Why use public transport !!

Davidth88

On Friday my wife went to a Christmas lunch party, being a good citizen , and also because she fancied a drink she went by public transport.

Well..... coming home she got a lift to Palmerstown , got there around 20:00. Guess what , no but to either Celbridge or Lucan arrived for 1 hr.

She finally got home frozen to the bone.

But a question HOW can you encourage people to use the bus when there just are not the buses running .

Celbridge and Lucan I imagine have about 40k people living in them ( between them ), for no bus to be going to either of these centres of population for an hour , just off the on-peak time , is a disgrace.



Rant over

dodgyme

I have always said it - If you use public transport in ireland you are treated like a second class citizen.

This attitiude is changing amoungst the public but not the providers??

Heart

Perhaps now the question can be asked as to why Circle Line was allowed to drop its evening and weekend services, but it is still allowed to object to any movements Dublin Bus try to make along that corridor???

H

loyatemu

i believe Fatima Mansions (paraphrasing Maggie Thatcher) explained it best:

"Only losers take the bus"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLvOI6zfsc

godtabh

Davidth88 wrote: »

Well..... coming home she got a lift to Palmerstown , got there around 20:00. Guess what , no but to either Celbridge or Lucan arrived for 1 hr.

No bus went to Lucan for an hour? I find that hard to believe. With all the routes that serve Lucan 25,25A,66,66a,66b,67,67a and not one of them came along? Doubt it very much!

bazzer

No disrespect to your wife, David, but to give you an example of some people's strange habits - they wait ages specifically for a 25A to Liffey Valley and will, for some reason, let other less-crowded routes fly by even though they all serve the same spot!

Which bus was your wife waiting for? Whereabouts do you live?

trellheim

Well.. people who get the bus infrequently may only know 1 route number.

Those going to Rathmines might wait ages for a 15 and not get on a 65

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote: »

No bus went to Lucan for an hour? I find that hard to believe. With all the routes that serve Lucan 25,25A,66,66a,66b,67,67a and not one of them came along? Doubt it very much!

Well there you go David. Despite your wife waiting in the cold, it seems you, and her are both totally wrong. :rolleyes:

I hope she's going to apologize to us. :rolleyes:

Davidth88

Hi,

Basically 2 buses to Lucan superquinn ( the one that goes around the houses ) went past , she was prepared to take any bus to Lucan village and get a cab , her final dest is Celbridge. ( she wanted the village so she could go to the cab office )

Believe me she wasn't wrong , she knows the buses pretty well. She told me a 67 went past 1 min after she got to the stop , but didn't stop even though she waved her arms ( perhaps it was full ? ) .

She ended up on one of the CL buses .

All I know is I had one very cold/angry wife on Friday night and it took the shine off her afternoon out.

I know about the business with Mortons/CL and DB , perhaps one of those stupid civil servants who decide this policy would like to stand for nearly an hour in the freezing cold and explain their stupid policy , while debating their outragous ' benchmarking ' pay rises, along with their pensions, and jobs for life grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Stark

Given what kearnsr said about all the buses that serve that route, it sounds like an isolated thing even by crappy Irish standards. Probably boils down to there being some issue, road blocked, buses rerouted etc. and people waiting at the bus stops along the diverted route not being notified. Used to happen to me all the time in Cork when city centre works were in full swing. I'd wait for about 30 mins at a stop, and eventually a passer-by would let me know that the stop was no longer in service and where the new stop was. No notice posted on the bus shelter of course.

The sooner they get RTPI in and people can see in advance if there's a problem that will cause them to wait for an hour, the better. That's the biggest benefit of the LUAS I think: if there's a problem on the line, you know about it immediately and can make alternative arrangements.

Davidth88 wrote:

She told me a 67 went past 1 min after she got to the stop , but didn't stop even though she waved her arms ( perhaps it was full ? ) .

Going by what bus drivers posting here before have said, he was probably trying to save time by not picking up passengers.

dogmatix

There does appear to an attitude - in DublinBus at least, of secretly removing numbers of buses of the timetables outside of peak hours without telling anyone or noting it on their timetables (I believe some wag once referred to the dublin bus timetables as the greatest work of fiction ever printed in Dublin).

The old 48A was notorious for this and i've noticed the still new 151 service gets drastically unreliable after 18:50.

dodgyme

Like one night I was going into town from D15. The bus is approx 1 per hr. I was waiting 50 mins and a bus arrives with 'out of services' on it. Everybody else at the bus stop had got taxis. The bus stopped to let someone off so I got on since it was packed and obviously not out of service. I asked the driver where the 6:15 was and he said that was him. I said why the out of service on the bus, he said he was mad late and leaving us to the village (ie. blanch). He then didnt go thru the shoppin centre and dropped everyone in blanch village. I had to get a taxi from there I was so late at that stage. :mad:

WexCan

dogmatix wrote: »

(I believe some wag once referred to the dublin bus timetables as the greatest work of fiction ever printed in Dublin)

Very true!

I just wish they'd change them so they show the time the bus is actually meant to arrive at the stop.

Stark

WexCan wrote: »

I just wish they'd change them so they show the time the bus is actually meant to arrive at the stop.

You just can't predict that with Dublin traffic. Could be 10:20 one day, then the next day it's raining, someone ran out of petrol on the M50 causing feeder routes to get backed up, the Lord Mayor gives the schools a half day and the bus ends up coming at 10:50. Countries that do have estimates for each stop generally have bus routes that are segregated from the main traffic routes.

WexCan

My local bus company here in the UK give estimates for each stop (not always on time but usually quite close), and they don't even have bus lanes

OTK

why use public transport?
because you
a) are too drunk to drive and can't afford the taxi fare
b) are too poor to own a car
d) don't want to pay for parking in town
e) because the journey you need to makes is slower by car
f) for environmental reasons

Every now and then I hear someone who never uses public transport commenting on how they tried it once and how awful it was. You're right, public transport is generally dire in Ireland - so why are we spending twice as much on roads as we are on public transport next year?

OTK

OTK wrote: »

so why are we spending twice as much on roads as we are on public transport next year?

Because even when there is public transport available it's just not worth the hassle using it.

I got Bus Eireann from Letterkenny to Galway yesterday which took almost five hours. It takes me just under three hours to drive it in a car.

The bus stopped in every backwater and even along the road with few houses around for miles (beside Finner Camp in outside Bundoran)

In my opinion this route should just service major population areas i.e Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Knock airport.

For that reason I'd much rather see the money spent on roads bypassing towns and villages.

2qk4u

She should have got a Taxi. Home in no time and warm too...

Stark

Essentially another form of private transport.

meanmachine3

dodgyme wrote: »

Like one night I was going into town from D15. The bus is approx 1 per hr. I was waiting 50 mins and a bus arrives with 'out of services' on it. Everybody else at the bus stop had got taxis. The bus stopped to let someone off so I got on since it was packed and obviously not out of service. I asked the driver where the 6:15 was and he said that was him. I said why the out of service on the bus, he said he was mad late and leaving us to the village (ie. blanch). He then didnt go thru the shoppin centre and dropped everyone in blanch village. I had to get a taxi from there I was so late at that stage. :mad:

i'm really confused here :rolleyes:
you were getting a bus that only comes once an hour going to the city from D15 and were waiting 50mins so therefore the time difference was 1hr 50mins and you say everyone else waiting at your stop got a taxi, yet you got on a packed out of service bus.i think your living up to the first part of your name here dodgy.
there are only 2 routes that go through the S.C. FROM D.15 to the city and on that hourly route there are only a hand full of buses that actually service the S.C.
but if you are sincere :rolleyes: i'd be grateful if you could mention the number of the route and the day in question i'd gladly check it out .

i once had a guy ask me what time i left at ,i told him and he said he was waiting at that stop 30 mins for a bus.i said thats odd because the bus in front of me went 10 mins earlier than i did and that i actually saw that bus leave with it's numbers up and in service.in the end the guy shuffled down the isle with his tail between his legs because he knew he was caught out.
the moral of the story is if somene says they're waiting 30,40,60 mins for a bus it's more like 10-15

_Kaiser_

WexCan wrote: »

My local bus company here in the UK give estimates for each stop (not always on time but usually quite close), and they don't even have bus lanes

They were doing that in Holland too in the mid-80s. It's now 2007 and Dublin Bus still can't do even that much. :rolleyes:

Why do people use public transport? Because they've no other choice (for the reasons OTK mentioned - except E and F.. I'd dispute that anyone would consciously make a decision to take a dirty, cold/wet, unreliable, scumbag-ridden bus over a car any day).

Put it this way.. I'd rather sit in traffic in my warm, comfortable car than on a bus (which will probably caught in the same traffic anyway). If I've to go anywhere outside Dublin I'll definitely take the car (for the reasons salonfire lists).

Stark

meanmachine3 wrote: »

...

"All our customers are liars". Great attitude there.

WexCan

Stark wrote: »

"All our customers are liars". Great attitude there.

You ever try talking to the lovely people in Head Office? Exactly the same attitude.

_Kaiser_

meanmachine3 wrote:

the moral of the story is if somene says they're waiting 30,40,60 mins for a bus it's more like 10-15

I beg to differ. I once waited on an inbound 39 for over 40 minutes (around 6:30pm) while 14 - I counted and took fleet/reg numbers - went by in the opposite direction.

I then rang the depot in Phibsboro only to get the usual "the controller is out on the road" line, and some rubbish about "maybe those drivers were on their last run". Even IF that were true, that's not (supposed to be) my problem if I'm waiting on a bus that should have been running to a frequency of every 7 minutes.

I suppose though I'm making that up too, right? :rolleyes: Thank god I have a car these days - life's too short to be dealing with the all-too-many jobsworths in Dublin Bus/CIE

ucdperson

I waited from 6pm to 6:30pm last Friday for a number 10 departing Belfield, when there should have been 3 departures, 1801, 1810, 1820. It is all fine to say that buses were delayed in traffic, but if that was the case I should have seen the 1754, as I arrived at the stop a few minutes before 1800. When I did go out to the 46a stop there were 60 people there and 46As were not stopping, while other out of service buses went by without collecting anyone. This is going into the city at a time when most people are travelling out on a bus corridor that probably has one of the best services in the city. God help everyone else, because Dublin Bus has no interest.

AlekSmart

QUOTE Salonfire :

"The bus stopped in every backwater and even along the road with few houses around for miles (beside Finner Camp in outside Bundoran)" END

I happen to agree that far more Bus Eireann services should be adhering to the Expressway concept of old.

However the question could be asked,WHY did the coach stop at these locations ?
Was it to drop or pickup a passenger,if twas then that is justification enough in many eyes..? :rolleyes:

If a by-pass is opened on an Express route then that route should IMMEDIATELY utilize it (A La Translink)
However since Bus Eireann operate under a truly byzantine relationship with the Dept of Transport and every local councillor worth a packet of salt,the benefits of these expensively provided pieces of infrastructure are constantly denied long distance commuters in favour of facilitating the "To The Garden gate" merchants.

Any suggestion from Bus Eireann to make a route faster and more reliable by operating a more direct route alignment will be immediately met with stern resistance,which usually results in The Kavanagh Clan or indeed any private operator yet again being able to reap the benefits of Fast-Direct service alignments !!

Its simply another example of how mismanagement and poor planning is endemic in Irish culture.
We currently see Irish Rail spending Billions to improve Dublin Commuter Rail services,yet the very towns from where these services originate are now virtually Gridlocked anyway.
Our lack of planning stretches to improving every aspect of travel except the Local Public Transport networks to and from the commuter stations which encourages yet more private car usage in and around these once quaint little towns.....Not any longer they ain`t quaint !! :eek:

Stark

Unfortunately Aircoach also stop in every backwater location. The M7 is barely used in favour of going through places like Monasterevin where I've never seen anyone get on or off. They're still better than Bus Éireann with their "Hold on there folks, I have to wait for someone here" though. At least there's the train...

steveland?

kearnsr wrote: »

No bus went to Lucan for an hour? I find that hard to believe. With all the routes that serve Lucan 25,25A,66,66a,66b,67,67a and not one of them came along? Doubt it very much!

Yeh that's a lot of busses but I've often been standing at the bus stop in Glasnevin waiting to go to DCU for over 30 minutes when there's supposed to be the 4, 4A, 13 and 19A serving DCU from that stop. I haven't checked how frequently they should come but I would imagine one of those four busses should come every few minutes (maybe 10 minutes max). Funnily enough I usually see twice as much (NOT an exaggeration) busses going past "Out Of Service" than I do any of the busses that serve me or the other busses on that route.

I'd imagine it's not inconceivable that that many busses could be scheduled to serve Lucan and none of them would come for an hour at peak times.

I have a car but don't drive to college as there's no parking and I walk if it's not freezing or pissing rain. Often times I'd have walked to college by the time I got a bus.

I'm only in college 3 days a week and it's gotten to the point where I don't go in to study the other two days, I stay at home and work at my desk, because it's so much hassle getting the mile or so distance if the weather's sh!te

corktina

WexCan wrote: »

My local bus company here in the UK give estimates for each stop (not always on time but usually quite close), and they don't even have bus lanes

ive just been home to the UK for the weekend and the local municipal buses have electronic displays on nearly every bus stop which tell you when the next two buses on each route are expected.....they are spot on too so must be centrally controlled....oh and the buses are colour coded so you can see yours coming a mile off...our route being bright green....

dodgyme

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i'm really confused here :rolleyes:
you were getting a bus that only comes once an hour going to the city from D15 and were waiting 50mins so therefore the time difference was 1hr 50mins and you say everyone else waiting at your stop got a taxi, yet you got on a packed out of service bus.i think your living up to the first part of your name here dodgy.
there are only 2 routes that go through the S.C. FROM D.15 to the city and on that hourly route there are only a hand full of buses that actually service the S.C.
but if you are sincere :rolleyes: i'd be grateful if you could mention the number of the route and the day in question i'd gladly check it out .

i once had a guy ask me what time i left at ,i told him and he said he was waiting at that stop 30 mins for a bus.i said thats odd because the bus in front of me went 10 mins earlier than i did and that i actually saw that bus leave with it's numbers up and in service.in the end the guy shuffled down the isle with his tail between his legs because he knew he was caught out.
the moral of the story is if somene says they're waiting 30,40,60 mins for a bus it's more like 10-15

So I am lying then. Thats why I bothered posting here to propagate my lies.????
The bus route was the 70 and the reason I took it is because the 39 takes forever and the 38 is a joke where when 2 buses are at past due and only one turns up and the another one is flying down the N3 empty. Secondly 3 buses go thru the centre from D15 (the 270) also so you may need to check. Also the reason I took the 70 was that is was less of a roundabout route then the others. However about a week previous to this the same thing happen where a bus was hadnt arrived for 40 mins (not 10 as you say - 40 mins, I can read the time, I can teach you if you want) and then one passed half full with "out of service". I rang the garage the next monday and was told it could have been hired. So why was the "on hire " sign not used - well because it was the 70 in disguise ofcourse. The garage told me they would ring back but didnt.

The date of the incident happened on the 9th Nov. The 70 was due at 5:10 (from dunboyne). The out of services (70 bus) which the driver told me he was the 70 ok? arrived thru clonee at 5:55. The driver told me he was droppin people to the village and didnt take any money. The bus would nt have stopped as on the previous occasion only for someone had to get off. So there is the details and you can chk it out. I will be waiting your reply.

dudara

When I lived in Cork, I used to take the No 5 regularly. There was one bus timetabled at 13.00 ish which regularly never showed up. (When it happend first, I thought that it was traffic or something, but it happened regularly over the years) Otherwise, the bus used to run perfectly. I suppose that the driver went for lunch or something.

When I was a student I used to get a country bus home every Friday (over 10 yeras ago now). My stop was at a roadside pub. The driver, now retired (and a genuinely nice guy, friend of the family), used to get off as well, go into the pub, drink a pint of Guinness that would be waiting for him on the counter, back onto the bus and finish his run. He only ever did it on Friday. How times have changed!

Delganys Finest

I live in Greystones,served by the 84 the 184 and the 84x.
The 184 is a complete joke,the timetable gives departure times only( I was gonna post a link here but their site is down for maintenance:rolleyes:)
Basically you get a departure time and then is says to allow aproximately 25 minutes for the service to reach Greystones and the another 25 to reach the terminus(either Newtown/Kilpedder or Bray Station).
Depending on the time of day/traffic etc this journey time can vary dramatically.I've often waited more than 20mins onto the alloted 25 and still seen no sign.
Given that there's no specific time the bus is meant to be in Greystones it's pretty mucha lottery as whether you can catch it or not.
I understand that the traffic in Bray anytime around rush hour is horrific but the fact that there isn't even a set time to catch the bus mid journey is not confidence inspiring.
And while I'm at it,the DART fare from Bray to Town is 2.35,why then does it cost 2euro just to go the one stop to Greystones?
waaaaaaaargh:mad:

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

However the question could be asked,WHY did the coach stop at these locations ?
Was it to drop or pickup a passenger,if twas then that is justification enough in many eyes..? :rolleyes:

When he arrived at a bus stop he waited until the departure time on the timetable before moving away again regardless if someone was there or not! In Donegal he waited for over 10 mins.

I know that it would be impossible for Bus Eireann to bypass these towns and it is for that reason that people in Donegal and Derry would rather drive. Or use the Feda O'Donnell service

dodgyme

salonfire wrote: »

use the Feda O'Donnell service

feda o donnell are great - I dont even think the bus actually stops to let you off, it kinda more of slows down so you can jump - great service, well it was when I used them back in the day.

bonkey

OTK wrote: »

why are we spending twice as much on roads as we are on public transport next year?

I would guess its a mix of factors:

1) Roads are more expensive than buses.
2) Irish roads, from an international perspective, are about as crap as Irish public transport.
3) Improvement to roads gives an improvement both to private and public transport.

As for the anecdotes...

People who take public transport regularly will always end up having horror stories.
People who don't take it regularly aren't good judges.

I live in Switzerland...and enjoy what is arguably the best public transport system in the world. Then again, I can pick a handful of horror-trips that I've had...no seating...the entire train system everywhere in the country ground to a halt...people chasing the dragon in the smoking carriage...whatever.

I also have a mate who visits from time to time. Over 15% of the time he gets a train in Switzerland, its late. Of course, I have other mates who have had 0% late.

Anyone can cherry-pick stories to make pretty-much any system to be as bad as they like. If it makes you feel better to rant like that....go for it.

salonfire wrote:

When he arrived at a bus stop he waited until the departure time on the timetable before moving away again regardless if someone was there or not! In Donegal he waited for over 10 mins.

Proper order too. There's nothing I hate worse in a public transport system than arriving early for a bus or train, only to find its already left because it was earlier.

If the sign says 15:24, then the bus should not pull out before 15:24:59. Its ironic that somenoe is complaining about punctuality on this thread.

jasonbourme.cs

Delganys Finest wrote: »

I live in Greystones,served by the 84 the 184 and the 84x.
The 184 is a complete joke,the timetable gives departure times only

Given that there's no specific time the bus is meant to be in Greystones it's pretty mucha lottery as whether you can catch it or not.

totally agree with you on this , i mean if they can provide a time that the 84 gets into greystones (that travels dublin to newcastle) then why cant they provide a time for a bus that travels a fraction of that distance

i spent 55 mins waiting for a bus the other day , even with allowing for the 25 mins travel time it was 30 mins late :mad:

there is no good reason to use the miserable public transport in this country
like you said its a JOKE !

Stark

bonkey wrote: »

Proper order too. There's nothing I hate worse in a public transport system than arriving early for a bus or train, only to find its already left because it was earlier.

If the sign says 15:24, then the bus should not pull out before 15:24:59. Its ironic that somenoe is complaining about punctuality on this thread.

I posted a thread here not so long ago asking about express services from Dublin to Cork. I think at peak times, they really should have both a service that stops in all the bogholes along the way and a scheduled express service for people who want to use the motorways/bypasses where available and not have to hang around in villages. (Sometimes they have an express service but it's a case of show up and hope you get lucky).

Those small towns need to be serviced, but I also think they shouldn't ignore the desires of the sizeable population of people who are travelling to cities/large towns like Cork, Galway, Donegal etc. If we had proper expressway services, then the bus would be a serious competitor to the train. At the moment I spend the extra money to not take the chance of spending half my weekend on the bus.

Stark

OTK wrote:

because you
a) are too drunk to drive and can't afford the taxi fare
b) are too poor to own a car
d) don't want to pay for parking in town
e) because the journey you need to makes is slower by car
f) for environmental reasons

g) Don't want the stress of driving in traffic.
h) Takes the same length of time as driving but you have a book/paper you want to read.

There are some routes in Dublin that are well run and which people gladly use instead of private transport. The 123 that goes through Fairview was an excellent service from what I remember. A friend of mine gets the 42 into the city centre from Portmarnock every day, despite owning a car and having parking provided by her workplace. She certainly has no fear of driving, she just prefers to sit back with a book in the mornings.

I currently use the bus myself if I'm heading to the city centre as I can't stand the stress of city centre parking and if the traffic gets really bad at any of the choke points in the city centre, then I can get off and walk. However, it's only by virtue of 3 routes passing by my stop that I find the service acceptable. Of those 3 routes, I've never seen a 13/13A pass by, even though it's scheduled at the same frequency as the other two. There has been the occasion where I've waited 40 mins, meaning a service reliability of less than 33% that evening. Not good.

astrofool

I used to get the bus every day, I don't have to anymore as I have a car and drive. It's great Petrol cost is less than the fare would be (given that I have to have a car).

However, I'll use the Luas any chance I get, but it doesn't serve the area (at the moment).

The most annoying thing about the bus service is the unknown's involved, it's impossible to know how long it will take to get to your destination as waiting time's are so random, my life is worth more than spending up to 80 minutes a day doing nothing at a bus stop.

loyatemu

I use the Dart every day and the Luas fairly regularly but any time I'm forced to use a bus I'm invariably disappointed. Even on high-frequency routes like the stillorgan road or ballsbridge I seem to always end up waiting a lot longer than expected.

The main problem with using the bus is the total lack of information - whatever it says on the timetable, you've no way of knowing if your bus left the terminus on time, or even if it left at all. There always the fear that you're waiting for a bus that may never come. Real-time information is the biggest improvement they could make to the bus network in Dublin.

WexCan

loyatemu wrote: »

Real-time information is the biggest improvement they could make to the bus network in Dublin.

Agree 100%. They've already got the technology so it's a matter of pulling the finger out, getting some money and installing it. As if it will happen in the next 5 years though.

ardmacha

Given the availability of technology there should not only be realtime info at the stops but information on the performance of all licenced routes should be collated and published by the regulator. These discussions on Boards would be more definitive it is could be shown that buses were typically late on route X at certain times or whatever. Such stats would also expose the Dublin bus habit of simply not running a bus.

WexCan

ardmacha wrote: »

...information on the performance of all licenced routes should be collated and published by the regulator. These discussions on Boards would be more definitive it is could be shown that buses were typically late on route X at certain times or whatever. Such stats would also expose the Dublin bus habit of simply not running a bus.

+1

Heard something about most of the buses having GPS tracking units installed already? They probably have data for a lot of routes.

trellheim

I think spareman and KC61 may be along to tell the truth about these claims...

meanmachine3

firstly about that man with his tail between his legs.
in normal crcumstances i would be cursing the driver for leaving early but when i knew for 100% that he was not waiting 30 mins that annoyed me.

dodgy you said you asked the driver where the 6.15 was. now your saying it was the 5.10.also if you read back, i said there are only 2 routes that go through the S.C. that go to the city. i am still correct in what i say here.

i cant check back to the 9th nov but i will check to see if there is a problem with the 5.10pm from dunboyne. as regards the 70 going to the S.C. they only go through there in the evening after 7pm i think.i am well aware of the 270 as well as the other local imps.
i'll pm you when i have an answer/update ?
Regarding the 39 route that is a sight seeing bus because it goes all over the place.i know of a few drivers on this route and what they tell me is that they only have about 1hr and 15 mins the get from town at peak times to ongar and vise versa in the mornings. this is most unrealistic.In real times what you are looking at is about 2 hours or close to it to get to ongar from town or vise versa.
If i may point out as well it's going to get a hell of alot worse with the run up the christmas.i've been told it can take up to 2 hours from the time they enter the S.C. to the time the come out at christmas.
i'm not here for a spat with anyone. but i will call a spade a spade.
drivers on most routes in the city are not given near enough time to get to their destination thats why you have alot of empty buses.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

markf909

Given the availability of technology there should not only be realtime info at the stops but information on the performance of all licenced routes should be collated and published by the regulator an anonymous civil servant who knows nothing about public transport

Fixed that for you

ardmacha

It would suffice to have an anonymous civil servant who knows something about statistics, comprehensive data is the first step towards discussion by people who do know about transport.

AlekSmart

Statistics and Comprehensive Data is a commodity which IS available in vast quantities from all the main players in the Public Transport debate here.

The Department of Transport is one VAST repository of such stuff,computer printouts by the Km,Origin and Destination figures by the Tonne in fact there is little of Dublins Bus Scene that is NOT fully covered by Stat`s and Figures.

These figures are kept fully up to date by a phalanx of civil servants and the occasional consultant brought in to put a particular slant on any piece of potential troublesome data.

However,the question which this thread is leaning towards asking is.......what is being done on foot of all these Information Gathering exercises.....the answer is.......Very Little,except perhaps to immediately gather further information to confirm the data which has flashed up a problem,rather than address the problem itself.

Take,for example,the emerging issue of Iarnrod Eireann expanding the concept of Pay and Display at it`s outer Commuter Belt Railheads.

It`s been apparent to most regular users of these services that there was/is an impending meltdown situation due to NOBODY having the sense to recognize the fruitlessness of NOT providing substantial car-parking at these outer stations

The Dept of Transport and IE would appear to think it`s users arrive by Ass and Cart or Bicycle for their morning train and appear surprised that such folk do not have ANY functional Local Public transport to actually get them HOME from the Local Railway Station.......The answer....."get some Stats lads"...."an oul survey or two"...."do ye know that lad who took early retirement ? he`s after startin up a bit of an oul consultancy is`nt he "....Yep..MORE data collection to pile on top of the already smouldering heap...

Its not more Data and Statistics thats required by this situation,it`s the EFFECTIVE interpretation of the EXISTING data and the WILL to actually DO something in response to these.

For crying out loud people,all of the Fare Collection equipment utilized by the CIE group is of the first calibre in terms of IT capability and can give incredibly detailed reports of Passenger Loadings,Journey Times,and Loading Zones IN REAL TIME..just push the right button.. :eek: :eek: :eek:

trellheim

Alek as you well know CIE is not subject to the Freedom of Information act. or we'd be slamming them for it.

KC61

trellheim wrote: »

I think spareman and KC61 may be along to tell the truth about these claims...

Thanks for putting me on a pedastal here Trellheim!

On the initial point raised, what was said originally was that no bus operated to Lucan. In fact two 25A buses passed which serve the areas where the majority of people live in that area.

However, no 25, 66/66A/66B or 67/67A passed.

Looking at the timetable, there is a 40 minute gap between the 67A at 1930 ex city centre and the next 67 at 2010. There are no 25 buses scheduled during this period (it's a low frequency route). There should have been a 66 at 1950 and a 66A at 1945 ex-city and it's those two buses and the 2010 67 that don't seem to have appeared, along with a few 25A services.

It is possible that the buses were stuck in traffic on the previous journey and were running late (traffic was I believe disastrous on Friday), and hence were unable to operate on time.

Dublin Bus do NOT remove buses willy nilly from the schedule without there being a reason for it. However, it is entirely possible that a bus could be stuck in traffic and this will have a knock-on effect on later services. Hence the period from 2000 can be hit. Look at what happened to the 46A some weeks ago when virtually every bus on the route was trapped between Kildare Street and Donnybrook due to malfunctioning lights. This meant many journeys were unavoidably cancelled.

Unfortunately Dublin Bus do not have a pool of drivers and buses sitting about to cover this sort of eventuality (which mercifully does not happen that often), and it is one of the vagaries of the traffic problems that we as commuters face.

With low frequency routes it is far more apparent when a bus goes late, such as the 70. In an effort to get the schedule back on track what the controller may decide to do is request the driver to pick up the passengers as far as a stop where there are sufficient alternative routes and then either transfer them to another bus or operate "out of service" on a set down basis only in an effort to get both the driver and bus back to where they should be located.

The situation with many of the buses out of service on the Stillorgan QBC is that the drivers are finishing their shifts. These buses would have gone outbound out of service in the early morning to the outer terminus to start, but not many people see these as they're too early!! The scheduled services can be stuck in traffic on an earlier trip.

As far as realtime information systems are concerned, the blame for the delay in providing this can be laid fully at the Government's door as they withdrew the funding from Dublin Bus.

However, the funding is now finally being made available and the project is commencing as outlined on the Dublin Bus website (copied below). However, lead times are another 2-3 years away for the full rollout.

From www.dublinbus.ie

A project is underway to develop a system for deployment across the entire fleet that will be used to track all vehicles in the Dublin Bus fleet and provide information to customers in real time.

Over the years vehicle tracking systems have evolved to incorporate a significant level of control and fleet management functionality. The availability of increased computing power has enabled systems to be developed that assist supervisors in making informed decisions based on real time data and predictions of the consequences of such decisions. Such systems are often referred to as automatic vehicle location and control (AVLC) systems.

Dublin Bus proposes an incremental approach to the development of AVLC/RTPI systems. The key component of any real time system is the vehicle tracking function. This will be a basic requirement for any RTPI system.

Deployment of an AVLC system on the entire Dublin Bus fleet will provide a modern fleet management and control tool. This AVLC system will generate the necessary data that can be used for the provision of information to the public. Real time information may be presented to the customer through a number of channels, such as internet browser, mobile phone via SMS, bus stop information display panels and in-vehicle displays.

It is proposed that each bus in the Dublin Bus fleet will be equipped with an on-board system to support the vehicle location requirements and to provide the necessary data that will be required for the presentation of travel information to the public.

The on-bus system will generate location data in real time using of satellite tracking technology. This data will be transmitted from the bus by means of private radio or GPRS.

The on-bus system will be introduced on a depot by depot basis. As the system is implemented in each depot, the monitoring and control functions will be introduced. Supervisors will have a real time view of the services being operated. They will be able to compare actual services with the schedules, identify gaps in services and take corrective actions. The tools available on the central system will be able to compute the consequences of the controllers’ interventions and regulations, and assist in good decision-making.

A recording facility will store logs of all vehicle movements. This will be used to assist in planning and scheduling. It will also be a valuable tool in post-event investigation of specific events.

Once the AVLC system is operational it will be possible for Dublin Bus to make real time information available to the public. This information may be displayed through a number of channels.

On-bus display units
Roadside display units at key stops on all QBCs.
Internet or personal mobile devices, such as mobile phones.
A tender for the AVLC system was issued at the end of 2006.

The likely timescales for this project are as follows:

Late 2007 Award contract
Mid 2009 Commence deployment of AVLC
Late 2009 Commence testing of RTPI services
Mid 2010 Complete deployment of AVLC
Early 2011 Complete rollout of RTPI services