New SKY marketing policy letter

Hoagy

I read this in the Tribune.

They put a letter in with the Sky magazine. Does anyone actually read it?

Anyway, be warned, unless you want a load more junk mail, you have to ring them up.

Tony

Disgraceful behavior by sky

dmeehan

i never read anything that comes with the sky mag, the whole lot goes straight in the bin

VERYinterested

Me too, including the magazine! Annoying to think that we pay for that mag, is it €2.50 on our sub? I do have a quick read of the covering letter to see if any sneaky price rises are included each month, so I saw the note about this, easily buried piece of paper. Rang them and told them to exclude me, hope they face some sanction under the data protection act.

watty

I shall threaten to cancel.

They are breaking UK, EU and Irish law.

mburke

Rang Sky about this last night and they told me that I was not included in this new marketing drive don't exactly know why not but am glad I'm not included.

superfly

whats the number to ring for this?

grumpytrousers

suppose the things to do are

a) hold off opting out for a month or so.
b) collect a months worth of junkmail
c) express interest in every service/product offered
d) give your name as the bloke whose name is at the bottom of the marketing letter alluded to earlier
e) sit back as you consider that twat in marketing getting loads of offers of loans/cars/ornamental toilet seats etc

cgarvey

I read it by pure chance. Sneaky tactics alright. They've obviously had a few calls about it already, as there's dedicated IVR prompts for that letter now!

What laws are they breaking though?

watty

ring 0818 719 819

Opt out of everything.
Your need account code (front of Sky main 1 page letter), your name, DOB and address.

You can also cancel getting the Magasine

cgarvey

superfly wrote: »

whats the number to ring for this?

0818 719 819 (options 1, then 6)

watty

cgarvey wrote: »

I read it by pure chance. Sneaky tactics alright. They've obviously had a few calls about it already, as there's dedicated IVR prompts for that letter now!

What laws are they breaking though?

You can't automatically opt people IN to have all their details given to 3rd parties on an already running or cancelled contract. That does break Data Protection laws in Ireland, UK and most EU.

Especially long after point when they made contract. People have to be made aware and offered choice when signing up.

grumpytrousers

on a point of principle...

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=r&fn=/documents/complaint/default.asp

c'mon lads - fill it in!

pzurdo

"You can also cancel getting the Magasine"

Question on this: when I rang this morning I asked about this also and was told that even it I chose not to get the mag. my bill would not be reduced by €3 (see small print on page 71 - it's the alleged charge for the useless mag). Does anyone have further experience on this issue and have they had success in having sub. reduced to reflect not receiving the mag? I certainly don't want this rubbish tabloidesque publication and certainly not if I am paying for it. It also makes me laugh when sky certify themselves as "cabon neutral" when they spew out crap like their voluminous subscribe mag to over a million homes in UK/Ireland!

Anyone challenged the €3 "charge" successfully?
Cheers.

silverski

pzurdo wrote: »

"You can also cancel getting the Magasine"

Question on this: when I rang this morning I asked about this also and was told that even it I chose not to get the mag. my bill would not be reduced by €3 (see small print on page 71 - it's the alleged charge for the useless mag). Does anyone have further experience on this issue and have they had success in having sub. reduced to reflect not receiving the mag? I certainly don't want this rubbish tabloidesque publication and certainly not if I am paying for it. It also makes me laugh when sky certify themselves as "cabon neutral" when they spew out crap like their voluminous subscribe mag to over a million homes in UK/Ireland!

Anyone challenged the €3 "charge" successfully?
Cheers.

I was told that the mag was free and there would be no reduction in my charge from SKY, but if I choose to cancel the mag I would not be informed of any price increases.

I mentioned that some people recieve letters, and was told that those people are on different subscriptions.

I eventually got the person in sky to change to recieving the letter.
They were not very helpful with this issue.
No hint of an apology.

Just think of those poor souls who do not read www.board.ie and just throw the mag in the bin.
By the way when I mentioned that the mag just goes straight in the bin when I recieve it, thge person seems very dissapointed saying that it(The Mag) was very useful, full of information etc.

Regards
Silverski

Geemac

I e-mailed them to have this matter sorted out. This is their reply.
:mad:
Customer Account Number: ************

Thank you for your email regarding your Sky account.

I have requested for your details not be passed on by Marketing Contributions Ltd to any other company outside the Sky Group.

However, I wish to confirm that it can take approximately eight weeks for the details to be removed from our mailing list. Please be assured however that this will happen.

Should you require further assistance, please contact me at the email address above.

Kind regards

Tyson Barretto
Customer Relations

8 weeks in this age to give you back a basic right of privacy - did you ever?

cgarvey

watty wrote: »

You can't automatically opt people IN to have all their details given to 3rd parties on an already running or cancelled contract.

Of course you can, as long as you give them the option to opt out, which is what this letter is doing. I think you mean existing customers who have opted out? If so, then these are unaffected (as confirmed by the new IVR prompts as well). Automatic opt-in is perfectly acceptable, as far as I'm aware.

EDIT: I'm not defending the sneaky tactics, just the legality!

grumpytrousers

i think that the problem here is that Sky are unilaterally changing the Ts&Cs of the contract we signed up for. In other words, on the first application form or whatever, there's a box you either tick or you don't and that's all good. But from what I gather (and i'm more than happy to be put right on this) it seems that they're riding roughshod over that and effectively saying 'well - you wanted to opt out, but we're actually changing that, and passing on the details anyway, but you can ring us (at your expense) to say you don't want this)

and that's the crux of it. There are certain unilateral changes that any company will make and we don't complain, or we shouldn't anyway. It's the fact that this is

a) unilateral
b) seemingly teeting over the legality fine-line
c) (and worst IMHO) was communicated to the customer base in an A5 letter stuck inside the magazine beside the Golden Snowflake competition and the Permanent TSB mortgage flier.

Actually, the more i think about (c) above, the more riled i get. I mean, okay, let's leave aside the fact that the magazine is a load of execrebal heft and suppose that you do pick it up to read. Once the plastic wrapper comes off, you might give a cursory glance to the letter accompanying it. But the fliers within the magazine?

absolutely not. And that's sharp practise that is...

the more i think of it, the more we should ALL be complaining to the data protection commissioner - and mention the letter being stuffed in the way it was!

watty

cgarvey wrote: »

Of course you can, as long as you give them the option to opt out, which is what this letter is doing. I think you mean existing customers who have opted out? If so, then these are unaffected (as confirmed by the new IVR prompts as well). Automatic opt-in is perfectly acceptable, as far as I'm aware.

EDIT: I'm not defending the sneaky tactics, just the legality!

You don't get the letter unless you are an existing customer (that has already chosen to opt in or opt out).

If you did opt out originally you should not get the letter at all, as you can't be opted in automatically after choosing.

It should not be a small insert with the normal marketing letter.

Even if by some quirk this is all legal, it's badly done. The new IVR does not 100% agree with my reading of the letter, perhaps they are back peddling already.

MickH503

grumpytrousers wrote: »

on a point of principle...

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=r&fn=/documents/complaint/default.asp

c'mon lads - fill it in!

DONE!

When I phoned Sky, the bloke was polite and was surprised to hear about the €3 for the magizine ... he had to go off and ask someone else and came back and said I wouldn't get a reduction of €3 and could write to customer care for clarification if I desired!!! He said he was going to go home tonight to check his magazine and see if he could get a reduction!

byte

MickH503 wrote: »

DONE!

When I phoned Sky, the bloke was polite and was surprised to hear about the €3 for the magizine ... he had to go off and ask someone else and came back and said I wouldn't get a reduction of €3 and could write to customer care for clarification if I desired!!! He said he was going to go home tonight to check his magazine and see if he could get a reduction!

I thought Sky CS got Sky free as a job perk? Maybe only certain departments, excluding front line CS.

JohnC.

Couldn't help but think of this when a story came on Sky News this morning warning about companies selling customers details to third parties. Strangely, there was no mention of this particular case...

mike2084

Got this this evening appears to be a stock answer.

Dear Mr Walsh

Customer Account Number: ***************

Thank you for your email regarding your Sky account.

I am sorry if this is has caused you any inconvenience however, I have now removed your details from any existing marketing projects.

Furthermore, I can confirm that we have also amended the indicator on your Sky Account that you no longer require this service. This may take up to 30 days for all areas of the business or lists already in place to be updated so in the meantime you may still receive calls, letters or emails. Please bear with us during this transitional period.

Should you require further assistance in the meantime, do not hesitate to contact us on the details shown.

Yours sincerely

Vidhi Jajal
Customer Relations

MFZ

dmeehan wrote: »

i never read anything that comes with the sky mag, the whole lot goes straight in the bin

I don't even get a magazine.

MickH503

MFZ wrote: »

I don't even get a magazine.

Did you get the letter?

Tomk1

What about Ex-sky users, they have my details can they use that?
With all this Data-?protection infringments can I get my old account details removed from sky.

Just another way for Sky to make money from you even though they are the most expensive Sat-tv supplier in Europe.
I don't know what the current cost is any more but in excess of 350E a year for the basic package was enough to put me off.

They must be breking the Law.
Best of luck with that,
...Tomk1

DMC

Victory for the small guy...

Data Protection Notice
http://www.sky.com/portal/site/ireland/products/article?contentid=2257910

Recent Data Protection Notice in the December issue of Sky magazine

Sky takes its obligations under data protection law seriously and it is important to us that our customers' privacy is respected.

We recently enclosed a letter headed "Important Information - Notice of changes to how we use your information" with the Sky customer magazine (Skymag). The notice advised customers who consent to marketing of some changes to the text of our data protection wording. These changes were intended to clarify customers' existing terms, including how they may opt-out of marketing.

This has regrettably caused some confusion. We are asking that you disregard that notification and consider it withdrawn. We will review our data protection notice in conjunction with our advisors and the data protection authorities. In due course, if appropriate, we will issue a revised notification in a future edition of Skymag.

We would like to reassure all customers that no changes have been made to any pre-existing preferences and if you had previously told us that you want to opt-out, this remains the case. Customers who do not receive Skymag remain subject to their existing contract terms and are unaffected by these notices.

We understand that the issue of how personal data are used is a very important one. If you have any concerns, wish to update your marketing preferences or wish to access and amend the information we hold about you please do not hesitate to contact us at dpoffice@bskyb.com or write to us at:

Sky Ireland,
Alexandra House,
Earlsfort Terrace,
Dublin 2

Or call us on 0818 719 819.

Not out of the woods just yet, they may make further changes as this notice states. So keep 'em peeled.

watty

!!! Brill !!!

It just proves it *is* worth making a fuss.

Hoagy

Looks like Sky's UK subscribers haven't done quite so well.

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/mysky/article?contentid=2257810

byte

Yeah, have sent an email to that dpoffice address to make sure I'm not on any data-sharing list. Don't want my NI address sponsor getting bombarded with crap

watty

Your complaint was one of
a high number we received on this issue and I wish to thank you for
bringing the matter to our attention.

I am pleased to inform you that following extensive communications with
this Office where the full rights granted to Irish citizens were pointed
out to Sky and the legal remedies available to the Commissioner should
those rights be breached, Sky Ireland has withdrawn this notice issued with
the December edition of the Sky Magazine, thus ensuring that your data
protection rights have not been adversely affected. Sky has further
committed to issuing a revised notice to customers in the February edition
of the Sky Magazine which will be published in January and to fully
engaging with this Office in relation to its content.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=576&m=f

It's worth complaining *IN WRITING* to the appropriate people.

I can think of a lot of Advertising that should be stopped!

silverski

watty wrote: »

It's worth complaining *IN WRITING* to the appropriate people.

I can think of a lot of Advertising that should be stopped!

I also recieved an email from the data protection Commissioner.

Let hope this helps.

regards
silverski

Couch Potato

silverski wrote: »

I also recieved an email from the data protection Commissioner.

Let hope this helps.

regards
silverski

Got my e-mail from Data Commissioner this morning also.

Maybe Sky should in the next letter tell each customer whether or not they have opted in/out of the Marketing Communication Lists and even provide this as a setting that can managed over the web by the subscriber ?

I am still waiting to hear back from them what way my account is setup.

MFZ

MickH503 wrote: »

Did you get the letter?

Nope.

Deacon Blues

It seems that complaining to an organisation like Sky is useless. They aren't interested in customer service, but just go through the motions.

I've often wondered whether it would be better to go to the source. Certain "reputable" companies use the mag for advertising, such as for mortgage advertising etc.

How about complaining to the advertisers about the methods that their agents are using on their behalf. If a few high profile advertisers could be persuaded to pull their account, it would hit $ky in the wallet, which would provide much more focus on what their customers want and expect from them.

Of course, this would only work with advertisers who care about their reputation, and not with some of the other junk that we get.

JDxtra

Surprised Sky tried this stunt, especially since they got pulled up before from the Irish data protection commissioner…

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=461

Padraig Mor

I got a new "clearer" policy with my Sky mag the other day. Seems to be the exact same thing, just worded differently TBH.

Hoagy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I got a new "clearer" policy with my Sky mag the other day. Seems to be the exact same thing, just worded differently TBH.

So it seems, automatically opt-in unless told otherwise. Another slew of complaints needed.