Driver faces ban for lack of speeding.

mike65

from telegraph

A woman who suffers from a clinical fear of driving is facing a ban after police caught her creeping down a motorway at 10mph.

The phobia was revealed in court after Stephanie Cole, 57, pleaded guilty to driving without reasonable consideration.

Police spotted Mrs Cole on the M32 in Bristol in her mini MPV - with a sign in the back which read "I do not drive fast, please over take" - at 1pm on Aug 30 this year.

She was straddling the hard shoulder and the inside lane on the 70mph motorway and, despite driving at a walking pace, repeatedly jammed on her brakes.

Officers pulled Mrs Cole over only to be told: "I'm scared. I've no confidence on the motorway. Last time this happened the policeman drove me there."

Mrs Cole, of Fishponds, Bristol, pleaded guilty to driving without reasonable consideration by letter yesterday at North Avon magistrates' court. The case was adjourned for her to appear in person as she is likely to be banned.

In a letter, read to the court, Mrs Cole said her GP had been treating her for a "fear of driving" for the past three and a half years. She said: "I think a driver improvement course would help."

The chairman of the bench, Malcolm Richardson, said: "We have no doubt that the bench should seriously consider banning Mrs Cole from driving for this offence.

"It's unfortunate that the current requirements of the driving test would not require Mrs Cole either to drive on the motorway or at night, both of which are an issue with her medical condition.

"We shall adjourn the case till Jan 4. I hope she doesn't drive here."

*shakes head*

Mike.

Lemming

I feel quite sorry for the lady in question. She needs help overcoming a mental phobia, not banned from driving. She's obviously tried to cope with it (and also put up a sign in her back window for knob-end drivers who like to intimidate) but so far her attempts haven't been enough.

Not sure if it could be done legally, given she already has a driving license, but perhaps placing a restriction on her license to include 'x' amount of driving time with an instructor to improve her confidence and a stipulation that she not be allowed onto a motorway without being accompanied by a qualified driver (much like the Irish provisional license is meant to do).

I know a couple of people who are terrified of driving; both young and older alike. And in any case, the UK motorways can be very intimidating for an inexperienced or nervous driver, which wont help at all.

D_murph

mike65 wrote: »

from telegraph



*shakes head*

Mike.

X2. unbelievable :eek:. ive been stuck behind a few before but that is the worst ive ever heard of.

almost seems a bit harsh to ban her for this but she is clearly incompetent i suppose and doing 10mph on a motorway is just going to end badly so it might be the safer option.

ejmaztec

She'd be overtaking quite a few other drivers here in Kerry - they'd think her car was a blur!:D

Owen

Jesus. If you can't drive, then don't. It's akin to putting someone with a fear of heights and switches behing the yoke of a plane.

Stark

Fully deserved imo. There are plenty like her who are too afraid to use the motorway safely, but won't use the alternative route as they consider it less convenient.

Ciaran500

What the hell was she doing on a motorway if she can't drive on them

Lemming

D_murph wrote: »

she is clearly incompetent i suppose

So being terrified = incompetent now? The article makes no mention of her driving when not on a motorway, although it wouldn't be an unreasonable guess to make that she'd be among the slower, more cautious drivers out there.

and doing 10mph on a motorway is just going to end badly so it might be the safer option.

That's an interesting comment to make. Why is it going to end badly? Aren't you meant to be driving defensively at all times? i.e. aware of what's going on around you and adjusting your driving and speed to suit the conditions/circumstances rather than being a bumper-riding cock-bite?

Granted if she's that nervous on a motorway, she needs to be restricted from motorway use for now (for her own state of mind if nothing else) until she's done some confidence building with an instructor and then taken from there onto a motorway with an instructor and/or qualified driver.

mike65

Lemming 10mph on a motorway is suicidal. Max speed is notionally 70 in reality its 80, no-one is expecting a herd of cattle on a motorway and no-one is expecting a car doing 10 on a motorway. Its the nature of the environment.

Mike.

Stark

Lemming wrote:

That's an interesting comment to make. Why is it going to end badly? Aren't you meant to be driving defensively at all times? i.e. aware of what's going on around you and adjusting your driving and speed to suit the conditions/circumstances rather than being a bumper-riding cock-bite?

You can't excuse bad driving on the basis that other drivers should be driving defensively. It'll end badly when bad driver A meets bad driver B.

Owen

Lemming wrote: »

So being terrified = incompetent now?

Yes. She is incompetent to use a Motorway, and has endangered other drivers by doing so, so I wouldn't hold much faith in her non-motorway abilities either.

Would you put someone terrified of blood in the position of being a surgeon? No, you'd consider them incompetent.

I would of took her off the road too, speeding can kill but so can 10mph driving.
The amount of micra's here on the road with 60+ year old drivers doing 10mph is a joke

Run_to_da_hills

a slow driver can just be just as lethal as a speeding driver, ie it encourages fustration and dangerous manouvers from others attempting to overtake. She broke the law as there is a minimum speed limit on motorways.

Lemming

mike65 wrote: »

Lemming 10mph on a motorway is suicidal. Max speed is notionally 70 in reality its 80, no-one is expecting a herd of cattle on a motorway and no-one is expecting a car doing 10 on a motorway. Its the nature of the environment.

And what's one of the first things you're taught when learning to drive? Do not trust what the other driver may or may not do. Expecting x, y, or z wont save you in a car-crash. Which I guess is partly why we have so many car-accidents in this country. The standard of driving, notably among qualified drivers, is shockingly bad (we expect learners to not be of high-standard and yet I've witnessed better driving from that exact category more often than not).

But anyway, before I go off-tangent, whilst I agree she should not be on a motorway unsupervised given her current state of mind, she was straddling the hard-shoulder, not sitting square in a driving lane. If I saw someone doing that it would raise a flag immediately; car trouble, nervous driver, or drunk. And then adjust my driving to suit what is now a possibly unpredictable driver.

By all means, remove her from motorways until she's had professorial help to address the problem, but howling for immediate banning really doesn't solve anything. Unless of course you are that concerned about getting one car-space up in traffic tomorrow morning ....

Lemming

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Slow driving can just be as lethal as speeding, it encourages dangerous manouvers from other drivers attempting to overtake.

This is something I've never understood. The "It's all person x's fault. They were driving too slow for me, so I got impatient and tried to overtake. I made a rash, poor judgement call but person x is to blame. They made me do it!!!!eleventyone!1111!!!"

B*llcks. As irritating as an overly-slow driver can be, nobody's forcing you to make a dangerous maneuver. You decide to do it because the other driver's speed does not suit you and you are impatient for whatever reason which is entirely inside your own head.

Owen

Lemming wrote: »

By all means, remove her from motorways until she's had professorial help to address the problem

Well, I agree in part, I think a 3 month ban from ordinary driving as a slap on the wrist would be a wake up call to her that she needs to change her driving habits. She needs psychological help, both with her phobia of motorway driving, and her attitude towards other road users. She could have chosen B roads to do her driving, but she made the conscious decision to break all the rules. Her sign in the window is proof that she knew what she was doing is wrong.

peasant

Lemming wrote: »

This is something I've never understood. The "It's all person x's fault. They were driving too slow for me, so I got impatient and tried to overtake. I made a rash, poor judgement call but person x is to blame. They made me do it!!!!eleventyone!1111!!!"

B*llcks. As irritating as an overly-slow driver can be, nobody's forcing you to make a dangerous maneuver. You decide to do it because the other driver's speed does not suit you and you are impatient for whatever reason which is entirely inside your own head.

This *may* apply on a country road where someone is doing 60 instead of the entirely possible 80.

But not on a motorway.

A motorway only works because everyone is moving at a minimum speed or over.
Driving at 10 mph is not driving at all ...you might as well go out there and park your car on the motorway.

That's suicidal & attempted murder all in one package

Orange69

Lemming wrote: »

This is something I've never understood. The "It's all person x's fault. They were driving too slow for me, so I got impatient and tried to overtake. I made a rash, poor judgement call but person x is to blame. They made me do it!!!!eleventyone!1111!!!"

B*llcks. As irritating as an overly-slow driver can be, nobody's forcing you to make a dangerous maneuver. You decide to do it because the other driver's speed does not suit you and you are impatient for whatever reason which is entirely inside your own head.

You don't drive a micra by any chance?

Lemming

ned78 wrote: »

Well, I agree in part, I think a 3 month ban from ordinary driving as a slap on the wrist would be a wake up call to her that she needs to change her driving habits. She needs psychological help, both with her phobia of motorway driving, and her attitude towards other road users.

Which comes first? The chicken or the egg? If you ban her from all driving, she can have all the psychological help she needs but none of the practical help. So she'll be back to square one in short order after three months.

Motorway driving, restricted to supervision only at a bare minimum. She might actually do with some off-peak motorway instruction for her confidence tbh. I can still recall the first time I went on the M50 (full license holder before anyone asks). I was f*cking ****ting it. What helped was that I had two lads in the car with me (one a qualified driver too), and it being early Sunday morning meant there was sod all traffic. Which helped build my confidence no end.

as for her attitude to other road-users, I don't really think that's a problem here given that I know a couple of people who are terrified of driving. They're more afraid of other road users and getting in the way whilst trying to get from point a to b than anything else - which of course makes them more likely to make mistakes as a result. Bit of a similar mindset to an inexperienced / learner driver with only a few hours under their belt.

She could have chosen B roads to do her driving, but she made the conscious decision to break all the rules. Her sign in the window is proof that she knew what she was doing is wrong.

No argument there, although we are making assumptions regarding the road network in the area.

mike65

There is something to be said for having a Motorway Classification for the driving licence system. To get the licence you have to pass a special test (and be given a psychological profile)

Mike.

D_murph

Lemming wrote: »

So being terrified = incompetent now? The article makes no mention of her driving when not on a motorway, although it wouldn't be an unreasonable guess to make that she'd be among the slower, more cautious drivers out there.



That's an interesting comment to make. Why is it going to end badly? Aren't you meant to be driving defensively at all times? i.e. aware of what's going on around you and adjusting your driving and speed to suit the conditions/circumstances rather than being a bumper-riding cock-bite?

Granted if she's that nervous on a motorway, she needs to be restricted from motorway use for now (for her own state of mind if nothing else) until she's done some confidence building with an instructor and then taken from there onto a motorway with an instructor and/or qualified driver.

are you for real? if 10mph on a motorway is all she can manage and even hitting the brakes at that i reckon she would do half that on a back road so dont make me laugh about her being one of the more cautious drivers out there :rolleyes:. she cant drive.

if you cant see how 10mph on a motorway will end badly then i hope i never share a road with you :rolleyes:. granted it will need to be another bad driver thats not watching the road but someone will hit her from behind and 70mph - 10mph = 60mph. pretty serious impact and at 10mph she will be on the road a lot longer and there is more time for it to happen.

as far as taking her off the motorway and training her goes, it might be difficult but its the first sensible thing you said on here .

galwayrush

She would fit right in on some of our roads here in Galway:rolleyes:

Lemming

Orange69 wrote: »

You don't drive a micra by any chance?

This ^^ is the exact stereotype I would expect to associate with the lame ass "they made me do it" mantra.

What if I don't drive a micra? Or a BMW? Or a Jeep? Or an M1 Abhrams MBT? (which I'd quite enjoy just to drive it over your car and wipe whatever smug grin is on your face off it).

An overly slow driver is an overly slow driver regardless of what they're driving. I've seen plenty of all sorts on the roads.

Orange69

Lemming wrote: »

This ^^ is the exact stereotype I would expect to associate with the lame ass "they made me do it" mantra.

What if I don't drive a micra? Or a BMW? Or a Jeep? Or an M1 Abhrams MBT? (which I'd quite enjoy just to drive it over your car and wipe whatever smug grin is on your face off it).

An overly slow driver is an overly slow driver regardless of what they're driving. I've seen plenty of all sorts on the roads.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

mike65

Lemming maybe you should read your sig line

Mike.

Henry Ford III

Driving way too slow is just as likely to cause an accident as driving way too fast.

It's also illegal. If the lady cannot drive safely, her ban will have been merited.

A bit of a sad case, but life sucks sometimes.

Lemming

D_murph wrote: »

are you for real? if 10mph on a motorway is all she can manage and even hitting the brakes at that i reckon she would do half that on a back road so dont make me laugh about her being one of the more cautious drivers out there :rolleyes:. she cant drive.

if you cant see how 10mph on a motorway will end badly then i hope i never share a road with you :rolleyes:. granted it will need to be another bad driver thats not watching the road but someone will hit her from behind and 70mph - 10mph = 60mph. pretty serious impact and at 10mph she will be on the road a lot longer and there is more time for it to happen.

Well, look at it this way, driving at 10mph whilst half-straddling the hard-shoulder is not really much different to someone who is pulling over onto the hard-shoulder and obviously slowing down to do so, or traffic in front of you that has slowed down to a halt at the rear-end of a long line of traffic on the motorway. If you aren't paying attention and/or are unable to judge that you are rapidly approaching an object and need to slow down, it's your fault. Not theirs.

The onus and responsibility (which she also really needs to think about from her own perspective) is on you to drive defensively and safely. That applies to motorways as much as lower-class roads.

Orange69

Lemming wrote: »

Well, look at it this way, driving at 10mph whilst half-straddling the hard-shoulder is not really much different to someone who is pulling over onto the hard-shoulder and obviously slowing down to do so, or traffic in front of you that has slowed down to a halt at the rear-end of a long line of traffic on the motorway. If you aren't paying attention and/or are unable to judge that you are rapidly approaching an object and need to slow down, it's your fault. Not theirs.

The onus and responsibility (which she also really needs to think about from her own perspective) is on you to drive defensively and safely.

Ya we should probably allow people to have little tea parties on the motor too eh? :rolleyes:

Lemming

Orange69 wrote: »

Ya we should probably allow people to have little tea parties on the motor too eh? :rolleyes:

Orange69, did you miss the part where I suggested to remove her from the motorway in an unsupervised fashion? :rolleyes:

Of course she shouldn't have done what she did. But the commentary that's coming out of some of you is equally as well thought-out.

Pete4779

Lemming wrote: »

That's an interesting comment to make. Why is it going to end badly? Aren't you meant to be driving defensively at all times? i.e. aware of what's going on around you and adjusting your driving and speed to suit the conditions/circumstances rather than being a bumper-riding cock-bite?

There is a minimum speed on motorways for a reason - the flow of traffic is safer if speed is maintained by all travellers. She was straddling the hard shoulder and lane - so people behind her doing 70mph would see a car half in half out of the lane, doing far less than is legal or expected.

She shouldn't be on the road breaking the rule about minimum speed and driving in the hard shoulder = likely to cause an accident.

And her GP shouldn't be treating a mental health issue.

Zascar

It always amazes me how many drivers on Irish roads can get away with traveling on a single lane main roat at way under the speed limit, holding everyone up and not bothering to pull in so others can overtake safely, instead forcing them to make sometimes dangerous overtaking manovers. These people should be taken off the road until they learn how to drive properly and with confidence like the rest of us,

peasant

Lemming wrote: »

Well, look at it this way, driving at 10mph whilst half-straddling the hard-shoulder is not really much different to someone who is pulling over onto the hard-shoulder and obviously slowing down to do so, or traffic in front of you that has slowed down to a halt at the rear-end of a long line of traffic on the motorway. If you aren't paying attention and/or are unable to judge that you are rapidly approaching an object and need to slow down, it's your fault. Not theirs.

The onus and responsibility (which she also really needs to think about from her own perspective) is on you to drive defensively and safely.

It is plain ovious that you haven't got the foggiest of how to drive/behave on a motorway (not that that surprises me in this country)

You DO NOT "pull over" onto the hard shoulder on a motorway.

If you ever have an emergency and need to stop on the motorway, you move out to the hard shoulder and only then you slow down ...and then you get the f*ck out of the car before somebody almost inevitably crashes into it.

If you come up on a stationary queue of cars, it will be just that, a queue, al ot of them ...so you know what to expect.

You do NOT expect a single car to be near stationary ...that's what makes it so dangerous

D_murph

well theres a reason why no pedestrians, cyclists, L drivers and vehicles under 50cc etc are allowed on motorways. because they will not be able to keep up with the flow of traffic and are a danger to themselves or others and she was going slower than them all.

also the hard shoulder is only to be used in emergencies and it is illegal to straddle it in the first place so she was breaking the law as well :rolleyes:.

Lemming

peasant wrote: »

It is plain ovious that you haven't got the foggiest of how to drive/behave on a motorway (not that that surprises me in this country)

You DO NOT "pull over" onto the hard shoulder on a motorway.

If you ever have an emergency and need to stop on the motorway, you move out to the hard shoulder and only then you slow down ...and then you get the f*ck out of the car before somebody almost inevitably crashes into it.

We do not know how busy the motorway was at the time. It doesn't say in the article. And I have seen people slow down whilst moving onto the hard-shoulder. They may not have been crawling whilst doing it but I have noticed drop in speed whilst moving over. It does happen. And you should never ever, ever assume what the other driver is going to do. Or not do.

If you come up on a stationary queue of cars, it will be just that, a queue, al ot of them ...so you know what to expect.

Again, I have actually also seen this happen on the M50. Quite possibly one of *THE* most bizarre accidents I have ever witnessed at that I might add. Nothing serious thankfully, but a car came up on a line of traffic and then swerved into the median barrier. And it happened at about 40kph.

Once again, never assume what the guy in front is or is not going to do. You should be paying attention.

You do NOT expect a single car to be near stationary ...that's what makes it so dangerous

Is that what you say when you have an accident? Does it somehow undo whatever damage is caused? Once again. Never assume what the guy in front is or is not going to do. You should be paying attention.

So many people have used words like "expect" with relation to driving on motorways And yet we keep having accidents on them. Small wonder ...

Anyway, we've digressed well beyond the original point of this thread. My apologies to mike65.

mike65

Driving on the hard shoulder IS an offence.

Mike.

D_murph

its a penalty point offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway.

http://www.irishmotoring.ie/cms/publish/Penalty_points_section/Penalty_Points.php

peasant

Lemming wrote: »

We do not know how busy the motorway was at the time. It doesn't say in the article

It does not matter, how busy the motorway was or wasn't.

TomMc

I'm pretty sure you would fail a driving test if 10mph was the most you could manage.

S.I.R

tough luck , if you are scared to drive , don't.

ninty9er

ned78 wrote: »

Jesus. If you can't drive, then don't. It's akin to putting someone with a fear of heights and switches behing the yoke of a plane.

I have vertigo...I don't climb in high open spaces....when we went to Delphi on a school trip I sat most of it out.

If you're afraid to the point where you're a danger to others then don't do whatever in the first place

Ban fully deserved!

LuckyStar

Zascar wrote: »

It always amazes me how many drivers on Irish roads can get away with traveling on a single lane main roat at way under the speed limit, holding everyone up and not bothering to pull in so others can overtake safely, instead forcing them to make sometimes dangerous overtaking manovers. These people should be taken off the road until they learn how to drive properly and with confidence like the rest of us,

I was driving along a back road this morning. The speed limit is 80kph. I was doing 60 at the most. Why? It was dark and raining, the road was wet and very bendy. Would I be a better driver if I had been going at 80 under those conditions?

I accidently got onto the M50 today. Scared the bejaysus out of me. I took a wrong turn after making a detour to a shop and next thing I know I am headed for the motorway with nowhere to turn around. I was scared because I have only ever driven on dual carriageways before. I think I was doing about 60, I stayed well to the left so anyone who wanted to could overtake me. After what seemed like forever I was able to take the first exit off it and the sat nav guided me home. I had absolutely no idea where I was so without the sat nav I would have been screwed. Best €240 I ever spent.

_Kaiser_

I don't understand the debate here. The woman in question isn't competent to drive (the specific reason is irrelevant) thus shouldn't be on the road. Simple!

ninty9er

mike65 wrote: »

Driving on the hard shoulder IS an offence.

Mike.

clarify that so that some of the slow coaches amongst us don't think they can't pull a little left for you to pass!!

martinr5232

If its like here which i presume it is you have signs on entry to the motor way clearly stating.

No L drivers.
No slow moving vehicles

She is a pile up waiting to happen.
Imagine coming up behind her in thick fog.
If you cant drive you shouldnt be on the roads sorry for being so harsh but there is to many being killed on the roads to have any sympathy for someone that is lacking in confidance.
There is a much better standard of public transport in england so if she is driving at ten mile an hour she would be better off getting it she would probably be quicker getting to where she wants to go.
Surley she passed her test or she wouldnt be able to drive unacompanied.

phasers

women drivers..


why is she driving if shes scared of it?

get her off the roads

Stark

Lemming wrote: »

But anyway, before I go off-tangent, whilst I agree she should not be on a motorway unsupervised given her current state of mind, she was straddling the hard-shoulder, not sitting square in a driving lane. If I saw someone doing that it would raise a flag immediately; car trouble, nervous driver, or drunk. And then adjust my driving to suit what is now a possibly unpredictable driver.

So you'd argue if favour of drunk drivers not getting banned as well on the basis that the rest of us sober drivers should be able to react to them?

Lemming wrote:

By all means, remove her from motorways until she's had professorial help to address the problem, but howling for immediate banning really doesn't solve anything. Unless of course you are that concerned about getting one car-space up in traffic tomorrow morning ....

If she had she been showing due consideration to other road users, there would be no need to remove her from motorways and get her help, she would have voluntarily abstained from motorway driving. Even if she was a competent driver on non-motorway roads, which I sincerely doubt, there still needs to be repercussions for her lack of consideration.

Toon--soldier

Lemming wrote: »

This ^^ is the exact stereotype I would expect to associate with the lame ass "they made me do it" mantra.

What if I don't drive a micra? Or a BMW? Or a Jeep? Or an M1 Abhrams MBT? (which I'd quite enjoy just to drive it over your car and wipe whatever smug grin is on your face off it).

An overly slow driver is an overly slow driver regardless of what they're driving. I've seen plenty of all sorts on the roads.

the top speed of a M1 abram is 45mph so its too slow to go on a motorway

and how anyone was supposed to read that sign when there going past her at 70mph

maybe she just its compotent to drive, it shouldnt be assumed that everyone has the abillity to drive properly

mike65

clarify that so that some of the slow coaches amongst us don't think they can't pull a little left for you to pass!!

ninty9er (and everyone else) driving on a motorway hard shoulder is an offence, on a single carraigway its legal if potentially hazardous.

Mike.

Wishbone Ash

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

She broke the law as there is a minimum speed limit on motorways.

The law states that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at a specific speed on a motorway. It does not mean that the said vehicle must travel at that speed or in excess of that speed.

Zascar wrote: »

It always amazes me how many drivers on Irish roads can get away with traveling on a single lane main roat at way under the speed limit, holding everyone up and not bothering to pull in so others can overtake safely, instead forcing them to make sometimes dangerous overtaking manovers

It's a speed limit not a target speed. Pulling into the hard shoulder is frowned upon in advanced driving circles and pulling into the hard shoulder of a motorway is illegal.

If a driver feels the need to make dangerous overtaking manoeuvres then that driver needs to review their own driving skills as they are not capable of adjusting their skills to the prevalant road conditions.

Guy:Incognito

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's a speed limit not a target speed. .

Do your test at 10mph and see do you pass so.

Wishbone Ash

Stekelly wrote: »

Do your test at 10mph and see do you pass so.

Pull into the hard shoulder and 'see do you pass so'!