Breastfed baby won't take bottle.

killwill

Hi everyone, my daughter is now 15 weeks and was breastfed exclusively for about 9 weeks. We then introduced her to breastmilk expressed into bottles. She took to the bottle no problem. But 3 weeks ago we decided to introduce formula hoping to stick to occasional breastfeeding, but she won't take to formula at all. The poor thing just screams the house down. We started with Cow and Gate for two weeks and then changed to Aptimal as it was recommended to us. No matter how hungry Penny is she still won't take to it. We asked around and all we were told is to let her go hungry she will eventually take it. Anyone in here with any advice? It would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

tallaght01

Hey killwill. Keep the chin up. Feeding at this age can be a nightmare. Nipple confusion is a real problem for babies. Same when a baby who is initially fed on a bottle tries to adapt to breastfeeding. They get used to it eventually, by and large. It's tough times though. Do you have a health visitor, or experienced parent who can help with your technique. I know that sounds dumb, but there are ways to encourage babies to suck on the teat etc.

Some people use special feeding cups aswell. You can let the baby feed from the bottle initially, then when they get tired or whatever, you feed them from a special cup. It means they get time to practise on their bottle, but get enough fluids of they get tired. It's just a short term solution though.

Keep ploughing on. Your baby will eventually start to feed. Can just take a while. The most important thing is to get someone to help, if that's possible. Because otherwise you end up with a stressed mummy, and that's not condusive to happy, feeding baby

Hope everything goes well for you.

littlebug

killwill wrote: »

Hi everyone, my daughter is now 15 weeks and was breastfed exclusively for about 9 weeks. We then introduced her to breastmilk expressed into bottles. She took to the bottle no problem. But 3 weeks ago we decided to introduce formula hoping to stick to occasional breastfeeding, but she won't take to formula at all. The poor thing just screams the house down. We started with Cow and Gate for two weeks and then changed to Aptimal as it was recommended to us. No matter how hungry Penny is she still won't take to it. We asked around and all we were told is to let her go hungry she will eventually take it. Anyone in here with any advice? It would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Poor thing! I have to say i don't agree with the "let them go hungry" advice. It just seems cruel and the poor baba will likely get so worked up she'll scream even more! I've been there done that with my youngest except he wouldn't take a bottle at all so at least you've that much sorted!

Can you mix breastmilk and formula? With more bm to start with so the taste of the formula isn't overwhelming... then graduallly reduce the breastmilk as she gets used to it (at her pace). There's still the hassle of pumping for the amount of time it takes to switch completely but it could be worth a try.

Kildrought

Unless there is a compelling need to feed artificial milk - why not stick w. b/feeding for now when she is obviously thriving on it?

In about 10 weeks or so you will most likely be thinking of starting on solids and not long after that she will be able to handle a cup & take water / very dilute juice - and you can skip the bottle trauma altogether

embee

Hi,

one of ye mentioned nipple confusion - this isn't strictly speaking a true phenomenon. It is not so much "nipple" confusion as it is "sucking mechanism" confusion. A breastfed baby sucks in a different way to a bottlefed baby. A breastfed baby will only get milk into the mouth when it sucks. A bottle will still slowly empty milk into the babys mouth whether they suck or not. A useful way to try to introduce formula to your daughter would possibly be to use a Habermans feeder (see link below). It is like a bottle, but will only deliver milk when baby sucks. Your baby clearly knows that she is sucking differently and is getting different, perhaps less tasty milk, as a result. A Habermanns feeder will allow your baby to suck as though she were breastfeeding - her mouth will not fill up with milk as it would with a conventional teat. People I know have used this device with great success when weaning from breast to bottle.

You can't really expect a baby to accept a sudden jump from breastmilk to formula without some sort of protest. A baby enjoys what it knows, so to change their milk very suddenly will produce a rejection of the new food. Formula milk would be harder to digest for your little one initially (this could be evident in her nappies... breastfed babies have poo that doesn't really smell at all and is very soft. Formula fed babies can sometimes become constipated and their stools can be a lot more solid and harder to pass). I would suggest expressing breast milk and giving it to her in a bottle. Every couple of days you need to mix it with a couple of ounces of formula milk, and up the ratio of breast : formula every couple of days.

Your baby is of an age where weaning onto solids isn't too far away. It is recommended that breastfed babies are weaned at around the 6 month mark, but your baby is not exclusively breastfed anymore and may want to wean earlier than 6 months.

I would not recommend you "let her go hungry" - this will only serve to stress Mother, Father and baby out. Expressed breastmilk mixed with formula (until you phase the breastmilk out over a couple of weeks) is your best bet.

Good luck.

Habermans Feeder link : http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/pdfs/Haberman_Inst.pdf

embee

Kildrought wrote: »

Unless there is a compelling need to feed artificial milk - why not stick w. b/feeding for now when she is obviously thriving on it?

In about 10 weeks or so you will most likely be thinking of starting on solids and not long after that she will be able to handle a cup & take water / very dilute juice - and you can skip the bottle trauma altogether

This isn't great advice, to be honest. Babies (whether breast or bottle fed) need to take milk onboard every day until the age of 1, after which time cows milk can be introduced. Substituting milk with juice or water is not good for baby - they need the fat and other nutrients in either breastmilk or formula. Drinking out of a cup before the age of 1 is fine, but it should be in addition to babys bottle, not instead of it.

littlebug

The OP said the baby will take a bottle so it's getting used to the formula taste that's the issue not the bottle itself.
Some babies don't take well to a cup until they're much older. Mine would only ever take an ounce or so at a time.

embee

littlebug wrote: »

The OP said the baby will take a bottle so it's getting used to the formula taste that's the issue not the bottle itself.
Some babies don't take well to a cup until they're much older. Mine would only ever take an ounce or so at a time.

I suggested the Habermans feeder as a response to tallaght01's comments on nipple confusion - it is useful advice to anyone else in a similar situation to the OP but whose baby won't even take the bottle.

High&Low

OP - try making up two bottles, one with formula one with breast milk. Start with the breast milk and half way through try and switch to the bottle of formula (making sure its the same temprature), this might work.

littlebug

embee wrote: »

I suggested the Habermans feeder as a response to tallaght01's comments on nipple confusion - it is useful advice to anyone else in a similar situation to the OP but whose baby won't even take the bottle.

I knew that Embee... I just thought that other responses seemed to focus on the bottle side of things.

I've never seen the Habermans before. I came close to buying a breastbottle
http://www.adiri.com/products_html/nurser.asp having tried every other bottle and teat in the shops!

Back to the OP I think mixing bm and formula is the way to go.

tallaght01

embee wrote: »

one of ye mentioned nipple confusion - this isn't strictly speaking a true phenomenon. It is not so much "nipple" confusion as it is "sucking mechanism" confusion. A breastfed baby sucks in a different way to a bottlefed baby.

This is the essence of nipple confusion. When you change from one to the other, the kiddy doesn't change their suck for a while.

Having said that, most babies aren't too bothered with nipple confusion. But when they are, it can be a real nuisance.

I would still re-iterate what i said before about getting some expert help, if it's the OPs first baby.

As an example, I admitted a kid to our neonatal unit a couple of weekends ago. Was referred to me by a community midwife with poor feeding and lots of weight loss.

Once we got the kid into the department, our midwives fed the kid no bother, and showed mum what do do. Result, one well baby, and one happy mum, discharged 48 hours later. I'm not saying it's a technique issue, as I know nothing about the baby, but might be worth asking an older hand to try feeding him/her, to see if they geta result.

embee

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm not saying it's a technique issue, as I know nothing about the baby, but might be worth asking an older hand to try feeding him/her, to see if they geta result.

I agree completely. Babies are very astute when it comes to picking up on vibes, and a baby will sense if a parent is tense and anxious when feeding. Then it becomes a vicious cycle - baby won't feed because parents are stressed, parents get more stressed, baby gets more belligerent about refusing formula etc. I know its crazy to think, but sometimes just letting someone else sit down with your baby and feed them can work wonders.

Kildrought

Substituting milk with juice or water

I did not suggest that - what I said was to stick with b/feeding, and introduce a cup (again did not say to drop b/feeding) at the appropriate time.

killwill

We cannot even go down the route of mixing feeds now as since we tried to formula she refuses to even take breast milk from a bottle. I never realised how stubborn babies can be!!!!!(needless to say she didn't pick it up off the ground)!!! SHe is thriving on the breast but unfortunately mammy needs to go back to work sometime and it's not fair on my partner having so little free time of her own. Evening times too seem a little hard on the baby as she tends to feed more then and can't get enough.

littlebug

killwill wrote: »

We cannot even go down the route of mixing feeds now as since we tried to formula she refuses to even take breast milk from a bottle. I never realised how stubborn babies can be!!!!!(needless to say she didn't pick it up off the ground)!!! SHe is thriving on the breast but unfortunately mammy needs to go back to work sometime and it's not fair on my partner having so little free time of her own. Evening times too seem a little hard on the baby as she tends to feed more then and can't get enough.

Ugh so the bottle has become an issue too. I feel your pain (or your wife's pain ) I intended to feed my little one for 3 months but ended up feeding him til he was nearly 8 months. I would actually suggest not even trying again for a little while because she now associates the bottle with the formula taste that she doesn't like so you'll nearly need to start over again.
It wasn't until my son was well established on solids and therefore used to different tastes that he would take a bottle. He had also reached a very nosy phase so I held him facing straight out from me so that he could watch his sister play, therefore he kind of forgot about me and guzzled down the bottle easily in the end. Having someone else rather than your wife or you is a good idea also.

Kildrought

as she tends to feed more then and can't get enough

This is pretty normal - often referred to as cluster feeding.

It's quite possible to continue b/feeding and return to work - with extended maternity leave/annual leave/unpaid leave etc., etc., there's a good chance you would get to around 8 months or so and it's a lot easier at that stage to b/feed mornings/evenings and before bed time during the week and baby will be on solids/water/very diluted juices during the day. B/feeding at weekends will help to keep supply up.

You'll find a lot of useful information on returning to work on rollercoaster - there's a very active b/feeding board there (and on other boards also, but rollercoaster is the one I know of).

killwill

Thanks so much for the replies everyone, Im gonna go home and talk with my partner and we will set out a plan. I reckon if we wait until the New Year and start on breastmilk bottles for awhile, once baby is content on this again we should maybe try a cocktail of breastmilk and formula, adding less and less of the breastmilk. Do ye think that is probably our best option? Again thanks for the help.

killwill

Oh and I think a little peptalk with the wee one is due too, ha!!!!!!!!!

Kildrought

Personally I'd say the best option is to stay with breastfeeding.

tallaght01

killwill wrote: »

Thanks so much for the replies everyone, Im gonna go home and talk with my partner and we will set out a plan. I reckon if we wait until the New Year and start on breastmilk bottles for awhile, once baby is content on this again we should maybe try a cocktail of breastmilk and formula, adding less and less of the breastmilk. Do ye think that is probably our best option? Again thanks for the help.

As you can see from the diversity of the above replies, feeding a baby isn't an exact science.

The best option is whichever one works for you, your partner, and the little ball of terror.

Try the various options, and decide yourself which suits you guys the best. You'll find something that works.

These are supposed to be the happiest times of your life. Try not to stress too much. Hope everything goes well. Let us know how you get on.

killwill

Kildrought wrote: »

Personally I'd say the best option is to stay with breastfeeding.

There is no doubt in mine or my partners mind that breastfeeding is the best option, but we cannot ignore the inevitable which is my partner has a career and in two months will be back at work. We cannot just breastfeed exclusively and hope that everything will just be fine. My gf absolutely loves breastfeeding and ideally would have loved to breastfeed exclusively for as long as possible.

Kildrought

career and in two months will be back at work

It is possible to do both...but, I grant you, the motivation has to be there - if you / your partner is interested there are plenty of women (myself included!) who have done so and can share their experiences.

luckat

Suckling from the breast is done at the front of the mouth, whereas suckling on a normal bottle nipple is done from the back of the tongue. Different skills.

If you shop around you may be able to find a bottle and nipples that are sucked in the same way as the breast - you might try Mothercare.

Don't worry if you can't find these - it's a little foreign for the baby, learning the new skill, which probably will make the poor mite gag at first. But once the kid gets the hang of it, you'll be fine.

You might try using a soother, which is sucked in much the same way as a bottle nipple, and so will develop the skill.

Shelli

embee wrote: »

I agree completely. Babies are very astute when it comes to picking up on vibes, and a baby will sense if a parent is tense and anxious when feeding. Then it becomes a vicious cycle - baby won't feed because parents are stressed, parents get more stressed, baby gets more belligerent about refusing formula etc. I know its crazy to think, but sometimes just letting someone else sit down with your baby and feed them can work wonders.

My little guy would only take a bottle off his dad or grandparents when we started the switch, he knew I had breastmilk and refused to take bottle from me, i swear he could smell breastmilk on me and just seem to demand it if I was feeding him, he'd take a bottle if anyone else was feeding him though.

I've heard of mixing formula and breastmilk and gradually taking out the breastmilk. This is suppsed to help with slowing your own supply too, so you wont get sore boobs..

embee

killwill wrote: »

There is no doubt in mine or my partners mind that breastfeeding is the best option, but we cannot ignore the inevitable which is my partner has a career and in two months will be back at work. We cannot just breastfeed exclusively and hope that everything will just be fine. My gf absolutely loves breastfeeding and ideally would have loved to breastfeed exclusively for as long as possible.

If your girlfriend is finding the going tough, I can completely relate to that. Ye both need to have a serious think about the practicalities of breastfeeding - I know for me that practically speaking it wasn't doable in the long term.

It might be worth sticking with the breastfeeding until your baby is close to weaning onto solids. The new textures and flavours that she will experience when you start to wean her could leave her more open to the idea of trying the bottle.

Kildrought wrote: »

It is possible to do both...but, I grant you, the motivation has to be there - if you / your partner is interested there are plenty of women (myself included!) who have done so and can share their experiences.

I agree with you there, it is possible for sure but you have to be motivated to go with it. Look into parental leave, health and safety leave, flexi-time and job-sharing.

luckat wrote: »

You might try using a soother, which is sucked in much the same way as a bottle nipple, and so will develop the skill.

Personally I wouldn't introduce a soother. There is very little point to them - some newborns would have a very active sucking reflex and can enjoy the soother, but a baby of 15 weeks won't have that desire to suck all the time and a soother could prove a huge frustration if baby is sucking away and not getting any food in return.

Shelli wrote: »

My little guy would only take a bottle off his dad or grandparents when we started the switch, he knew I had breastmilk and refused to take bottle from me, i swear he could smell breastmilk on me and just seem to demand it if I was feeding him, he'd take a bottle if anyone else was feeding him though.

I've heard of mixing formula and breastmilk and gradually taking out the breastmilk. This is suppsed to help with slowing your own supply too, so you wont get sore boobs..

I would definitely suggest to the OP that his gf tries not to feed the baby herself if they are trying to switch to bottles. It will be hard but the reliance on mothers breastmilk, particularly whilst the baby hasn't been weaned, will make it very confusing for a baby who has been breastfed from the get go to suddenly start drinking bottles. OP, you or other family members (if possible) should try to feed the bottle to the baby, but your gf should if possible not even be in the room when your baby is being bottle fed, at least until she gets the idea that her food is coming from the bottle.

killwill

Hey again. Looking through the posts I think some posters have misunderstood me. Penny had no problem whatsoever bottlefeeding. It only took two or three attempts. The problem is solely with the taste of formula. WHen my partner goes back to work she will still be breastfeeding also. Job sharing is not an option as where she works they are seriously understaffed and overworked. New house and big mortgage stops her from taking any additional leave unpaid too.

nesf

Have you tried a few different brands of formula and are you using the one for newborns or the "stage 2" one?

myjugsarehuge

Is it an option to express enough breast milk for 2 or 3 bottles, she will cut down to perhaps 3 or 4 milk feeds a day soon if she is nearly 4 months old so might only need a couple of bottles for while you are at work ?

I breastfed my 2 babies exclusively for 10 or 11 weeks then they had formula during the day at the childminders and the breast still morning and night. I still breastfed the early morning feed till they were about 8 months old. I was actually pregnant with my daughter and still continued breastfeeding my son for a few weeks, the doctor said it would be fine and I'd soon stop when I felt it was time, how right she was !

Like the OP says it isn't the bottle itself that is the problem but maybe its not the formula either. Babies do pick up on stress but will rarely starve themselves so perhaps letting someone else feed her and taking yourself off completely will help. If the baby is hungry enough she will stop screaming and drink it eventually, but the person doing the feeding will have to be prepared to weather the storm maybe for hours, particularly if she is a determined little lass. She may well cry herself to sleep even but she won't come to any harm and will hopefully wake up and realise that crying doesn't make your breast come back, and will take the formula.

Offer plenty of water/diluted juice in a bottle as she is probably thirsty even if she doesn't want the milk. My kids wouldn't drink milk from a cup at all so if she won't drink much milk when she is weaned you can incoporate calcium into her diet in other ways ; yoghurts, custard, cheese and adding milk/cheese to mash potato etc. I never drink milk and my son who is 14 hasn't drunk it since he stopped having formula, its not the be all and end all.

Hope things work out well for you and try not to get stressed, easier said than done I know.

Nevyn

killwill wrote: »

Hey again. Looking through the posts I think some posters have misunderstood me. Penny had no problem whatsoever bottlefeeding. It only took two or three attempts. The problem is solely with the taste of formula. WHen my partner goes back to work she will still be breastfeeding also. Job sharing is not an option as where she works they are seriously understaffed and overworked. New house and big mortgage stops her from taking any additional leave unpaid too.

Get her to have a look at her companies hr policies and see if they support breastfeeding. Two of my jobs did and a 'nursing' mother had access to a room to take a break to express and there was a fridge there also to store the breast milk, until she was going home.

Ayla

myjugsarehuge wrote: »

Offer plenty of water/diluted juice in a bottle as she is probably thirsty even if she doesn't want the milk. My kids wouldn't drink milk from a cup at all so if she won't drink much milk when she is weaned you can incoporate calcium into her diet in other ways ; yoghurts, custard, cheese and adding milk/cheese to mash potato etc. I never drink milk and my son who is 14 hasn't drunk it since he stopped having formula, its not the be all and end all.

Some good points in your post, however I have to disagree with these comments. The OP's daughter is only about 4 months, so introducing diluted juice may be a bit premature. And when she is weaned, introducing cheese and yoghurt isn't recommended until at least the age of 1 (cow's milk).

I b/feed exclusively until my DD was 6-7 months, at which time I expressed bottles for the childminder and I fed early morning & nights. But by this time my DD was starting on solids and the b/feeding gradually reduced to nothing. I gave (and still give) her pure water and soy milk for fluids.

OP, your g/f is doing fine w/ the b/feeding. If she's up for it encourage her to continue expressing and forget formula altogether. If the babe is content with the breastmilk and your g/f is happy to feed, there is no reason she has to switch to formula.

Employers are required by law to allow b/feeding mothers time and the location to express during the workday, and although it may not be the most ideal of situations, if you g/f is content w/ b/feeding then it is definitely possible to continue doing so even when working full time.

Quality

Thaedydal wrote: »

Get her to have a look at her companies hr policies and see if they support breastfeeding. Two of my jobs did and a 'nursing' mother had access to a room to take a break to express and there was a fridge there also to store the breast milk, until she was going home.

By Law, If you are a breast feeding mother, the company you are working for is required to look after your needs.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/after-your-baby-is-born/breastfeeding/?searchterm=breastfeeding
Breastfeeding and employment

Under Section 9 of the Maternity Protection (Amendment) Act 2004 certain women in employment who are breastfeeding are entitled to take time off work each day in order to breastfeed. The provision applies to all women in employment who have given birth within the previous 6 months. Employers are not obliged to provide facilities in the workplace to facilitate breastfeeding if the provision of such facilities would give rise to considerable costs. At the choice of her employer, the woman may therefore opt to:

• Breastfeed in the workplace or express breast milk, where facilities are provided in the workplace by the employer
• Have their working hours reduced (without loss of pay) to facilitate breastfeeding where facilities are not made available.

Women who are in employment and are breastfeeding are entitled to take 1 hour (with pay) off work each day as a breastfeeding break. This time may be taken as;

• One 60 minute break
• Two 30 minute breaks
• Three 20 minute breaks

You should note, that breaks may be longer and more frequent if agreed between the woman and her employer. Part-time workers are also entitled to breastfeeding breaks, calculated on a pro-rata basis.
The provision for women to breastfeed at work was brought into effect on the 18th October, 2004 through SI 654 of 2004 Maternity Protection (Protection of Mothers who are Breastfeeding) Regulations 2004 (pdf).
The Health Promotion Unit have produced the following useful guide for employers, employees and co-workers entitled Combining Breastfeeding and Work (pdf).
Rules

Women that wish to exercise their rights to breastfeed in employment, must notify their employer (in writing) of their intention to breastfeed at work. You must confirm this information at least 4 weeks before the date you intend to return to employment from maternity leave.
Employers can require the employee to supply the child’s birth certificate (or some other document confirming the child’s date of birth).
If you find breastfeeding difficult, there are many people who can help and reassure you:

• At the hospital or at home. The midwife will have had much experience with breastfeeding mothers and will be able to help you get started. Some are "lactation consultants" and have specific training in breastfeeding support. In addition, most hospitals run a weekly drop-in breastfeeding clinic.
• At the local health centre. Breastfeeding support groups are run by the public health nurse. Meetings take place weekly, where you and other mothers can meet the nurse to discuss any problems you might have and to seek her advice.
• Breastfeeding counsellors. Cuidiu - The Irish Childbirth Trust has a list of trained breastfeeding counsellors who will answer any queries you might have. They are available all over the country. Contact Cuidiu for the name of your nearest counsellor. In addition, the La Leche League is a voluntary group which provides information and support to women who want to breastfeed their babies. Their services include telephone counselling, monthly group meetings and a referral service to GPs and Public Health Nurses. A list of La Leche League counsellors is provided in the telephone book under "La Leche League" - telephone the counsellor nearest you.
• Breastfeeding support groups. Both Cuidiu and La Leche League organise breastfeeding support groups. Contact them for the number of your nearest group. Information on La Leche groups in your area is available here.

Its the best gift you can give your child and the most natural thing in the world, Try and stick with it if you can,

killwill

Hi everyone, just an update on how things are going. I was off for a week for Christmas so my partner expressed two bottles a day and after two days the baby was back on the bottle. We are now adding a bit of Aptimal to the bottle, about 1 ounce Aptimal for very 2 of breastmilk and she is doing fine with it. Tried her last night on just the Aptimal and she would not take it, so we are just going to take our time and gradually add a bit more formula bit by bit. Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

embee

killwill wrote: »

Hi everyone, just an update on how things are going. I was off for a week for Christmas so my partner expressed two bottles a day and after two days the baby was back on the bottle. We are now adding a bit of Aptimal to the bottle, about 1 ounce Aptimal for very 2 of breastmilk and she is doing fine with it. Tried her last night on just the Aptimal and she would not take it, so we are just going to take our time and gradually add a bit more formula bit by bit. Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

Hi killwill,

Great to hear from you again and I'm glad to hear that she is starting to take the mixed breast and formula milk. She sounds like a feisty little one