New Toyota Avensis

E92

Well here it is disguised!

It seems that Toyota are intent on moving it very much upmarket...4 Wheel Drive, panoramic glass sunroof, an iDrive/MMI/HMI etc style feature(not in this link, but I've heard it mentioned in Toyota Owners Club websites), where this all fits in with a company that decided that europeans don't value that ueber well put together feel in an interior at all as per the Auris I don't know, but if there's prototypes going around the place, you can be sure that Toyota are coming close to launching the car.

It will also feature a diesel hybrid option too, quite surprising really considering how much they've been trumpeting the petrol hybrid option with the Prius and all the other petrol hybrids.


Having looked at the photos again, I think this car is like what an Auiris Estate would look like, so maybe this is another hoax, like the time Auto Express saw the "Avensis saloon" and of course it was really the Corolla.

bazz26

Judging by those photos I'm not that impressed. Just looks like an Auris on steroids.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

Judging by those photos I'm not that impressed. Just looks like an Auris on steroids.

Perish the thought :eek:

G Luxel

looks like a Corolla Estate. Probably a Corolla Mule disguised as an Avensis.

colm_mcm

new model Corolla estate has already been spotted (ages ago!)

jayok

If you want disgusting you need to see the new Subaru Imprezza. OMG I seen one in the flesh and it looks like a tugboat. See here:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=792793

Spit62500

Here's an insiders view:

Quote:

well i've taken a look at it today, i work at burnaston got the chance to see it today prior to its october 2008 production start.

not bad but next to a new mondeo i know the ford would take my cash.

new headlights (they go even further up the top of the wing)
new grill
the bonnet is a fuuny shape really it slopes quite a lot too
the interior is definetly better than the current model with influences from the auris (raised gearstick,etc)
the rear lights are split between the rear quarter and the bootlid.
the estate has the option of a "panoramic" roof, effectivly a 4 foot glass panel instead of the normal metal roof panel.
currently there are only saloon and estates planned, no hatchback. we have been told this is not likely to change for the forseeable future.

downsides.....well the plastics used in the interior appear really cheap to the eye, quite hard too. the car does have the appearance more of another facelift rather than a complete model design which it is.

nearly forgot, soem of the features of the current avensis that aren't available to uk/european customers are planned too (4 wheel drive and tv tuners, etc only in japan on the current model)

if i remember anything else ill post it

End quote

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=73895&pid=701329&mode=threaded&start=#entry701329

More cheap looking plastics to follow on from the Auris by the sound of it...

E92

Spit62500 wrote: »

More cheap looking plastics to follow on from the Auris by the sound of it...

And then Toyota are going wondering why their cars don't sell in Europe?

The answer is above.

Cars have to have high grade plastics if they want to sell in Europe.

Of course Toyota don't seem to have grasped this very simple concept, but this is what happens when you go on a massive cost cutting plan.

I can understand not using expensive high quality materials in a company like Jaguar(though the new XF is meant to be very well put together) or Fiat, these companies have massive financial problems and understandably don't have a lot of dosh to be throwing around, but this sort of cost cutting is absolutely inexcusable in the world's most profitable car manufacturer.

The new Avensis might even be a step backwards on it's predecessor from the sounds of things.

I suppose the expensive double wishbone suspension is going to get the chop as well, and Toyota will go back to cheapy cheapy non independent rear suspension too?

EDIT:

Having looked at the Toyota Owners' Club it is clear that the Auris is quite problematic already, and this car is not even a year old. The Auris has been widely criticised for its cheapness in the press, and the interior of it is nowhere near as well put together as its predecessor, the Corolla. The Auris is the first Toyota(along with the Corolla saloon) to show very evident signs off cost cutting, so this does not bode very well for future Toyota models, including the new Avensis.

I note that Toyota aren't bothering to make the new Avensis as a hatchback, not that it matters for us, but in the UK and a lot of the continent, hatchbacks are preferred over saloons in this type of car, so this is a clear indication that Toyota are going to be moving the car upmarket, but what's the point when they are going to be using cheap looking interiors and when they already have a more upmarket saloon in the form of the Lexus IS?

Of course the truth of the matter is that for all the faults like this unnecessary cost cutting, the Avensis will sell by the bucketload here, and all because of the badge on the bonnet and boot.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

Cars have to have high grade plastics if they want to sell in Europe.

I think that is an insult to peoples intelligence! The fascination with dashboard plastics is one that motoring journos talk about more than the general public.

If I am buying a car i know how soft the dashboard may be comes well down on my list!

The fact is cars like the Auris no longer offer anything that Kia and cheaper manufacturers don't!

Henry Ford III

They sell plenty of cars despite all this. Market leaders by volume. Strong residuals too.

E92

At the lower end of the scale, its not that important(quality of the interior plastics), but in a family saloon thats trying to compete with more upmarket German saloons, it is impoertant to have an expensive looking interior.

In the continent, Toyota push their cars as more upmarket rivals to Fords, Opels etc, i.e. they try to do a Volkswagen on it, and only sell very high spec versions of their cars, like I've seen Corollas with climate control, Avensis with leather seats, I've never seen a Corolla with Climate Control here, whereas here they bring all the bottom of the range models, and they market them as such, they sell cars with shag all as standard, and they are going after Opels and Fords, not selling their cars as a posher car than an Opel or Ford, so my point about the quality of the interior is a very important one in this context, not so much here, but certainly in Europe, we're only one very small part of the entire European car market, and even in the UK, where Toyotas are relatively popular compared to the rest of Europe, they only sell 4 times as many of them as they do here even though they have 15 times more people living there.

Toyotas are much less popular in Europe, Toyota sell more cars there more than anywhere else in Europe, and they are about as common as Lexus are here(and that's being kind about it).

what_car

E92 wrote: »

And then Toyota are going wondering why their cars don't sell in Europe?

will sell by the bucketload here, and all because of the badge on the bonnet and boot.

same for the bmw 3 series 1.6 :D:D:D:D

what_car

E92 wrote: »

Well here it is disguised!

It seems that Toyota are intent on moving it very much upmarket...4 Wheel Drive, panoramic glass sunroof, an iDrive/MMI/HMI etc style feature(not in this link, but I've heard it mentioned in Toyota Owners Club websites), where this all fits in with a company that decided that europeans don't value that ueber well put together feel in an interior at all as per the Auris I don't know, but if there's prototypes going around the place, you can be sure that Toyota are coming close to launching the car.

It will also feature a diesel hybrid option too, quite surprising really considering how much they've been trumpeting the petrol hybrid option with the Prius and all the other petrol hybrids.


Having looked at the photos again, I think this car is like what an Auiris Estate would look like, so maybe this is another hoax, like the time Auto Express saw the "Avensis saloon" and of course it was really the Corolla.

having owned both makes, i think the honda product is presented better
honda are well known for good engines... and better build quality.. however honda are that bit more expensive......but worth it.


i see the new avensis has that small bit of window on the driver door
like the auris....... yuck.:D hope the new accord looks better!

E92

what_car wrote: »

same for the bmw 3 series 1.6 :D:D:D:D

Except BMW are getting rid of the 316i as a result of the VRT changes!

Mailman

I think Toyota are trying to turn the Toyota brand in to the equivalent of GM's Chevrolet in the US.
They are leaving the space above open for the likes of Lexus and sCion.

I read a review for the new US Corolla and the review pointed out that the car had been very obviously costed down and they were making no attempt to compete on quality of interior or technological sophistication with the market leaders in the US market. The suspension was actually less sophisticated than in the previous generation and the plastics used for switchgear on the dashboard were very poor.

Suppose it makes sense as a mainstream Toyota buyer isn't usually a discerning buyer and just wants a reliable bullet-proof transmission.

E92

what_car wrote: »

hope the new accord looks better!

There was a thread about the new Accord some time back here. It looks like a stretched version of the Civic hatchback, and in saloon guise of course. It is a brilliant looking car.

It doesn't look like a Civic saloon, cause the Civic saloon is of course the JDM/USDM Civic, whereas the hatchback is the Euro Civic.

E92

Mailman wrote: »

I think Toyota are trying to turn the Toyota brand in to the equivalent of GM's Chevrolet in the US.
They are leaving the space above open for the likes of Lexus and sCion.

I read a review for the new US Corolla and the review pointed out that the car had been very obviously costed down and they were making no attempt to compete on quality of interior or technological sophistication with the market leaders in the US market. The suspension was actually less sophisticated than in the previous generation and the plastics used for switchgear on the dashboard were very poor.

In America perceived quality isn't important, you can tell by just looking at an American car that its been built to a budget, and it doesn't affect the sales of cars there.

In Europe, the standard of car interiors is far, far higher, and from what I've been reading, the newer Toyotas are not going to bother.

As for trying to turn Toyota into a value brand, I don't see what that would achieve, they already have Daihatsu for that reason.

In Europe they've been trying to push their cars more upmarket, as Honda did with the Accord, and as VW do. A half way house if you like between the likes of Ford and Audi/BMW etc.

Scion is the youth brand in the US, they don't even sell Scions in Japan AFAIK! There are no plans for Toyota to bring Scion to Europe, or even outside of North America AFAIK.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

In Europe they've been trying to push their cars more upmarket, as Honda did with the Accord, and as VW do. A half way house if you like between the likes of Ford and Audi/BMW etc.

Realistically there is no difference between a high spec Mondeo and a BMW 5 series! The Ford is as well engineered, as nice to drive and as comfortable.

VW and Hondas idea of "going upmarket" merely involved upping the price of their cars and making them poorer value for money.

Whatever Toyota have been good at, it is selling cars. They don't give a hoot about me, you, Jeremy Clarkson or the dimwits who print auto express. They seem to know what people want, and it isn't an accident they are the biggest manufacturer in the world. I don't doubt they are having some QC probs at the moment, but if they feel the average buyer doesn't need silcone damped this and rubber that, they are most likely right!

Mailman

maidhc wrote: »

Realistically there is no difference between a high spec Mondeo and a BMW 5 series!

Wouldn't a Mondeo be more exclusive these days in pure volume terms.

E92

Mailman wrote: »

Wouldn't a Mondeo be more exclusive these days in pure volume terms.

There are still way more Mondeos around the place than 5 series BMWs!

E92

Here's a link to the photos of the saloon. Reminds me of the Honda Civic saloon, and it doesn't look like a car that's going to get the pulses racing....

bazz26

Rear profile looks very like the new Mazda 6/Lexus IS to me.

Seems to be following the current trend of D Segment cars like the Passat and Mondeo by growning in size too.

colm_mcm

Is that a rear wheel drive? looks like a diff on the back?

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Except BMW are getting rid of the 316i as a result of the VRT changes!

318i will be the new 316i then. Point is it's base model for people who just want a BMW badge.

E92

Yes but as a 318i, 320i, and 318d of the same spec can be had for less than a 316i now, and the 320d only costs a fraction more, and the price premiums for going for the more powerful engines are going to be much smaller, I don't think people will just automatically jump ship straight to a 318i, I reckon the 320i and 320d will get a lot more popular(especially the 320d), and as the 6 cylinder models can in some cases be had for less than the 318s e.g. 325d SE after July will be cheaper than a 318d SE now, there should be more sales of the 6 cylinder versions, especially the 325s.

I'd say the mainstray of the 3 series range after July will be the 318d though, with the 320d coming a close second, but the petrols will still remain popular as their CO2 rating is low enough to warrant them being taxed the same and in some cases lower than rival diesel cars!

Spit62500

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is that a rear wheel drive? looks like a diff on the back?

More likely 4WD varient?