Small CC, high power to be affected most under new tax system

JHMEG

EDIT: These rates only apply to cars first registered in Ireland on or after July 1st 2008.
They do not apply to cars registered in Ireland before that date.

Owners of large cc engines have been used to paying high road tax, and I think under the new system they won't particularly mind.

However, owners of smaller cc engines will not like the prospect of paying huge road tax... the 1.8 litre Audi TT 225PS will be hardest hit of all cars I've looked at, being the only 1.8 (along with the S3) that will incur road tax at a rate of €2,000.:eek:

I also think that a lot of people would have difficulty paying a grand in tax on a 1.6, as will be the case with the Mini Cooper-S and Civic VTI (and similar). Same for a 1.8.

I reckon we won't see any 2nd hand imports of the following come July:
[HTML] old new
ccL CO2 tax tax
Audi TT 225ps 1.8 226 484 2,000
Audi S3 225ps 1.8 226 484 2,000

Honda S2000 2.0 236 539 2,000
Honda Integra-R 1.8 208 484 1,000
Honda Civic VTI 1.6 198 391 1,000

Lexus IS200 2.0 231 539 2,000

Mazda 3 MPS 2.3 231 755 2,000
Maxda MX-5 (some) 2.0 193 539 1,000

Mitsubishi EVO 2.0 258 539 2,000

Nissan 200SX 2.0 233 539 2,000

Porsche Boxter(all) 2.5+ 239 821 2,000

Subaru Imprezza T 2.0 239 539 2,000
Subaru Legacy(most) 2.0 250 539 2,000

Toyota Celica TS 1.8 200 484 1,000
Toyota Corolla TS 1.8 200 484 1,000

Mini Cooper S (-06) 1.6 207 391 1,000

VW Golf GTI 1.8 192 484 1,000[/HTML]

jammie

ok maybe I'm just pure stupid but I just can't get my head around the new tax system...I'm looking to trade up to a diesel mini in the next few months, probably a 2004/2005, does this mean I will be paying €1,000 tax? Or is it just based on brand new cars? Sorry but I am totally confused!

sonners

I dont really understand all these changes. The tax prices quoted above, are they for new cars or all cars from July 2008? I'm asking because I drive a 99 225bhp TT, my understanding was that my tax would go up by 10% in January. Am I right or will I be paying 2,000 :eek:

sonners

Thanks for that JHMEG, your first post frightened the life outta me

jammie

scared the bejaysus outta me!!!!!!!!!! Was having second thoughts!!!!!!

colm_mcm

cystic5roses wrote: »

ok maybe I'm just pure stupid but I just can't get my head around the new tax system...I'm looking to trade up to a diesel mini in the next few months, probably a 2004/2005, does this mean I will be paying €1,000 tax? Or is it just based on brand new cars? Sorry but I am totally confused!

The Mini One D has much lower emissions than the Cooper S. so it won't be in that category.

jammie

thanks for that!

drdre

sonners wrote: »

I dont really understand all these changes. The tax prices quoted above, are they for new cars or all cars from July 2008? I'm asking because I drive a 99 225bhp TT, my understanding was that my tax would go up by 10% in January. Am I right or will I be paying 2,000 :eek:

Same as me, I dont know whats happening.I have a GTI, and im just going with the flow.My road tax is due in Dec so im actually going to get it paid before jan to avoid a extra charge

Guy:Incognito

drdre wrote: »

Same as me, I dont know whats happening.I have a GTI, and im just going with the flow.My road tax is due in Dec so im actually going to get it paid before jan to avoid a extra charge

It's really not complicated tbh. After feb your tax will be 9.5% more expensive. Other than that, no change.

E92

JHMEG's post illustrates perfectly why a cc tax system was ridiculous and why a CO2 one is much more sensible. Unfortunately the Paddy seems to think automatically big engine = more fuel consumption.

chump

E92 wrote: »

JHMEG's post illustrates perfectly why a cc tax system was ridiculous and why a CO2 one is much more sensible. Unfortunately the Paddy seems to think automatically big engine = more fuel consumption.

yup

some people seem to be confused in not realising that it is only NEW or newly imported cards post july 2008 that will be impacted by the stated new vrt and road tax rules.

Road tax for all currently taxed vehicles will remain on the same system, but will increase by x%

drdre

Stekelly wrote: »

It's really not complicated tbh. After feb your tax will be 9.5% more expensive. Other than that, no change.

Perfecto, I might get the year tax now and save the 9.5%.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

JHMEG's post illustrates perfectly why a cc tax system was ridiculous and why a CO2 one is much more sensible.

I'm now starting to think that they've made a complete balls of it: The Euro test (by one of your own posts) is too simple, but Gormley took the results from it, copied the CO2 bands almost verbatim from the Brits, and then stuck very Irish rates on them. How a 1.8 litre car can fall into a 2 grand tax bracket it unreal.

The result of 2k tax for a small and relatively cheap car like a TT just means, in my opinion, that if people are going to spend 2k tax on a car then they're gonna feel "it better be worth it", and get something like a lot more substantial (and more polluting).

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

How a 1.8 litre car can fall into a 2 grand tax bracket it unreal.

Why can't it? I can never understand the mentality ohh its got a small engine so it must be economical that exists in this country. Small engines can use plenty of fuel. Anyway the TT's engine has got 2 turbos and is very highly tuned, maybe thats got something to do with it?(I know you can set up turbos to get them to use less fuel than their NA equivalent but I don't think that this would be a priority in a car like the TT!) Tuning up an engine is bound to use more fuel, I mean F1 cars have a 2.4 litre engine yet they do is it 5 mpg(and they weigh only 500 kg). All the EU tests have shown for several different makes and models of car that engines set to extract a high bhp/litre will be more frequent visitors to the pumps than those with a normal bhp/litre.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Why can't it?

It can and has. My point is how can a 30mpg 1.8 litre small car fall into the highest bracket in the land, the same bracket as a Hummer!

The top bracket in the UK is also 225g (why are the Brits stopping there, and why are we copying them?) but is only £300.

When the TT is in an urban environment there is no turbo and it is consuming as much fuel as any other 1.8. It may be tuned high-ish but it's not even remotely close to F1.

kdevitt

Its a joke of a system - 1g of CO2 emissions is the only difference between paying 1k and 2k a year on road tax. There are plenty of normal cars which see huge hikes too - a 1.4 Zetec Fiesta goes from just over €280 or so to €600 per year if you happen to import one in July of next year.

I'm going to plump for a 325d coupe - will be less than €300 a year to tax, and thanks to some wizardry from the tuners at Hartge, it'll be kicking out 271BHP and a shed more Co2 than standard.

E92 wrote:

All the EU tests have shown for several different makes and models of car that engines set to extract a high bhp/litre will be more frequent visitors to the pumps than those with a normal bhp/litre.

Exactly the reason that we should pay our road tax at the pumps.

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

My point is how can a 30mpg 1.8 litre small car fall into the highest bracket in the land, the same bracket as a Hummer!

Becuase it pollutes 226g of C02 per KM driven on average as per the standardised test (which includes Urban driving and MPG averages). The engine size is a by-the-way, it has no bearing anymore which is a good thing in the long run.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

It can and has. My point is how can a 30mpg 1.8 litre small car fall into the highest bracket in the land, the same bracket as a Hummer!

I get you now. I agree that a 225 g/km band is an extemely low level. A lot of cars that average 30 mpg will find themselves here in the case of a petrol, and around 33 mpg in the case of a diesel. I don't think anyone could call 30 mpg a "gas guzzler".

kdevitt wrote:

Exactly the reason that we should pay our road tax at the pumps.

Again I agree with that, however in the absence of this an emissions tax is the best option.

unkel

kdevitt wrote: »

Exactly the reason that we should pay our road tax at the pumps.

+1. Unfortunately the minister doesn't have the balls to go for it

projectgtr

i can see alot of cars (like my own) that have been imported before this being like gold dust come re-sale time, this is the part i just dont get, if someone owns the same civic as me but imports it after this date they pay 1000 in tax an i pay less than half?? if this is the case its utter crap, and my chassis will go forever

JHMEG

Here's the maths for how much CO2 that €1 will buy you under the new system:
[HTML]Band g/km
A 1.2g
B 0.93g
C 0.53g
D 0.49g
E 0.316g
F 0.225g [/HTML]

So, you might be thinking under Band A they have it all... but under Band G, you pay 2k, and can put out as much CO2 as you like.

@projectgtr, what's your car?

peasant

unkel wrote: »

+1. Unfortunately the minister doesn't have the balls to go for it

Taxing fuel instead of car ownership would be

a) political suicide (what with all the voters from the commuter belt who have no choice but to drive) and

b) an economical desaster. Everything in Ireland (including workers) has to be transported / distributed large distances by road ...imagine the inflation in prices and wages.

t'would be fairer, though

Earth Worm Jim

A good site for co2 emissions on new cars.

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/

cw girl

JHMEG wrote: »

EDIT: These rates only apply to cars first registered in Ireland on or after July 1st 2008.
They do not apply to cars registered in Ireland before that date.

Owners of large cc engines have been used to paying high road tax, and I think under the new system they won't particularly mind.

However, owners of smaller cc engines will not like the prospect of paying huge road tax... the 1.8 litre Audi TT 225PS will be hardest hit of all cars I've looked at, being the only 1.8 (along with the S3) that will incur road tax at a rate of €2,000.:eek:

I also think that a lot of people would have difficulty paying a grand in tax on a 1.6, as will be the case with the Mini Cooper-S and Civic VTI (and similar). Same for a 1.8.



I reckon we won't see any 2nd hand imports of the following come July:
[HTML] old new
ccL CO2 tax tax
Audi TT 225ps 1.8 226 484 2,000
Audi S3 225ps 1.8 226 484 2,000

Honda S2000 2.0 236 539 2,000
Honda Integra-R 1.8 208 484 1,000
Honda Civic VTI 1.6 198 391 1,000

Lexus IS200 2.0 231 539 2,000

Mazda 3 MPS 2.3 231 755 2,000
Maxda MX-5 (some) 2.0 193 539 1,000

Mitsubishi EVO 2.0 258 539 2,000

Nissan 200SX 2.0 233 539 2,000

Porsche Boxter(all) 2.5+ 239 821 2,000

Subaru Imprezza T 2.0 239 539 2,000
Subaru Legacy(most) 2.0 250 539 2,000

Toyota Celica TS 1.8 200 484 1,000
Toyota Corolla TS 1.8 200 484 1,000

Mini Cooper S (-06) 1.6 207 391 1,000

VW Golf GTI 1.8 192 484 1,000[/HTML]

Hi - do u have the € impact for a 1.9 tdi golf? Thx

JHMEG

peasant wrote:

Taxing fuel instead of car ownership would be
a) political suicide (what with all the voters from the commuter belt who have no choice but to drive) and

A by-product of the insane property boom we had here. But never mind, the party faithful got rich and that's the main thing.

peasant wrote:

b) an economical desaster. Everything in Ireland (including workers) has to be transported / distributed large distances by road ...imagine the inflation in prices and wages.

A little creative thinking would sort that out, be it rail, biodiesel, zero duty on fuels for hauliers (they are the veins and arteries of this country, like it or not) etc.

cw_girl wrote:

Hi - do u have the € impact for a 1.9 tdi golf? Thx

Did you read the huge bold text?

unkel

peasant wrote: »

Taxing fuel instead of car ownership would be

a) political suicide (what with all the voters from the commuter belt who have no choice but to drive) and

b) an economical desaster. Everything in Ireland (including workers) has to be transported / distributed large distances by road ...imagine the inflation in prices and wages.

t'would be fairer, though

Many people said the same about the smoking ban. One in three of Irish adults were smokers at the time. Many promised to kick the minister's arse out of politics in the next election. Never mind the publicans who were outraged, organised and vocal. They all predicted pubs would close, people would lose their jobs and tourism would die. It hasn't really been that dramatic now, has it?

galwaytt

E92 wrote: »

..anyway the TT's engine has got 2 turbos and is very highly tuned, ...

No it doesn't - it has only one turbo. 180bhp has single intercooler, and 225 etc has two, and a larger turbo. But still only one. And 180 bhp (the common one, here) isn't 'very highly tuned'.

peasant

unkel wrote: »

Many people said the same about the smoking ban. One in three of Irish adults were smokers at the time. Many promised to kick the minister's arse out of politics in the next election. Never mind the publicans who were outraged, organised and vocal. They all predicted pubs would close, people would lose their jobs and tourism would die. It hasn't really been that dramatic now, has it?

Well, it is one thing when the guvvmint forces you outside in the cold rain to have your smoke; quite another when driving from your overvalued shoebox in the shticks to work becomes so expensive that you may as well stay at home ...because either way you won't be able to meet the payments on the shoebox anymore.

Your average Joe & Jane are up to their necks in debt. A 0.25% rise in interest rates puts their livelihood on the line ...imagine what a 10-20% rise in transport cost would do. Factor in "naturally" rising fuel prices as well and taxing fuel really is a non-starter in the current situation (at least until Joe & Jane can take a bus or a train to work)

ondafly

well maybe your average "Joe & Jane" as you put it - should have purchased within their means, and not gone and copied the Jones, and bought a place outside Dublin, just because it has a garden and an extra bedroom! Perhaps Joe & Jane should have rented somewhere within the city instead ?

If the sole reason the minister did not put the road tax on petrol, simply because it would cost Joe & Jane more to work, its just another fine example of the motorist getting screwed.

Cyrus

kdevitt wrote: »

Its a joke of a system - 1g of CO2 emissions is the only difference between paying 1k and 2k a year on road tax. There are plenty of normal cars which see huge hikes too - a 1.4 Zetec Fiesta goes from just over €280 or so to €600 per year if you happen to import one in July of next year.

I'm going to plump for a 325d coupe - will be less than €300 a year to tax, and thanks to some wizardry from the tuners at Hartge, it'll be kicking out 271BHP and a shed more Co2 than standard.



Exactly the reason that we should pay our road tax at the pumps.

thats the spirit ken, will feel great driving that knowing you have screwed the system will be a mighty quick car too! is the m3 going then?

Cyrus

ondafly wrote: »

well maybe your average "Joe & Jane" as you put it - should have purchased within their means, and not gone and copied the Jones, and bought a place outside Dublin, just because it has a garden and an extra bedroom! Perhaps Joe & Jane should have rented somewhere within the city instead ?

If the sole reason the minister did not put the road tax on petrol, simply because it would cost Joe & Jane more to work, its just another fine example of the motorist getting screwed.

he didnt tax fuel because the real polluters - i.e. taxis and hauliers would be up in arms :mad: its madness than a) the top rate of tax is 2k (versus 450 euro in blighty with better roads etc) and b) that you could do 5000 miles a year in a so called guzzler and still pay 2k, mean while mr co rep mobile does 30k is his 'efficent' mondeo diesel and he pays 300 feckin quid

peasant

ondafly wrote: »

well maybe your average "Joe & Jane" as you put it - should have purchased within their means, and not gone and copied the Jones, and bought a place outside Dublin, just because it has a garden and an extra bedroom! Perhaps Joe & Jane should have rented somewhere within the city instead ?

If the sole reason the minister did not put the road tax on petrol, simply because it would cost Joe & Jane more to work, its just another fine example of the motorist getting screwed.

Or maybe ...just maybe ...the governement should have thought about this and put some infrastructure in place before they let the brown envelope brigade "develop" the middle of nowhere.

Either way ...someone's getting screwed ...and it's not the ones at fault

JHMEG

ondafly wrote: »

Perhaps Joe & Jane should have rented somewhere within the city instead ?

You'd be happy to rent for the rest of your life, being subject to the landlord's whims, battling to get simple maintenance done, reluctant to bring up kids as the landlord's daughter might come home from Oz at any time and she'll need the house if she does?

You're really suggesting that that is a better alternative to buying a house in the shticks and commuting?

Irish people, maybe because of history, see home ownership not as a luxury but as a right.

E92

galwaytt wrote: »

No it doesn't - it has only one turbo. 180bhp has single intercooler, and 225 etc has two, and a larger turbo. But still only one. And 180 bhp (the common one, here) isn't 'very highly tuned'.

We weren't talking about the 180 version though! JHMEG only mentiomned the 225. As for the 225, didn't realise it had only one turbo. It must be a pretty big one if it can get 100 bhp extra from the NA 1.8. Or else the 1.8 is highly tuned and a smaller turbo was fitted. Either way it's gonna use more fuel than the 180 version.

JHMEG

One or two turbos is moot.. come July 1st it'll have none.

ismynametoolong

In scrapping Engine size CC as a basis for calculating tax from either VRT or
Road Tax the GOV assisted by the greens have shot themselves in the foot.

Why so you say !!

ALL manufacturers are striving to get CO2 figures down for EU markets and the magic target is an average of 130 g/km as technology improves this will be achieved and actually further reduced and thus the Governments revenue
will also be reduced.So what will they have to do , they will have to alter
or modify VRT bands at every budget to maintain their piece of the pie which
will only cause further confusion and annoyance.
All manufacturers can substantially reduce the CO2 figures over night by type approving cars with smaller wheels , less accessories ie Air con and lowering their Cd figures so dont be surprised to see the option and spec lists of current models along with Co2 figures changing a lot come July 08

craichoe

ismynametoolong wrote: »

In scrapping Engine size CC as a basis for calculating tax from either VRT or
Road Tax the GOV assisted by the greens have shot themselves in the foot.

Why so you say !!

ALL manufacturers are striving to get CO2 figures down for EU markets and the magic target is an average of 130 g/km as technology improves this will be achieved and actually further reduced and thus the Governments revenue
will also be reduced.So what will they have to do , they will have to alter
or modify VRT bands at every budget to maintain their piece of the pie which
will only cause further confusion and annoyance.
All manufacturers can substantially reduce the CO2 figures over night by type approving cars with smaller wheels , less accessories ie Air con and lowering their Cd figures so dont be surprised to see the option and spec lists of current models along with Co2 figures changing a lot come July 08

No,

This has been coming since 2006, taxing by co2 emissions is to pay for the fines were going to receive for not being under the limit for kyoto

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2006/1030/1162055437429.html

yellow012

cw girl wrote: »

Hi - do u have the € impact for a 1.9 tdi golf? Thx

If you have one already and its the 105bhp model the tax will go up to approx €550. If your planning to buy a new one in July the tax will be €150.