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The big 4 are top but where will they finish?

  • 03-12-2007 10:52AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭


    1:Arsenal: 14 games, 36 points
    2:Chelsea: 15 games, 31 points
    3:Liverpool: 14 games, 30 points
    4:Manchester: 14 games, 30 points

    Arsenal doing very well, Chelsea putting a decent run together, Liverpool looking really strong and Man U are at their usual tricks bar a blip against Bolton.

    What order will they finish in and why?

    I'm reckoning either Arsenal/Liverpool or Liverpool/Arsenal - followed by Man U 3rd and Chelsea 4th.

    Reasoning is that Liverpool are really looking strong at the moment. They also finish well. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually was their year(finally!!).

    I put Chelsea in fourth because they basically don't look as good as the other three at the moment and the African nations will take out some really important players.


«13

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    I think it will come down to us(liverpool) and Arsenal for the top 2. As you said, we have been strong finishers for the last 3-4 years but our start had always ruined our chances before we even got to christmas. I predicted Arsenal would win it back in June/July(just after they sold Henry), im not too sure anymore though. They are grinding out results at the moment, id like to see how they react after a league defeat.

    Oh and the reason i dont think Chelsea and United will be there is because this is a transition year for Chelsea(they'll be back even stronger next year) and United are way too reliant on Rooney and Ronaldo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭kida


    Melion wrote: »
    United are way too reliant on Rooney and Ronaldo.

    lol - Torres/Gerrard


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    kida wrote: »
    lol - Torres/Gerrard

    We can win games without them and our game doesnt change too much when Gerrard doesnt play. United looked clueless against Bolton last week when those 2 were missing, and the same thing at the start of the year when they were both missing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Never ever read too much into one game. If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal. That said, at this stage I could see either United or Chelsea catching them. As for Liverpool, I just don't think they'll put together a run of 6-7 wins in a row at least twice which is required to win the league. So far their biggest run is 3 in a row, which is up to now. By Christmas, I think they'll still be up there, but I expect them to drop behind United/Arsenal/Chelsea, but only by about 3-6 points. City, Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games. If they come through those 5 games ahead of United and Chelsea, I'd say they'd be a good bet with Arsenal. That said, they have a viciously harsh run of games at the end of the year, like the last 8 is really tough.

    Arsenal are an interesting one, and where the real issue is. They play each game like it's huge (which is how you win leagues) and are coming through some really tough tests in terms of injuries. Their deciding time will be Chelsea, Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth.

    Do you think it's possible the league this year will be decided based on how the 4op do against the top 4? It's looking that tight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    PHB wrote: »
    Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games.

    Portsmouth have a real bitch of a run until Christmas. Then it gets better but they lose 249 players to the African Nations.

    Time for some fantasy football substutions methinks.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭SectionF


    The big four will finish on top.
    If they don't, and a proper club like Portsmouth or Villa sneak in, then something will have to be done to restore investor confidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Cynic! The top 4 will be the top 4 so yes business as usual but there will be no chasm within the top 4 or between them and the UEFA cup places. Could be a bit like the Championship was last season, with 8/9 teams in with a serious shout of a place in Europe.

    Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd neck and neck with Chelsea forth.

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    PHB wrote: »
    Never ever read too much into one game. If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal. That said, at this stage I could see either United or Chelsea catching them. As for Liverpool, I just don't think they'll put together a run of 6-7 wins in a row at least twice which is required to win the league. So far their biggest run is 3 in a row, which is up to now. By Christmas, I think they'll still be up there, but I expect them to drop behind United/Arsenal/Chelsea, but only by about 3-6 points. City, Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games. If they come through those 5 games ahead of United and Chelsea, I'd say they'd be a good bet with Arsenal. That said, they have a viciously harsh run of games at the end of the year, like the last 8 is really tough.

    Arsenal are an interesting one, and where the real issue is. They play each game like it's huge (which is how you win leagues) and are coming through some really tough tests in terms of injuries. Their deciding time will be Chelsea, Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth.

    Do you think it's possible the league this year will be decided based on how the 4op do against the top 4? It's looking that tight.

    reading(A),united(h),Pompey(H),derby(a),City(a),wigan(h),Boro(a),Villa(H),west ham(a)sunderland(h) are liverpools next 10 league games and 25 points is more than possible.Other than united and city thats not a tough run of games


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭yom 1


    raven136 wrote: »
    reading(A),united(h),Pompey(H),derby(a),City(a),wigan(h),Boro(a),Villa(H),west ham(a)sunderland(h) are liverpools next 10 league games and 25 points is more than possible.Other than united and city thats not a tough run of games

    I dont think its as easy a run of games as you think. Utd, Portsmouth, City and Villa are tough games. All of them are in the top 7 at the moment. However if we do come through that run of games with 25/30 points i'd be extremely happy and think we would be sitting pretty going into the second half of the season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Melion wrote: »
    We can win games without them and our game doesnt change too much when Gerrard doesnt play. United looked clueless against Bolton last week when those 2 were missing, and the same thing at the start of the year when they were both missing.

    Nonsense, Liverpool have also looked clueless without Torres this season. How many times has he saved Liverpool and turned what might of been a draw into a comfortable last 10/20 mins?

    I'd go for Man Utd/Arsenal for 1st and 2nd, Chelsea 3rd and then Liverpool 4th. Still too hard to say at this stage though


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    I still think United will win it but I can't decide who I think will finish 2nd to 4th. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out; I can't remember a PL title race shaping up like this in recent memory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Nonsense, Liverpool have also looked clueless without Torres this season. How many times has he saved Liverpool and turned what might of been a draw into a comfortable last 10/20 mins?

    I'd go for Man Utd/Arsenal for 1st and 2nd, Chelsea 3rd and then Liverpool 4th. Still too hard to say at this stage though

    Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    1.Arsenal
    2.Man Utd
    3.Chelsea
    4.Liverpool

    Arseanl look the part.

    Man Utd won't win it cause they'll be concentrating even harder on Champions League.

    And Chelsea will beat Liverpool because the latter are just going through a temporary good patch at the moment an will have a few slip-ups before the end.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Tusky wrote: »
    Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas.


    Fair enough good win, but lets face it Besiktas didn't put up a fight at all.

    3 games Liverpool struggled to win the game

    Liverpool 0-0 Birmingam

    Blackburn 0-0 Liverpool

    Liverpool 2-0 Fulham

    Torres played 30 mins against Brum, didn't play at all against Blackburn, didn't come on till 70 mins against Fulham. Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,591 ✭✭✭✭cson


    The whole Torres/Gerrard - Rooney/Ronaldo debate is meaningless imo. If you take the best players out of any team it is obviously going to hurt them. And personally I'd rate the defence of both teams more important, what if Pool lose Carragher? Or Man Utd lose Vidic?

    Bear in mind Arsenal are losing a huge player in Kolo Toure for the ANC. Which is why I can't see us winning it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭kaimera


    Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player

    As do Utd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    kaimera wrote: »
    As do Utd.

    Never denied that, was not having Liverpool are all rosey without Gerrard and Torres when they clearly aren't


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭yahoo_moe


    cson wrote: »
    If you take the best players out of any team it is obviously going to hurt them.
    Exactly - and rightly so. Options are great but any fan should be worried if you don't have a few players that you really miss. That's why winning the title takes a bit of luck with injuries, etc. too and why I'm sitting on the fence with this one - it's still too early to tell imo.

    Really don't know how they'll finish but could be a cracker of a season if all 4 teams can maintain realistic challenges till March


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    just noting that all the talk of pools tough games still to come,have we not played arsenal,chelsea,blackburn,pompey,everton and villa already and are still unbeaten.it is shaping up to be a great 2nd half of the season but will the anc not really affect chelsea


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,121 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    raven136 wrote: »
    just noting that all the talk of pools tough games still to come,have we not played arsenal,chelsea,blackburn,pompey,everton and villa already and are still unbeaten.it is shaping up to be a great 2nd half of the season but will the anc not really affect chelsea

    They'll lose their two best players: Essien and Drogba.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    They'll lose their two best players: Essien and Drogba.

    Couldn't agree with this more. Arsenal may be able to rely heavily on their attack and handle a few games without Kolo but these two players are absolutly irreplacable for Chelsea. Shorn of Drogba, Essien (and Mikel??) they will have zero steel in their midfield and attack. If they expect to challenge they need to make some serious signings in Janurary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Fair enough good win, but lets face it Besiktas didn't put up a fight at all.

    3 games Liverpool struggled to win the game

    Liverpool 0-0 Birmingam

    Blackburn 0-0 Liverpool

    Liverpool 2-0 Fulham

    Torres played 30 mins against Brum, didn't play at all against Blackburn, didn't come on till 70 mins against Fulham. Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player

    I agree with you. Torres is definitely important to Liverpool but I dont think we are completely clueless or whatever way you put it, without him, and was just using the fact that a team without Torres broke the champions league record for goals scored in a game. Regardless of opposition,that is impressive.

    If you take Gerrard & Torres out of the Liverpool team we will struggle for goals. If you take Rooney & Ronaldo out of utd they will struggle. Van Persie & Fabregas, Drogba & Lampard....etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    PHB wrote: »
    If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal.
    I still think United will win it

    Whats going on? :D

    What ever happened to confidence!?*

    *I think the Liverpool fans stole it


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    liverpool are clueless when they're missing torres only if they are also missing people who set things in motion, like kewell who's delivery would probably help kuyt and voronin and crouch alot more, because in fairness none of those 3 have had consistent quality service, kewell stays fit and liverpool win the league.
    for me utd 2nd arse 3rd chelsea 4th.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,422 ✭✭✭Doodee


    I think Villa prooved this at the weekend, Arsenal Need Hleb and Toure fit if they are going to challenge for the title. Villa took them apart in the second half when they weren't allowed to play their football, and thats been seen before with other club.
    With Hleb fit they are unbelievable, his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.

    Chelsea are beatable this season, they just dont appear as glued as they once were. They should be beating teams with 2 and 3 goal leads, not just 1-0's

    Liverpool are playing fairly well, but they do lack a good alternative striker to Torres, and as for gerrard, well being a villa fan and having seen what he did with the ref Vs Everton, I'll accept the onslaught of abuse by calling him a ****ebag (and no, that has nothing to do with his skill as a player, he's just a tosser).

    If Man Utd re-gain their form after christmas, I think they are going to challenge for the title. It will be Man Utd and Arsenal challenging for no.1 position as both are lethal on the counter attack.

    I can't say who will finish 3/4th but Chelsea or Liverpool will take one of those positions.
    I also wouldn't rule out one of the clubs that are just behind them finishing in the top 4, we all know its possible. Season is still very close :D


    Up the Villains!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    Doodee wrote: »
    his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.

    Pah, 97.5% more like.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Doodee wrote: »
    With Hleb fit they are unbelievable, his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.
    It was 98% I think actually, 39/40 passes. It is good to see Hleb getting recognition all the same.
    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    Whats going on? :D

    What ever happened to confidence!?*

    *I think the Liverpool fans stole it
    I tend to go for what you know*. Arsenal are playing very well at the moment but I don't think they'll go from being a 4th place team to 1st place team in one season.

    Arsenal's first XI is superb (bar Almunia, who is a decent keeper but no more), but the squad is soft in the wide midfield positions and at centreback, and perhaps in attack too. At the start of the season I was expecting Arsenal to finish 3rd or 4th behind Chelsea and Man United (in that order), and while Chelsea's implosion leads me to think that 2nd is a possibility, my views on the overall quality of the squads hasn't changed.

    I fancy Arsenal's chances of winning the 08/09 title, but this season will be too soon.

    * Yes, I am a BSG geek.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    What do people reckon about the fact that United won it last year?

    Is the hunger apparent enough?

    It's very hard to lift teams, particularly young teams, to achieve year after year. I know Fergie's the absolute master at this but the premiership was never as competitive when they won 2 in a row before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I don't think it's Uniteds lack of hunger this year that's effecting them. It's actually United are getting injuries in the one area that they don't have much depth, and that's up front. Saha hasn't returned to his form from last season, probably (actually hopefully) due to match fitness. Rooney has been in and out. If Rooney had been fit so far this season, there's no doubt in my mind United would be top. If Rooney can stay fit this season, there's little doubt for me that United can win the league. However, that's a problematic way to go. As such, I think we'll see some striker brought in in January.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Liverpool clueless without Torres?

    Nobody likes thinking about Crouch I take it.

    Liverpool have no chance of winning the league.. no sir.. hey what's that over there?? Yes, look, over there... no stop looking over here.. stoppit.


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