Cycling in Dublin

HeY-bEaRDo

Hey, i'm doing a project in college about Transport in Dublin. In a recent talk Minister Eamon Ryan pointed out that Dublin is both flatter and dryer than Amsterdam and yet there are very few people who are willing to swap four wheels for two. The benefits are obvious; you know exactly how long its going to take to get from A to B, its good for your health, and it is much more environmentally friendly. So what's stopping people?

Any comments would be a big help and if you could answer the following questions that would be even better:

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not?

How far do you live from work/school?

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?

Thanks

Beardo

SuperSean11

HeY-bEaRDo wrote: »

Hey, i'm doing a project in college about Transport in Dublin. In a recent talk Minister Eamon Ryan pointed out that Dublin is both flatter and dryer than Amsterdam and yet there are very few people who are willing to swap four wheels for two. The benefits are obvious; you know exactly how long its going to take to get from A to B, its good for your health, and it is much more environmentally friendly. So what's stopping people?

Any comments would be a big help and if you could answer the following questions that would be even better:

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not?

How far do you live from work/school?

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?

Thanks

Beardo

One reason could be our bad weather

Tomas_V

Or, more correctly, the false perception that we have a lot bad weather and that one might get drenched.

That's one.

Another must be Ireland's absurd cycle lane laws.

HeY-bEaRDo

but its dryer here than it is in Amsterdam!

Colm R

I cycle the relatively short distance of 4km to work. 8km a day is good exercise I guess.

Cycling in Dublin is not great but its not impossible. Whats infuritaing is the non continuation of Cycle lanes, just like bus lanes. Where bus lanes and cycle lanes are combined, I cannot speak highly enough of Dublin Bus drivers. My experience is that they will overtake you when its safe to do so, and are generally not intimaditing. I guess they understand the size of their vehicle and how that can put a cyclist off.

Light up and be seen. If you have to cycle in pedestrian area, like the ifsc, slow down. Pedestrians don't mind cyclists as long as your not pelting along.

Motorists, a quick look in the side mirror when turning left, espeically if you in slow moving traffic. Most drivers do this. The ones that don't are the same drivers that piss other motorists off.

Its good for the heart, the fitness, the environment, and if that doesn't get to you, its also good for your pocket.

HeY-bEaRDo

Tomas_V wrote: »

Another must be Ireland's absurd cycle lane laws.

Do tell?

Ste.phen

HeY-bEaRDo wrote: »

Do tell?

I'm sure someone will mention in more detail and with more of a definitive answer, but basically, as i understand it:
*Cyclists are required by law to use a cycle lane where available
*Cars are NOT required by law to stay out of them
*Cars are in many cases allowed to PARK in them.
*Drivers who park in them (where it's a clearway) are never (that i've seen, anyways) fined, etc

Heart

There lack of proper surfaces in cycle lanes.

Also their stupid operating hours, some are shared parking spaces, some are parked in regardless.

I use the cycle lane along Parnell St., its always parked in every evening...

H

trellheim

yes the Mespil road cycle lanes in both directions ? Nearly gone now due to so many roadworks but would they put them back ? would they me hole.

HeY-bEaRDo

In a recent talk Minister Eamon Ryan pointed out that Dublin is both flatter and dryer than Amsterdam and yet there are very few people who are willing to swap four wheels for two. The benefits are obvious; you know exactly how long its going to take to get from A to B, its good for your health, and it is much more environmentally friendly. So what's stopping people?

Any comments would be a big help and if you could answer the following questions that would be even better:

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not?

How far do you live from work/school?

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?

Thanks

Beardo

MoominPapa

Igy wrote: »

I'm sure someone will mention in more detail and with more of a definitive answer, but basically, as i understand it:
*Cyclists are required by law to use a cycle lane where available
*Cars are NOT required by law to stay out of them
*Cars are in many cases allowed to PARK in them.
*Drivers who park in them (where it's a clearway) are never (that i've seen, anyways) fined, etc

According to this (if I'm reading it correctly)

• Cyclists are required to use them when available
• Vehicles ARE required to stay out of them unless avoiding an obstruction or crossing for access
• Vehicles unloading are allowed to park in them for a maximum of 30 mins

However, you are completely correct that no one ever gets fined, clearway or not

dogmatix

Dublin is flatter then amsterdam? For a minister who lives in dublin 16 or thereabouts he must not be cycling in and out of town too often. To get from the city centre to ballinteer you have to go up a steep hill after milltown, a not so steep (but bloody long) hill at the mental asylum and the worst hill of all, just after dundrum. Flatter? i don't think so!

Cycle paths are another problem - they are usually badly surfaced/prepared, and used as parking at all hours by cars.

MOH

I've lived and cycled in both Amsterdam and den Haag. After that, there's no way I'd ever cycle in Dublin.

The joke cycle lanes here are one reason. Keep road existing width, paint a strip purple, now it's a magic cycle lane. The concept of separating cyclists from other vehicles with a kerb is beyond dublin city planners.

The other problem is the attitude of drivers to cyclists. I found in the Netherlands drivers had far more respect for cyclists - e.g. if you're on a cycle lane on a main road crossing a junction with a minor road, cars coming out of said minor road will actually give way to you. Or equally, cars turning off onto the minor road don't tend to cut you off without looking. That took a bit of getting used to. Works both ways though - a lot of cyclists here will ignore red lights, cycle on footpaths etc.

I can't see either of those factors changing here, so no cycling for me, despite the fact it wouldn't take me much longer to get to work and I'd get some badly needed exercise.

ardmacha

Dublin is flatter then amsterdam?

Sure if Mount Merrion was in the Netherlands it would be the higher than 99.99% of the country!

daymobrew

Do you cycle to work/school? Yes

How far do you live from work/school? 9 miles

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip? Yes

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle? Yes

I've been cycling to school/uni/work since I was 12 (that was in 1983) so it's a habit at this stage.

niceonetom

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not? :Yep

How far do you live from work/school? : about 5km, but i cycle for fun too.

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip? :YES

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle? :sure, cyclelanes are a good thing. they remind motorists that they share the road with smaller, slower, more crushable users.

i feel that the problem of lack of 'uptake' of cycling is due to the false idea that cycling in the city is worse than it is. it ain't that bad folks - it's actually fun sometimes :eek:

it's not that cold or wet. it's not that dangerous either. and the benefits are huge. fitness. low cost. freedom from the nightmare that is dublin traffic. general bloody wellbeing, i think.

i'd encourage people to give it a try, though maybe try to do it on a half-decent bike on a nice day. you might like it.

HeY-bEaRDo

dogmatix wrote: »

Dublin is flatter then amsterdam? For a minister who lives in dublin 16 or thereabouts he must not be cycling in and out of town too often. To get from the city centre to ballinteer you have to go up a steep hill after milltown, a not so steep (but bloody long) hill at the mental asylum and the worst hill of all, just after dundrum. Flatter? i don't think so!

Cycle paths are another problem - they are usually badly surfaced/prepared, and used as parking at all hours by cars.

Would you benefit from a facility on the luas that allowed you bring your bike to flatter ground? and would you use a bike if this was the case?

Stark

Better, safer cycle lanes. Cycle lanes that are segregated from the main traffic if possible and form interconnected routes, rather than just appearing and disappearing at random.

Better driver training and enforcement of the traffic laws.

daymobrew

HeY-bEaRDo wrote: »

Hey, i'm doing a project in college about Transport in Dublin.

You could post again in the Cycling forum.

dogmatix

Aye - the ability to bring bikes on public transport would be a good idea - they have external bike racks on buses in Vancouver. But I could not see it working on the luas as it is packed enough during the rush hour and having external racks on a luas or dart could have safety implications.

As for the hills - it's grand heading into town (just one uphill part just over the dodder at milltown), it's heading home in the evenings thats a pain.

For me however, the best way to make dublin more cycle friendly is for properly constructed cycle paths, more of them and ensure they are policed properly. And tackle bicyce theft in the city.

kmick

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not? Yes

How far do you live from work/school? 2km

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip? No Public transport is too unreliable for my short temperment

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle? Ban cars from the city centre and everyone would cycle or take the bus

Lets see if eamonn ryan puts his money where his bike is and introduces tax breaks for cyclists or bans cars from the centre. If he does the greens have my vote next time.

HeY-bEaRDo

kmick wrote: »

Lets see if eamonn ryan puts his money where his bike is and introduces tax breaks for cyclists or bans cars from the centre. If he does the greens have my vote next time.

Google offers their employees something like €200 to get a bike - this has been very successful considering they employ over 2000 people and have only 9 car park spaces. Mr Ryan said he would try and get a tax break for Google on this €200.

As far as banning cars from the city centre? i don't know if that could be done any time soon... the luas extensions need to be completed along with the M50 upgrade and perhaps the eastlink could be bought out with tax money and pearse street traffic could be re routed over that way?! a more realistic proposal is the introduction of a london style congestion charge - that would encourage people to find an alternative means of commuting while allowing essential access to those who need it.

gerrowadat

Banning cars from the city centre would involve having a public transport system that gets you there quicker. If you ban cars, and increase the commute time of 3 or 400k people by 10-15 minutes, that affects the economy in a measurable way.

Personally I find it hilarious how environment-loving bike riders advocate freedom on the roads, equal rights to them, etc., and then are the first to turn around and advocate banning stuff, which is pretty much the opposite of freedom. Present an alternative before talking about banning stuff.

carlmango11

It's wet
It's cold
You almost get knocked down like 400 times
You can't listen to music/radio (without being constantly cautious that there's a loud truck about to hit you)
You have to lock your bike in a good spot and hope someone doesnt rob everything but the wheel
It's tiring
It's a big change, and everyone knows that all these darn last generation Irish people hate change. "Are ye mad!? Why wud e soycle when eve got de caar!?"

a more realistic proposal is the introduction of a london style congestion charge

Agree with you there but I think I remember reading that it actually hasn't decreased traffic in Central London at all. Obviously the only people who drive into Central London and people who have no other decent means of getting in. Or just really hate public transport

Meh.

HeY-bEaRDo

carlmango11 wrote: »

I think I remember reading that it actually hasn't decreased traffic in Central London at all.

Congestion is down 30%. Fact.

carlmango11

Congestion is down 30%. Fact.

Cool, maybe a system like that might work here then

Capt'n Midnight

carlmango11 wrote: »

Cool, maybe a system like that might work here then

Except for one small detail. London has effective public transports system where if you want to get from A to B you don't have to change in the City Centre. Until we do it will be seen as a stealth tax.

Capt'n Midnight

HeY-bEaRDo wrote: »

Google offers their employees something like €200 to get a bike - this has been very successful considering they employ over 2000 people and have only 9 car park spaces. Mr Ryan said he would try and get a tax break for Google on this €200.

car parking spaces cost a lot more than €200

it would be nice if you could claim milage on bikes for business expenses
and tax brake on bike purchases would be nice too

DWCommuter

I don't know whether the OP is still hangin around or if my post will be of any assistance to them, but here goes.

I gave up cycling in 1992. (my last year of college) I sorely regret it as my weight increased and my dependency on Public transport shot through the roof. I had been using the bike as a means of transport since the age of 12. (school, shops, friends etc.) Even back then, cycling was not hugely popular, but I'd put that down to the expense of a bike and a dull economy. When I was growing up, my dad didn't have a car until I was about 11. He cycled to work to pick up his truck. But as soon as he had money (through redundency) he bought a car. Why? Well it was a luxury he could afford, it was a staus symbol and by his accounts, cycling in Dublin was a nightmare anyway. (Weather was one of the reasons he cited):D

In my opinion its all about culture. Dublin had more cyclists in the 50s and 60s because people couldn't afford cars. But as soon as they could afford them, they bought them. The bicycle was seen a a symbol of either poverty or leisure. Poor people struggled to buy one and then relied on it, while rich people used them at weekends for leisure after driving their cars all week. Just look back to the "emergency" period of Irish history. Sean Lemass heading to the Dail on a bike because of fuel shortages. Normally he went by car. The bike stunt was just that. A stunt. One which in hindsight highlighted how certain sections of Irish society were already heading towards car dependency.Then we planned housing in such a manner that the bicycle wasn't a particular appealing method of transport in terms of getting to work. The aspiration in Ireland was to get a car at the first opportunity. The "culture" that Im talking about never pushed the benefits of cycling. Nor did it encourage any initiatives to develop its potential.

For generations, the bicycle has been seen as the poormans mode of transport in Ireland. That is why 17 year old leaving cert students have cars. That is why college car parks are bursting at the seams with students cars. That is why the first loan most people ever take out, is a car loan. That is why our Government neglect cycling. That is why public transport is starved of proper funding and management. That is why our roads are clogged with cars.

Its all about culture.

trellheim

Do you cycle to work/school? YES

How far do you live from work/school? 2 miles

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?

yes - laws should be changed to allow offpeak bikes be brought on all trams and trains.

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?

Yes - the current cycle lanes are a complete joke.

the dee

I cycle to work and back every day. About 5kms each way. I work in Inchicore and live in Phibsboro. It takes half an hour.

I think more people don't cycle because everyone lives in the suburbs and works in the city. I used to live in Blanchardstown - no way I'd cycle into the city from there! And going back out would be all uphill.

Since I started cycling I have realised that Dublin is a lot drier than I thought. In the past 6 months, there have been about 7 days that I had to leave the bike behind because of rain. (this morning included). Dublin motorists need to learn a thing or two about dealing with bicyles in my opinion.

daymobrew

the dee wrote: »

Since I started cycling I have realised that Dublin is a lot drier than I thought. In the past 6 months, there have been about 7 days that I had to leave the bike behind because of rain. (this morning included).

You're right, it is a lot drier.

People think it is wetter because they haven't examined the data objectively.
If someone sitting at the window in their office sees it rain during the day they'll probably mark that day down as a rainy day. What that evaluation doesn't show is that it's quite likely that it wasn't raining during the commute, so, from a cyclist's point of view, it was a dry day.

Del2005

Could you imagine the amount of pedestrians who would be injured if all the people who drove started to cycle? When people drive cars most of then obey some of the rules. But, and here's a BIG generalisation, when people cycle most break all of them. If the people who drove started to cycle it wouldn't be safe to walk anywhere:D

Also in Amsterdam loads of people live in Amsterdam city centre. Very few people here live in Dublin city centre. Most people here live in suburbs which are kilometers from the city and there are loads of big hills coming out of Dublin, espically heading South.

Then we have the scumbag element here. You couldn't leave a bike on the side of any road and expect to come back with it intact. Over in Amsterdam they leave the bikes everywhere and no-one touches them,

Stark

Del2005 wrote:

But, and here's a BIG generalisation

Generalisations. How could you go wrong.

jman0

Del2005 wrote: »

Could you imagine the amount of pedestrians who would be injured if all the people who drove started to cycle? When people drive cars most of then obey some of the rules. But, and here's a BIG generalisation, when people cycle most break all of them. If the people who drove started to cycle it wouldn't be safe to walk anywhere:D
,

And yet, all of the pedestrian fatalities involve collisions with motorists.
Not sure about pedestrian injury but, where there's smoke there's fire...

Polar101

In some places the cycle lanes are pretty good (conveniently 90% of my commute has cycle lanes). And the poster above who said it doesn't rain all the time is quite correct - the weather doesn't usually prevent cycling.

However, the amount of broken glass on the streets makes cycling a worse option than it should be.. I haven't bothered to fix the bicycle since the last time I cycled over some ignorant idiot's broken bottles of beer.

Polar101

Del2005 wrote: »

Then we have the scumbag element here. You couldn't leave a bike on the side of any road and expect to come back with it intact. Over in Amsterdam they leave the bikes everywhere and no-one touches them,

I hear in Amsterdam the people usually have two bikes, a really crappy one they use for commuting (so the scumbags won't want to touch them), and a better one they wouldn't leave at the train station etc.

Del2005

jman0 wrote: »

And yet, all of the pedestrian fatalities involve collisions with motorists.
Not sure about pedestrian injury but, where there's smoke there's fire...

Where's your proof?

There are at least 2 threads on here where people have been killed by cyclists. And I never said anything about fatalities.

BoatMad

I remove all cycle lanes, complete waste of time, Dublin Co Co was actually asked to stop implementing them until they actually ascertained how many people where using them, its a frightful waste of effort for a tiny group of people

bk

BoatMad wrote: »

I remove all cycle lanes, complete waste of time, Dublin Co Co was actually asked to stop implementing them until they actually ascertained how many people where using them, its a frightful waste of effort for a tiny group of people

It is chicken and egg. If you don't have high quality cycle lanes, then people aren't going to cycle. If people don't cycle then you don't build cycle lanes

stovelid

Do you cycle to work/school?: Can't cycle to work. It's too far, and half of the journey is motorway.

How far do you live from work/school?: think it's about 20KM

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?: There is no convenient public transport route to my work from where I live, but if there was, I would.

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?: Most current cycle lanes are a joke. They either have cars parked on them, or cut so much into the road that motorists just ignore them.

Ste.phen

BoatMad wrote: »

I remove all cycle lanes, complete waste of time, Dublin Co Co was actually asked to stop implementing them until they actually ascertained how many people where using them, its a frightful waste of effort for a tiny group of people

Obvious troll is obvious.

Pigeon Reaper

Do you cycle to work/school?: No. I use a motorbike
How far do you live from work/school?: think it's about 16KM

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip?:Public transport isn't reliable to where I work. It also take an hour so I'd be as quick cycling the whole way.

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle?: Yes especially in around town. I used to cycle everywhere but have too many incidents with cars/buses/trucks around the city centre. I currenly work in Citywest and there are no safe feasible cycle routes to the estate. Being forced to cross 4/5 lanes of traffic numerous times to finally be led into a fence does not constitute a good cycle lane(N81 cycle lane in Tallaght)

BoatMad

you need to understand the difference between objection and trolling

I think a small number of proper segregated lanes should be built and then monitored for usage. I would then form a long term plan based on this analysis and the feedback from user groups

The current process just like bus lanes is being carried out merely to be seen to be politically correct. Bus lanes are an extremely inefficent use of valuable road space and essentially markedly decrease the carrying capcity of a road. Cycle lanes taken from conventional roads are similar.

Calling someone a troll is a feeble excuse not to engage in the debate

bk

BoatMad wrote: »

The current process just like bus lanes is being carried out merely to be seen to be politically correct. Bus lanes are an extremely inefficent use of valuable road space and essentially markedly decrease the carrying capcity of a road.

Not true, the majority of bus lanes carry far more passengers per hour, then a car lane. Studys have already been done on this.

Just because a bus lane isn't constantly full with buses, doesn't mean it is being under utilised. Remember just one full bus can be carry about 150 passengers, so just one bus can be the equivalent of 150 cars.

You seem to be one of those folks that think if there were less bus lanes that your car journey would be faster. You are mistaken, if there were no bus lanes, bus journeys would take far longer, which means bus use would be far less attractive, which would mean people would be even more likely to get a car instead and now your extra lane would be jammed up with an extra 150 cars.

If everyone who currently takes a bus, drove instead, the city would grind to a halt very quickly.

Stark

There's a thread on the bus lanes thing here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055214215

As for the cycle lanes, they take up feck all road space and people tend to drive on them anyway, so I don't see how they're decreasing the carrying capacity of the road. If anything, they're increasing it as the road can now carry a car and a bike as opposed to just a car, effectively doubling the capacity as most cars have just one occupant.

BoatMad

but the current cycle lanes are :-

(a) Generally hated by cyclists as they are very inadaguate

(b) a political excercise in white line painting ( blah blah..Dublin has now got xxxkms of cycles lanes blah blah...)

(c) not encouraging cycling , cycling is falling in popularity in Dublin

(d) Most current cycle lanes are a joke,

My tuppence

(a) Desist from the current practice of merely painting white lines and calling it a cycleway.

(b) Build fewer ( to start with) high quality cycle lanes, that are segregated from other users, (except walkers), are pleasent to use and an ameanity in their own right

(c) Monitor the usage and generate real data

(d) Proceed carefully on the baisis of real data.

edanto

Any comments would be a big help and if you could answer the following questions that would be even better:

Do you cycle to work/school? If not why not? Yip

How far do you live from work/school? 2k

Would you cycle if you could bring your bike on the bus/DART/Luas to shorten your trip? n/a

If safer cycle lanes were introduced would you be more inclined to cycle? More of my friends would. For your project, look at the new segragated cycle lane on the southbound side of O'Connell st, at the bridge end. There will be another lane like that going in contra-flow across the front of the Rotunda (Parnell Square South) so that we can cycle straight from Cinemax to Asiatown without going around the square.

The key problem and obstacle putting people off cycling in Dublin is the danger. There are hardly any routes through town that don't involve a few shonky bits where there is no space for bikes and some idiot driver trying to push past. There are no joined up routes for bikes, just patches of lane where they have the space. Add that to zombie pedestrians (partic at night) that think it's safe to just stroll out on to the road without looking when they don't hear a car and well it's all a bit hairy.

I've had a good few spills, nothing serious and all except one time it was someone else's fault. Each time I've taken the hit myself instead of crashing into the idiot - but next time... hmmm I dunno.

Gavin

The O Connell st segregated lane is not great, It's not possible to overtake slow cyclists while in it.

I don't believe there is a need for segregated lanes, bicycles belong on the road. Cycle lanes can lead to dangerous road positioning on behalf of the cyclist. Bicycle lanes (on roads) are a bandage, a short term solution to poor motorist education.

Thinkingaboutit

I wonder why more cycle lanes cannot be carved out of mostly unused suburban pathways and the generally unkempt grassy verges. People do block them by walking along them with double prams, or whatever, pretending they are not there, but where they exist but they make life easier. Also they are less likely to have every bit of glass and other assorted road crap on them. The minister must be smoking something strong if he thinks Dublin is flat.

Stark

Dublin is relatively flat. You couldn't subject it to a spirit level test, but compared to cities like Cork say, there are very few offputting climbs.