[Article] Regional cities may be on track for Luas

munchkin_utd

Taken from the Irish Independent - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/regional-cities-may-be-on-track-for-luas-1240076.html


Regional cities may be on track for Luas

By Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent
Friday December 07 2007

THE Government is to go ahead with studies to test whether Luas trams could be rolled out in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford.

The Transport Department is prepared to build Luas light rail systems in these regional cities if studies it has ordered conclude that this is feasible.

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey revealed yesterday that the feasibility studies would determine if either Luas or rapid bus services could be introduced to cater for expanding commuter belts around cities.

Mr Dempsey disclosed the Luas plan yesterday when he expanded on plans to spend a record €3.8bn on transport next year.

munchkin_utd

My thoughts on this
- what sort of a study is this that is proposed? Does feasability mean a plain costings study to arrive at a figure of what the cost will be OR is it a cost benefit analysis where its assesed what ecomomic benefits will accrue from say lessened traffic congestion and improved transport links to an area?

- has there ever been mention by the government of bring light rail to the regions before now? I read irish news fourms and websites far too much for my own good and I've only heard the odd councellor mention light rail outside of Dublin.

Bards

From Irish Times (April 21st 2007) http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0421/1176455026318.html
==========================
FF transport plan includes regional Luas lines and bus-trams
Tim O'Brien

Proposals to develop Luas and bus-based trams in regional cities, to run Dublin's metro north underground through Ballymun, and to increase borrowing limits for the Dublin Airport Authority were put forward by Minister for Transport Martin Cullen yesterday.

Launching Fianna Fáil's policy document on transport, Mr Cullen also said it included a commitment to proceed with the Government's transport strategy, Transport 21, which he described as "my brainchild".

While Opposition spokeswomen on transport said Mr Cullen should be judged on what they insisted were his past failures, the Minister said whatever government was in power this year, Transport 21 would go ahead because it had received "substantial approval" from most parities.

Mr Cullen said a return of Fianna Fáil to office would see the government asking city authorities in Cork, Limerick and Galway to bring forward proposals for the development of Luas systems in tandem with the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA).

He commended the model used by Fingal County Council to secure an extension of metro north to Swords.

The local authority, in co-operation with the RPA and local property interests, had presented him with a development case "to which there was only one answer".

In the Fingal model property developers who were guaranteed higher density development by proximity to the railway - and so greater profits - were required to commit development levies to part-fund the metro system.

For its part, the local authority committed to drafting its development plan in a way that made the railway central to where people would live, work and how they would travel to work.

Mr Cullen said it was "a big ask" of the city authorities in Cork, Limerick and Galway to bring forward such plans, but the RPA would work with them.

Mr Cullen also revealed a system of "bus-trams" or "streetcars", which were "popular in the US, Canada and some European cities" being considered by Bus Éireann for introduction in regional cities.

These are essentially tram "lookalikes" but powered by diesel or biodiesel engines.

The bus-trams or streetcars have much lower initial costs than a tram as well as lower operating costs.

Bus Éireann is in discussions with Wrights of Ballymena in Northern Ireland on leasing a prototype for use in some regional cities which could go into operation in six months' time.

In Dublin, Mr Cullen said a decision had already been taken to route metro north underground at Ballymun, at a cost of under €200 million.

It had been previously proposed that the metro would run at ground level through Ballymun main street, an issue which was likely to become a significant general election issue in the area.

In the aviation sector, Mr Cullen announced the Government had approved the raising of limits on borrowing available to the Dublin Airport Authority to €1.8 billion. The current limit is €700 million.

Mr Cullen's initiatives were criticised by Opposition spokeswomen Olivia Mitchell of Fine Gael and Róisín Shortall of Labour.

While Ms Shortall welcomed Mr Cullen's "U-turn" on the Ballymun line, she said the "victory" was on the part of local residents.

Ms Mitchell said "Calamity Cullen" was in charge of a roads plan that had run more than €12 billion over budget. Before he could be trusted we should take a look at his earlier efforts.

FF transport policy proposals: main points

A commitment to run metro north underground through Ballymun.

Luas systems in Cork, Limerick and Galway, subject to feasibility studies and based on a public-private partnership model.

Testing of "lookalike" bus trams (above) or streetcars in regional cities such as Waterford and Galway.

A commitment to increase the Dublin Airport Authority's borrowing permission from the current €700 million to €1.8 billion

1huge1

There has been quiet a few planners interested in implementing a light rail in Limerick already, if any of these cities were to get it I'd say it would be Limerick especially due to the lay out of the streets (grid like in comparision to cork)

Zoney

Limerick has rubbish road infrastructure due to the city boundary issue. If that is not an obstacle to light rail (i.e. its a government project rather than LAs) then Limerick is pretty suited to such a project. The city has grown in a fashion (due to boundary issue) that suits three main arteries, serving Caherdavin (Ennis side), Raheen (Limerick County side) and Castletroy (UL/Dublin Road side).

bk

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Building Luas in regional cities is ridiculous when the bus services in these cities is so bad.

If you spent just a fraction of the cost of Luas on the bus service, you would get a massive improvement.

What is needed is more buses, new routes, far higher frequency (max every 10 minutes), double deckers, no sitting in the city center for 30 minutes, etc.

Also the bus services need to be taken off Bus Eireann and local bus companies similar to DB created under the control of the city councils.

Now fair enough if these Luas feasibility studies are just to identify the routes where Luas might go in 20 or 30 years and to retain the land along the route for future development, that would make a lot of sense.

But I worry that all this talk of Luas is just BS to distract people from the real problems and their relatively straight forward solutions.

mike65

Agree, buses are cheap and can be introduced quickly (relatively speaking). LUAS for all smacks of the worst sort of parrish pump politics. A green public/collective tint should'nt
disguise that.

from Bus Éireann

Bus Rapid Transit - Could ‘Bus Trams’ be the Future for Public Transport in Irish Cities?

Bus Éireann has also revealed it is currently examining the potential for the introduction of ‘BRT’ (Bus Rapid Transit), commonly known as ‘bus trams’ which are popular in the US, Canada and in a growing number of European cities.

The company is at present exploring the feasibility of operating bus trams in Irish cities including Galway.

An 18 metre streetcar, manufactured by Wrights of Ballymena, Co Antrim, was unveiled at the event.

What are bus trams and what can they deliver?

Bus trams are a bus/tram hybrid vehicle capable of delivering a high quality tram-style service in terms of capacity and reliability, coupled with the far lower costs associated with manufacturing and running buses.

The attractiveness of Bus Rapid Transit lies in its potential to deliver a very high frequency service at a fraction of the cost of designing building and maintaining a full-scale tram system.

Quality stations and ‘bus stops’ are provided at frequent intervals along the route featuring Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI), so customers know what time the next service is due.

Bus Trams: the Benefits

Cost-effective – Bus trams have the carrying capacity of traditional trams at a fraction of the cost. BRT enables communities to address transportation needs quickly while leaving resources for other important priorities, like schools and parks. The high cost of traditional trams typically limits the amount that can be provided. Because of the cost effectiveness of BRT, many more services can be provided – to ensure wide-ranging provision.
High capacity - Ottowa, Ontario, operates one of the largest BRT systems in North America, with over 200,000 daily riders on the Ottowa Transitway, achieving peak capacities of 10,000 passengers per hour per direction. This has been cited as an example of the efficiency of BRT systems.
Quick and simple solution – Bus trams can operate on ordinary road space thus saving the lengthy time periods associated with constructing tram systems, delivering important benefits in a short time frame
Eco-friendly - Bus trams are capable of running on alternative, more environmentally-friendly fuels making them cleaner and quieter than traditional diesel buses. By relieving congestion on streets, they reduce emissions, noise levels and improve the air quality.
High quality design - Bus trams are low floor, wheelchair-accessible and are contemporary in design with comparatively spacious interiors.
Fast, high quality service - Because bus trams typically operate on dedicated bus way, the punctuality of service and reliability is significantly improved. The provision of real time passenger information also tells customers what time the next service is due.
High frequency service - A high-frequency, all day service can be provided with stops at frequent intervals to facilitate a large number of users.

The cost of bus trams versus conventional trams systems is impressive

Low construction costs, low maintenance costs
Infrastructure costs 10%
Vehicle costs 75%
Vehicle operating costs 80%
Infrastructure operating costs 0.5%

Bus trams – ideal for medium sized cities

BRT is regarded by transport experts as the ideal public transport solution for small to medium sized cities. The system is currently in operation in Eindhoven in the Netherlands which has a population of 550,000.

Mike.

Stark

RTPI is what Cork needs. No more standing around for 90 mins waiting for a bus that's supposed to arrive every 10 because you didn't know in advance that the next 6 or 7 buses were going to be running. Journey times are fine apart from the waiting around in the city centre imo.

Will Bus Éireann be okay with such transparency is the thing though. I can see this ending up on the long finger. And I'd say if it every does get introduced, it'll be "STRIKE!". In that sense, I can see the benefit of introducing a private company into the mix.

Zoney

bk wrote: »

What is needed is more buses, new routes, far higher frequency (max every 10 minutes), double deckers, no sitting in the city center for 30 minutes, etc.

Actually, I would argue that considering the high patronage of the current rubbish bus service in Limerick (already every 10 mins on Raheen route) despite it being so unreliable, slow and unpleasant, that if you had a sensibly run bus service, it wouldn't handle the demand on the Raheen and UL routes in particular. UL has 10,000 on campus every day.

And getting around the city even by private car is just getting more and more silly with all the new retail developments. There's a new one being built at one of the worst choke points, Parkway (already a jam at peak times). This new shopping centre, the LiffeyParkway Valley Shopping Centre currently has six full-size cranes onsite and consists of a giant pit and a colony of lift-shafts where there used to be a hillside. When it opens (not going to be helped by another new retail park too, ParkPoint, across the road with a multi-storey hotel), the entire area will be gridlock.

Idbatterim

Absolutely ridiculous! to cost to build 1 light rail line in a regional town, would be a multiple of providing a decent bus and existing train infrastructure that would serve the entire area! is this a joke?!

Zoney

Idbatterim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous! to cost to build 1 light rail line in a regional town, would be a multiple of providing a decent bus and existing train infrastructure that would serve the entire area! is this a joke?!

I agree, I doubt there are any "regional towns" that need a light rail line. Our other main cities on the other hand...

Have you been to Cork, Limerick or Galway and tried to get anywhere?

mike65

Light rail is for 500,000 up. Don't see how one can justify the capital investment otherwise.

Mike.

Idbatterim

ok, one line in cork, galway, limerick or wherever it is, is only going to serve a small amount of the city, take dublins green line, it only serves a tiny amount of the city, you need a network of lines realisticly. The other big problem with light rail lines is they will cause a huge amount of disruption to the narrow Irish street, if the luas is built around college green, Dublin bus are screwed and they know it! What I am saying is before Id put in a light rail line, it put in some sort of bus network first! Its must cheaper, more flexible, and can be delivered now! how many years would it take to get a luas built in Limerick or Cork etc, and my comment about them being towns is accurate, Id just about call Dublin a city...

mike65

Note: City/Town nomenclature indicates status not size.

Mike.

Calina

I find the simplistic tone of these debates frightening to be honest. In most cities in Europe with a comprehensive and functional public transport network - not usually provided by private operators either - there is an understanding that it need not be an either/or situation.

In other words, saying "put money into buses first it's cheaper" is not an intelligent response per se. It pays no attention to long term development options, for example, it is purely the saving of a penny to spend pounds and pounds down the line.

Both Cork and Limerick to some extent would probably benefit from some sort of a tram system, even allowing for the issues with the layout of the street system in Cork. Such a system should - be definition - be integrated with a complementary bus system. Making them fight against each other for funding and passengers is the sort of high class idiocy that seems to be so prevalent in this country.

Get public transport systems working together rather than against each other and possibly this country might have some local public transport systems that work. Additionally, integrate planning for said systems with other urban development and we might not be the urban development laughing stock of Europe.

I suppose it's too much to ask for.

jank

+1

bk

Calina, we are not saying that it is a either/or thing. What we are saying is that for the cost of just one tram line, that would serve just one city, you could vastly improve the bus service in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford.

For the cost of just one tram line you would be able to triple or even quadruple the number of buses in all these cities. In conjunction with RTPI, bus lanes and more efficient operator practises you could absolutely revolutionise public transport in these cities.

I'm not saying that trams shouldn't be introduced at some stage in the future. But the population size where trams becomes necessary is typically around 500,000 and these cities are nowhere near that. Of course we should plan for trams in these cities by defining where the tram might go in the future and retaining the space for the line and promoting the building of high density along the route. But it just doesn't make sense yet.

I'm saying all this as a Corkonian now living in Dublin. I've experienced how dreadful the Cork bus service, completely overcrowded at peak times with no spare capacity, totally infrequent and unreliable off peak. However in comparison Dublin Bus is actually quiet good and efficient in comparison.

If even a DB style service was implemented in Cork (and I assume the other cities) then you really would see a revolution in public transport in Cork and trams probably wouldn't be necessary for about another 20 years or so.

It is not a simple either/or thing, it is about how to spend a limited amount of money with maximum impact. Lets me honest, where not going to be able to afford to build 6 trams lines (assuming 2 across Cork, Limerick, Galway). We can probably afford one. I'd rather the money be spent across a high quality bus service for all the cities, rather then some white elephant in just one city.

bk

Actually what bothers me most about all this, is this is just a smoke screen to cover up how little investment in public transport these cities are getting. They are trying to distract people with shiny new trams and unfortunately it looks like it is working.

Tram lines won't be built for at least 10 years (everything already planned for under T21) and probably more likely 20 years. However you could revolutionise the bus services in the morning with just a fraction of the investment in buses.

Instead they want us to be distracted by some dream of trams in cork while we surfer on with a completely insufficient and poor bus service for the next 20 years.

murphaph

Zoney wrote: »

I agree, I doubt there are any "regional towns" that need a light rail line. Our other main cities on the other hand...

Have you been to Cork, Limerick or Galway and tried to get anywhere?

But sure is there not an anti-public transport agenda held by many citizens of Limerick? Isn't there big opposition to bus lanes? the irish people in general are not bit PT users, prefering gridlock in their cars.

bk

murphaph wrote: »

But sure is there not an anti-public transport agenda held by many citizens of Limerick? Isn't there big opposition to bus lanes? the irish people in general are not bit PT users, prefering gridlock in their cars.

It is a checking and egg thing. Because PT is so awful in these cities and so undependable, then people will take the car instead.

Honestly I think that the first move needs to be taken by the government and bus companies, far more buses, more frequent, double deckers, more efficient, etc. and once people see it improving, then people will be more willing to see bus lanes, etc.

Poxyshamrock

In my opinion, Limerick doesn't need Light rail...all it need is a good bus service where the buses run on time, staff that care about driving and not about some food from Centra on William St, a few bus lanes that work and a more frequent service.

Zoney

murphaph wrote: »

But sure is there not an anti-public transport agenda held by many citizens of Limerick? Isn't there big opposition to bus lanes? the irish people in general are not bit PT users, prefering gridlock in their cars.

A handful of well-off residents and businessmen, along with pet councillors, are the main opposition to bus lanes on the main three bus throughfares.

spacetweek

Zoney wrote: »

A handful of well-off residents and businessmen, along with pet councillors, are the main opposition to bus lanes on the main three bus throughfares.

But I don't get it - why would they be against bus lanes? Surely improved public transport benefits them?

Victor

Because they / their pet customers won't be able to park outside the shop.

Zoney

Victor wrote: »

Because they / their pet customers won't be able to park outside the shop.

And in the case of many residents along the route, they'd have to park their cars in their driveways or access their garages at the rear of their properties via access laneways. What an effort.