Changing down gears

j1979p

Just wondering how each of you guys downshifts when slowing down for say a left turn. Lets say your in 4th gear and you want to be in 2nd. When do u put the clutch in? Before turning? During the turn?

Also, just wondering if any of you rev match when downshifting? Sometimes when you brake to a very slow speed and engage 2nd, rev matching is not necessary but say you were in 4th and a car pulled out in fromt forcing you to slow down. This car is accelerating away and you need to change to 3rd or even 2nd. DO any of you let the gears slow the car down or do you rev match to make it smooth?

Fast_Mover

j1979p wrote: »

Just wondering how each of you guys downshifts when slowing down for say a left turn. Lets say your in 4th gear and you want to be in 2nd. When do u put the clutch in? Before turning? During the turn?

Are you looking for the 'proper' driving test answer? or are you a qualified/competent driver and this is a genuine question?
If it's the latter, it depends.

Wishbone Ash

j1979p wrote: »

When do u put the clutch in? Before turning? During the turn?

Never press the clutch during a turn. Select the appropriate gear prior to making the turn.

j1979p

Fast_Mover wrote: »

Are you looking for the 'proper' driving test answer? or are you a qualified/competent driver and this is a genuine question?
If it's the latter, it depends.

Just as it says on the tin. I'm simply looking for what real people do out there. I am a learner and I see these cars around me every day when i'm driving but I'd like to know am I doing the same things as them? Unfortunately I dont recall my instructor ever telling me what to do regarding this and even if he did, I would lke to know what you do.

j1979p

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Never press the clutch during a turn. Select the appropriate gear prior to making the turn.

So if never during a turn, would/could you change gears after the turn? Is that common? Really, I am looking for some genuine honest answers here.

Also can you answer the second part about rev matching?

Thanks!!!!!!

Fast_Mover

What you should do is before coming to the turn slow down gradually, change down to 3rd gear and then in turn, down to 2nd gear. Then you may take your take. Otherwise it is known as 'coasting' and warrents a penalty or whatever you call it during your test.

Wishbone Ash

j1979p wrote: »

Also can you answer the second part about rev matching?

Forget about all that rev matching stuff. It's a car you are driving - not a truck with an Eaton twin splitter gearbox.

I have a full licence in all categories and I have never felt the need to 'rev match' in a vehicle with normal transmission yet!

Stark

j1979p wrote: »

I am a learner and I see these cars around me every day when i'm driving but I'd like to know am I doing the same things as them?

You're doing well when you don't do the same things as them

You always engage the lower gear before the turn as you'll want to be able to accelerate out of the turn. Going into corners in high gear is how people lose control.

Fast Mover wrote:

What you should do is before coming to the turn slow down gradually, change down to 3rd gear and then in turn, down to 2nd gear.

Since he's driving a car, he can block change from 4th to 2nd.

Fast_Mover

Stark wrote: »

Since he's driving a car, he can block change from 4th to 2nd.

I stand corrected on this but I don't think this is allowed in the driving test?

Alanstrainor

Block changing from 4th to 2nd is not recommended for test purposes, i got into the habit of doing that before my test and my instructor had to drill it out of me. I would say to just move from 4th to 3rd to 2nd, as was said above. It's difficult to get used to but it is the best way of doing it. Good luck with your driving!

Alan

Wishbone Ash

I wouldn't be a fan of this block changing either - it just doesn't come naturally to me in normal driving circumstances.

j1979p

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Forget about all that rev matching stuff. It's a car you are driving - not a truck with an Eaton twin splitter gearbox.

I have a full licence in all categories and I have never felt the need to 'rev match' in a vehicle with normal transmission yet!

Fair enough but are you sure you are not doing something else? I don't like the feeling of the engine slowing the car when I lift the clutch in a lower gear. Does this happen to evrybody or have you learned something by experience or feel'to counter this (e.g. blipping the throttle slightly before releasing the clutch)?

S.I.R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Never press the clutch during a turn. Select the appropriate gear prior to making the turn.

if only all drivers drove you ash... most people i know half clutch when turning and complain that there cars clutch " is a piece of poop ". shouldn't be on the the road imo

paulksnn

j1979p wrote: »

Fair enough but are you sure you are not doing something else? I don't like the feeling of the engine slowing the car when I lift the clutch in a lower gear. Does this happen to evrybody or have you learned something by experience or feel'to counter this (e.g. blipping the throttle slightly before releasing the clutch)?

The feeling of the gear slowing down the car means that you are driving too fast.
You need to slow down sufficiently that when you move to 3rd gear, there is no lurch.
When in 3rd gear, you need to slow down again, so that moving into second doesn't cause a lurch either.
Feeling the engine slow down the car like that means you are travelling way too fast into the corner.
Also, you should be down into 2nd gear before you get to the corner.
In reality, some people will go from 4th to 2nd, but only after slowing down sufficiently so that they are doing the correct speed for 2nd.
The correct speed will of course depend on your car.
I remember when I was learning to drive, that my Dad used to keep telling me that I was in the wrong gear. This is because he had a big diesel estate, while my 1L polo was a completely different kettle of fish.

BlackWizard

Thats a good post paulksnn, Id agree with all of it.

Especially around winter when the roads are starting to loose their traction due to bad weather, you really don't want to be engaging a clutch or going too fast around a corner. Not just because you will loose grip instantly on an ice covered turn if you change gear, but because you need to concentrate more on what others are doing around you. They might not be as good a driver as yourself in bad conditions.

I thought block changing was perfectly find now days? I could of sworn I was told that they used to penalize you for doing it years ago but it's considered alright now.

aniascor

I've had two different driving instructors, and both told me that block changing was okay, even preferable in some circumstances.
But what I'm really learning recently is that for every strong opinion about how something should be done when driving, there is almost always an equally strong opposing opinion!

cc

.....or another way of explaining it, if your cycling a 10 speed bike and your crusing along at speed and suddenly change down to 1st your legs will start moving a million miles an hour! best to be in the appropriate gear for the appropriate speed

j1979p

paulksnn wrote: »

The feeling of the gear slowing down the car means that you are driving too fast.
You need to slow down sufficiently that when you move to 3rd gear, there is no lurch.
When in 3rd gear, you need to slow down again, so that moving into second doesn't cause a lurch either.
Feeling the engine slow down the car like that means you are travelling way too fast into the corner.
Also, you should be down into 2nd gear before you get to the corner.
In reality, some people will go from 4th to 2nd, but only after slowing down sufficiently so that they are doing the correct speed for 2nd.
The correct speed will of course depend on your car.
I remember when I was learning to drive, that my Dad used to keep telling me that I was in the wrong gear. This is because he had a big diesel estate, while my 1L polo was a completely different kettle of fish.

I agree that when you slow down sufficiently, you can move to most gears (except perhaps 1st) without any lurching. However, wouldn't you have to go fairly slow for there to be no noticable lurch? As in too slow to be approaching without holding everybody up?

Lets say you want to take a tightish bend (not corner) at 15 mph. You are in 4th gear going 35 mph. Even if you slow in 4th to 15mph, when you select 2nd and release the clutch the car will jolt to a slower speed. I dont know about you but it nearly ALWAYS happens to me!

But I know why. When you slow to 15 in 4th, your engine speed (RPM) in this gear will be very very slow because a higher gear is engaged. Therefore when you change to a lower gear and try to bring the plates together, you will have this same RPM but it will be for a different gear. This results in a sudden slowing down.

To smoothen things out, some people recommend touching your throttle to bring up the RPM while your releasing the clutch.

Comments anybody?

paulksnn

You wouldn't have to go too slow to avoid the lurch.
When learning to drive, you have to concentrate on individual tasks. So changing gears, checking mirrors, shoulder, indicating normally get done sequentially.
As you become more experienced, these thing will all happen at the same time, i.e. you will be checking mirrors for bikes and changing gears at the same time.

As for changing gears, up or down, I could be wrong , but I think it's normal to apply the accelerator as you let out the clutch.
Otherwise, when you let in the clutch, the engine rpm's drop(slow down significantly), because there is no drive from a gear. When you let out the clutch without any accelerator, the gear tries to drive the car at the speed it can with the rpms available.
(I know I'm not doing a good job of explaining this).

Suffice to say, generally you do need to add a touch of accelerator when engaging any gear, either going up or down.

LuckyStar

My instructos says I can go from say 4th to 2nd but I think he feels it's better to go down in order. He says definitely to go up the gears in order.

My father goes from 1st to 5th, apart from starting off he goes EVERYWHERE in 5th gear...

When I am coming up to a turn I slow down, bring down the gear if needed and let the car roll into the turn, I usually brake down a little bit coming into the turn if needed.

m83

LuckyStar wrote: »

My instructos says I can go from say 4th to 2nd but I think he feels it's better to go down in order. He says definitely to go up the gears in order.

My father goes from 1st to 5th, apart from starting off he goes EVERYWHERE in 5th gear...

When I am coming up to a turn I slow down, bring down the gear if needed and let the car roll into the turn, I usually brake down a little bit coming into the turn if needed.

lol! legend

Alkers

Block changing in the test is fine, went from 4th to 2md several times and I only got 3 green marks overall.
If you find the car lurching when changing from 4th to second, slow the car down more and also release the clutch more slowly, like you are taking off (hold at the bite point) etc and it will be much smoother.

DRice

So should you down shift gears before or after indicating?

Webmonkey

Block changing is infact okay according to a very well respected instructor i know. But obviously within reason, you don't want to be going from 5th to 2nd!.

As for shifting down gears before indicating - well that can vary i guess but make sure you give the people behind you plenty notice. Most of the time i would imagine you would indicate before dropping the down.

LuckyStar wrote:

My father goes from 1st to 5th, apart from starting off he goes EVERYWHERE in 5th gear...

This is not healthy for the engine at all. More than likely when he reaches 5th, the revs will be only at 1.5-2k. It isn't good for an engine to be down this far while trying to move a 1+tonne car. If he is going to use the full rev band in 1st gear to have an appropriate amount of speed to rev match for 5th why not just go up in gears normally since you enter these bands anyways?

Placebo

slow down at turn ? no acceleration needed ! then after the turn cluth, straight to 2nd THEN accelerate?

OR as car approaches turn, change to desired gear [car is gliding at this moment in time] then slow accordingly and accelerate off turn.

Webmonkey

Placebo wrote: »

slow down at turn ? no acceleration needed ! then after the turn cluth, straight to 2nd THEN accelerate?

OR as car approaches turn, change to desired gear [car is gliding at this moment in time] then slow accordingly and accelerate off turn.

No, don't coast around a turn and half ways put it into gear and accelerate.
You better off having slowed down prior to the turn by down shifting (even if revs are little high) and then tap on the accelerator once past that half way point and once turn gone you will be at a high enough rev point to up shift.

bonkey

Before reading the following, please bear in mind that I was taught under a different system to that in Ireland, and that the following advice may or may not be suitable for test-purposes.

***

Block-changing, particularly in a modern car, is perfectly fine. It is often, but not always the preferable option.

To block-change down safely, you brake, then while still braking declutch, shift, wait about half a second, then slowly and smoothly declutch. If the car lurches from this, then you were at too high a speed for the gear you chose. Depending on your car (i.e. whether or not you could safely go slower before declutching and downshifting) you should either brake more before beginning the operation or go through an intermediate gear.

Regarding indicating for a corner, you should not begin to alter your speed in any way before indicating. No braking, no downshifting, nothing. Indicate first to give any following traffic adequate warning, then begin your speed-alteration.

In terms of the "revving the engine to match", the sequence I was taught for gear-shifting was to *always* to the following in sequence, without overlap.

1) release accelerator
2) engage clutch
3) shift
4) disengage clutch at least to the point where it begins to re-engage
5) re-engage accelerator

In practice, with an 18-year old Peugeot 205, this didn't always work so smoothly, and I got into the habit of blending steps 1 and 2, and steps 4 and 5 together. Once I moved to a more modern car (a 5-year-old Ford Mondeo), I found I had to get out of my bad habits, or I'd end up 'racing' the engine after declutching or before re-engaging.

As for the whole corner question....one of the mandatory post-qualification courses we have to do here involves taking your car on a 'skid corner' (wet, polished concrete). You learn very quickly that the only right thing is to have everything in place before you enter the corner. Braking, gear-shifting, clutching, declutching....they're all just different recipes to help you lose traction.

j1979p

I read a book in Easons yesterday (can't remember the name of it) which said you should:

1. When moving up gears, always get the biting point of the newer gear before pressing on the accelerator
   
2. When moving down gears, always start pressing the accelerator just before getting the biting point.

This makes sense to me as you need to lower your revs when moving up (and the car does this naturally if you stay off the accelerator for a while) and you need to speed up the revs a bit when engaging a lower gear (which you can do by following (2) ABOVE)