Landlord looking for no lease.....

bobnumber1

Wondering if anyone could offer some advice here..
I've been dealing with a letting agency & i have been approached with the offer of a property thats 400 less a month if i dont claim rent relief of sign a lease.
The reason for this is because the landlord wants to sell the house next year but doesnt want to be hit with extra stamp duty for the house being a rental.
This is a good deal as it's a good house in a good location.
What protection would i have with this landlord regarding tenancy rights, deposit etc.
Either way we would have eachother over a barrel if anything went wrong (i wouldnt be signing a lease & they dont want to have rental income exposed)
Advice would be appreciated....
Also please note, this is only an idea in the wind, nothing on paper so to speak as of yet.

homah_7ft

I wouldn't go for that personally. It sounds messy. Technically you would still be covered by the basic tenancy legislation. Are you happy with being given notice to leave after a couple of weeks? Certain leases can protect you from this. The landlord might be reluctant to follow other areas of tenancy law. You could find out you don't have them over as much as a barrel as you think.

Ste.phen

Don't forget you can claim rent relief *after* you move out. Keep records of when you pay rent, and how, just in case

Kipperhell

I'd report the agency and the landlord for the suggestion of tax fraud. This isn't a clever loophole but straight forward fraud.

Ste.phen

I'd move in, take the good price, then when i move out claim the rent relief and let the Revenue do the rest

starky

Igy wrote: »

I'd move in, take the good price, then when i move out claim the rent relief and let the Revenue do the rest

Lol, bring down the letting agency’s! I like it.

I have to say I am shocked that a letting agency would be engaging in this kind of behaviour. You would expect this from an amateur landlord alright, they type we all know and loath on this site, the retired ould fella thinking its still the 1980’s who calls around for the rent every week, and collects it from all the individual tenants. Then he goes and puts it in the post office ;-)
Although it does seem like a great deal, this is highly illegal on loads of levels, that would bother me, but probably not everybody.

You will not really have any rights and the owner of the property will eventually get caught out for tax evasion. I reckon we are going to be hearing more stories like this as the amateur investors scramble to pay the banks back.

SerialComplaint

Igy wrote: »

I'd move in, take the good price, then when i move out claim the rent relief and let the Revenue do the rest

Great advice. Follow this up with a call to the Prime Time Investigates team to give them some extra material for their next special on Estate Agents.

A Random Walk

I'd do what Igy suggested. I would sign nothing but would verbally agree. You are protected by basic tenancy legislation anyway and can still claim the tax relief - you don't need the landlords PRSI number. You pay tax on your income, if he wants to evade tax on his income it's not your problem if he gets caught.

Persius

As long as you get a written receipt for your deposit you're OK. You'll be protected by basic tennancy law anyway, but you have to be aware that you could be asked to leave at any time with just one month's notice. If you'd signed a year lease, then the landlord couldn't do that.

There's no law saying you have to have a lease, so you're not breaking any by not having one. Make sure you get the landlord's current address, and you can always claim your rental relief after you move out. The landlord is really just being stupid if he expects to get away with it.

Edit, and if you pay the rent in cash, make sure you get a written receipt for that as well.

The_Conductor

What you are proposing is fraud, plain and simple.
The landlord is being upfront and telling you that he intends to evade tax, and is seeking your complicity in the matter by offering you a financial inducement to take him up on his offer.

Regardless of whether you have a lease or not, you are covered by basic tenancy rights- however as pointed out earlier in this thread- you could be asked to leave with little or no notice.

If/when the Revenue Commissioners catch up on the Landlords dodgy dealings- penalties and fines will not be limited to tax on the non-declared income. You could actually be found to be complicit in the transaction if it were determined that you were renting the property at below "fair market value"- which the inspector would attempt to quantify on his/her own accord. So- you yourself could find that your great deal from the landlord was not such a good deal afterall.

I seriously advise that you report the letting agency and landlord to the PRTB in the first instance- and if you intend to take up this offer- get legal advice and tax advice for yourself before doing so.

There are no freebies in life- if something seems too good to be true- inevitably it is.

Persius

smccarrick wrote: »

...If/when the Revenue Commissioners catch up on the Landlords dodgy dealings- penalties and fines will not be limited to tax on the non-declared income. You could actually be found to be complicit in the transaction if it were determined that you were renting the property at below "fair market value"- which the inspector would attempt to quantify on his/her own accord. So- you yourself could find that your great deal from the landlord was not such a good deal afterall...

On what grounds do you think the tenant could be held culpable for a landlord trying to dodge tax? The only tenant obligation I'm aware of in this regard is when the landlord resides outside the jurisdiction. Then the tenant (or an agent of the Landlord in the jurisdiction) is supposed to withhold a portion of the rent for the Revenue Commisioners.

AFAIK this doesn't apply here, and the responsibility to pay tax on rental income is entirely with the landlord. Specific legislation was passed regarding accountants and solicitors, but I'm unaware of tenants being obliged to ensure landlord's tax compliance.

And as for 'renting the property at below "fair market value" ', well if the landlord stated that he intended to sell soon anyway, then that would be a fair reason for receiving cheap rent.

daveirl

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