Do you find the term "****" offensive?

azezil · 20-12-2007 4:20pm #1

With the recent mini drama with the BBC1 radio station editing out the words "slut" and "****" from 'a fairy tale in newyork' because "some listeners might take offense", personally I believe they went too far by editing the lyrics but in any event it got me thinking, do most people find the term "****" offensive?

the dee · 20-12-2007 4:40pm

I'm not gay but I think that this argument is more to do with people objecting to a classic song that everyone knows being censored than with gay people being offended or not.

I get the feeling that is wasn't gay people who claimed they were offended by these lyrics but some uptight overly PC people on the gay community's behalf. I may be wrong, but why did no one object before? This song gets played to death every christmas!

Stark · 20-12-2007 5:03pm

the dee wrote: »

I get the feeling that is wasn't gay people who claimed they were offended by these lyrics but some uptight overly PC people on the gay community's behalf. I may be wrong, but why did no one object before? This song gets played to death every christmas!

Always the way really. I remember reading that gay rights groups themselves protested against the censorship of the song.

I do find the word itself offensive, even if I don't agree with censoring a classic song.

L1011 · 20-12-2007 6:46pm

Depends how its delivered, and by who. In the sense of the song I don't... in the Dire Straits song which they oddly enough don't bleep, it is.

anotherlostie · 20-12-2007 7:53pm

It is totally dependent on how it is delivered!

If some little knack walking down the street shouted '****' at me then I would be offended/ irked. But it doesn't stop me calling a mate a **** if I think he's done something particularly effeminate (my own defining characteristic for using it I suppose), such as comment on Letitia Dean's outfits on Strictly Come Dancing (while my bf would consider me a '****' for watching the show in the first place!).

So as usual with these questions, IT DEPENDS.

Cokehead Mother · 20-12-2007 8:04pm

I don't think it's at all offensive.

The only situations wherein it is offensive, would be just as offensive if the word homosexual was used.

For example,

"That man is predominantly sexually attracted to males, I believe him to be a ****" isnt offensive.
"That man is predominantly sexually attracted to males, I believe him to be a homosexual" isn't offensive

"EW, FAGGOTS!!!" is offensive
"EW, HOMOSEXUAL MALES!!!" is offensive

Same for n*gger really. (Should so not be censored btw)

Boston · 21-12-2007 10:38am

You can really come along and decide what is and isn't offensive for others Cokehead Mother.

ixoy · 21-12-2007 11:42am

Discussing this last night after hearing the song, and I also disagreed with the (now reversed) censorship decision. In the context of the song, it's not offensive. It's directed at one person in a bitter, sweet relationship and fits the song. If the song had been something like this:
"You scumbag, you maggot, death to all faggots"
then I'd be offended.

I think anotherlostie summed it up best - it's the context and intent behind it.

azezil · 22-12-2007 2:07pm

Talk about irony, someone yelled "****?" over to me last night when I was headed to town, it sounded like a question so I just burst my shít laughing!

Cokehead Mother · 22-12-2007 6:01pm

azezil wrote: »

Talk about irony, someone yelled "****?" over to me last night when I was headed to town, it sounded like a question so I just burst my shít laughing!

I think it was a pick-up line.

Stark · 22-12-2007 6:09pm

azezil wrote: »

Talk about irony, someone yelled "****?" over to me last night when I was headed to town, it sounded like a question so I just burst my shít laughing!

What was ironic? That anal incontinence chose precisely that moment to catch up with you?

ixoy wrote:

"You scumbag, you maggot, death to all faggots"

Very poetic. A career in hate filled songwriting awaits you

studiorat · 23-12-2007 3:21pm

Fag or to fag was a common term in British schools from the late 1700s, refering to lower class students who performed chores for upper class students.
This term was also in fashion at Harvard in the first half of the 19th century, it died out by the mid-1800s in the states.

In 19th century England the term "****" used in reference to an ill-tempered woman, i.e., a ball-buster, a battleaxe. That meaning of the term continued into the early 20th century, and the usage was gradually applied to children as well as women.

Keeping in mind the 18th century ballad style of McGowans lyrics, one could argue he was using the word in an historical context...

Must in the same way as the user Anotherlostie mentions the "some little knack" refering to the historical Knacker no doubt.

Sir Ophiuchus · 28-12-2007 4:16pm

In the song "Fairytale of New York"? No. As a hate-filled epithet from drunken (or not) idiots? Yes.

Other meanings of the word **** include:

1) a bundle of sticks
2) a particular type of meatball

In fact, as late as the 1950s, a British company making these ran the ad campaign, "Surprise your husband with a ****!" Actually true.

Zillah · 28-12-2007 7:18pm

I love saying **** day to day. Its a great word. I use it for male and female friends alike. "Hey, you faggots coming to the pub or what?"

For two reasons:
- I like protesting against pointless PC stuff.
- If **** is said enough people will get desensitised to it.

Boston · 28-12-2007 7:22pm

Zillah wrote: »

I love saying **** day to day. Its a great word. I use it for male and female friends alike. "Hey, you faggots coming to the pub or what?"

For two reasons:
- I like protesting against pointless PC stuff.
- If **** is said enough people will get desensitised to it.

More then likely people will just view you as a tool who says things simply to be controversial /moronic.

Overheal · 31-12-2007 8:22pm

People find ****** offensive, and some other people find **** offensive: so if youre a gay black person - well, sh*t.

No, I avoid such mean labels

L1011 · 31-12-2007 9:19pm

Overheal wrote: »

People find ****** offensive, and some other people find **** offensive: so if youre a gay black person - well, sh*t.

No, I avoid such mean labels

I note with interest that boards.ie's filters find one offensive and not the other!

Rev Hellfire · 01-01-2008 7:43am

Boston wrote: »

More then likely people will just view you as a tool who says things simply to be controversial /moronic.

More than likely most people will not simply notice.
From what I can see most people don't have issues with the word **** which isn't associated with the same sort of negativity as the word N****r.

Boston · 01-01-2008 11:46pm

People consciously or sub consciously take note of what others say/do. Now most people wouldn't react to someone constantly using the term **** for the shake of it, but mentally a few boxes like "Insecure" and "child" will start to be ticked.

JupiterKid · 07-01-2008 9:34pm

I find the term "****" highly offensive. It's IMO the gay equivalent of "******."

That said, I don't think Fairytale in New York should have been edited. Kirsty McColl did'nt intentionally set out to offend gays with that line. And anyhow the song came out in 1987 when there was very different social climate to the LGBT community. You couldn't get away with those lyrics in a new song today.

JupiterKid · 07-01-2008 9:36pm

Interesting how the N word was automatically edited from my post but "****" was not? Maybe the mods here could raise this with the Admins of Boards.ie? I'm not really happy with such selective anti-discrimination policy.:mad:

L1011 · 07-01-2008 10:24pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

Interesting how the N word was automatically edited from my post but "****" was not? Maybe the mods here could raise this with the Admins of Boards.ie? I'm not really happy with such selective anti-discrimination policy.:mad:

I raised the same issue in post 17, I'm not terribly pushed over it and I suspect its an oversight, but its an oversight none the less.

Boston · 08-01-2008 8:45am

Its a feature of Vbulletin. The admins don't have a policy of adding or subtracting things from the swear word filter, but rather leave it at default settings. If you wish to have to term added to the swear word filter, post a thread in the helpdesk forum. I suggest you do so in a polite manner as an accusative tone is more then likely to get their backs up.

JupiterKid · 09-01-2008 6:36pm

I made a complaint to the admins about the "Fggt" word not being banned on boards.ie whereas the N word was. It looks like the admins have decided to ban the Fggt word.

I hope no-none sees me as being overly PC about this...:D

Boston · 09-01-2008 7:18pm

Cool. See the system does work, you just have to know how to go about it.

BuffyBot · 09-01-2008 8:08pm

Actually, I do.

Boston · 09-01-2008 8:09pm

Wasn't saying you didn't.

BuffyBot · 10-01-2008 12:01am

Well, he did ask

Stark · 10-01-2008 12:04am

JupiterKid wrote: »

I hope no-none sees me as being overly PC about this...:D

As long as I still get to say mittens.

Excellent...

Varkov · 14-01-2008 1:39am

99% of the time when I say f@ggot it's not ment to be a derogatory way of calling someone homosexual.

Sh*thead : Im not saying your head is disgusting and smelly

C*nt : Im not saying your a giant vagina

Porch monkey : Your lazy, not neccicerily black and lazy.

The gays always seem to be so uptight about this sort of thing. Like getting f@ggot sensered from boards? C,mon.

L1011 · 14-01-2008 7:16am

Yet when you use it, you're attributing homosexuality as something undesirable and insulting to the party you're "accusing" of it - thats the problem.

Varkov · 14-01-2008 9:01am

But isn't it something undesirable for most people?

Stark · 14-01-2008 10:51am

Varkov wrote: »

99% of the time when I say f@ggot it's not ment to be a derogatory way of calling someone homosexual.

Sh*thead : Im not saying your head is disgusting and smelly

C*nt : Im not saying your a giant vagina

Porch monkey : Your lazy, not neccicerily black and lazy.

The gays always seem to be so uptight about this sort of thing. Like getting f@ggot sensered from boards? C,mon.

So you regularly call people things like shithead and cunt and expect them not to get offended?

markw999 · 14-01-2008 12:36pm

Varkov wrote: »

99% of the time when I say f@ggot it's not ment to be a derogatory way of calling someone homosexual.

Sh*thead : Im not saying your head is disgusting and smelly

C*nt : Im not saying your a giant vagina

Porch monkey : Your lazy, not neccicerily black and lazy.

The gays always seem to be so uptight about this sort of thing. Like getting f@ggot sensered from boards? C,mon.

I'd be offended if you called me a bundle of sticks....

L1011 · 14-01-2008 12:57pm

Varkov wrote: »

But isn't it something undesirable for most people?

Only bigots.

Boston · 14-01-2008 7:58pm

Varkov wrote: »

99% of the time when I say f@ggot it's not ment to be a derogatory way of calling someone homosexual.

Sh*thead : Im not saying your head is disgusting and smelly

C*nt : Im not saying your a giant vagina

Porch monkey : Your lazy, not neccicerily black and lazy.

The gays always seem to be so uptight about this sort of thing. Like getting f@ggot sensered from boards? C,mon.

Muppet : I'm not actually calling you a sock puppet of some kind.

Do you find the term "****" offensive?

Do you find the term "****" offensive? 53 votes

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