BMW E30325i Sport vs. E36 M3 evo

killerbeekilled

Your opinions much appreciated.

My brother is looking to purchase either or, so i said i would help him out, and post this thread...

Anybody got any opinions, good, bad or indifferent, expert, or just any general advice feel free to say something, if at the very least, which one would you go for.:D

The car is going to be used as a weekend car, so its not going.

My own feeling is to stick to something original, and stay away from the modified, the tuned alpinas and conversions and the like.

My guess also is that although the 325i sport i more of a lassic, the e36 m3 looks a safer car, onlymy opinion, s notspeaking from experience. Also, searching on youtube for any 325i sprt....all the videos are 'donut videos' which to be honest,not the reason my brother is getting it, much more of a cruise, or take it to the track or something.


Opinions appreciated.

mike65

I'd go for the E30 every time. Its a modern classic whereas the E36 is a bit "Thrashed Irish Yuppiemobile" at this stage. The trick as you note is to find an original example. They are out there.

Mike.

Rowley Birkin QC

Dunno mike, you would be very lucky to find a clean 325i at this stage. The "yoof" of Ireland have killed off most of the good ones at this stage I reckon.

M3 Evo's are too expensive to fix IMO to have been thrashed around the crossroads. Something primeval about the attraction to the M3 badge too, for me anyways.

Thats my two cents anyways, best o luck in the hunt.

E92

bigkev49 wrote: »

Dunno mike, you would be very lucky to find a clean 325i at this stage. The "yoof" of Ireland have killed off most of the good ones at this stage I reckon.

Indeed they or should I say we have, I haven't seen a fully original E30 in yonks, never mind a 325i. Any 6 pot E30 seems to have been modified, and while I normally don't have a problem with modified cars, I think on a car as rare as an E30 its a pity that that there are so few nice unmolested ones left. I know if I were buying an E30 in the morning, I would leave it completely original, bar the stero of course, tape players are stone age! That said, here is a nice E30, pity about the gear knob though(the BMW one looks a million times better anyway), it looks perfect apart from that, even though the mileage is scarily low for a 20 year old car. Here is an even nicer E30, although its a Baur top, which is not everyone's cup of tea, and neither are the colour and gearbox.

bucks

Plenty of clean 325i E30's out there provided you are willing to pay and know where to buy.

The UK is where i would be going, check out the likes of the for sale forum on www.e30zone.co.uk

unkel

I'm with bigkev on this one. I'd make sure to buy one from an enthousiast with lots of history

Armin_Tamzarian

BMW e36 M3 Evo

I know where there's a mint E30 M3 Hartge that'd probably be let go for €20,000 - €25,000, now that's a car.
Tell your brother to buy that.

SunSetting

Hey guys,

I have a 325i Covert and personaly my choice would be to go for the E30.....the engine(M20) is a fine solid block and has given me no major probs (gasket and usual oil seals). Its got 150k on the clock and I have had the car for 11 years and use it most days.

The best thing in my opinion (besides looks is that the E30 is fairly simple to keep repairs up on, parts are plentyful and interior parts are easy enough to come by on E-Bay. There are little in the way of troublesome sensors and onboard computers (there is a unit for the fuel injection) and you can buy the tool for resetting the dash lights etc. If you know an old timer mechanic who will look after the car for you then you are flying!!!
The key with the E30 is really good oil, good quality petrol ( I run it on super once a month to give it a cleaning....)

Downside....in my experience its not the most comfortable car on the road and the suspension (non modifed) picks up ever bump. On a smooth road its a fine car. Also for some reason when the car gives trouble theres a domino effect, then there would not be a cherp out of it for a year or two and so on....... There not very fuel efficent....if fact there not efficent!!! And compared to modern cars are not the fastest either compared to some of the smaller engined cars that whizz off.....has anyone driven a Starlet 1.3???? Christ there quick

To be fair, I am not knocking the E30 and I love them, they are a car of the 80s and thats what you get......80s, so you dont buy one for the latest in handling etc etc.....they are a drivers car and you have to keep a tight grip on the reins.....

I would tend to think the decent E30s dont come up for sale often, however i have seen many a fine one for sale at Vintage / Classic Car Rallies Eg: Trim and Terenue rallies during the summer. And if your prepared to go to the UK I see decent models for sale...

Good luck with either chocie.

cantdecide

Well, logically I should have kept my old car. The best of both worlds at half the cost and twice the doors. An E36 325i with all the sport trimmings.

I still miss you girl....

Andrewf20

The E30 325i is not massively fast and the M3 would leave it standing performance wise. The 12 valve 325i has a very modest power output (170bhp) for its engine size. The last E30 M3 had over 230bhp from the same size engine as a comparison. (Its redline was high as well however.)

If he goes down the M3 avenue, I would recommend the non evo E36 M3 as this single vanos engine seemed to not suffer as much as the twin vanos evo with vanos issues, which can be tearfully expensive to fix. The non evo with 286bhp vs 321 bhp in the evo are similar in performance. I was a passenger in the non evo M3 and its rudy quick. Parts for the M3 can be eye wateringly expensive also.

The E30s are a great car. My brother has an E30 318is and its a hoot to drive. The back end can easily come away though if you lift off thru wet bends. It can be a tricky handler, but the E30's are so raw and back to basics in terms of their feel, that it feels almost like being in a go kart. If he does get an E30 Id probably recommend power steering unless he has strong arms!

Money, no object, it would be the M3, otherwise I would buy neither, and go for a late post Nikasil E36 328i M tech. This looks very tasty, but being an early 98 example, the Nikasil issue would worry me though: http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=821073. But if I had to pick from the 2 cars in the OP, then Id go with the E30 325i. Spending 1343euro on road tax, expensive parts, and 321bhp that I would probably hardly ever fully use on Irish roads, for me, it makes little sense to go with the M3. A 325i, despite being older should be a good deal cheaper to run, but still a decent motor to put a smile on my face.

unkel

Andrewf20 wrote: »

This looks very tasty, but being an early 98 example, the Nikasil issue would worry me though

The NCT is up in August '08 so maybe the car was first registered in August '98?

If the engine was manufactured before week 8 in '98, there is no nikasil issue. See this recent thread

S.I.R

BMW e36 M3 Evo

the e30 325i is a better car , better handling with better build quality... besides , id just spend 18,000 and get a evo II model rather then the 20+ for m3

E92

Any E36 with the M52 engine can have the Nikasil problem AFAIK. The Double VANOS came in with the introduction of the E46.

Andrewf20

unkel wrote: »

The NCT is up in August '08 so maybe the car was first registered in August '98?

If the engine was manufactured before week 8 in '98, there is no nikasil issue. See this recent thread

Ah yes, was posting there yesterday. I was looking at the low reg number with 4 digits (98 MO 4668), guessing it was very early 1998. It looks a lovely motor. If I didnt have the current motor, Id be seriously interested in this one! From talking to some folks it seems that the 328i is not far off the M3 pace wise, its only up at the higher speeds that the M3 really pulls away.

Andrewf20

S.I.R wrote: »

the e30 325i is a better car , better handling with better build quality... besides , id just spend 18,000 and get a evo II model rather then the 20+ for m3

I am impressed how my brothers E30 has lasted, the build quality is excellent despite its hard life (track days etc), but the handling of the E30's (non M3) is not considered better than the E36's. They are very twitchy at the back. The E36's Z axle was considered better than the E30's trailing arms. Ive driven both and the E36 give much more confidence at the limit, especially in the wet. Thats not to say the E30 isnt fun, it is, but its more challenging, and in a way perhaps more rewarding.

unkel

E92 wrote: »

Any E36 with the M52 engine can have the Nikasil problem AFAIK

Indeed. That's why you'd need to find out when the engine was manufacturered. I guess BMW would be able to tell you

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Ah yes, was posting there yesterday. I was looking at the low reg number with 4 digits (98 MO 4668), guessing it was very early 1998

Mayo ain't Dublin and I reckon 4668 is a pretty high number for that county

Andrewf20

Good point. Didnt think of that.:)

Mac 3

BMW e36 M3 Evo

Hi All, couple of things spring to mind. 98 MO most likely an import.

I have an E36 that had Nikasil trouble a few years ago. BMW were kind enough to replace the engine in the end, although I had to jump through a lot of hoops. The engine used in them is an M52 and after week 10 of 1998, the cars were fitted with M52TU engines (i think TU stands for technical upgrade) This was BMWs fix for the nikasil problem. These engines are equiped with an Alusil block.

Aparantly the M3 was unaffected by the Nikisil problems. Different block apparantly so no worries there.I've never heard of an M3 with nikasil trouble. Vanos failure seems to be the issue there..

328i, nice car i just wonder about selling it on, would anyone interested in a high performance BMW just go the whole hog and get the M3. I'm just wondering is it a case of always the bridesmaid never the bride.

I have an E30 325i, well able to move, not the most sophisticated or comfortable compared with todays cars, puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Google WLN automotive for a look at some of the best E30s out there, but they know how to charge.

Just my 2 cents worth..

E92

Mac 3 wrote: »

I have an E36 that had Nikasil trouble a few years ago. BMW were kind enough to replace the engine in the end, although I had to jump through a lot of hoops. The engine used in them is an M52 and after week 10 of 1998, the cars were fitted with M52TU engines (i think TU stands for technical upgrade) This was BMWs fix for the nikasil problem. These engines are equiped with an Alusil block.

Aparantly the M3 was unaffected by the Nikisil problems. Different block apparantly so no worries there.I've never heard of an M3 with nikasil trouble. Vanos failure seems to be the issue there..

The M3 never used the M52(it did in America when the M3's engine expanded to 3.2 litres but their E36 M3 had 240 bhp), it was always based on the M50(designated S50 naturally) for the E36 and M54(S54 for the M3 of course) for the E46. Hence no Nikasil issue(American M52s didn't use Nikasil ever)

M52TU engines have Double VANOS, something never fitted to the E36 AFAIK.

And the Alusil block was for the M60(which also had the problem), the V8 found in the E34, E32, E38 and E31(in the case of the E38 and E31 this was replaced by the newer M62 engine). The M52TU had iron linings to cure the Nikasil problem;).

JHMEG

The wikipedia article on Nikasil is rubbish. Honda never used nikasil, and the H-series engines had FRM cylinder liners (carbon fibre cast into the metal). I've just deleted reference to both.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

The M3 never used the M52(it did in America when the M3's engine expanded to 3.2 litres but their E36 M3 had 240 bhp), it was always based on the M50(designated S50 naturally) for the E36 and M54(S54 for the M3 of course) for the E46. Hence no Nikasil issue(American M52s didn't use Nikasil ever)

M52TU engines have Double VANOS, something never fitted to the E36 AFAIK.

And the Alusil block was for the M60(which also had the problem), the V8 found in the E34, E32, E38 and E31(in the case of the E38 and E31 this was replaced by the newer M62 engine). The M52TU had iron linings to cure the Nikasil problem;).

I'm nearly sure that the E36 M3 Evolution did have double VANOS, and the filters need to be changed every service to help prevent against problems. The pre-Evo M3 (I think 96 and older) has the single VANOS and as said 286bhp. Autocar recently had a report on them as a 2nd hand buy, and they reckoned that the pre-Evo model was the one to go for cause you can get them a lot cheaper (as everyone wants the newer one) and the difference in performance is negligable in real terms, and it's actually more reliable.

E92

As you said Biro, the S50B30 i.e. original E36 M3 with the 3.0 engine is the one to go for because of reliability, the S50B32(3.2 Evo version) had VANOS issues IIRC. AFAIK there was no VANOS in the non Evo M3. The Evo M3 certainly did have some sort of VANOS, however I don't know for sure whether it had Double VANOS or normal VANOS, but I would fairly certain that it had single VANOS because the S50 is related to the M50 and they only ever put Double VANOS into the M50's successor i.e. the M52.

I have a recent copy of BMW car and IIRC there is an article about it so I'll get back and tell ye about it maybe tomorrow.

Andrewf20

3.0l non evo - single vanos - 286bhp
3.2l evo - double vanos - 321bhp

The later M52TU engine came with double vanos. The older M52B had single vanos.

Biro

Yep, that's the right info there.

paddy316i

I had an E30. Nice car but be prepared to pour loads of money into it. Have an E36 328i now. Much less hassle

Slidey

I has a sport and bloody loved it.
The sound of the 6cyl just made my toes tingle.
Gave it loads and it never gave me a moments trouble.
If you are not a confident driver t can scare you, the back end just loves to get a look at whats comin.
They really are stating to show their age.
Scuttle under window,
Mounting point for factory assy line
Rear arched (inner)
And under the battery trap in the boot all suffer from the dreaded rust.
Rear subframe bushes go to and are not nice to change.
M3s of mid 90's are dirt cheap now and you will get an average one for less than a e30.
Would pick the e30 myself though, love the old school look and the raw driving experience