Women Of The Year 2007

Lita Forever

After seeing Vince's " Wrestler Of the Year" thread, I've decided to do a Woman Of The Year thread using Vince's point system.

The idea is simple enough. Simply choose the top 3 women you think had the best in ring showings in 2007. This is based purely on wrestling skill and not looks. So sorry Mr. Nice Guy, but Maria's not going to win.

Each number one choice will get 5 points, number two will get 3 points and number 3 will get 1 point. At the very end I'll count up the scores and post the top 5.

Since I know everybody isn't as interested in women's wrestling as I am, I'd really like to hear everyones opinions as to why they make their particular choices. Here's my top 3:

1. Gail Kim

TNA's women's division is really proving to be a refreshing alternative to WWE's right now. WWE's division still hasn't recovered from losing Trish and Lita. Instead of using what they had in Mickie, Melina, and Jillian, they tried for a quick fix solution with Candice and Beth..and it hasn't been working. I've been enjoying TNA much more, and Gail is a big reason for that.

Even before the start of the women's division, Gail was making great strides, and putting on solid matches in TNA, Japan, and the indies. She can work a variety of styles; lucha, technical, submission, and even hardcore, as evidenced by her streetfight with Jackie Moore, and her recent brawls with Kong. Her move set is varied, and she almost always busts out something new in her matches. To clinch the deal, her feud with Kong has become the top reason to watch TNA for me.

2. Melina

Melina, along with Mickie James, has really held the division together over the last year. They remind me of Victoria and Molly in 2004, and Ivory and Jacquelyn in 2000. No matter what T & A crap or nonsensical booking happens in the division, you can always rely on these two to deliver a solid wrestling match. It's sad that their best work has been hidden away on heat this year, but they did have what, in my opinion, was the best WWE women's PPV match of 2005, at Backlash. It's solid work all the way when these two work together.

3. Mickie James

See # 2.

As for some of the other women:

If there was a fourth spot, I'd surely have given it to Candice Michelle . Yes, she was over pushed before she was ready, and she's far from being great. But she did run with the ball WWE gave her, and did improve tremendously. She was able to hang with women way more experienced like Beth and Melina, while still learning and progressing. Her injury was unfortunate, but once she returns she'll only get better. Which is just as well really,as WWE have no interest in doing storylines/ angles for any woman not named Candice.

Beth Phoenix looked solid, but she's not over or established enough yet. Again, she'll be one to watch in 2008.

Amazing Kong had a good year, but most of her matches consisted of squashes. She really only had one competitive match in TNA. I've seen a ton of her work from Japan, Chickfight, Shimmer and more, but since everyone on this board has only seen her TNA work, that's what I'm judging her on.

Torrie Wilson and Victoria looked okay, but both have been around for a long time and didn't do anything new this year. Jackie Moore and Traci Brooks looked very solid and had some good matches, but not enough stand out performances. Jillian Hall , while always talented, is only now getting on a roll. The likes of Maria , Michelle McCool , Kelly Kelly , and Layla have shown ever so slight glimmers of improvement, but are a far far way off being any way good in the ring. The rest of the TNA Knockouts aren't yet established. The likes of Cherry and Maryse did nothing.

I haven't included Shimmer in this as most of you probably haven't seen it. I am considering in the future making an intro to Shimmer type post in the future for the uninitiated, if anyone is interested in that reply and let me know.

Yeah, I wrote a LOT, lol, but I was bored. Obviously, you don't have to explain your choices that thoroughly, but one or two sentences would be good. Oh and I also posted some reference videos for people in the video thread. Yes, I was THAT bored

Tricity Bendix

1. Amazing Kong

I know what the OP was getting at when she said that she has competed in nothing but squashes, but I'd rather watch Kong destroy someone than watch the 'E try and make Torrie Wilson or Kelly Kelly look credible. Amazing Kong is freakin' scary and I think her work to date makes her the number one woman in wrestling.

2. Gail Kim

Very versitile and extremely entertaining. One of the best things about TNA these days. She definately brings credibility to that strap.

3. Melina

After the loss of Trish and Lita, Melina really stepped up and ran with her opportunity. I love her in-ring work. She brings so much personality into her matches. Her innovative chokes and her visciousness, she just oozes Queen B!tch.

rossie1977

wrestling wise; gail kim by a mile, if programmed correctly gail kim and amazing kong can be america's answer to Manami Toyota and Aja Kong, am i expecting too much from tna here?? probably, but we will wait and see

eye candy wise; maria by a mile, the girl just oozes sex appeal

Edit: my other two are:
2.Beth, great comeback and a very good heel
3.Amazing Kong, has impressed me a great deal since her debut on tna

Bubs101

1. Tracy Brooks.
I feel really sorry for her. She was effectively the only decent woman on TNA (Christy Hemme has gone to ****)for 10 months and carried the female prescence in the company but since they've brought in the title she's lost any aclaim that she has rightfully earned getting Roode over.

2. Melina
Her character is brilliant. Personally, I'm very unlikely to watch a woman's match because the standard is so much worse than the mens so I prefer when a Diva has more of a gimmick and a good character. For me, Melina ticks those boxes

3. Maryse.
It's so nice of her to remind me I'm watching Smackdown

Fozzy

Nice post. My picks would be:

1. Gail Kim - She was being wasted hanging out with AMW, she must have been so happy when TNA got their women's division up and running. As bad as TNA are, her feud with Amazing Kong is one thing that they have done right. It hasn't been overbooked or run over with pointless gimmick matches, they've got Gail over as a face and Kong over as a heel, and they've created a situation between them where fans want to see them fight. And that showed at the last PPV (or was it the one before?) when they had a great match together and the fans were so into it. If TNA could approach every other feud like this then people would care about the other wrestlers too. Gail is a shining light in TNA. Great cage match with Jackie too

2. Melina - I think she's been the first proper heel womens wrestler in WWE in a while. Her match with Mickie at Backlash was a really good heel performance and I loved it. She's better as a wrestler than a manager I think and I'd have liked to see a bit more focus on her and the womens title, because she can deliver with a good opponent more than some other stuff that WWE likes to push

3. Daizee Haze - I've mainly seen her in ROH this year and she's done very well there. I'd probably have put Sara Del Ray ahead of her here, because Sara has been just as good, but I watched a 2 out of 3 falls match between them from CHIKARA and it was all Daizee. She really impressed me. And that match she was in at the start of the year in ROH, Dedication I think it was, a 6-man tag with Brent Albright and Jimmy Jacobs in it, she was so tough in that match! She got a massive bump on her forehead from a guardrail but she kept on fighting, she got a great ovation from the fans after that

Honourable mention goes to Lacey, who has improved again this year. She is always fun to watch, whether she's wrestling or not! Candice has really improved, although there's still room for more, but looking at how she was last year no one has improved more than her. Amazing Kong has been doing very well for herself, she plays her part great

ODB is looking like one to watch in TNA next year, but TNA have done a bad job with all of the new girls apart from Kong. They keep sticking them all in multi-women matches, making it hard for the fans to get a chance to know any of them. It's just like if you're at a party and you're introduced to five new people, you'll find it hard to remember all their names. But if you're just introduced to one every couple of weeks you'll be able to remember them. They should be putting each new girl in singles matches with women that the fans already know

I'll end on a note other than my TNA-hating...I'd like to see more focus put on Melina and Mickie in the women's division next year, and Beth too. It looks like they're goin to have Candice win the belt at WM, and if she keeps up her improvement rate then I'll have no problem with watching her on tv

Lita Forever, a Shimmer thread would be nice. I've been meaning to watch a full show but I've only seen bits and pieces and the Shimmer showcase matches in ROH, but I've usually liked what I've seen. Nattie Neidhart looked great there in a match I saw of hers, I'd like to see her thrown into the women's division. Just wondering, what stuff of Kong's have you seen from Japan? I saw a tag match she was in at the start of the year and I loved it, but I completely forgot to go back and watch some more stuff

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

1. Tracy Brooks.
I feel really sorry for her. She was effectively the only decent woman on TNA (Christy Hemme has gone to ****)for 10 months and carried the female prescence in the company but since they've brought in the title she's lost any aclaim that she has rightfully earned getting Roode over.

Really? Whenever she wrestles I'm just reminded of her matches with Trinity back in the day and how good Trinity was and how bad Traci was. Traci's completely replaceable I feel

Lita Forever

Traci had a distinctly mediocre feel to her in ring work in her early TNA days, and her indie work wasn't up to much either. In recent times though she does look to have improved. She's not overly great, but she can put together a good short match. Her match with Gail Kim on the TNA Knockouts DVD being one example.

Fozzy, I haven't seen a great deal of her Japan stuff, being that it's so hard to find. I've seen a fair bit though. A lot of my old media is on my old PC. But off the top of my head I've seen her match with Nattie Neidhart, which I believe is till on Youtube. There was an intergender tag involving Steve Corino. And a couple of other tags, one with Aja Kong. When I'm not so tired tomorrow, I'll try to dig some of those out for you. Great reply btw. I totally agree about Daizee. Ive been a fan of hers ever since her TNA X-plosion match with Trinity years ago. But if I had included her and other Shimmer girls I would have kept talking forever. Lol.

Bubs, seeing as this is based on wrestling. I'll disregard your vote for Maryse. Seeing as she hasn't had a match on TV and I'm assuming you haven't seen her OVW work. Lol.

Thanks to all that replied so far. I forgot to mention in my original post, this is open until next Thursday.

Mr.Nice Guy

Lita Forever wrote: »

This is based purely on wrestling skill and not looks. So sorry Mr. Nice Guy, but Maria's not going to win.

What? Maria must win! :eek: Nah sure everyone knows Maria is the best looking but as for in-ring skills my top three picks would be...

1. Candice Michelle

Frankly I'm flabbergasted that she hasn't featured more prominently in this thread! She really stepped up big time in 2007 and to her credit wrestled some very good matches. She reminds me a lot of Trish Stratus in that she successfully made the transition from eye candy to in-ring competitor.

2. Beth Phoenix

She came back from her injury and made herself into a very credible heel. I enjoy the Glamazon gimmick and I think she is one to watch in the future.

3. Awesome Kong

From the clips I've seen of her it's no surprise she's made the women's division in TNA compelling viewing. I think she has an impressive presence and has been one of the few bright spots for TNA in '07 in my view.

I must say also I'm surprised Melina has been mentioned as often as she has. While she did have some good matches - the feud with Mickie in particular - I find her very sloppy and haphazard. I recall her having a number of botches throughout the year, including her ring entrance! Not a good year for her if you ask me.

rizzla

1. Gail Kim

2. Awesome Kong

3. ODB

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

Really? Whenever she wrestles I'm just reminded of her matches with Trinity back in the day and how good Trinity was and how bad Traci was. Traci's completely replaceable I feel

I'm not saying that she's a great wrestler, as I said in my Melina answer I tend not to watch women's wrestling. Personally, I think there best role is to get certain wrestlers over and she has got Roode over, helped with Kaz's push and Eric Young's. I think it is very unfair to forget the work she did for 10 months in favour of the 2 or 3 months that the knockouts have been there

Vince135792003

1. Melina

2. Mickie James

3. Candice Michelle

I really liked the Melina/Mickie James feud. Sure it wasn't perfect in the ring but there was an intensity about it (perhaps due to their history) that made it work. I haven't seen enough of TNA to comment on other female wrestlers.

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

I'm not saying that she's a great wrestler, as I said in my Melina answer I tend not to watch women's wrestling. Personally, I think there best role is to get certain wrestlers over and she has got Roode over, helped with Kaz's push and Eric Young's. I think it is very unfair to forget the work she did for 10 months in favour of the 2 or 3 months that the knockouts have been there

I'm not forgetting any of her work before the women's division, back when she was with Matt Bentley she was terrible! In TNA this year, the most entertaining that the women have been has been when they've been in the ring. That is the best role for the women in TNA I think, I just don't think that Traci's all that good at wrestling or any other role. To be honest, I think she's been a burden on Roode, another guy who I used to really enjoy watching but now no longer care about

Double C

1) Sara del Ray - She's the Bryan Danielson of the womens wrestling world in my opinion (she even used the Final Countdown as her entrance a few times ). She is the well deserving Shimmer champion AND she is a member of Sweet and Sour Inc. I haven't seen a whole lot of Shimmer but from what I have seen shes the best. Slightly ahead of...

2) Daizee Haze - As Fozzy said above, she's as tough as nails and has looked very impressive this year, especially as part of the bigger picture in the Whtmer Jacobs feud which lasted over a year.

3) - Mickie James - I can't not pick Mickie.

Tricity Bendix

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

1. Candice Michelle

Frankly I'm flabbergasted that she hasn't featured more prominently in this thread! She really stepped up big time in 2007 and to her credit wrestled some very good matches. She reminds me a lot of Trish Stratus in that she successfully made the transition from eye candy to in-ring competitor.

Meh. Her bout with Melina when she won the title turned me against her instantly. She was terrible. Her 'spinning heel kick' was actually just her sticking her ass in Melina's face. She only really had one move to hit in that entire match and she botched it. She did improve massively for the next match, but her year - and, I believe, the WWE Women's Championship - was tainted by her sloppiness/inability.

I must say also I'm surprised Melina has been mentioned as often as she has. While she did have some good matches - the feud with Mickie in particular - I find her very sloppy and haphazard. I recall her having a number of botches throughout the year, including her ring entrance! Not a good year for her if you ask me.

I can only remember one major botch, which is the one where she screwed up Mickie's leg scissors. She has been getting votes because she is very passionate and can tell a story in the ring better than any other female wrestler in the WWE.

RebelRockChick

Since I never see ROH or TNA mine are all WWE based

1. Candice Michelle

She has really improved so much this year compared to when she first started out and really did deserve her title reign this year!

2. Beth Phoenix

Great to see her back after her brief time before her injury, was looking forward to seeing her back and she didn't disappoint- the Glamazon!

3. Melina

Also enjoyed her title reign this year. Has improved and is great on the mic!

Machismo Fan

1. Logic would naturally indicate, Gail Kim. The best womens wrestler in National America. She is ever consistant and will always put on a great match.

2. Awesome Kong, the woman would destroy most of the men in TNA.

3. Angel Williams/Angelina Love: Despite my wanting to put in just for her looks, I must resist. She has impressed me in her few months she has been in TNA.

EdK

You are a liar esse

Mr.Nice Guy

b.ie polar wrote: »

Meh. Her bout with Melina when she won the title turned me against her instantly. She was terrible. Her 'spinning heel kick' was actually just her sticking her ass in Melina's face. She only really had one move to hit in that entire match and she botched it. She did improve massively for the next match, but her year - and, I believe, the WWE Women's Championship - was tainted by her sloppiness/inability.

I can only remember one major botch, which is the one where she screwed up Mickie's leg scissors. She has been getting votes because she is very passionate and can tell a story in the ring better than any other female wrestler in the WWE.

How can you be so critical of Candice based on one perceived botch and yet be so blind to Melina's botchfests? Melina botches practically every bout she wrestles in. She's about as fluid as a piece of granite. Her arms and legs end up flailing about all over the place along with her hair and add her annoying screams into the picture and it's like the ladies are having to wrestle a wild savage.

As for telling a story, often I find she looks completely lost when she's in there. The good matches she had with Mickie were down to Mickie.

Terry

1. Mickie James.
2. Candice Michelle.
Both good in the ring.

3. Leticia Cline for her performance on the Howard Stern show.

slicus ricus

1. Beth Phoenix - She was very unfortunate to be injured at the start of the year just as she was about to get pushed. I thought she came back exceptionally well and has produced solid matchs. I also think she plays her character very well and gets a lot of heat, which is obviously the sign of a good heel.

2. Mickie James - Solid in-ring performances all year, deserves more of a push. She should never have been turned face; I thought her pyscho heel character was excellent and she played it so well. She also has great aggression in the ring, which I thought really suited her old heel persona. I wonder if the x-rated (porn, far from playboy) pics she did back in the day are a contributing fact to her not getting pushed harder.

3. Melina - Much like Mickie, solid in-ring performer; deserves more of a push. I think she lost a lot of her momentum when they separated her from Nitro/Morrison.

This may be controversial, but im gonna say it anyway. How in the hell can anyone consider Candace Michelle to be a good worker? She still can't work at all and has to carried 100%: Even when she was working Phoenix, the matchs were only passable at best. I really think shes all over the place in the ring. Fair enough, she's improved over the last year but she's still ****e! How WWE can justify pushing her ahead of Mickie & Melina, I will never know! She's not even that hot either!!

In terms of hotness, im gonna go for Kelly Kelly (the future Mrs. Slicus Ricus!:p), Maria and Melina in that order!

Fozzy

slicus ricus wrote: »

I wonder if the x-rated (porn, far from playboy) pics she did back in the day are a contributing fact to her not getting pushed harder.

I doubt it, she's already been pushed in a big way when she had the feud with Trish and the Wrestlemania match. Candice has been in similar things too

slicus ricus wrote: »

This may be controversial, but im gonna say it anyway. How in the hell can anyone consider Candace Michelle to be a good worker?

I'm kind of surprised that she's getting so much praise too. I just praised her because I think that she's really improved from where she was, which was just dire, but I still don't rank her close to the other women being mentioned here. Any good match that she's had has still been mainly due to her opponent

Mr.Nice Guy

slicus ricus wrote: »

This may be controversial, but im gonna say it anyway. How in the hell can anyone consider Candace Michelle to be a good worker? She still can't work at all and has to carried 100%: Even when she was working Phoenix, the matchs were only passable at best. I really think shes all over the place in the ring. Fair enough, she's improved over the last year but she's still ****e! How WWE can justify pushing her ahead of Mickie & Melina, I will never know! She's not even that hot either!!

What? Course she can work. She's held up fine in several PPV matches. She's still got a lot to learn obviously but to say she can't wrestle is ridiculous. They wouldn't have put the strap on her if they felt she was poor in the ring.

slicus ricus wrote:

In terms of hotness, im gonna go for Kelly Kelly (the future Mrs. Slicus Ricus!:p), Maria and Melina in that order!

OK now I know you have poor taste! No one beats Maria in the hotness stakes.

Lita Forever

Wow, people are actually debating about women's wrestling ..cool.

Tricity Bendix

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Melina botches practically every bout she wrestles in.

Thats just hyperbole. You're going to have to back this up with specific instances, because I just don't get what you're talking about.

She's about as fluid as a piece of granite. Her arms and legs end up flailing about all over the place along with her hair and add her annoying screams into the picture and it's like the ladies are having to wrestle a wild savage.

You're right, it is like the other women are wrestling a savage. That is exactly what Melina is going for. Its her personality, which shines through in every match she is in.

As for telling a story, often I find she looks completely lost when she's in there. The good matches she had with Mickie were down to Mickie.

Without taking anything away from Mickie James, I think you are being entirely unfair. Melina controlled large portions of those matches, and did so with some pretty cool offense which had nothing to do with Mickie. Melina has also worked well with Jillian Hall, Chirsty Hemme, Trish Stratus and Candice Michelle. Those matches weren't as good as the Mickie ones, but they were still good.

They wouldn't have put the strap on her if they felt she was poor in the ring.

So they've never had a poor in-ring champion? Are you sure about that?

Mr.Nice Guy

b.ie polar wrote: »

Thats just hyperbole. You're going to have to back this up with specific instances, because I just don't get what you're talking about.

Hyperbole? No, observation. Watch her recent Raw match for example. She was all over the shop. Every time I see her she looks sloppy.

b.ie polar wrote:

You're right, it is like the other women are wrestling a savage. That is exactly what Melina is going for. Its her personality, which shines through in every match she is in.

There's a difference between wanting to portray a savage wrestling personality, and just being so ungodly awful in the ring that you come across like an actual savage.

b.ie polar wrote:

Without taking anything away from Mickie James, I think you are being entirely unfair. Melina controlled large portions of those matches, and did so with some pretty cool offense which had nothing to do with Mickie. Melina has also worked well with Jillian Hall, Chirsty Hemme, Trish Stratus and Candice Michelle. Those matches weren't as good as the Mickie ones, but they were still good.

While I don't dispute that she can have good matches, I don't believe she has actually pulled one out for months and months. Being able to count her good matches on one hand to me says that she is not an example of a good wrestler.

No one can seriously make a case that she has been fluid and consistent on Raw the last few months. She looks so awkward and clumsy when she's in there.

b.ie polar wrote:

So they've never had a poor in-ring champion? Are you sure about that?

You'd have to go back 7 years, when they put it on Stephanie McMahon, to find the last time they put the belt on a woman lacking in-ring skills. Generally speaking you need to be able to do the business in the ring to be given the women's championship. The fact that Candice has it shows you that people like Vince McMahon and Fit Finlay feel she has the capacity to do the division justice and in 2007 this has proven to be the case - even with that sh*tty entrance theme of hers.

Bubs101

I think the fact that Torrie has never had the belt is a sign they value the wrestling aspect more

slicus ricus

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What? Course she can work. She's held up fine in several PPV matches. She's still got a lot to learn obviously but to say she can't wrestle is ridiculous. They wouldn't have put the strap on her if they felt she was poor in the ring.

I thought some of her PPV matchs were absolutely awful. I dont think they gave her the strap because of her wrestling skills!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

OK now I know you have poor taste! No one beats Maria in the hotness stakes.

As hot as Maria is, Kelly Kelly is just that much hotter!

Lita Forever

The way I see it, they gave Candice the belt for a couple of reasons. A part of it WAS to do with her in ring skills. I don't believe Candice was good enough at the time for her to have a run with the belt, but in WWE's eyes, I guess she had improved to such an extent, and in a quick fix solution, they were trying to find the next Trish. I mean. they were following the EXACT same formula as Trish's 2002 push;

1. Challenger wins title.
2. New Champion makes a couple of credible title defenses against ex champion.
3. Champion faces new challenger, manges to score the first victory before eventually losing the title..

I'm confident had Candice not been injured these next steps would have happened..

4. Champion regains the title before moving onto yet another challenger. ( This would probably have been Nattie or another debuting diva.) There's no telling how long WWE would have continued this process. Until they felt Candice as over to Trish's extent I suppose.

I'm kind of tired of WWE trying to find a quick fix solution. Instead of them trying to find the next Trish, they should just concentrate of creating the first Nattie Neidhart, the first Katie Lea, etc..just my opinion anyways.

rossie1977

slicus ricus wrote: »

As hot as Maria is, Kelly Kelly is just that much hotter!

:mad: no way, are you blind

Lita Forever

Okay, not trying to be a kill joy here, but can keep discussion to wrestling skills and not how hot the women are. I created this topic so women's wrestling could be discussed just this once for a change. I don't want it turning into why bimbo 1 is hotter then bimbo 2.. Thank you.

Tricity Bendix

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Hyperbole? No, observation. Watch her recent Raw match for example. She was all over the shop. Every time I see her she looks sloppy.

You mean the one where she spent approx. thirty seconds in the ring? The one where she had to sell McCool's "arm drag"? The one where Kelly Kelly showed she isn't even talented enough to take a clothesline? All over the shop? She was barely in the shop! She had one spot to sell, which was a jawbreaker that sent her off the ring-apron. And she sold it well.

There's a difference between wanting to portray a savage wrestling personality, and just being so ungodly awful in the ring that you come across like an actual savage.

Ah, come on. Ungodly awful? She isn't the greatest female wrestler on the planet, but even you admit she can have good matches.

While I don't dispute that she can have good matches, I don't believe she has actually pulled one out for months and months. Being able to count her good matches on one hand to me says that she is not an example of a good wrestler.

Actually, I counted those with whom she has had good matches. She had a series of good matches with Mickie and wrestled Trish more than once. In fact, she has performed well against every credible wrestler she has been put against. I wouldn't judge her on her work with Kelly Kelly, Maria, or those early matches against Michelle McCool and Torrie Wilson. That would be unfair. Remember, the WWE doesn't exactly have a derth of female wrestlers for Melina to work with. The only other names that I could include would be Lita and Victoria, but its hardly Melina's fault she never wrestled those two.

No one can seriously make a case that she has been fluid and consistent on Raw the last few months. She looks so awkward and clumsy when she's in there.

Meh. She's been wrestling mostly in tag matches where she is supposed to work of Maria. It hasn't been the most exciting period of her career, but I gave her the nod for her work over the year as a whole.

Mr.Nice Guy

b.ie polar wrote: »

You mean the one where she spent approx. thirty seconds in the ring? The one where she had to sell McCool's "arm drag"? The one where Kelly Kelly showed she isn't even talented enough to take a clothesline? All over the shop? She was barely in the shop! She had one spot to sell, which was a jawbreaker that sent her off the ring-apron. And she sold it well.

If you honestly think her performance there was an example of a fluid wrestler in action which you seem to be claiming she is, then I suggest you ask Santy for glasses this Christmas. Name me an example of a match in the last 6 months where she has wrestled it fluidly and without appearing to be all over the place.

Being "in tag matches where she is supposed to work of Maria" as you put it is no excuse for HER being bad. Mickie James and Beth Phoenix don't look bad when they're in there with the likes of Maria. Why? Because they are fluid and not clunky.

b.ie polar wrote:

Ah, come on. Ungodly awful? She isn't the greatest female wrestler on the planet, but even you admit she can have good matches.

Yes I do admit she can have good matches but what good ones have there been recently? And even in her good matches she looks clumsy at times.

b.ie polar wrote:

Actually, I counted those with whom she has had good matches. She had a series of good matches with Mickie and wrestled Trish more than once. In fact, she has performed well against every credible wrestler she has been put against. I wouldn't judge her on her work with Kelly Kelly, Maria, or those early matches against Michelle McCool and Torrie Wilson. That would be unfair. Remember, the WWE doesn't exactly have a derth of female wrestlers for Melina to work with. The only other names that I could include would be Lita and Victoria, but its hardly Melina's fault she never wrestled those two.

Well I don't know what matches you're watching but I don't recall seeing a "series of good matches" with Mickie. I recall one, maybe two, matches of theirs which was impressive and I do recall the match with Christy Hemme which admittedly was impressive though it was well over a year ago. Even in those matches however she staggers about, flails her body everywhere and looks like an amateur.

Surely the art of a good pro wrestler is to be able to go in there and make things look effortless and smooth and make it all look easy. Melina doesn't do any of that. She goes in and looks haphazard, awkward, tense and nervous. She CAN be good on occasions and she CAN put on an entertaining match once in a while but it seems to me anyway that for most of 2007 she has been poor. To label her one of the top 3 females of 2007 is extraordinary to me. What has she done of note this year? Nothing.

slicus ricus

Lita Forever wrote: »

Okay, not trying to be a kill joy here, but can keep discussion to wrestling skills and not how hot the women are. I created this topic so women's wrestling could be discussed just this once for a change. I don't want it turning into why bimbo 1 is hotter then bimbo 2.. Thank you.

While i completely understand where you're coming from, its kinda tough not to stray off the womens wrestling discussion a little bit given the way WWE book the womens division.

I would be a big fan of womens wrestling when its done properly i.e. 2 good workers having a match. For example, some of the matchs Mickie James and Melina had were exceptional; even some of the Mickie vs. Trish matchs were very good. Then they go and ruin it by thorwing a playboy model called Candice Michelle into the title mix. What happens? The standard of womens title matchs drops and all the credibility the division has gained through the above matchs is ruined.

This is gonna be another controversial contribution by myself, but i've started so i'll finish... Given the predominently male audience wrestling has, it makes sense for WWE to have attactive women wrestling for them - you have to bear in mind that the majority of WWE fans are not smart to the business and wouldnt have a clue what a good match involves. That being said, Mickie James, Melina, Nattie Neidhart, Jillian Hall, Katrina Waters, Victoria, and Beth Phoenix fit that criteria (all of them are good looking girls) AND are good workers. Why not have them main eventing the PPVs instead of Candice Michelle?

There is a place for the likes of Candice, Maria, Kelly Kelly etc and its nowhere near a the womens title. On one of the recent PPVs there was an 8 woman tag match consisting of good and awful workers: Why? Whats the point? Why not just use the good workers? Candice with a few years of hard work might be worthy of holding the title but she aint now.

Rant over!:D

Mr.Nice Guy

slicus ricus wrote: »

There is a place for the likes of Candice, Maria, Kelly Kelly etc and its nowhere near a the womens title. On one of the recent PPVs there was an 8 woman tag match consisting of good and awful workers: Why? Whats the point? Why not just use the good workers? Candice with a few years of hard work might be worthy of holding the title but she aint now.

Rant over!:D

Don't compare Candice to Maria and Kelly as it's like comparing MVP to the Great Khali. A sexy Khali but you get my point.

Don't understand the hate for Candice. She went from pure eye candy to a credible main event female wrestler and has shown the most in-ring improvement since the great Trish Stratus. She still has lots left to learn. Watch her in 2008 as I'm sure she'll be even better.

slicus ricus

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Don't compare Candice to Maria and Kelly as it's like comparing MVP to the Great Khali. A sexy Khali but you get my point.

Fair point, Candice is a fair bit ahead of those 2; didnt mean to imply that they were all at the same level.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Don't understand the hate for Candice. She went from pure eye candy to a credible main event female wrestler and has shown the most in-ring improvement since the great Trish Stratus. She still has lots left to learn. Watch her in 2008 as I'm sure she'll be even better.

I dont have any "hate" for Candice tbh; I just dont think she is a credible main event female wrestler. It just pisses me off that she was getting uber pushed and put on PPV title matchs when the likes of Mickie, Melina, Jillian and Victoria were wrestling on Heat.

Terry

Mr. Nice Guy wrote:

Don't compare Candice to Maria and Kelly as it's like comparing MVP to the Great Khali. A sexy Khali but you get my point.

LMAO. That's going in my sig.

Lita Forever

Sorry I didn't get around to counting up the votes sooner, but it's just been one mad week. Lol. First of all, I'm surprised at the amount of women that received votes. I expected the same 2 or 3 women to be repeatedly mentioned, but I'm pleasantly surprised. It was good to see the likes of Sara Del Ray and Daizee Haize get mentions. I knew Fozzy and Double C were intelligent posters before..but they definitely have my respect now..lol. In all, 11 wrestlers received votes, which is good.

I was pleased at the level of discussion that took place as well. I couldn't believe women's [/i] wrestling [/i] was being discussed. Yeah a little bit of T & A talk crept in, but as Slicus mentioned, you have to expect that.

As for the results themselves, the top two choices were clear enough. However the remaining three spots are all ties. Perhaps that's an encouraging sign with regards to the wide variety of female talent out there. There's not just one or two prominent talented women, there's a varitey of talent. That's a positive sign. Anyways, here's the results;

1. Gail Kim- 28 points

2. Melina- 17 points

3. * Tie* Beth Phoenix & Candice Michelle- 14 points

4. * Tie * Mickie James & Awesome Kong- 13 points

5. * Tie* Sara Del Ray & Traci Brooks- 5 points

Thanks to all that participated in this. I had a good time doing it.