What channel is TNA Shown on in IRE?(Now The All-Purpose TNA Rant and Defence Thread)

swx22000

What channel is TNA shown on? I have chorus/NTL.

Fozzy

It's on Bravo 2, which isn't available on NTL. Count yourself lucky

Otis Driftwood

Thats a bit harsh Fozzy!


I rarely watch WWE anymore but would tune in pretty regularly to TNA.
IMO its a hell of alot more entertaining than WWE is at the moment.

MikeHoncho

nedtheshed wrote: »

Thats a bit harsh Fozzy!


I rarely watch WWE anymore but would tune in pretty regularly to TNA.
IMO its a hell of alot more entertaining than WWE is at the moment.

If you like seeing washed up ex wwe guys in non sensical storylines and some of the stupidest gimmick matches imaginable then yep it is a hell of a show.

EdK

Atleast they put on some decent wrestling matches once and a while

orestes

I caught some of it on Eurosport UK a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't a full show, just about a half an hour with a match between Christian and Angle. Not sure if it's a regular thing or if it was just a promo but I haven't been able to find it on there again since

Gerard.C

EdK wrote: »

Atleast they put on some decent wrestling matches once and a while

Have you not been watching WWE lately then, no?

Jesus Christ, TNA is absolutely dire. I haven't sat down and watched an episode of TNA in months. Why? Because it insults my intelligence.

Otis Driftwood

MikeHoncho wrote: »

If you like seeing washed up ex wwe guys in non sensical storylines and some of the stupidest gimmick matches imaginable then yep it is a hell of a show.

Yes there are some ex WWE stars in it but so what?
How many ex WCW stars were in WWE down the years?
-taker,big show,nash,hall,vader,Eddie guererro,benoit,mysterio and many more-its the nature of the business.

WWE/WWF never had nonsensicle story lines and stupid gimmick matches????

Punjabi prison matches,dumpster matches,boiler room matches,paddle on a pole matches,Mae Young giving birth to a hand,Vince dying,hornswoggle??

TNA has some of the best techincal and high flying matches in pro wrestling.
Have you ever seen any of the samoa joe v aj styles v christopher daniels matches?
These were some of the greatest matches Ive ever seen and Ive been watching wrestling for over 20 years.

TNA is still a fledgling company that has only been going around 5 years so I think its pretty damn awesome what they have acheived in that short period of time.

EdK

Gerard.C wrote: »

Have you not been watching WWE lately then, no?

Jesus Christ, TNA is absolutely dire. I haven't sat down and watched an episode of TNA in months. Why? Because it insults my intelligence.

And WWE doesnt Vince has a midget son, came back from the dead, has had a breakdown has had sex with Howard Finkel and so on and so on

They are as bad as each other, but TNA'S in ring stuff is good, they do a few bad finishes but WWE do numerous dq's, countouts and other dodgy finishes.

Take CM Punk vs MVP champion v champion, going to finish? I think not!

MikeHoncho

nedtheshed wrote: »

Yes there are some ex WWE stars in it but so what?
How many ex WCW stars were in WWE down the years?
-taker,big show,nash,hall,vader,Eddie guererro,benoit,mysterio and many more-its the nature of the business.

None of those wrestlers were big stars untill they went to WWE and they were in WWE at the prime of their careers. WWE made them the big names they are. The ex WWE guys TNA have are either not good enough to be on WWE television or well past it. The exception's to this would be Christian Cage and maybe Rhino.

nedtheshed wrote: »

WWE/WWF never had nonsensicle story lines and stupid gimmick matches????

At least WWE gimmick matches even if a little stupid at times arent completly over complicated to the point of not being able to understand what is going on. That feast or fired thing was just way too complicated. Reverse Battle Royal my arse.

nedtheshed wrote: »

TNA has some of the best techincal and high flying matches in pro wrestling.
Have you ever seen any of the samoa joe v aj styles v christopher daniels matches?
These were some of the greatest matches Ive ever seen and Ive been watching wrestling for over 20 years.

Those guys are fantastic. They are the future of TNA but they are being booked terribly at the moment. Joe is stuck in a programme with Nash who should be out picking up his pension not wrestling. AJ Styles has been reduced to a lacky role and Christopher Daniels is doing an angle where he has been fired (you cant have great matches when your not wrestling).

The X divsion is what got people into TNA and was responsible for those high flying and great matches your talking about but they have really dropped the ball on this one in the last year or so. First they involved Nash in the division and now Team 3D. X Division should just be about great matches it doesnt need these guys involved at all.

Ned is you are looking for great high flying wrestling TNA is currently not the place to be and no amount of blind faith (something which TNA fans have in spades) will change that. Pick up an ROH DVD or watch some of their stuff online.

The Great One

at this moment despite the Hornwaggle angle which wasnt planned (and is aimed at kids) and the fallout from Benoit and Injuries WWE is actually at a much higher standard IMO than for quite a while. Meanwhile TNA is probably producing some of its worst work in a Long Long time despite having argueably the best Roster its ever had.

Otis Driftwood

Vader,Nash and Hall were all bigger in WCW than they ever were in WWE.

How many years did it take for Benoit,Eddie and Rey to get any sort of push and even at that they dropped the belt before too long.

Angle not good enough for WWE??
Are you having a laugh-youd rather have a Finlay,Cena(dont get me started on this douche)a Khali or some such guy ahead of him.

All in all,for the amount of wrestlers on the WWE roster and the amount of them that can actually pull off a decent match its laughable.

The way WWE is now is exactly the way it was in the early to mid 90s - stale.

TNA is trying something different rather than ripping off matches from other feds.
EG - The king of the mountain,super x cup,the ultimate X match as well as the Lockdown PPV.

I see where you are coming from re some of the match rules being a bit convaluted but as Ive said,they are trying to give the fans something fresh that hasnt been seen before and for that I salute them.

The reason 3d are involved in the X division at the moment is to push it onwards.
The Dudleys have always been great when it comes to putting guys over so thats what they are doing at the moment.

Its nothing to do with blind faith,I just feel that TNA have the right blend at the moment - technical wrestling,high flying and the more hardcore things.

Ive also been a fan of ROH for quite a while and agree,it is pretty damn good.

However,If I want to be entertained for nearly the full 2 hours I watch TNA.
If I want to see endless crappy promos and the same wrestlers doing the same thing week in week out I will watch WWE.

Gerard.C

I was actually going to respond to you, but then I saw you compare Finlay to Khali and Cena (who was one of the best wrestlers of 2007). So you can just go ****.

MikeHoncho

nedtheshed wrote: »

Nash and Hall were all bigger in WCW than they ever were in WWE.

Angle not good enough for WWE??
Are you having a laugh-youd rather have a Finlay,Cena(dont get me started on this douche)a Khali or some such guy ahead of him.

All in all,for the amount of wrestlers on the WWE roster and the amount of them that can actually pull off a decent match its laughable

Nash and Hall became stars in WWE as Diesel and Razor Ramone. WWE made them who they were.

Angle is one of my favourite wrestlers of all time but the fact is WWE let him go because they thought he was gonna end up another Eddie. If he could come back in full health then I would welcome it.

When the match of the year candidates are announced I will gaurantee there is more WWE matches than TNA ones.

Im not saying WWE is perfect. Far from it. All that Hornswaggle stuff is stupid and ECW is dying on its ass but at the moment the majority of their feuds are based on simple wrestling storylines and its working well IMO.

KrazeeEyezKilla

WWE make $400 million profits, I expect them to be a bit lazy with storylines. And anyway Hornswaggle is a childrens character. TNA is supposed to be the alternative to this yet is much worse. Samoa Joe should have had the same run with the belt as Cena had in WWE and the likes of Styles & Daniels should be major contenders. There is use for Angle and others but they should not dominate everything.

Otis Driftwood

Gerard.C wrote: »

I was actually going to respond to you, but then I saw you compare Finlay to Khali and Cena (who was one of the best wrestlers of 2007). So you can just go ****.

No need to be rude Gerard.
Im giving my opinion same as everyone else here is.
Its a debate,lets keep it that way.
My reasoning for mentioning those 3 wrestlers in particular is because they do the same thing week in week out.
Mike work,move set and general ring work is pretty much a carbon copy every single match.
I dont care what anyone says,Cena has NO charisma and is limited at best in his in ring work.
The only reason he held the belt for so long is because when he got it first he was booed out of every arena and Vince being Vince didnt want to end up eating $hit so he rammed him down the throats of the fans.
Who likes him?
He sells t shirts and action figures to kids so thats why hes currently in the top tier.
When WWE was at its height he wouldnt have got past mid card status,simple as that.
As for Finlay and Khali,see above.

KrazeeEyezKilla

I dont care what anyone says,Cena has NO charisma and is limited at best in his in ring work.
The only reason he held the belt for so long is because when he got it first he was booed out of every arena and Vince being Vince didnt want to end up eating $hit so he rammed him down the throats of the fans.
Who likes him?
He sells t shirts and action figures to kids so thats why hes currently in the top tier.
When WWE was at its height he wouldnt have got past mid card status,simple as that.

Kids are the WWE's main audience these days so thats why he is the top man. He's not as good as The Rock but he's not bad. TNA should be appealing to the older fans but I dont think they are doing a good enough job.

rizzla

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote: »

Kids are the WWE's main audience these days so thats why he is the top man. He's not as good as The Rock but he's not bad. TNA should be appealing to the older fans but I dont think they are doing a good job.

TNA try and cover the whole demogrpahic I feel. They've got an excellent womens WRESTLING division, some fun comedy characters for the kids (Shark Boy, Eric Young) then they've got some great technical wrestling, high-flyin and hardcore bouts to cater for the rest.

Double C

Your Finlay hate amazes me.

As for Cena, you say the reason he was champ is because he was booed and Vince wanted to spite the fans? Interesting theory. Ridiculous, but interesting. Cena was champion for two years for the exact reason that kids buy his merchandise, hes a money making machine the very same as Austin and the Rock years ago. He has oodles of charisma and if given decent material he would be one of the top promo guys in the business.

The match of the year candidates should be dominated by WWE and ROH. ROH is a shoe in to get more nominations than TNA. They had two of the top 3 last year in the Wrestling Observer (I assume thats the awards we'll be going by) tbh I cant think of of a single TNA match I'd have in the top 10

Shaneomac

Tna matches arnt that hard to understand, no harder than the punjabi prison anyway. Wonder how their matches will work in their videogame though...

Fozzy

Shaneomac wrote: »

Tna matches arnt that hard to understand, no harder than the punjabi prison anyway.

The difference is that WWE explains the matches! TNA usually attempt to at some stage, but it ends up so convoluted. There's always unanswered questions about their matches too. If TNA don't care enough to explain it, why should any fan care about it?

nedtheshed wrote:

If I want to see endless crappy promos and the same wrestlers doing the same thing week in week out I will watch WWE.

Endless crappy promos? Take a look at the Impact Script thread. I counted all the talking segments on the show and there's 15 or 16 of them. It's the same every week too. And all these segments are just talking about how someone is angry with someone or they're not getting on with their tag team partner, but they don't seem to be building to anything. If you want to bring WWE into it, every talking segment that they do is designed to do something. Whether it be to set up a match or create some hype for a match, almost all of the time they achieve it. And even if they don't, at least they were aiming to. And here's TNA with five segments at AJ's house to achieve what could have been done in one

Machismo Fan

Regarding ROH and match of the years, lets wait until they get a national TV deal, lets wait until they are known and successful worldwide, lets wait until they are no longer a company with no more than a cult following. See TNA and ROH are roughly the same age, ROH is slighty older.

Look what im getting at is youre all saying ROH is great and TNA is dreadful but the companies are worlds apart. TNA is much, much, much further ahead of ROH and despite ROH's brilliance they are not catching up very fast.

Fozzy

ROH's first two PPVs have outsold any TNA PPV this year

Double C

Shot down!!

TNA just pisses me off because it has so much potential and refuses to use it. ROH is just more entertaining. Great story lines that actually make sense :eek: and mostly good matches. Financially, ROH are turning over a profit which is alot more than can be said for TNA.

The main event level in ROH has been incredible this year, but the rest of the card has slipped bigstyle. The Resilience are case in point in the big spots with zero psychology. The Briscoe's are slipping into that category too I'm sad to say, but their feud with Steen and Generico this year was amazing.

Anyways, I was all for TNA to succeed, but at this stage I've given up on them. ROH is just the old reliable for me.

Fozzy

Whatever you think about the wrestling in ROH, you can't fault the booking on their PPVs. The feuds make sense, matches are set up and built up, they get you interested in seeing what happens next. It's been done pretty simply on the PPVs actually, but simple is what's sold in 2007

Gerard.C

I actually cannot stress anymore how much I despise TNA right now. Like Double C said, they have incredible potential, but are obviously too stupid to figure out what to do with it. "The Alternative" my ****ing hole. I'd much much prefer to watch ROH, but it's a bit of a pain to get my hands on.

joe123

Gerard.C wrote: »

I was actually going to respond to you, but then I saw you compare Finlay to Khali and Cena (who was one of the best wrestlers of 2007). So you can just go ****.

You have to be kidding right? Im no expert but my god do I hate John Cena.

EVERY one of his matches have the same three moves. He has no charisma, hes just the cheesy "good guy" who the kids cheer.

Comparing him to the likes of austin and the rock is laughable.

Fozzy

Saying Cena has no charisma is laughable. That's his best quality. It's why the kids love him. I don't always like the stuff he says, but he's got buckets of charisma. Usually it's guys like Lance Storm or Bret Hart who are criticised for not having charisma, and there's a big difference between them and Cena

Have you seen any of Cena's matches this year? I'd have agreed with you last year about the formulaic matches with few moves (although moves do not make a match), he helped turn me off WWE for a good while. But this year he's had some really good matches

EdK

ROH shows are few and far between its easy to stay fresh when you only have a few shows, staying fresh and remaining consistant is hard to do wnhen you have to book tv every week/couple of weeks, if the lads in ROH were pulling out matches like that week after week they wouldnt last long injury wise etc

Just a point i'm not starting an argument as I like all brands of wrestling they all bring something to the table

Fozzy

EdK wrote: »

ROH shows are few and far between its easy to stay fresh when you only have a few shows, staying fresh and remaining consistant is hard to do wnhen you have to book tv every week/couple of weeks, if the lads in ROH were pulling out matches like that week after week they wouldnt last long injury wise etc

Just a point i'm not starting an argument as I like all brands of wrestling they all bring something to the table

There's been 38 ROH shows this year by my count. All of the guys work for other promotions too, so they pretty much are going like that week after week

EdK

We are not talking house shows here did you read what I said?

The oneupsmanship on this board kills it, everybody has to be right

Fozzy

From what I've seen the guys in ROH do pull off similar matches in other promotions though. I'm not saying "you're wrong!", I'm just saying what I believe to be fact. ROH shows are not few and far between and the wrestlers might not have matches like that every week, but close to it

If you're asking if I read the bit about the booking remaining fresh, then I don't think it's that hard if you've got a mind for it and you know what the fans want. I think ROH's booker has that, and he books another promotion too which hasn't been repeating stuff from ROH. Overall he's booked on average over a show every week this year, it can be done

EDIT: I don't know what you mean by house shows, the shows that ROH doesn't put on PPV are pretty much the same as their PPV shows, they're not like WWE house shows where no angles are advanced

Gerard.C

joe123 wrote: »

You have to be kidding right? Im no expert but my god do I hate John Cena.

EVERY one of his matches have the same three moves. He has no charisma, hes just the cheesy "good guy" who the kids cheer.

Comparing him to the likes of austin and the rock is laughable.

It actually is laughable............that's why I didn't do it.

His main quality is his charisma. Granted, he gets awful stuff to work with, but he does what he can with his little gay jokes and what-not.

And, everyone of Shawn Michaels matchs will have that body-slam, atomic drop combo, with his nip up and the SCM. Most wrestlers do have trademark moves that they do in every match. That's hardly a bad thing....




God, never thought I'D be defending Cena! Guess all my hate is directed towards TNA and HHH these days

Mr.Nice Guy

joe123 wrote: »

You have to be kidding right? Im no expert but my god do I hate John Cena.

EVERY one of his matches have the same three moves. He has no charisma, hes just the cheesy "good guy" who the kids cheer.

All wrestlers have signature moves. To say he doesn't have charisma is ludicrously stupid. He probably gets the biggest reaction out of all the wrestlers on the roster.

nedtheshed wrote:

I dont care what anyone says,Cena has NO charisma and is limited at best in his in ring work.

nedtheshed wrote:

Who likes him?
He sells t shirts and action figures to kids so thats why hes currently in the top tier.

Oh dear, you're all over the place. Funny how a guy with supposedly no charisma can sell more t-shirts and action figures than anybody else! Who likes him you ask? Maybe those people buying his t-shirts and action figures?

Defeated by your own logic (or lack thereof). Typical TNA fan.

To those defending TNA, please wake up. They have great wrestlers no doubt but the booking of the show is retarded beyond belief.

Why do you think wrestlers like Senshi and Killings are desperate to leave there?

Get a clue.

Fozzy

How about some TNA fans try answer the questions at the end of this column that Bryan Alvarez of Figure Four wrote a few months ago: http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=4909

I've seen TNA fans here say that it's just nitpicking when people who don't like TNA are so concerned with the logic like in that column. But if something doesn't make sense then how can you care about it? Would anyone watch and enjoy a film that had numerous plot holes?

I used to think that the people defending TNA are just loyal to the company and were brushing aside any complaints that they had. I was like that myself at the start of the year. But with every passing week and every new reason that TNA gives you to not care about their wrestlers, feuds and matches, I get more confused as to why people keep defending the show. Are they all just oblivious to the nonsense?

rizzla

TNA entertains me. The ridiculous plot holes, ludicrously named gimmick matches and pointless promos can all be overlooked to what really matters to me. The talent and the matches they put on in the ring. Their also building future stars too.

90% of what TNA do outside the ring fails.

70% of what they do in the ring works for me.

WWE has lost me as a viewer long ago so I don't criticize what they do, because I don't watch it. I'll check out the big PPV's but nothing else. I don't like taking other peoples reviews of shows as gospel and I don't base my opinion on them.

I don't get why somone who has "Nobody watch TNA" is so vocally against TNA, either he's a hypocrite and watches TNA but doesn't like it or reads reviews and bases his opinion on them?

Fozzy

rizzla wrote: »

TNA entertains me. The ridiculous plot holes, ludicrously named gimmick matches and pointless promos can all be overlooked to what really matters to me. The talent and the matches they put on in the ring. Their also building future stars too.

I get where you're coming from, I felt similar at the start of the year. I watched because there was still the potential for good matches. I just thought that if I kept watching then the nonsense would stop. But then I found myself not caring about the guys in the matches, and the matches themselves because of that

I've found a few quotes from posts that I made around the start of this year, it might tell the story of TNA's fall from a fan's perspective. Kinda long, but I found it interesting

Me, middle of December 06, talking about the most improved wrestler of the year wrote:

My pick has to be Rhino though. Like Mr.Nice Guy said, he's really stepped it up a notch. I've been a fan of his for years, but he really has hit a spot at the moment where he can do no wrong. He's the guy I look forward to seeing the most each week now, and I haven't really felt like that about any wrestler for a while. Can't wait to see his next match with AJ

Me, end of December, on the Ones to watch in 2007 wrote:

1. Alex Shelley (the next Chris Jericho)
2. Rhino
3. Homicide

Me, on TNA's December 06 PPV wrote:

Easily one of the better ppvs of the year, I really enjoyed this

Me, before TNA's January PPV wrote:

Looks like a very decent card as usual from TNA

Me, after TNA's January PPV wrote:

I have to agree with most of what's been said already

And what was said was this:

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

This show was a big time disappointment in my opinion.

Joe's character looks very damaged now.

This was a shambles and TNA f*cked up big time.

Overall I feel this PPV has hurt TNA a lot. Russo's booking is a pile of crap even still.

Note to Dixie Carter - snap up Paul Heyman if you have the chance. He'll give us a PPV with more than just two clean finishes.

Double C wrote:

The ending to the AJ Rhyno match was just embarrasing

Russo has got alot to answer for after this debacle.

Despite this, I was nearly crying with laughter during the VKM 12 minute sketch. They point out what WWE are doing wrong by doing the exact same thing.

rizzla wrote:

Too many ridiculous finishes, people by PPV for closure to matches. It seem's like the booking was done in such a way to drag everything out as much as possible.

If this is what it's like with Russo in total booking control (The past few months he was just going with established storylines) then get rid of him now.

Vince135792003 also wins the "Most Wrong of 2007" award for this!:

Vince135792003 wrote:

From reading the spoilers (and boy do they like giving things away free on tv by the way) they seem to be going somewhere with Angle that could do good business. Its only a hunch of mine though.

Now, on a month's time:

Me in mid-February wrote:

I was going to do a prediction thread for Against All Odds, but I couldn't be arsed, what's the point in predicting Russo's booking. I just hope there's some good wrestling on the ppv

Me after watching Against All Odds wrote:

I watched the show last night, it got me so pissed off

I didn't understand the reasoning

I didn't care for it much at all. 2 or 3 months ago, I felt completely different. Rhino was the hottest wrestler in TNA back then, now he just looks stuck in a rut. I'll be giving Impact a miss this week anyway

And that is where I believe I lost all faith in TNA. They took a guy who I loved and they made me not care about him in the space of two months. It actually makes me sad looking back on it. I named Alex Shelley, Rhino and Homicide as my ones to watch in 2007! I was enjoying watching those guys so much. But this year TNA have given me no reason to care about those guys and I'm just apathetic towards them. This is reflected in me not caring about their matches

The screwy finishes that started me on my way to disliking TNA are still there. Most of the shows are talking segments that achieve very little. Both of these things make it hard for me to care about the matches. When a wrestler is challenging for a title I find it hard to get behind them and will them on to win because from watching the shows it seems to very often be not who's the best who wins the matches, but who has the best interference

MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho wrote: »

If you like seeing washed up ex wwe guys in non sensical storylines and some of the stupidest gimmick matches imaginable then yep it is a hell of a show.

Other then WWE who is washing guys up , using them in other stupid gimmicks and stupid story lines aimed at kids .

TNA although is bad at the moment is still alot more entertaining to a true wrestling fan . As it achtually shows real wrestling matches.

EdK

This is when debates/discussions turn ugly

"Typical TNA fan" and stuff like its crap dont watch it

When people try to enforce their opinion on others it never works, some things people just dont agree on, you can argue all you want and take as many cheap shots as you want you are not going to change each others minds.

I'll admit I havent seen a full TNA show in a while and some of the things i've seen lately I have questioned, i only watch some WWE and cant say i'm liking all of that either.

At the moment I'm sick of wrestling i just can't get interested in the matches or feuds, it's just the same stuff and even the wrestlers I liked such as shawn Michaels and AJ Styles cant really hold my interest not that its their fault or anything i dont know what it is, (no you should watch ROH comments please,

So far this year i've spent €2000+ on a trip to Wrestlemania and each week i'm slowly losing interest in wrestling

So in closing ladies and gentlemen ithink I may be growing up :eek:

gimmick

Fozzy wrote: »

ROH's first two PPVs have outsold any TNA PPV this year

While that is a fact, I think it might be a slightly misleading stat, in so far as the few ROH PPVs so far have cherry picked their matches, to leave out the less than great ones, and even used one match - Nigel Vs Danielson, from an altogether show for the Driven PPV.

TNAs biggest problem for me is that it tries to push itself as an alternative to WWE, but is in actual fact, a very poor sad duplicate of its rival. It has fantastic talent at its disposal, yet has Kevin Nash, and "Black Reign" taking up decent roster and TV spots. The fact that an amazing wrestler like Low Ki asked for his release due to mis use speaks volumes.

Edk wrote:

ROH shows are few and far between its easy to stay fresh when you only have a few shows, staying fresh and remaining consistent is hard to do wnhen you have to book tv every week/couple of weeks, if the lads in ROH were pulling out matches like that week after week they wouldn't last long injury wise etc

Without wanting to be labeled a smark because I am an ROH fan, but WWE/TNA shoot themselves in the foot to some degree in that there is the danger of overkill in having 12+ PPVs a year and 5 hours of TV every week. Of course it will be hard to keep things fresh, so why not scale things back somewhat? Its not like ratings are doing that well for any of the 3 brands is it?

As for the ROH shows being few and far between, as Fozzy pointed out, that isnt quite the case. However, the ROH ethos is put more on in ring action (love or loathe it, thats a fact), than what it is put on storylines. In any ROH show, the wrestling/mic ratio is 85/15%.

EdK

gimmick wrote: »

While that is a fact, I think it might be a slightly misleading stat, in so far as the few ROH PPVs so far have cherry picked their matches, to leave out the less than great ones, and even used one match - Nigel Vs Danielson, from an altogether show for the Driven PPV.

TNAs biggest problem for me is that it tries to push itself as an alternative to WWE, but is in actual fact, a very poor sad duplicate of its rival. It has fantastic talent at its disposal, yet has Kevin Nash, and "Black Reign" taking up decent roster and TV spots. The fact that an amazing wrestler like Low Ki asked for his release due to mis use speaks volumes.



Without wanting to be labeled a smark because I am an ROH fan, but WWE/TNA shoot themselves in the foot to some degree in that there is the danger of overkill in having 12+ PPVs a year and 5 hours of TV every week. Of course it will be hard to keep things fresh, so why not scale things back somewhat? Its not like ratings are doing that well for any of the 3 brands is it?

As for the ROH shows being few and far between, as Fozzy pointed out, that isnt quite the case. However, the ROH ethos is put more on in ring action (love or loathe it, thats a fact), than what it is put on storylines. In any ROH show, the wrestling/mic ratio is 85/15%.

I didnt mean the amount of shows they have i meant the amount of televised material they put out, as for the 85% wrestling bit that is a good thing but not everybody likes that but then some do, WWE and especially TNA get caught up in trying to cater to all the markets it cannot be done you only end up with a trainwreck of a show

People want familiarality we give them Nash and Sting and a few WWE guys, people want innovation we give them Styles, Daniels etc, people want hardcore we give them Abyss, Raven etc then its a big mess trying to keep them all happy

It cant be done, they had the right idea in the beginning marketing themselves on the x division, then they saw that wasnt quite enough to hold a national companyso they tried to do too much

That said I still respect thethings they have achieved in their short time and i wouldnt like to see them go

Fozzy

gimmick wrote: »

While that is a fact, I think it might be a slightly misleading stat, in so far as the few ROH PPVs so far have cherry picked their matches, to leave out the less than great ones, and even used one match - Nigel Vs Danielson, from an altogether show for the Driven PPV.

Every match that has been taped for PPV has been picked in advance as far as I know. They have got angles that they're using on the PPVs, so it wouldn't make much sense to pick the matches afterwards I think. If they were to do that then KENTA vs Danielson should have been on the first PPV, that was the best match that night. The crowd at Nigel vs Danielson were told that the match would be on a PPV

The fact does remain though that ROH are much more successful in convincing their fans to pay for their product. TNA only have to do it 12 times a year, ROH do it 40 times. You can say that TNA has a larger audience every week, but they completely fail to get any more than 1% of those people excited enough about a PPV to spend money on it

Why do the TNA fans here think it is that so many other TNA fans just aren't willing to spend any money to find out what happens at the big events?

EdK wrote: »

I didnt mean the amount of shows they have i meant the amount of televised material they put out

Every ROH show is taped for DVD, and the DVDs are pretty much the same format as the PPVs, just longer

I do agree with not wanting TNA to go out of business, but what they're doing now just isn't working. They're not making enough money and they're lucky that they've got a person like Dixie Carter because without her there would be no TNA. Who knows, maybe her father will leave Panda Energy some day and Dixie won't be able to convince Panda to carry on funding TNA. Unfortunately that's all it would take for TNA to go out of business, which is why I'd like to see them making people buy their PPVs

EdK

Because most TNA fans arent just fans of TNA the,American market is over saturated with PPV wrestling hence why UFC does and boxing do so well and WWE has been in the market alot longer, plus fans will wait to watch them through torrents or Dailymotion

Most TNA ppvs are better wrestling wise than WWE but they are not as heavily advertised they dont have as big a market and WWE ppv's are usually a week or two later and people are not gonna buy 2 $40 ppvs in a week. They are overpriced anyway imo.

EdK

I have been offered a cahnce by Dixie to get ringside seats and a chance to meet some wrestlers in March and I really am excited by the prospect, she is really nice and really wants TNA to succeed but she is a business woman and not a wrestling promoter, she leaves the wrestling to Jarrett etc maybe its time she took control away from him and gave somebody else a shot before its too late.

Fozzy

I don't think a significant portion of their Impact audience watches the PPVs through torrents or other sites, from the stats I've seen on those sites. There's still a huge number of them that just aren't willing to watch because they have to pay for it

The UFC don't do well just because they're the UFC, they do an incredible job in hyping up their shows, their fighters and their matches. Boxing did the same twice this year. WWE often gets it right too. But TNA should at least try to get people interested in buying their PPVs, do you not think?

Dixie knew Jeff before he started up TNA, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was an element of friendship there where she just wouldn't be able to get rid of him. I think it's the same thing with Jeff and Russo, Russo is a friend of Jeff's and Jeff is willing to stick with him

Jerry Jarrett released a book a while ago which contains his diary notes during the start of TNA. One review I read of it said that Jerry was very frustrated with Jeff because he kept listening to Russo's ideas when those ideas went against every rule that Jerry had ever learned on what draws in wrestling. So I don't see much changing unless Jeff falls out with Dixie or Russo for whatever reason. They seem to be in for the long haul

EdK

I think I have tried to outline the reasons I think TNA can't sell their ppv's what else would you suggest they do?

While I agree UFC do a great job they are also the alternative to wrestling ppv's for many people and many people would choose to watch a realish sport

Mr.Nice Guy

I'd like to hear Edk's thoughts (and the thoughts of other TNA fans) on these comments from Lance Storm in a recent column he did on his site about TNA...

TNA’s main income stream or at least its biggest potential income stream is PPV revenue. Increased buy rates could generate a huge increase in revenue, for TNA, at no additional cost what so ever to the company. Impact’s primary goal should be to generate interest in TNA PPVs in hopes of driving PPV buys. If Impact fails to do this, Impact is a failure.

So let's look at buy rates. TNA is drawing in the neighborhood of maybe 20,000 buys per PPV. To give this number perspective ECW (WWE’s third brand) at its absolute worst (The December to Dismember PPV) drew approx. 90,000 buys on PPV. This number was considered so bad that Vince McMahon pulled the plug on ECW as a PPV entity, deciding that it wasn’t a strong enough show to carry itself on PPV. TNA is currently doing maybe 25% of that number. Even TNA’s most successful PPV only did approx. 60,000 buys (Angle – Joe 1).

So this brings up the logical question; why is TNA doing such poor numbers on PPV? I would say these numbers are bad for all the reasons I rant about in my TNA commentaries. Confusing nonsensical booking, bait and switch booking, not honouring stipulations and promises, pointless gimmick matches, comedic portrayals of far too many characters, over booking and watering down of everything that could mean anything, etc.

For TNA to draw on PPV they need to start booking some serious angles that consistently make sense that fans can get into. You don’t even have to take my word for it; you can take the word of Jim Cornette. Jim Cornette has far more experience in the wrestling business than I do, and knows more about it than just about anybody. He even works for TNA. The following is what he had to say in a Power Slam magazine interview, several months ago about pro-wrestling and drawing money.

“Every big money gate, every big rating and every bench mark and record in this business is set by something that people can buy into and take seriously and a conflict they want to see resolved. That’s what it’s all about.”

I couldn’t have said it better myself! I can’t buy into “Chris” Abyss going to jail for shooting his father in the back 3 times. I can’t take Kurt Angle in a pilgrim suit seriously, nor do I see what conflict reverse battle royals or brief cases on poles solve. And let’s look at all the conflicts that do exist in TNA: Robert Roode and Tracy Brooks are in conflict, Kurt and Karen Angle are always in conflict, Leticia Cline and the new announce girl were in a conflict that one week, James Storm and Miss Tennessee were in conflict, Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan are in conflict, on the PPV Kevin Nash and Samoa Joe were in conflict.

Are any of these conflicts something we can get behind in hopes of seeing resolved? Of course not! None of the guy - girl conflicts can be resolved in TNA because guys can’t touch the girls so there will never be a match we can pay to see, to resolve these conflicts. Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan certainly aren’t going to work on PPV, and Samoa Joe and Kevin Nash were buddy buddy on Impact last week with no explanation of how their conflict was even resolved. All of this conflict is a waste of time and just a distraction from any conflict that could potentially draw money.

Even look at what has drawn money for TNA. Joe and Angle 1 was the biggest draw in the company's history, drawing nearly triple their usual buy rate. What did they do to draw that number? Kurt Angle showed up on Impact and head butted Joe right in the face and the two guys tried to beat the **** out of each other. It looked very serious; fans bought into it, and wanted to see the conflict resolved. End result: 60,000 buys.

Since then Kurt has sought psychiatric therapy from Kevin Nash in a sun bed, wandered around back stage in his underwear looking for his clothes, argued with his wife and convinced her to try to sleep with Kevin Nash, and held a Thanksgiving dinner in his house (which oddly enough is both in Pittsburgh and only a few short minute commute from the Impact Zone) where he dressed up in a pilgrim suit, and acted like Eric Young’s older brother. The end result of all this great booking: 20,000 PPV buys or less. 2 out of every 3 people who bought Angle – Joe 1, are no longer buying PPV, why do you think that is?

Now is not the time to celebrate killing ECW in the ratings, now is the time to change the creative direction of this show in an attempt to drive buy-rates, and try to make this company money, so it doesn’t become WCW 2. Those who defend this show are part of the problem not the solution. Blind Faith is never a good thing and people need to not only open their eyes but also try to open the eyes of those in charge of TNA. I get mad and rant about TNA because I care about TNA and everyone who works there. I want to see TNA become a viable company financially so it will be around for the long haul. I want TNA to succeed for the good of the fans that watch it, for the good of the boys who work there, and for the good of the industry as a whole. Maybe if we all just scream loud enough someone will eventually hear us. If they don’t, eventually I won’t have TNA to rant about because and the die-hard TNA fans won’t have a show to get behind.

Is he right or wrong do you think?

EdK

I agree with the sentiment that TNA has watered down their product with comedy and angles that they cant make matches but is selling more ppvs as simple as going back to the realistic approach?, joe vs angle 1 was built very well but then they killed it with numerous rematches too close together

Fozzy

EdK wrote: »

I think I have tried to outline the reasons I think TNA can't sell their ppv's what else would you suggest they do?

Have you read the Impact Script thread? I'll just outline what happens on that show if not. Spoilered in case anyone wants to watch the show come January

The script is for an Impact episode before a PPV. The go home show. And they have four battle royals to decide the rankings in each division, so basically four number one contenders matches. This does absolutely nothing in advertising the PPV in three days time. The titles on the line at the PPV already have challengers set

What I would have suggested they do for that show would be to focus on the challengers that are wrestling at the PPV. Tomko and AJ are defending their tag titles against Joe and Nash, but both champions spend the whole show more concerned about whether they're on Christian's side or Angle's side. They should really be concerned about Joe and Nash, who might take their belts. The belts just seem unimportant when they do things like that, thus making the match unimportant and it feels like the two teams are fighting for nothing. Joe and Nash too are more concerned about each other than the titles. They don't seem to care about winning the belts, only that their partner might turn on them. I don't think AJ or Tomko even comment on the Murder City Machine Guns becoming the top ranked contenders, again making the titles seem pointless

I'd also suggest that if they want people to buy into their main event match that they have a clear face and a clear heel. Angle and Christian are both heels, although Christian is obviously on a face turn. But he's still a heel for now. It might work if they build some conflict between the two guys, but instead they're building the conflict between those two and AJ and Tomko. Which would be fine if it were Kurt vs AJ and Tomko or Christian vs AJ and Tomko. But it's not. I don't think there was any build on that show, three days before the PPV, that actually had anything to do with the main event of the PPV. Maybe if they did build it up then more people would want to watch it?

I think that another reason that TNA can't sell their PPVs is that they try to sell too much at once. If you look at the biggest selling PPVs of recent times, they're almost all based on just one match. Floyd Mayweather's two PPV matches this year, nobody bought them for the undercard. The UFC's two biggest PPV buyrates came from Liddell vs Ortiz and Shamrock vs Ortiz, the other matches on the cards didn't play a huge role in making people want to watch. TNA itself did their best buyrate with the first Angle vs Joe match. That match was the sole reason for more people wanting to see the show

But on Impact every month they bombard you with every match on the PPV and it doesn't pay off. There's too much stuff happening on the shows I think. If they concentrated most of their efforts on the main event match and the other title matches to a lesser extent then I think the feuds and the conflicts (assuming there is some conflict...) would stick in their fans' heads more effectively. The main event angles and wrestlers don't seem to be any more important in TNA than the rest of the card. Just to use WWE as a familiar example, WWE do a good job of always making their top guys look more important than the rest of the card. They don't get involved in comedy skits like dressing up in costumes and seeking counselling on a sunbed (ok, DX had their fair share of silly skits but I didn't like it and I won't defend it. Point remains for the other top wrestlers). I think Meltzer said it on Wrestling Observer Live last week, look at ECW and how they've made Shelton look like a top guy on that show. And now look at TNA and how they've made Booker T into just another guy. If they gave people a reason to care about him then people would. But they've pretty much done the same thing with Booker as they did with Rhino at the start of the year. Both guys who I went from loving to just not caring about in the space of two months

Fozzy

EdK wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment that TNA has watered down their product with comedy and angles that they cant make matches but is selling more ppvs as simple as going back to the realistic approach?, joe vs angle 1 was built very well but then they killed it with numerous rematches too close together

I don't think it was just that there were rematches, I think it was also due to the increasing silliness of the feud. Angle, the face, broke Joe's girlfriend's ankle. Who are the fans meant to buy into and care about? Joe's girlfriend probably got the most sympathy from that angle, but what use is that when she's not having a match?

EdK

Especially when Joe's "girlfriend" had never been mentioned upto then if Joe had broken Karens ankle people might have cared alittle more (oh the irony)