Incident on the North Quays this morning

Treade

I was cycling down the North Quays this morning. Ahead of me I see a Bus Eireann bus indicating to let passengers off at the bus stop at the Four Courts.

The bus is moving very slowly and a cyclist (male in his 30's) on an orange coloured mountain bike starts to move up along the inside of the bus. The bus driver hasn't seen him and moves closer to the kerb. The cyclist is close to the back wheel of the bus. The cyclist starts banging on the side of the bus to warn the driver that he is running out of room. The bus moves forward and pulls in at the kerb while the cyclists pulls out from the back of the bus and starts to over take the bus on the outside. I can see thet cyclist is annoyed. As he passes the front of the bus he takes his U-Lock which is hanging from his handlebars and proceeds to give the wind screen of the bus and almighty whack with his U-Lock. As far as I could see he didn't manage to damage the windscreen of the bus. The bus driver goes mental and keeps beeping his horn but the guards at the junction don't see what has happened. I follow the cyclist down the quays on my own bike but don't bother saying anything to him.
What do you think?

niceonetom

i'd say he was well out of order. and guys like him get us all a reputation as psychos. yep the quays are tricky, but if you get stuck inside a bus as it comes to a stop you've fúcked up, not the bus. and swinging ulocks around is poor behaviour, even in the times we live in.

flickerx

niceonetom wrote: »

i'd say he was well out of order. and guys like him get us all a reputation as psychos. yep the quays are tricky, but if you get stuck inside a bus as it comes to a stop you've fúcked up, not the bus. and swinging ulocks around is poor behaviour, even in the times we live in.

My head agrees with you, but my heart screams BIG UP THE CYCLIST

Bicyclegadabout

I thought rule number 1 of cycling is not to go on the inside of a large turning vehicle??

You're better off not having said anything to him, he was clearly having a moment of mentalness. You could have told the guards but I dunno what they could've done.

markpb

Very scary for the cyclist but an all to often occurence.

Bicyclegadabout wrote: »

I thought rule number 1 of cycling is not to go on the inside of a large turning vehicle??

The bus wasn't turning and probably wasn't indicating in when he started undertaking. In general though undertaking should be avoided which rules out that so called cycle lane on O'Connell St.

Ghost Rider

Not necessarily - cyclists can easily get trapped when buses pull over to stop. It's happened to me several times. (Of course, slapping windshields with U-locks is pure mental.)

niceonetom wrote: »

if you get stuck inside a bus as it comes to a stop you've fúcked up, not the bus.

kmick

Any decent cyclist knows buses pull in frequently and when they do you just go outside. I have seen guys pull inside a bus thats stopping and banging on the side of the bus and inevitably they are in the wrong (even though its an unwritten rule). Cyclists are getting ever more aggresive and its not pretty. Courier nearly attacked me the other day when I pointed out he was on the wrong side of the road and I had to move out to avoid him.

trellheim

Depends... as with anything.

If the bus was indicating to pull in the cyclist was a bit silly to try up the inside

bus wins most times IMHO some we win, some they win but the bus driver only need to mess it up once and poof !

Give all cars and rigs/buses plenty of space and assume NOTHING it only takes 1 moron.

The peculiar thing is the law may be on the cyclist's side because if that's a continuous white line on the right [ can't remember if it is or not ] he's breaking the law unless the bus is actually stopped by pulling into the flow of traffic.

petethedrummer

It's the first time you see something like this you don't say anything, because you haven't weighed it all up in your mind. I bet next time you see something similar you will have a word.

As an equal parts driver and cyclist. I can say that no one group of road users has a monopoly on stupidity. There are cyclists taking far too many risks in the city centre. Or getting into situations with cars/buses where they think they are in the right and risk getting in an accident for the sake of the moral high ground (as this guy seems to have done).

There are car drivers turning and not checking mirrors, cyclists weaving in and out of traffic and pedestrians not checking for bikes as they cross in traffic. I'm sure most of us have been guilty of these things at one time or another. So if you think a driver is about to do something stupid, better to avoid it and get home alive rather than win a petty argument.

I tend to acknowledge considerate drivers when I am cycling rather than berate the stoopid ones.

Tomas_V

Treade wrote: »

I was cycling down the North Quays this morning. Ahead of me I see a Bus Eireann bus indicating to let passengers off at the bus stop at the Four Courts.

I always find that narratives like these begin too late into the development of the incident.

Did the bus first overtake the cyclist? If so, he should not have done so as it's quite clear that he failed, as required by law, to ensure that his overtaking did not cause inconvenience or danger to another.

There is a cycle track there, I think it was officially 'opened' by Sean Kelly, since then the City Council has failed to properly maintain the road markings. Given that it's within sight of the City Council HQ and the High Court, you'd think they'd know better.

That said, the cyclist's subsequent actions are embarrassing.

unionman

I don't know if it's the Christmas traffic or what, maybe just a matter of volume, but a lot of motorists (and pedestrians) are getting a bit mental on the road. From the sound of the OP's story, I guess some cyclists are too. His reaction didn't help him, but better I think, that OP said nothing. Have been caught by the bus pulling in myself, and the only way to avoid it is exercise caution and hold back, unless it's 'mid-flow' traffic and there isn't a bus stop ahead.

This morning I had a white van pull out to change lanes, no indicator, nothing, at the lights just before where the incident above took place. In frustration, I gave a mild open handed slap to the bonnet. I do this from time to time and then think better of it, as you really don't know how a driver might react.

Just prior to this a taxi pulled in front of me to pick up a fare, crossing the continuous white line on the bike lane to do so. Mind you, can't see he could have avoided that, but it is frustrating.

Last night coming home on Nth King Street, cars are bumper to bumper and I am going at a moderate speed down the cycle lane (always filthy with debris and glass that one). A pedestrian steps out on front of me without looking, too close for me to effect a dead stop, so as I broke I yelled 'whoah' (an involuntary sound I confess), and swerved around as she stepped back. As I passed her she began to rant at me. I kept going, no point in having a row, I was just glad I hadn't collided with her.

I've strayed off the point a bit, but I suppose my point is the tension is building, so best for all of us to stay alert, keep a cool head, and get to wherever we are going in one piece.

Safe home everyone.

niceonetom

unionman wrote: »

I don't know if it's the Christmas traffic or what, maybe just a matter of volume, but a lot of motorists (and pedestrians) are getting a bit mental on the road. From the sound of the OP's story, I guess some cyclists are too. His reaction didn't help him, but better I think, that OP said nothing. Have been caught by the bus pulling in myself, and the only way to avoid it is exercise caution and hold back, unless it's 'mid-flow' traffic and there isn't a bus stop ahead.

This morning I had a white van pull out to change lanes, no indicator, nothing, at the lights just before where the incident above took place. In frustration, I gave a mild open handed slap to the bonnet. I do this from time to time and then think better of it, as you really don't know how a driver might react.

Just prior to this a taxi pulled in front of me to pick up a fare, crossing the continuous white line on the bike lane to do so. Mind you, can't see he could have avoided that, but it is frustrating.

Last night coming home on Nth King Street, cars are bumper to bumper and I am going at a moderate speed down the cycle lane (always filthy with debris and glass that one). A pedestrian steps out on front of me without looking, too close for me to effect a dead stop, so as I broke I yelled 'whoah' (an involuntary sound I confess), and swerved around as she stepped back. As I passed her she began to rant at me. I kept going, no point in having a row, I was just glad I hadn't collided with her.

I've strayed off the point a bit, but I suppose my point is the tension is building, so best for all of us to stay alert, keep a cool head, and get to wherever we are going in one piece.

Safe home everyone.

dead right. it's a goddamn zoo out there at the moment. i'm trying to develop the habit of wearing a helmet for the first time this winter. good luck out there everyone .

Ghost Rider

Winter is definitely the best time to try and get into the helmet habit, if only because the damn things do help keep your head warm.

niceonetom wrote: »

dead right. it's a goddamn zoo out there at the moment. i'm trying to develop the habit of wearing a helmet for the first time this winter. good luck out there everyone .

oobydooby

Ghost Rider wrote: »

Winter is definitely the best time to try and get into the helmet habit, if only because the damn things do help keep your head warm.

Afraid I've gone the other way, stopped wearing my helmet for the winter because my head was too cold. Wear a wooly hat now. Can't fit the helmet over the wooly hat.

Hard to comment on the incident. Would be interesting to hear the cyclist's story - did he just lose it? Bad day? Fed up with similar incidents? Certainly the cycle track needs to be examined. Perhaps the track should weave around bus stops to discourage this from happening. Glad he didn't damage the windscreen of the bus.

kona

eejit tbh!! im all for gettin physical but not if your plain dumb, never ever pass a bus on the inside!!

rubadub

Worst thing bus drivers can do is leave people off directly onto a cycletrack where there is no actual bus-stop. People are idiots to step off but can be forgiven for not knowing there is no bus stop, it is illegal for a driver to do that anyways.

But never pass anything on the inside, and work on the presumption that all drivers are ignorant homocidal pricks who caught their wife being rode rotten by a gang of cyclists the night before, and she loving it.

Raam

oobydooby wrote: »

Afraid I've gone the other way, stopped wearing my helmet for the winter because my head was too cold. Wear a wooly hat now. Can't fit the helmet over the wooly hat.

I'm going off topic, but for what it's worth, this fits perfect under helmets and is very warm.

Raam

There is one road, Lombard Street I believe, leading up from the keys towards Westland Row (my favourite road) which is a bit dodgy. The cycle lane goes around the outside of some parked cars, then swings a bit left and goes on the inside of the left hand turning lane. Now obviously it is suicide to try to go straight on up the inside of a car lane designated as a left turn, but this is where cyclists are "sent". I always avoid the track at that point and head in the proper "straight on" lane, but I've seen some close calls there. Cycle lanes in the city can be bad news. I think it's at the junction for Lower Sandwith Street.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.345031,-6.248174&spn=0.002831,0.007296&t=h&z=17&om=1

oobydooby

Raam wrote: »

I'm going off topic, but for what it's worth, this fits perfect under helmets and is very warm.

Thanks Raam, will forward that link to all my siblings in advance of the festive season

Ghost Rider

You can find equivalent skull caps on eBay made by Nike for less than 15 brick, including postage. They are really effective at keeping your head warm and fit nicely under a helmet.

Raam wrote: »

I'm going off topic, but for what it's worth, this fits perfect under helmets and is very warm.

Tomas_V

trellheim wrote: »

The peculiar thing is the law may be on the cyclist's side because if that's a continuous white line on the right [ can't remember if it is or not ]

I passed that way today. It's not a proper cycle track. The City Council marked the right-hand edge with a broken white line, whereas, to be comply with the law, an on-road cycle track must have a continuous white line to the right.

For good measure, they used quick-fade paint.

Hopefully 'U-lock' man has calmed down by now.

claiva

I have to say that U Lock man was wrong to do what he did but I completely understand his frustrations.
Especially with the bus drivers - generally ignoramouses
Pedestrians are doing my nuts in at the moment though.....why won't they look before the step out into the road ?????
Is it un-fashionable now or summit ?
I've nearly succummbed to crashing into one just to get the moral high ground....stupid but true.
Hopefully I can make it home tonight in one piece !!!:o

DeepBlue

claiva wrote: »

Pedestrians are doing my nuts in at the moment though.....why won't they look before the step out into the road ?????

They don't look for cars so why would they look for bikes?

Btw and just for interest - does anyone carry a bike bell and does it make any difference (i.e. do pedestrians take note)?

trellheim

tomas - afair an onroad cycle track is

"14. (1) A cycle track shall be indicated by traffic sign number RUS 009 or RUS 009A provided in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) or RRM023 (broken white line) which latter signs may be marked on the right-hand edge of the cycle track or on the right-hand and left-hand edges of the cycle track.

I'm using http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1197385674&amp;view=ag-view&amp;docrank=4&amp;numhitsfound=55&amp;query_rule=(($query1)<=YEAR<=($query2)) AND (($query3)):legtitle AND (($query4)):number AND (($query5)):sectionno AND (($query0))&amp;query0='cycle track'&amp;docid=22948&amp;docdb=SIs&amp;dbname=SIs&amp;sorting=none&amp;operator=and&amp;TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&amp;setCookie=1

... am I wrong ?

Tomas_V

Yep, you're right.

A friiend showed me the older regs. RRM023 was a continuous white line only for use only on footways. The newer reg changes the meaning completely. Now it's a broken white line which can be used to make cycletracks which cars can use.

You'd be hard-pressed to see the road markings there today. Practically invisible.

Podge_irl

claiva wrote: »

Especially with the bus drivers - generally ignoramouses

I find most Dublin Bus drivers to be quite considerate towards cyclists.

here is one road, Lombard Street I believe, leading up from the keys towards Westland Row (my favourite road) which is a bit dodgy. The cycle lane goes around the outside of some parked cars, then swings a bit left and goes on the inside of the left hand turning lane. Now obviously it is suicide to try to go straight on up the inside of a car lane designated as a left turn, but this is where cyclists are "sent". I always avoid the track at that point and head in the proper "straight on" lane, but I've seen some close calls there.

That cycle lane is thoroughly stupid. Thankfully there is often a straight-ahead filter after the red so moving off from the cycle lane isn't as bad as it could be. I still don't bother using it though.

coggs

:eek: what did he think was going to happen ? i ride to work each day and see countless near misses , that was just plain stupid . if i was driving my car and a guy did that with a bike lock !!! i'd kill him............

Tomas_V

coggs wrote: »

:eek: what did he think was going to happen ? i ride to work each day and see countless near misses , that was just plain stupid . if i was driving my car and a guy did that with a bike lock !!! i'd kill him............

We still don't know if he was overtaken by the bus first. Something must have lit his fuse.

Raam

DeepBlue wrote: »

They don't look for cars so why would they look for bikes?

Btw and just for interest - does anyone carry a bike bell and does it make any difference (i.e. do pedestrians take note)?

A bell won't stop any one stepping out in front of you in the first place. Once they do, you can just shout at 'em which will have the same effect as ringing a bell. I suppose you could always ring your bell in anticipation, but you can't just go around shouting in anticipation, otherwise you'd be what they call "a nutter".

niceonetom

Raam wrote: »

...you can't just go around shouting in anticipation, otherwise you'd be what they call "a nutter".

this is important to remember. my bike is very quiet so pedestrians never hear me coming, hence a lot of wandering lane invaders. i think some sort of Everything's OK Alarm could be devised be devised.

oobydooby

coggs wrote: »

:eek: what did he think was going to happen ? i ride to work each day and see countless near misses , that was just plain stupid . if i was driving my car and a guy did that with a bike lock !!! i'd kill him............

I hope that's just a figure of speech.

DeepBlue wrote: »

They don't look for cars so why would they look for bikes?

Btw and just for interest - does anyone carry a bike bell and does it make any difference (i.e. do pedestrians take note)?

I don't carry one (sorry!) but I have one on my commuting bike and it's very useful. Pedestrians do react to the bell, kind of sounds like the luas. The ipodestrians of course are another kettle of clichés... but they tend to be on cycle tracks and I can stop or avoid them easily.

A bell is no use if a left-turning vehicle overtakes you. You need a bazooka or something.

Tomas_V

trellheim wrote: »

tomas - afair an onroad cycle track is

"14. (1) A cycle track shall be indicated by traffic sign number RUS 009 or RUS 009A provided in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) or RRM023 (broken white line) which latter signs may be marked on the right-hand edge of the cycle track or on the right-hand and left-hand edges of the cycle track.

I passed that way again. There is a RUS009a and then some badly faded RRM023 which has been erased in places by a tarmac job. AFAIK, contractors are supposed to restore road markings?

Karma

niceonetom wrote: »

this is important to remember. my bike is very quiet so pedestrians never hear me coming, hence a lot of wandering lane invaders. i think some sort of Everything's OK Alarm could be devised be devised.

I like that bit "wandering lane invaders". still hate them, try a bike airhorn 100db, from point blank range jump like they died(or were about to). try from a distance and they ignore you.

as someone mentioned, all road user type have the good the bad and the other. i change from talking, being nice to shouting(last one was a unmarked garda car-indicators MATE!)

peace and ride safe