Avoiding Cost of GP for repeat prescrip

punchestown

Folks,

Going to my local GP again tonight for a prescrip of sleeping tablets. €55 to ask him to write out prescription but he will only write out a weeks supply. I use them sparingly enough so usually get 3 weeks out of em before I have to go to him again but I resent having to pay him €55 a pop every 3 weeks cos he wont give me a long term prescription. Is there any way round this please?

thanks,

2Scoops

Try a new doctor - but bear in mind that he probably has legitimate reasons for not giving you a longer prescription.

Are there any over-the-counter alternatives?

Tree

aye, many sleeping tablets are addictive and can only be taken for very short times or very rarely. prolly just have to find a safer long term solution to sleeping problems.

finbarrk

I bought some on the net about 2 years ago, they worked alright but in the morning I always found it hard to wake up and sometimes had a headache.
They came from an Australian website.

InFront

Have you tried tackling the underlying reasons for your sleeplessness?

Prescribing sleeping tablets to a patient really isn't intended to be a long-term fix.

cathy01

I totally understand how you feel.
I have insomnia, I went to my Dr and her did test, everything came back clear.
Then nothing.,I still cant sleep.
I went to USA , and got , in walmart NITALL type things.You can get over the counter in UK.But not here.€55 for a GP visit.
My advice, take a trip up north, stock up.
Hth,
Talk with you again tomorrow morning at about 3am.:p or maybe 5, if I can spend the two hours trying to get back to sleep.:(

UrbanFox

"Sleepers" are NOT intended to be dished out on repeat prescriptions ad infinitum. They are only supposed to be used over a short term. In fact, a doctor who doles them out on endles repeats to a particular patient without a really good clinical reason would worry me.

For some repeats you really do not need to see your doctor. My mother gets a diuretic (Frumil LS) and does not need to see the GP to get a repeat.

Buying any prescription meds outside the state and importing them is probably illegal. If you try it by post the Irish Medicines Board will eventually intercept them and ask you to explain yourself !

Buying prescriptions meds over the internet will probably fall foul of the IMB too when they come in through the post. Additionally, it is a dangerous practice to buy meds over the net for reasons of quality control and self prescribing.

Your GP did not spend all those years in college for nothing you know !!!

scuby

i think the charging for any repeat prescription is a bit of a p*ss take by Dr's.

Like for asthma inhalers etc..... in my local dr's surgery, there is a sign with a rate, not much lower than a consultation rate, for all repeat prescriptions to be written

bit of a rip off to be honest....

cathy01

Yeah, Here I pay €50 for GP visit for scrip for two in halers.They then cost me €50 again to get, more really.
In spain, you go iNTO THE CHEMIST AND BUT THE OVER THE COUNTER FOR€10.
Its a disgrace.Its like witht he vitamins, they want to start controlling them.IMB been them.
Its big brother state.I know att imes we need to see a Doctor but I cant for the life of me think why , you can purchase so items over the counter all over the world but here you must see your GP first and pay €50.
We laughed the other day casue my frined was going on hoilday to spain and all her other frineds where saying "bring me back a stick of Rock."I was saying can I have.
Two ventilion and Three beactide inhalers.
Rant over,
cathy
ps slept late today.:)

williambonney

scuby wrote: »

i think the charging for any repeat prescription is a bit of a p*ss take by Dr's.

Like for asthma inhalers etc..... in my local dr's surgery, there is a sign with a rate, not much lower than a consultation rate, for all repeat prescriptions to be written

bit of a rip off to be honest....

Of course it's a rip off, this is Ireland, you will be ripped off by so called "professionals" at every opportunity.

DrIndy

scuby wrote: »

i think the charging for any repeat prescription is a bit of a p*ss take by Dr's.

Like for asthma inhalers etc..... in my local dr's surgery, there is a sign with a rate, not much lower than a consultation rate, for all repeat prescriptions to be written

bit of a rip off to be honest....

Its not a ripoff - the doctor has to pull your chart, then check what you are on - go through all your notes to be sure that it is ok to keep repeating the prescription and then write out the script.

So you are not in fact buying a piece of paper and its not a ripoff.

Victor

Consider phoning your GPs office and asking for a repeat prescription, but ask do you need to actually see the doctor or can you just collect the prescription.

You also need to ask yourself why you need the sleeping tablets - are you and your GP doing anything to solve the root problem.

scuby

DrIndy wrote: »

Its not a ripoff - the doctor has to pull your chart, then check what you are on - go through all your notes to be sure that it is ok to keep repeating the prescription and then write out the script.

So you are not in fact buying a piece of paper and its not a ripoff.

the secretary usually pulls the chart and highlights the last prescription and the Dr would usually have made a note of what was prescribed on the last visit. so the Dr would know fairly quickly, without having to re-examine the patient or do an in-dept scan through the notes
They could just charge a nominal fee instead !

Misticles

thats like me. im on the pill and at the moment my current gp wont give me more than a months prescription cos he is not my "gp" cos my one died months ago. everything seems to be in care of him though. so anytime i want my pill ive to take a morning off work to go and get it. it would be alot handier to just write me up 6 months.

Chunky Monkey

DrIndy wrote: »

Its not a ripoff - the doctor has to pull your chart, then check what you are on - go through all your notes to be sure that it is ok to keep repeating the prescription and then write out the script.

So you are not in fact buying a piece of paper and its not a ripoff.

To be honest that's not a convincing argument.

tallaght01

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

To be honest that's not a convincing argument.

I think it's a pretty convincing argument. It just may not be an argument we like to hear.

Your GP is a businessman/woman, whether you like it or not.

The govt has chosen not to provide free primary healthcare to the population. I worked int he Uk for along time, where free primary healthcare is provided, along with free repeat prescriptions etc. The lack of a fee does result in a LOT of pisstaking, it has to be said.

But, to stay witht he matter at hand, somebody has to pull your file. The GP has to pay them for this. Your file has been stored in a facility with very high insurance. The rent mortgage on any property in Ireland is bound to be exorbitant, so you're paying your piece of that.You're paying for your GPs expertise. you're paying for the high indemnity insurance he pays in case the drugs he prescribes kills you.

I went to a lawyer today to get a signature witnessed. Cost me 50euro. Took literally 15 seconds.

GPs charge high fees, like dentists, lawyers. accountants etc do. They're all highly trained professionals. They all have a big responsibility. They all face a big financial fallout if they mess up.

It might be just the pill or an inhaler to you, but you can pretty much guarantee if you develop a blood clot becuase the doc didn't check your history properly, or if you develop a tachyarrythmia, you'll be chatting to your lawyer.

cathy01

No Sorry.I cant justify a fee of €50 to be told yep, your results are fine.Why cant they say that over the phone.
Or , fgo to GP, he says son needs a blood test.He doesnt do them anymore , call back in 3 weeks and the nurse will do it.Oh €50 for today..€25 for the blodd test €50 to come back and hopefully be told all is clear.Its wrong.And as for Doctors talking blame, no.It took years for Dr Neary to be highlited.
I think its robbery.Just becasue others do it , does not make it right.When your sick you do not have a choice but to see a Doctor.
cathy

tallaght01

cathy01 wrote: »

No Sorry.I cant justify a fee of €50 to be told yep, your results are fine.Why cant they say that over the phone.
Or , fgo to GP, he says son needs a blood test.He doesnt do them anymore , call back in 3 weeks and the nurse will do it.Oh €50 for today..€25 for the blodd test €50 to come back and hopefully be told all is clear.Its wrong.And as for Doctors talking blame, no.It took years for Dr Neary to be highlited.
I think its robbery.Just becasue others do it , does not make it right.When your sick you do not have a choice but to see a Doctor.
cathy

I think obviously Dr. Neary was an unusual case. But he was still struck off eventually. Even if it takes a long time, the consequences of a mistake in medicine can be to to lose you career and income. That's not the case in most jobs.

I also disagree that giving blood tests is a simple procedure. It's fine if they're normal, but they have to be interpreted etc. The results don't just come back with "healthy patient" written on them.

Having said that, the public will always dislike paying GPs. Interestingly in the Uk, where it's free, people often complain that there's no fee...as this would stop the time wasters.

Anyway, the reason I'm replying is that Cathy 01 said ""when you're sick you do not have a choice but to see a doctor", as if that should affect the fee charged.

Now, I'm a bit of a leftie when it comes to medicine. Believe in free healthcare for all etc etc.

But, taking the current situation as it is (ie most people have to pay to see their GP)...is it the GPs problem that you have to see him/her when you're sick?

I personally don't think it is. I think your GP runs a business. I think it's up to the government to provide the funding for your healthcare. I don't think a lawyer should reduce his fees becuase when you're being sued you have no choice but to see him.

What I'm saying is, I don't think you should get at your GP. he's doing nothing different than a lawyer/accountant/dentist etc.

The reason you pay big money to see your GP is because the government don't subsidise primary healthcare for many many people in this country, so basically you're hiring a private physician. He costs about 50euro. I saw a consultant privately in Dublin recently when I was sick, and he cost 150euro.

It's a private business. you would expect those kind of charges from a VHI clinic or something, so why not from a GP?

Any thoughts?

cathy01

I know what you mean about it been free.
Our local GP is the only one in the town that takes medical cards.You can not get a appointment with him.
I had to change to a private one so I can get a appointment.
Cathy

tallaght01

It's an interesting point Cathy01.

Are people on the medical card taking the piss? Or is it the fact that they're less well off simply predisposing them to more illness?

It does annoy me that access to primary health in this country depends on your ability to pay.

I remember, as I guess most of you do, back in the 80s when people hadn't a pot to piss in. I rememeber my parents, and neighbours etc not going to the doctor unless they were really really ill. I remmeber how we had to be on death's door before you could justify going to the local GP.

Basically, it knocked the concept of early diagnosis out the window. Also, preventative medicine was never going to happen.

At 50euros a pop nowadays, it must still be an issue, although maybe not as acute in the Celtic tiger. Though I suppose there are still many people in the country who simply don't see their GP when they think they need to, because of the cost.

That really pissed me off when I was a kid in the 80s, and it still pisses me off now. Though, like I said before, I regard the onus to be on the govt for the provision of accessible primary healthcare. I don't think it's neccesarily the responsibility of GPs. I mean, hospital docs aren't responsible for your access to secondary healthcare.

Here's another interesting point that was once made to me by a GP....it's not neccesarily my opinon, but I'd be really ineterested in other peoples' thoughts on it......he told me that people complain that he doesn't care about them because he charges 55euro when they're ill, and multiples of that when there's several members of their familes ill.....

Then he said "why should I stress about them? When I was a junior doc working 120 hours per week, they didn't care about me. People never shout about the conditions their junior docs work under. They didn't care that I lost most of my 20s serving them. They didn't care that there's a group of youg people working literally slave labour under their noses. If they're not concerned about my health (which was horrific under those conditions) then I'm not going to stress about theirs. I'll serve them to the best of my abilities. But, I worked for less money than the cleaners to serve them, so i'm going to take back whatever I can get. it's a free market."

Obviously not quoted verbatim :P But you get the point! Like I said, not my opinon, but I was stumped for a reply.

the_syco

tallaght01 wrote: »

he told me that people complain that he doesn't care about them because he charges 55euro when they're ill, and multiples of that when there's several members of their familes ill.....

It used to be €40, now it's €55. Saying that, I've switched doctors twice. The 1st was a family doctor, the 2nd was better, but the 3rd is so far the best. Actually says in plain English what's up, using jibber-jabber speak only when he has to.

=-=

cathy01: do the blood test in hospital. Pretty sure it's non-expensive, but you'll still need someone to explain wtf the results mean. Also, if your doc does it, they can compare it to the last one, or maybe one a few years back, and say if your health is improving, or nose-diving. And tbh, if you're getting a blood check, it's to see if there's something wrong with you. If you got one done 2 years ago, the doc may be able to say X is lower, eat more Y, and that's it.

Chunky Monkey

I think it's a pretty convincing argument. It just may not be an argument we like to hear.

No, it really wasn't a convincing argument Tallaght. If he had said that GPs have to pay for expenses such as staff, premises, stationary etc out of their own wages I would have, as a layman, been more convinced.

I'd only go to a GP if I was very ill too as I don't have a medical card and don't have a stable job.

Then he said "why should I stress about them? When I was a junior doc working 120 hours per week, they didn't care about me. People never shout about the conditions their junior docs work under. They didn't care that I lost most of my 20s serving them. They didn't care that there's a group of youg people working literally slave labour under their noses. If they're not concerned about my health (which was horrific under those conditions) then I'm not going to stress about theirs. I'll serve them to the best of my abilities. But, I worked for less money than the cleaners to serve them, so i'm going to take back whatever I can get. it's a free market."

An eye for eye makes the whole world blind.

tallaght01

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

No, it really wasn't a convincing argument Tallaght. If he had said that GPs have to pay for expenses such as staff, premises, stationary etc out of their own wages I would have, as a layman, been more convinced.

I'd only go to a GP if I was very ill too as I don't have a medical card and don't have a stable job.

I think the whole point DrIndy was making is, as he said, you're not buying a piece of paper. This seems to be at the root of people's anger. they keep talking about how easy it is, and you just have to sign something, or just read a blood result out.

I would struggle to name every expense that you're paying a part of with every routine transactions in GPs surgery, but it's important to realise that you're not just paying for what you get in your hand.

chunkymonkey wrote:

An eye for eye makes the whole world blind.

Now there's an unconvincing argument It doesn't really address the issue. Why should junior docs, who get treated like absoloute crap, while the public look on, care about the patients' welfare after 10 years of slave labour.

I'm not saying that's the case, and I personally still care a great deal for my patients. But the point the guy was making is an interesting one, which I wasn't able to answer convincingly without resorting to tired old replies of the "you knew what you were getting into when you signed up" variety.

Tree

the_syco wrote: »

It used to be €40, now it's €55. Saying that, I've switched doctors twice. The 1st was a family doctor, the 2nd was better, but the 3rd is so far the best. Actually says in plain English what's up, using jibber-jabber speak only when he has to.

=-=

cathy01: do the blood test in hospital. Pretty sure it's non-expensive, but you'll still need someone to explain wtf the results mean. Also, if your doc does it, they can compare it to the last one, or maybe one a few years back, and say if your health is improving, or nose-diving. And tbh, if you're getting a blood check, it's to see if there's something wrong with you. If you got one done 2 years ago, the doc may be able to say X is lower, eat more Y, and that's it.

you need a referral to get a blood test done in a hospital. and some hospitals wont take private patients blood. and understanding the results is a hell of a lot more confusing than ppl think.

i dont begrudge my doctor money to take up her time. i expect to be paid when i work, why shouldnt she?

2Scoops

I was told in training that repeat prescriptions and patients returning with the same pathology, unresolved by a recent initial treatment, should not necessarily be charged the 'full whack,' but that, ultimately, it's a call for the individual GP to make. In the case of the bitter doctor mentioned by Tallaght01, why should he charge less for his time when it is optional?

tallaght01

My GP in Dublin does what 2scoops mentions above.

if you return with the same symptoms, and the course of treatment he has prescribed hasn't resolved the issue, then he charges about 20euros. Of if two or more members of the same family present, it's about 70euros. Though that's still a fair whack.

When i worked in New Zealand, the governement paid for all GP consultations if the patient is 6 years old or below.

I thought that was a really good idea, although it falls short of the UK's free at the point of delivery model of healthcare that I really admire...in principle.

Chunky Monkey

Now there's an unconvincing argument It doesn't really address the issue. Why should junior docs, who get treated like absoloute crap, while the public look on, care about the patients' welfare after 10 years of slave labour.

I'm not saying that's the case, and I personally still care a great deal for my patients. But the point the guy was making is an interesting one, which I wasn't able to answer convincingly without resorting to tired old replies of the "you knew what you were getting into when you signed up" variety.

Haha ye I realised it wasn't exactly relevant after I'd posted that but decided to leave it. I was gonna say 'but you knew what you were getting into'. Apart from that I dunno what to say either :rolleyes:

When i worked in New Zealand, the governement paid for all GP consultations if the patient is 6 years old or below.

That is a good idea. Kids tend to sick easier than teenagers for example (I think). Chickenpox and all that craic.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think it is a bit much to charge €50 for repeats, or results. In fairness to the doc I go to he charges €50 normally but when I had to come back for results/further p[rescription he charged me between €10-30 a go

Chunky Monkey

Did you read the arguments above? GPs have to pay for things themselves unlike say a cardiologist working in a public hospital (so I've heard). It sounds like a ripoff but when you put it into context...

If I get an offer for med school in the UK I have to get an occupational health form signed by my GP. I've never gone to see a GP in this country. Does anyone know would I have to go for a check up before they signed it (read: would I have to part with €55)?

tallaght01

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

If I get an offer for med school in the UK I have to get an occupational health form signed by my GP. I've never gone to see a GP in this country. Does anyone know would I have to go for a check up before they signed it (read: would I have to part with €55)?

My GP doesn't charge me if I need to see him when I return to Dublin. Hasn't done since I was a med student. Kind of a professional courtesy I guess.

But even before I started med school, he didn't charge me for the things like the hepatitis screening and occy health forms that I needed, so you may not have to shell out. If you get accepted, you're likely to be this guy's colleague in a few years, so it's a bit scabby to charge you. He should also keep you sweet, as he might be trying to refer patients to you on a busy friday someday soon


I went to a dentist a while ago, and he only charged me half price as "professional courtesy". Never had that before. Fair play to him though.

Chunky Monkey

The hospital I used to work in paid for my hep B shots and blood test so that's sorted phew Hope I meet a nice GP like yours, I'm gonna go to the health centre in Ballymun. Met a girl at my interview whose mum is a GP there. My dentist's secretary recently told me I have to pay €2900 within six months or my braces aren't coming off Though that's only cos I've had them for 18 months now and have paid very little of it so they have been very nice before overall plus my dentist is a dote so I can't say anything bad about him.

2Scoops

tallaght01 wrote: »

If you get accepted, you're likely to be this guy's colleague in a few years, so it's a bit scabby to charge you.

How is it scabby if doctors are just business people like everyone else?

tallaght01

Well, there tends to be at least some bonhomie between medics, in my experience.

I personally think we should look after the students. We do have a rsponsibility to them.

Maybe "scabby" was the wrong word

But a doc charging a medical student for the basics of entering the profession is a bit scabbby

Or maybe that's my imagination. I've only seen a doc a handful of times since I started med school.

Is a "professional discount" the exception or the rule?

Most recently, I had an op privately. Even though it was paid for by my insurance, the doc and the anaesthetist knocked 30% off their fees.

But I saw a private consultant just beforehand, which wasn't covered by my insurance, and he charged me the full 150 euro for a very brief consultation.

Having said that, as grateful as I am for reduced healthcare costs, I'd rather they were passed onto those less able to pay for it.

Chunky Monkey

My mum's a nurse manager in a private hospital. She's had to go for quite a few different consultations lately and none of the consultants have charged her. She's quite popular

nicolam

But sleeping tablets are not good for you on a long term basis(back to post)...perhaps there is a reason your doctor wants to see you..whether results are normal or not, that doesn't mean you should be on them longterm...

GuanYin

Our family practice used to offer a reduced rate for follow up consults, but to be honest, it wasn't cost effective.

Indy is right there is alot more involved than you think with any consult. There is staffing, insurance and other overheads to consider. As Tallaght pointed out, go to a soliciter in Ireland....

In fact, go to the US... hah!

punchestown

PSI: Las Vegas wrote: »

Our family practice used to offer a reduced rate for follow up consults, but to be honest, it wasn't cost effective.

Indy is right there is alot more involved than you think with any consult. There is staffing, insurance and other overheads to consider. As Tallaght pointed out, go to a soliciter in Ireland....

In fact, go to the US... hah!

the GP in question owns the property that his clinic is based in. He rents the upstairs rooms out (3 in total) and there always seems to be full occupancy. He employs no secretary, no cleaner in fact no-one else but himself. I grant you he incurs charges for heating and lighting the place but I would assume that due to his tight fisted approach to practise he passes these charges off to his tenants! In relation to paper, research etc, he uses a pc with a solid database which has details of every visit and prescription etc. It takes him 2 seconds to type in your date of birth in order to retrieve your file. Yes the man has worked extremely hard to achieve the position he is in now and he is free to charge whatever rate he feels his sick patients will pay but is that the sole motivation for being in such a career?
My former gp was the antithesis. He would have been the family GP back through the decades. The early 80's were a tough time for a family of 7 on a one income wage particulalrly so when that wage was reduced to zero during a company strike that ran for some months. the GP in question, aware of the family circumstances, refused payment on three occasions that myself and my siblings needed treatment. On top of that, he would often have different forms of meds around his office, that if applicable to the condition being treated, would provide in order to avoid the incumbent charge of a prescription. Sadly for the poor man, he was struck down with MS that he has suffered with for near 25 years. That still did not prevent him from continuing his role and its only in the last 5 years that he has succumbed to the disease and is now no longer able to perform his vocation. I can recall visits to the man during my college days and him enquiring as to what i was doing and where I was studying. Come payment time, he would sheepishly ask me for £5, at a time whne the standard charge was £20 (as if he was the one at the behest of my services!) and again if he had the meds in-house he would have no hesitation in supplying same. If it was a request for a repeat prescrip, there would be no charge at all although by this stage his hand-writing due to the rigours of illness would make the prescription so inlegible, you could claim for anything at the chemists!
The fact that I resent paying €55 a go is because I am a revolving door patient. I am in and out within a minute. I am due back into him tommorrow, having finished up my last prescription of 7 tablets the other night. (hence this post being made at 3 in the morning) I take the tablets sparingly and they are a big help. I would usually take on on a Sunday evening to get me a good nights sleep at the start of the working week and 1 again Thursday evening (to get me a good nights sleep for the weekend ahead) I am not looking for a prescription of 28 tablets every month but a sensible approach to my request for a tablet every 4 days or so and I would appreciate it if my GP would put this consideration to the forefront rather than seeing it as an opportunity to garnish another €55 from a patient who cannot afford such.

GuanYin

In fairness, its a consumers market.

If you're not a happy with your GP, you can easily change. There are still those who aren't so "tight fisted" but on the other hand, there are patients who will take advantage of the good nature of some GPs too. When we initially bought into the partnership, we found that the GP was owed thousands from patients he had told "get me next time when you have it" and they never did.

I agree to a point that a refill shouldn't be 55 euro, personally, I'd just call it in or write a script for time lapsed refills. I'd say change GP.