Unfair Dismissal. Surely they can't be serious!?

Moussdog

Just wondering if I'm losing my mind or have I been unfairly dismissed.

I work for a large movie rental outlet. Guess who!

I was let go today after what seemed like an informal 5 min chat with my boss.

I have only been working in the company for a short while but had worked for them previously for a year and havn't 1 blemish on my record.

These are the 2 reasons he let me go:

Reason 1 was that I wrote a tongue in cheek note to him explaining that removing the hoover (It's bloody heavy) every night, because the girls can't, from the toilet was becoming increasingly difficult because of the ammount of stock in there. The floor space at the moment is about 3ft by 2 ft including the toilet itself. Forget about being able to wash your hands.

The second reason was that I had been asked to do a floor job which is reserved for 2 other employee's that were employed over Christmas which is very undesirable but I obliged to do. I commented to my assistant manager jokingly/sarcasticly that if I had to do this tomorrow I wasn't coming in. It was a complete joke which didn't provoke any response from her.

So today the mangager asked me to explain myself. I said on the first count I never refused to do anything and that it genuinely was a health and safety issue. On the second count I intended it as a joke. He didn't accept this and as we walked out after our "chat" behind my back he mumbles "we'll have to let you go". I turned around and asked if he was serious. He said Yes.

Sorry for being long winded. Any thoughts??

Mr. Presentable

Moussdog wrote: »

Just wondering if I'm losing my mind or have I been unfairly dismissed.

I work for a large movie rental outlet. Guess who!

I was let go today after what seemed like an informal 5 min chat with my boss.

I have only been working in the company for a short while but had worked for them previously for a year and havn't 1 blemish on my record.

These are the 2 reasons he let me go:

Reason 1 was that I wrote a tongue in cheek note to him explaining that removing the hoover (It's bloody heavy) every night, because the girls can't, from the toilet was becoming increasingly difficult because of the ammount of stock in there. The floor space at the moment is about 3ft by 2 ft including the toilet itself. Forget about being able to wash your hands.

The second reason was that I had been asked to do a floor job which is reserved for 2 other employee's that were employed over Christmas which is very undesirable but I obliged to do. I commented to my assistant manager jokingly/sarcasticly that if I had to do this tomorrow I wasn't coming in. It was a complete joke which didn't provoke any response from her.

So today the mangager asked me to explain myself. I said on the first count I never refused to do anything and that it genuinely was a health and safety issue. On the second count I intended it as a joke. He didn't accept this and as we walked out after our "chat" behind my back he mumbles "we'll have to let you go". I turned around and asked if he was serious. He said Yes.

Sorry for being long winded. Any thoughts??

I've highlighted the key word in your post. My experience of working with female managers is that they are humourless and power abusers for the most part. It sounds like an unfair dismissal, but really, do you think you'll ever get satisfaction from them?

drdre

Number 1 dont mess with your boss if you werent friendly and secondly you deserve it for saying i wont be coming in tommorrow....


Sorry if i was the boss and someone told me what to do i would let you go.

mikemac

As above, your threat to not show up was taken seriously.
Your manager doesn't want the hassle of finding a new replacement or bringing in someone on their day off to cover for you

Sorry, but you kinda deserved it.

Moussdog

I've never had a problem with the managers before. I made the comment at the start of my shift to the "assistant manager". We were laughing and joking around after that during our shift. I didn't speak to the manager until today.

Basically if I'm to believe that, if you agree with them, you think gross misconduct is based on preempting somone not doing what they're asked to do. No warning just an the spot firing for that?? If I hadn't come in maybe, but come on.

chump

Moussdog wrote: »

I've never had a problem with the managers before. I made the comment at the start of my shift to the "assistant manager". We were laughing and joking around after that during our shift. I didn't speak to the manager until today.

Basically if I'm to believe that, if you agree with them, you think gross misconduct is based on preempting somone not doing what they're asked to do. No warning just an the spot firing for that?? If I hadn't come in maybe, but come on.

Well you've clearly been unfairly dismissed if what you have posted is correct.

The question is what are you going to do about it?
Ring a solicitor in the morning?
I doubt it. Have a good moan about it and then get over it.

seamus

If you're working there less than a year (your previous employment is irrelevant), your ability to bring any unfair dismissal claim is massively reduced.

I'd question the motives behind it. Seems very heavy-handed for the circumstances. Maybe the assistant manager was threatened by you - she heard rumblings about promotions or something?

I'd move on

trellheim

1: do they have a grievance/dismissal policy - e.g. warning/reprimand/suspension/dismissal ? they probably do. You were probably under probation which means they can let you go if they like.

On joining as part of T's and C's /contract you should have been shown these

However without a chance to present in writing and be heard then I think they're skating but you did yourself no favours at all.

leeroybrown

As was pointed out above the Unfair Dismissals Act barely applies to those with less than 12 months continuous employment. Your dismissal would not fall within the very short list of grounds for unfair dismissal within the first 12 months. Also if you are still under a standard contractual probation/training period then there are no circumstances where you would fall within the grounds for unfair dismissal.

While it was a slightly heavy handed dismissal I think you unconsciously over-estimated how much leeway you had because you had worked there previously. The manager probably decided that you'd be hassle in the long run and that he could easily replace you.

You've absolutely no case so just move on.

John Kimble

Moussdog wrote: »

I work for a large movie rental outlet. Guess who!

Assuming that you worked for the same company as I once did, then the store manager can't fire you on the spot. The final decision lies with the district manager, so maybe talk to him/her first.

drdre

John Kimble wrote: »

Assuming that you worked for the same company as I once did, then the store manager can't fire you on the spot. The final decision lies with the district manager, so maybe talk to him/her first.

Thats a good remark.It might be helpful.

dame

Moussdog wrote: »

Reason 1 was that I wrote a tongue in cheek note to him explaining that removing the hoover (It's bloody heavy) every night, because the girls can't, from the toilet was becoming increasingly difficult because of the ammount of stock in there. The floor space at the moment is about 3ft by 2 ft including the toilet itself. Forget about being able to wash your hands.

That's disgusting and so unhygienic! You're right about it being a health & safety issue but it's also a hygiene issue. I would not want to be buying my DVD or games console from a premises that had stored it in a minging staff jacks. I doubt very much the toilet has been cleaned properly in recent times since there is nowhere else to put the stuff and staff (or anyone) not washing their hands is just absolutely disgusting.

If you wanted to get a bit of revenge (and improve things for the staff and customers) then you could always call in a H&S or hygiene inspector or tell head office of the company.....

Go on, tell us where it is so we can buy our clean Christmas gifts elsewhere.....please?

Dudess

drdre wrote: »

Number 1 dont mess with your boss if you werent friendly and secondly you deserve it for saying i wont be coming in tommorrow....


Sorry if i was the boss and someone told me what to do i would let you go.

micmclo wrote: »

As above, your threat to not show up was taken seriously.
Your manager doesn't want the hassle of finding a new replacement or bringing in someone on their day off to cover for you

Sorry, but you kinda deserved it.

Preposterous. Hilariously melodramatic and po-faced. What fun you guys would be to work for... :rolleyes: God, Boards is a great platform for people who love telling people they're in the wrong even when they're not. OP, ignore the above nonsense - they obviously just enjoy being unsupportive. You were dreadfully treated, and while you certainly don't have a leg to stand on legally, investigate the company's policies on probation, warnings (verbal/written) etc and if your sacking is inconsistent with any of the company's code then damn well flag it to them. Don't try to get your job back, but do appeal their awful, vindictive decision.
And again, re those other posts, if that's the kind of mindset some employers have, it's rather disturbing.
So the OP "deserved" to be fired for the minutest, most insignificant of misdemeanours. And he/she didn't actually DO anything, just made a comment? Nice.

trellheim wrote:

1: do they have a grievance/dismissal policy - e.g. warning/reprimand/suspension/dismissal ? they probably do. You were probably under probation which means they can let you go if they like.

On joining as part of T's and C's /contract you should have been shown these.
However without a chance to present in writing and be heard then I think they're skating

Helpful.

but you did yourself no favours at all.

Unhelpful. The OP did nothing wrong apart from securing employment with a company whose management isn't familiar with the concepts of a sense of humour or a sense of irony. Gosh, it must be so miserable to take life so seriously. :rolleyes:

leeroybrown

Dudess wrote: »

So the OP "deserved" to be fired for the minutest, most insignificant of misdemeanours. And he/she didn't actually DO anything, just made a comment? Nice.

While I agree that the OP didn't deserve to be sacked and that management were heavy handed I think it's easy to see how he might have caught the manager and assistant manager on a bad/busy day and the two things compounded each other in the wrong way. I'm not saying they should have dismissed him but I might expect to get a bit of hassle if I did that after a short time in a job.

SarahMc

As others have stated, legally this is not an unfair dismissal.

Morally, hmmm, if you had an issue with the hoover, and I can see why this is a h&s issue, why did you not just say it to the manager, rather than write a "tongue in cheek" letter, this may have got you branded as a trouble maker.

Wishbone Ash

leeroybrown wrote: »

he might have caught the manager and assistant manager on a bad/busy day

If an employer wishes to discontinue the services of an employee, it shouldn't depend on the mood on a manager on a particular day. :eek:

(BTW - I am very much aware of the legal aspects of an "unfair" dismissal.)

Time Magazine

Get onto Kim in HR and discuss it. They take such claims very seriously.

DonkeyStyle \o/

I think attempts at humour towards your boss are a very very bad idea.
It comes across disrespectful, and depending on how much of an inept, insecure headcase your boss is, you may very well make top of their shít-list for it.
Bad managers/supervisors just can't deal with it and interpret everything as a threat or challenge to their authority... flying off the handle in response.
There needs to be some management aptitude test to filter out the irrational, emotional, power-struggle weenies... I've worked under some people who should never have been put in a position of managing other people.

Dudess

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If an employer wishes to discontinue the services of an employee, it shouldn't depend on the mood on a manager on a particular day. :eek:

Oh no, it means the employee "deserves" to get fired

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I think attempts at humour towards your boss are a very very bad idea.
It comes across disrespectful, and depending on how much of an inept, insecure headcase your boss is, you may very well make top of their shít-list for it.
Bad managers/supervisors just can't deal with it and interpret everything as a threat or challenge to their authority... flying off the handle in response.
There needs to be some management aptitude test to filter out the irrational, emotional, power-struggle weenies... I've worked under some people who should never have been put in a position of managing other people.

Good post - yep, people don't "deserve" to get sacked because they offended the sensibilities of a person who is irrational in the first place.

WindSock

Definatley get on to someone higher than the store manger, like your District or HR, as previously suggested. There's a good reason why certain video stores are always hiring, I doubt the higher ups even know what sort of managers run the stores and their staff, all they see is how much money is made from each one. If you were to highlight the health and safety issue of the toilets, I'm sure they would listen.

Moussdog

Just want to thank everyone for their input....well most of it . I am of the opinion myself that, yes, my actions were a little regretable but they were taken due to the fact that I felt comfortable with my colleagues and not intended to aggravate them.

"why did you not just say it to the manager, rather than write a "tongue in cheek" letter"

In relation to the above comment, I don't see the manager that often because he works day I work night (incidently when the hoovering is done) and would not have seen him for another week.

Anyway I spoke to the manager today and asked him if he could clarify exactly why he fired me as I had read my contract over and couldn't find any reason on the "gross misconduct" list and why he hadn't offered me the chance to have a witness at our meeting. I asked was he still standing by the fact that my issue with the hoover being a health and safety problem was a reason. I also asked for the district managers number.

His response was "Well I never said you were fired, I said we'll have to let you go" I thought I'd quote that just to demonstrate the calibre of person were dealing with. He guffawed at the suggestion that he was in the wrong according to the contract. He retracted his disatisfaction about the hoover as if it was no longer an issue. Incidently he wouldn't give me the DM's number.

It was after this conversation I thought do I really want my job back? Do want to work for somone who runs a business in the guise of Basil Fawlty. In any case I still thinks it'swrong.

I will ring HR tomorrow. I couldn't get around it as I have another day job. Before anyone mentions it, my day job has never interfered with the job in question.

chump

SarahMc wrote: »

As others have stated, legally this is not an unfair dismissal.

Morally, hmmm, if you had an issue with the hoover, and I can see why this is a h&s issue, why did you not just say it to the manager, rather than write a "tongue in cheek" letter, this may have got you branded as a trouble maker.

Normally you must have at least 12 months' continuous service with your employer in order to bring a claim for unfair dismissal...

Note: employment equality legislation prohibits dismissal based on any of the following 9 grounds for discrimination: gender, marital status, family status, age, disability, religious belief, race, sexual orientation or membership of the Traveller community. So, for example, if you have been employed for less than a year you may not be able to bring a claim under the unfair dismissals legislation, but you may be able make a complaint of discriminatory dismissal - see 'How to apply' below.

In general, the continuity of an employee's employment is only broken by the dismissal of the employee by the employer or the termination of the employment by the employee.

What you need to do is get your employer to state in writing why you have been dismissed. Tell them you need it for social services and insist on it in writing.

To do this they must give a reason, or not give a reason.

If a reason is given, this must constitute gross misconduct.

If not give a reason, they are using the element in the contract which states they may terminate a contract within a probationary period (etc.) to let you go without reason. If they say the latter, this means that they owe you the minimum notice salary, and for the record you will not have been sacked.

Dudess

Moussdog wrote: »

It was after this conversation I thought do I really want my job back? Do want to work for somone who runs a business in the guise of Basil Fawlty. In any case I still thinks it'swrong.

Oh I think it goes without saying that you shouldn't look for the job back, but in order to show that you won't take their sh*t, appeal the decision and do what you have to do to get that manager's incompetence flagged to his superiors.

dats_right

Why do so many insist on giving inaccurate advice to the OP? As stated by some other posters the OP needs to be in the continuous employment of employer for one year before they can initiate Unfair Dismissal proceedings, unless they were dismissed:
1. on one of the automatically unfair grounds:Trade union membership or activity; Pregnancy, giving birth or breastfeeding or any matters connected with pregnancy or birth; Availing of rights granted by the Maternity Protection Acts 1994 and 2004, the Adoptive Leave Acts 1995 and 2005, the National Minimum Wage Act 2000, the Parental Leave Acts 1998 and 2006 and the Carer's Leave Act 2001)
2. on one or more of the nine discriminatory grounds: gender; marital status; family status;age;disability; race; sexual orientation; religious belief; and membership of the Traveller Community.

If the OP does not have one years continuous service or alternatively does not fall within category 1 or 2 above THEN THEY HAVE NO STATUTORY REMEDY!!! Harsh as that maybe that is the law. Whether the employer behaved well towards the OP or treated them fairly is another matter but does not give them a remdey unless they fall within the above!

Dudess

It looks to me like most posters are acknowledging the OP doesn't have any legal rights. But one can still appeal such a decision to the company.

derry

You been shafted plain and simple

But the vidio rental companies are in a death ward tail spin from losses to broadband on demand films etc so expect in a few years nearly all the shops to shut down

So even if you could sue the SOB you wouldnt get anythinjg once they do the belly up game

Also you say you do day job

so presume you do part time work less than 20 hours per week

To my knowelege no matter how long you work years decades etc when it less than 20hours they can dispose you any time for no reason only the decide too

But the reaction from of the other high and mighty out there usualy jumped up workers who are self premoted supervisors " you deserved it " etc shows how stupid some of these workers are not to realize the boss would fire them just as quick if they were a tiny bit overstaffed

Until your mouth is bigger than your pay monthly salary or weekly pay check then if you lose your job after your saving are used up in weeks months whatever and you dont get another job because your too old or nobody needs house wife with kids whatever your in the same pile of crap as all the other workers so licking up to bosses only makes it easier to set workers against each other
But sure as god made apples the girl who did this act of firing probably cant see the total piture beyond her finger nails drying in the wind

Derry

lostexpectation

she was looking for excuse to rid of people