MAX Shooting Distance for a .22lr CZ 452

fiestaman

What is the range for CZ 452 .22lr. i know a lot will depend on ammo but what should i expect. Anyone got a good idea of scope power to put on, ie. 3-9x40 4-12x44 4-16x50. i was thinking HAWKE 4-16x44 or 50mm. what ammo should i use a moderator with? I will be shooting RATS PIGEON MAGS GREY'S RABBITS.

bunny shooter

fiestaman wrote: »

What is the range for CZ 452 .22lr. i know a lot will depend on ammo but what should i expect. Anyone got a good idea of scope power to put on, ie. 3-9x40 4-12x44 4-16x50. i was thinking HAWKE 4-16x44 or 50mm. what ammo should i use a moderator with? I will be shooting RATS PIGEON MAGS GREY'S RABBITS.

Hello, and welcome.

Ammo first: Speed wise you have from slower to faster - sub-sonic, standard, high velocity and hyper velocity. You have basically round nose and hollow point; round nose generally only any good for target. Hollow point is best for killing things.

Scope: IMO 3-9 x 50 is plenty for 22lr. Generally used on 6-7 x. Hawke are excellent for the money.

Moderator: Sub-sonics are quietest through moderator. However, they are most limited in the distance stakes. 75-80 yards if you are a good shot for clean kills. Some moderators (jet-z and SAK) are designed to cope with any ammo but they can still be loudish with hyper velocity.

Ranges: For your chosen species sub-sonics max 80 yards, high/hyper velocity max 140 yards for clean kills, depending on your abilities.

Brands of ammo: Subs = winchester super X or eley extra; high velocity = winchester powerpoints; hyper velocity = cci velocitor or winchester laser

It wasn't me!

What about that long-distance type shooting for rabbits that was talked about a while back? It was stated then that .22lr rounds would still have lethal impact force on a rabbit at 250 metres, though it's far from easy to hit them at that range. Perhaps that could be taken as a decent guide to maximum range, though obviously not to be attempted lightly. Also, there was a lot of expensive and special gear involved, and a CZ452 wouldn't really be capable of it methinks, so perhaps limit it a bit more. Frankly, what bunny shooter posted is adequately comprehensive for just about all shooters methinks, so perhaps take that advice for the time being.

bunny shooter

I read somewhere that shooting a 22lr at 200 yds is eqivalent to a 308 at 1000 yds

It wasn't me!

Yeah? So, possible, but shít tricky?

Or did you mean in terms of the energy of the round? If so, would .308 not still pack a lot more wallop?

maglite

max range 2 miles
max effective 300yrds
realistic and for what your shooting 50yrds shoiuld do it

ammo i like hp's in the sub vintage

scope mag, my preferance is high mag, but you need a good quality scope for it to work on high mag
at 20x mag you almost cant see the target at 150 trough a 50mm scope 0ed at 50yrds

and a cz is more than capible for hitting a rabbit at 200+ its you thats the problem not the tool, remembe rthe old addage,

^^^^above is theroretical and not ethical

bunny shooter

The OP wanted advice not a fairy tale

Jonty

To shoot a .22lr requires precise range finding. Its not impossible but its not very practical. To shoot rabbits at 200yds, buy a 17hmr.

fiestaman

bunny shooter wrote: »

Hello, and welcome.

Ammo first: Speed wise you have from slower to faster - sub-sonic, standard, high velocity and hyper velocity. You have basically round nose and hollow point; round nose generally only any good for target. Hollow point is best for killing things.

Scope: IMO 3-9 x 50 is plenty for 22lr. Generally used on 6-7 x. Hawke are excellent for the money.

Moderator: Sub-sonics are quietest through moderator. However, they are most limited in the distance stakes. 75-80 yards if you are a good shot for clean kills. Some moderators (jet-z and SAK) are designed to cope with any ammo but they can still be loudish with hyper velocity.

Ranges: For your chosen species sub-sonics max 80 yards, high/hyper velocity max 140 yards for clean kills, depending on your abilities.

Brands of ammo: Subs = winchester super X or eley extra; high velocity = winchester powerpoints; hyper velocity = cci velocitor or winchester laser

thanks a mill thats great info. i didnt think you would get a bullet that would be effective out to 120+ yrds. i would say they would be expensive?? what is the best zero range for cz452

Gerri

fiestaman wrote: »

thanks a mill thats great info. i didnt think you would get a bullet that would be effective out to 120+ yrds. i would say they would be expensive?? what is the best zero range for cz452

If you want consistent kills with a .22lr keep the range less than 70yds. That assumes good shooting ability and little or no crosswind. While a 3-9x50 would be ok a fixed six or eight power is more than enough at distances of 70 yds or less. Some of the previously posted info is factual but for consistent, humane kills i.e dead after the FIRST shot, 70yds or less, better if less than 70yds. The CZ 452 .22lr is not designed for long range hunting and most commonly available hunting ammo is not designed for long range kills and is not consistent enough for using at long range.

johngalway

bunny shooter wrote: »

The OP wanted advice not a fairy tale

:D:D:D:D Had to be said and I agree 100%

Your effective range on a .22lr in the field is the same, actually probably less given conditions, than you can consistantly make a kill zone hit on paper. Be consistant and humane Good hunting!

NoNameRanger

johngalway wrote: »

:D:D:D:D Had to be said and I agree 100%

Your effective range on a .22lr in the field is the same, actually probably less given conditions, than you can consistantly make a kill zone hit on paper. Be consistant and humane Good hunting!

Agree 100%, well said lads. Safe shooting for 2008

maglite

specificaly which part of my post was a fairy tale?

rrpc

I have to say that a lot of people here are understating the standard (subsonic) velocity .22lr.

With cheap ammo you can easily group within 4" at 100 yards. With a good rifle and target ammo you should be able to group around 2" and I'm talking club standard ammo here.

I've shot pigeons from a standing position out to 85 yards with the forerunner of the CZ452 and Eley subs.

So long as your sights are properly zeroed for the range, or you can read the elevation you should not limit yourself to shorter distances if your hold is good.

eoinkildare

out shooting the other day zeroing my new scope. bushnell elite 3200 firefly with a cz452 using sub sonic eley's. grouping just over half inch at about 50 yards. 5 shots. found that at 80 yards i had to adjust up by about 3 inches and the group spread out to about two inches. bit less reliable for field hunting at this range in my opinion. then went to 100 yards and found that the bullet really dropped away. dont think i would be happy with it at that range for hunting. maybe with a high velocity it would be a bit better.

went out that night and shot a bunny just behind the eye at about 40-50 yards at night standing shot. pretty pleased with myself as this was my first attempt at lamping!

so a bit of very recent info on range as i have found it.

cheers,
eoin

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

I have to say that a lot of people here are understating the standard (subsonic) velocity .22lr.
With cheap ammo you can easily group within 4" at 100 yards. With a good rifle and target ammo you should be able to group around 2" and I'm talking club standard ammo here.

You can get tighter groups than that:


However, 100 yards is close to the limit for DURC's club rifles - not because they loose accuracy after that, but because you can't wind the sights up any further

macnab

Lads, for ballistics info on .22 see this site. http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/22ballistics.html . As per the diagram, I have been zeroing my CZ452 at 18 yards. This should give an effictive 1" kill zone for up to 59 yards (taking different ammo into account) I have had good clean kills with rabbits up to 65 yards. I have just bought a new Leupold scope from Cabellas in the US, it cost $269 (€189) including postage to Boston where a friend will pick it up for me. Its a Leupold VX-ii 3-9x40, usually €300+ over here.

bitemybanger

Max shooting distance of a 22lr is further than you or i or anybody else on this forum could see a rabbit from,
Max distance for effectivly killing rabbits with a 22lr, well how far do you wanna be? on a good windy night you should be almost able to hit the buggers with the butt of your rifle never mind from 100+ yards:D

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

You can get tighter groups than that:

However, 100 yards is close to the limit for DURC's club rifles - not because they loose accuracy after that, but because you can't wind the sights up any further

I was referring to sporting rifles rather than target rifles in the field. For those who don't know, that picture is of the NSRA 100 yard target and the ten ring is just over an inch in diameter.

So the .22lr is a very accurate round over that distance.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

I was referring to sporting rifles rather than target rifles in the field.

I wonder if the sporting rifle's scope versus the target rifle's iron sights starts to even out the accuracy difference between the actual rifle barrels at that range?

pestshooter7

fiestaman wrote: »

What is the range for CZ 452 .22lr. i know a lot will depend on ammo but what should i expect. Anyone got a good idea of scope power to put on, ie. 3-9x40 4-12x44 4-16x50. i was thinking HAWKE 4-16x44 or 50mm. what ammo should i use a moderator with? I will be shooting RATS PIGEON MAGS GREY'S RABBITS.

With CCI velocitors I have shot a number or grey crows a 120 yrds+.
Zeroed 1.5 inches high at 50 yrds it shoots 4 inches low at 120. Groups of the bi-pod are about 2" at 100 yrds and 2.75" at 120. But these shots are only taken on very calm days. Use of a range finder is paramount.

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

You can get tighter groups than that:

However, 100 yards is close to the limit for DURC's club rifles - not because they loose accuracy after that, but because you can't wind the sights up any further

Not often it happens but I agree with Sparky

Using Eley subs HP I have gotten half inch groups at 50 yards and JUST under inch groups at 100 yards, rifle is Sako Quad, might do better once I get some spacers for the stock.

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

I wonder if the sporting rifle's scope versus the target rifle's iron sights starts to even out the accuracy difference between the actual rifle barrels at that range?

We must try out some of the target rifles with the sporting rifle scopes attached and test them out.

It wasn't me!

Slug Chucker showed me a target he shot at 50m with the 1807, set up for benchrest, scoped, and it would have been under a centimetre I'd say, five round group. So probably looking at the same sort of bracket.

rrpc

IRLConor wrote: »

We must try out some of the target rifles with the sporting rifle scopes attached and test them out.

You could always enter the 'any sights' competition in Bisley Conor. We used to do it every year when we went and one year I won the 50m, 100 yard and aggregate using iron sights.

I'd forgotten to bring my scope

Still have the medals somewhere in case you don't believe me

Slug chucker

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Slug Chucker showed me a target he shot at 50m with the 1807, set up for benchrest, scoped, and it would have been under a centimetre I'd say, five round group. So probably looking at the same sort of bracket.

A centimeter me hoop
It was 7.72mm from edge to edge at 50m prone, the target rifle was scope though but not rested on anything.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/SlugChucker/Picture002.jpg

bullets

Although a .17 and not a .22 at 50m with a CZ452 on a bi-pod and the butt
stuck to my shoulder while sitting its the best group I have got so far.

I'd love some training to get more consistent cos as soon as I go from 50m to
100m the shots start going all over the place and I know nothing about
whats the correct butt length or different holds and trigger pulls etc etc
or reading the wind etc etc Shooting a year now and still feel very green
would love to be able to be coached or to have an expert tell ya what
your doing wrong so you can correct it.

Thing about the .17 is it makes smaller holes and what looks like a great group
for a .22 looks a bit more ragged'y for the sweet sweet little ickle 17
I wanna be able to get a group like this ALL of the time or at least very constant
at 100m

Slug chucker

Nice group!
Isn't the .17 a high velocity round?
100 meter shooting is tough going and very unforgiving. You need a lot of pratice to keep them in the 10x. I think my best prone sporter score at 100 meters was only 185/200 with my best 50m sporter score being 197/200. The slightest twitch @ 100 and you miss by a lot.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Slug Chucker

It wasn't me!

To be fair, I did say under a centimetre.

rrpc

bullets wrote: »

Although a .17 and not a .22 at 50m with a CZ452 on a bi-pod and the butt
stuck to my shoulder while sitting its the best group I have got so far.

I'd love some training to get more consistent cos as soon as I go from 50m to
100m the shots start going all over the place and I know nothing about
whats the correct butt length or different holds and trigger pulls etc etc
or reading the wind etc etc Shooting a year now and still feel very green
would love to be able to be coached or to have an expert tell ya what
your doing wrong so you can correct it.

To learn to shoot in the wind you must have at least a couple of wind flags. These don't have to be big things, a two inch wide strip of a light waterproof material about a foot long on a swivel arrangement is best. The swivel is important so that the flag doesn't wrap around itself if the wind changes direction.

The first thing you need to know about wind is that the wind at the muzzle of the rifle has a much greater impact on the fall of the shot then the wind closer to the target. Put a wind flag about 10-15 metres from your firing point, another half way to the target and another about 10-15 metres from the target. Make sure they don't block your line of sight and you can see each one individually.

The impact of wind on your point of impact is astonishing once you know what it's doing. Take shots without changing your sights (preferrably you have set your sights indoors first). Higher velocity ammo will be affected more by the wind than lower velocity ammo (with the lighter .22 and .177 ammo). Measure the deviation of your points of impact in clicks of your sights and note them along with the flag position.

Soon you should be able to predict the fall of your shot reasonably accurately if you've been paying attention.

The object of the exercise to be able to 'choose' a wind to shoot on during a competition or while hunting. With experience you will be able to tell what the prevailing wind condition is and rule out gusts and eddies that are infrequent.

It takes time, but it's well worth it. I have seen people able to score in the high nineties at 100 yards in a howling gale.

Sparks

IRLConor wrote: »

We must try out some of the target rifles with the sporting rifle scopes attached and test them out.

Pretty good training technique that actually - shows up a lot about your hold and recoil. Think of it as a poor man's SCATT/RIKA/NOPTEL type setup

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Pretty good training technique that actually - shows up a lot about your hold and recoil. Think of it as a poor man's SCATT/RIKA/NOPTEL type setup

At 100 yards, you can actually see the bullet strike the target :eek: It's a bit offputting seeing this thing streak into the sight at the target.

And you can certainly see your wobble *very* clearly. I sometimes think that you make it worse by watching it. There's quite a temptation to try and correct minor tremors in your picture rather than wait for the optimum point for trigger release.

Probably put that badly, what I mean is you start fighting when you should be relaxing and allowing the sights to settle on the target. Very good though for seeing any problems with your trigger control.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Probably put that badly, what I mean is you start fighting when you should be relaxing and allowing the sights to settle on the target.

That'd be the thing you're training to do

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

That'd be the thing you're training to do

Indeed

Obviously not *that* badly phrased so

Slug chucker

I might start reading wind speeds while out hunting. I had never given it much thought before but missed a few mags around the 120-130 yard mark on a fairly blustery day over the Christmas holidays. The shooting position was comfortable and I've regularly shot rabbits hitting point of aim out to 210 yards from it on better days. I brought the rifle to the range the next day to check it just in case and it was spot on. I reckon the wind drift was just pushing the round off the target. Time to do a bit of further reading on the matter

Yes, I could of also missed three times also

Are of hand held anemometers any use for a rough guide to wind speed, I know they won't tell you the conditions on the way to the target but just to give you the general jist of the conditions?