as simple a process as something like uploading files onto yousendit etc?

You'd need to know how to use FTP. If you can move files around on your desktop computer getting to grips with FTP shouldn't be too hard.

CuteFTP, WS FTP on windows are fairly popular, as is filezilla. Head over to Tucows and see which free ones are available

Bob the Builder

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

For arguments sake lets say I go with an Irish host full stop. As this is merely a hobby I am not overly concerned with speeds. Besides, I don't expect much in the way of traffic, and the sizes of files available would be quite small - 5MB give or take. Added to that, I like the idea of using an Irish company for purely jingoistic reasons. Also, they are much easier to fire-bomb should they mess up

I'm going to phone 365hosting and lets host and decide between the two. However, I really wanted to see what technical experience I would need with regards to the hole area of hosting. Would a users interaction be as simple a process as something like uploading files onto yousendit etc?

Thanks for the replies, especially nevf

Your more than welcome.

With the specifications I have outlined above, it will be simple to run a blog on the website, and upload plenty of the 5mb files.

Hosting365 offers a lower end plan which costs in the region of €4 per month * 12months = €48 per year with free setup. On top of that, you will need a domain, .com/.nets are generally approx €10 per year, .ie's could be four times the price with certain restrictions on what names you can register(www.iedr.ie). Bandwith is good too!

Blogs can be installed in a matter of 15mins if you know how, and if you have a good installation guide.

If you would like to be able to put(upload) files on your site, you will have to have someway of getting the file from your PC onto the website. This is called FTP. You have the option of using a web based ftp or a computer based ftp. I recommend you start with the latter for the time being. http://smartftp.com/ . Download that.

When you do eventually sign-up for your website create an FTP account from your control panel. And using the login credentials specified, login to SmartFTP. You will now be able to transfer files of any type seamlessly between the web server and your computer.

If you would like more information about web-based audio players, rather having to download the file and open it in windows media player, please PM me and I will look further into that.

Feel free to ask Questions!

~NevF

steve-hosting36

Just to clarify, our entry level plan is 3.95 per month, but just 39.95 if paid annually (so actually 3.32 or so per month

AARRRGH

flamegrill wrote: »

Disclosure: I own 50% of Blacknight.

Now to business. Choosing an Irish host that has servers in Ireland is always going to be better in the long run, for a few simple reasons.

1) They are tangible, i.e. you can go visit the servers @ no cost to yourself.

I agree. But in reality no one is really going to do this

flamegrill wrote: »

2) The support people you'll be dealing with are local and have local access to the servers

I don't see how this only applies to Ireland. My servers, in The Planet, are managed by (many) local engineers.

flamegrill wrote: »

3) Engineering teams again are local to the servers. You can be assured that the technical end of things is being run correctly.

How is this Ireland specific?

flamegrill wrote: »

4) The larger irish hosts run and maintain their own networks. They maintain their own transit and peering agreements.

How is this Ireland specific??

flamegrill wrote: »

5) Some run their own data centres, others have large suites in other larger data centres.

How is this Ireland specific???

flamegrill wrote: »

Also by buying Irish, you are supporting the Irish economy and helping to create/support Irish jobs.

This would be the biggest factor for me.

Your money definitely goes a lot further with US hosts (example: I have two Xeon processors, 2 GB ram, 2 x 73 GB SCSI RAID drives, 2500 GB transfer per month and cpanel for €190 per month. That comes with brilliant support too.)

The server may not be local, and it may not be supporting local jobs, but US hosts should definitely be a consideration and should not be shot down by Irish hosts everytime they are mentioned.

aidan_walsh

We're done. Congrats to the lot of you.