New Focus raises the bar even higher again.

Henry Ford III

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/213081/ford_focus.html

colm_mcm

Auto Express "first drives" of anything are rarely critical. Nice facelift though.

pburns

Yeah, they did a good job of improving the overly-conservative MkII. I always thought if you came out of prison after being incarcerated for 10 years and saw the MkI and II beside one another you'd pick out the older car as the fresher model...

maidhc

pburns wrote: »

I always thought if you came out of prison after being incarcerated for 10 years and saw the MkI and II beside one another you'd pick out the older car as the fresher model...

Agree.

Even more glowing review:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=301

JHMEG

Sounds very good indeed, tho it's the ugliest Focus to date.

moe_sizlak

sorry for going slightly off topic but is it me or is the new mondeo not selling that well , i think its a great looking car and i like mondeos anyway but i have not seen all that much of the new model around

littlejukka

seen a few 07 mondeos as taxis, but not many other than that.

maidhc

moe_sizlak wrote: »

sorry for going slightly off topic but is it me or is the new mondeo not selling that well , i think its a great looking car and i like mondeos anyway but i have not seen all that much of the new model around

There is a pretty long waiting list for them. I was talking to the storeman in a Ford dealership a few months ago, and he said you would need to have been ordering then if you wanted a car by Feb.

Honest John's review of the Focus suggests the same thing.

Not sure about the looks of the new focus either, but it is at least more interesting than the MkII.

E92

moe_sizlak wrote: »

sorry for going slightly off topic but is it me or is the new mondeo not selling that well , i think its a great looking car and i like mondeos anyway but i have not seen all that much of the new model around

That would be because it only came out in the summer, and 60% of new car sales are in Jan-March, I would expect Ford to sell them by the bucketload come next January, especially as it now has that all important 1.6 available again after a 7 year absence(which of course will be completely irrelevant come July next year).

Henry Ford III

Wrong 1.6 though imho. Anyhow back to the Focus MkIII.

copacetic

moe_sizlak wrote: »

sorry for going slightly off topic but is it me or is the new mondeo not selling that well , i think its a great looking car and i like mondeos anyway but i have not seen all that much of the new model around

pretty sure it is you, as noted above they are selling as fast as they can be provided for sale!

BrianD3

Exterior styling looks different but no better than before. Dash is still bland and big deal if it's now more rubbery than before and has "Mondeo style" clocks. If they are offering the same engines as before presumably they'll be continuing with the crappy 80 bhp 1.4 and 100 bhp 1.6. The new Mondeo still has a miserable 2 year warranty here, will the Focus be the same

Have to laugh at the British magazines hyping up the Focus and Fords generally. Yes the handling is very good but the ride comfort is poor for Irish roads. I also don't think it's true to say that this car is "so heavily revised it’s effectively a Focus Mk III" as stated in the honestjohn review. Whoever wrote that review seems to be be using the Focus to have a go a Volkswagen

ninty9er

maidhc wrote: »

There is a pretty long waiting list for them. I was talking to the storeman in a Ford dealership a few months ago, and he said you would need to have been ordering then if you wanted a car by Feb.

Lyons in Limerick had about 15 unreg'd on the forecourt last week when I was out there, but I heard one salesman saying that a 2.0 TDCi Auto Zetec wouldn't be in until July at the earliest.

There's a lot of them out there, just not the ones people want

Zonda999

I wonder if ESP will be standard here as well.If it isn't it would'nt be the first time.e.g ESP has been standard on the golf mk 5 in the uk since launch and i'm fairly sure that it still isn't standard on the golf here

ninty9er

Zonda999 wrote: »

I wonder if ESP will be standard here as well.If it isn't it would'nt be the first time.e.g ESP has been standard on the golf mk 5 in the uk since launch and i'm fairly sure that it still isn't standard on the golf here

Well to nitpick...the MKV Golf does now have ASR as standard...I'm sure Ford will jump on the bandwagon. as will everyone else at facelift time...as it's really embarrassing to be outspecced by VW:eek::eek:

E92

ninty9er wrote: »

Well to nitpick...the MKV Golf does now have ASR as standard...I'm sure Ford will jump on the bandwagon. as will everyone else at facelift time...as it's really embarrassing to be outspecced by VW:eek::eek:

And to nitpick even more:D ASR is not the same as ESP at all. But it is highly embarassing to be outdone by VW, sure even the Polo has aircon as satandard on all versions these days:eek:.

Henry Ford III

BrianD3 wrote: »

Exterior styling looks different but no better than before. Dash is still bland and big deal if it's now more rubbery than before and has "Mondeo style" clocks. If they are offering the same engines as before presumably they'll be continuing with the crappy 80 bhp 1.4 and 100 bhp 1.6. The new Mondeo still has a miserable 2 year warranty here, will the Focus be the same

Have to laugh at the British magazines hyping up the Focus and Fords generally. Yes the handling is very good but the ride comfort is poor for Irish roads. I also don't think it's true to say that this car is "so heavily revised it’s effectively a Focus Mk III" as stated in the honestjohn review. Whoever wrote that review seems to be be using the Focus to have a go a Volkswagen

Honestly your bitterness makes me laugh. Whatever your opinion might be your blinkers render it largely meaningless.

Henry Ford III

ninty9er wrote: »

Lyons in Limerick had about 15 unreg'd on the forecourt last week when I was out there, but I heard one salesman saying that a 2.0 TDCi Auto Zetec wouldn't be in until July at the earliest.

There's a lot of them out there, just not the ones people want

Possibly, but until the VRT and road tax rules change (announcement due in the budget with introduction mid 2008) such a car would have been too expensive.

The "ones people want" can all be had. Dealers frequently swap stock.

Henry Ford III

ninty9er wrote: »

Well to nitpick...the MKV Golf does now have ASR as standard...I'm sure Ford will jump on the bandwagon. as will everyone else at facelift time...as it's really embarrassing to be outspecced by VW:eek::eek:

The Focus chassis is so far ahead of the game it doesn't need ESP or ASR.

I drove a 2.5 ST for a year and it was fine without it/them.

VW are dropping independent rear suspension on the MkVI Golf btw. Focus has had this on all models since 1998.

maidhc

Henry Ford III wrote: »

VW are dropping independent rear suspension on the MkVI Golf btw. Focus has had this on all models since 1998.

I hear they are fitting leaf springs.

bazz26

ESP or ASR on a 1.4/1.6 litre car with 100bhp or less is hardly a necessity though is it?

Anyway back on topic. Will wait until I see the facelifted Focus in the flesh before giving my final verdict.

Not sure though that the new styling carved onto the old look works that well. From the pictures the front nose looks out of place with the existing design from the cabin back.

Speaking as the owner of one for 6 weeks now the Focus is a very good car but it isn't the complete package. I think they do need to start bringing their bread and butter engines into the 21st century. 80bhp from a 1.4 litre and 100bhp from a 1.6 litre should not be acceptable in 2007. No direct injection, variable valve timing technology, etc offerings is poor imo.

They also need to improve sound proofing in the cabin imo.The chassis and handling has been engineered well but there is still room for improvement in other areas. Overall a good car though.

E92

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The Focus chassis is so far ahead of the game it doesn't need ESP or ASR.

I drove a 2.5 ST for a year and it was fine without it/them.

VW are dropping independent rear suspension on the MkVI Golf btw. Focus has had this on all models since 1998.

I believe that this is only for the US/North America. They are going to be making cars for the US that will be more US friendly in the future, and these will have much simpler chassis designs, but higher spec interiors instead. Europe will be business as usual apparantly.

copacetic

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The Focus chassis is so far ahead of the game it doesn't need ESP or ASR.

I drove a 2.5 ST for a year and it was fine without it/them.

VW are dropping independent rear suspension on the MkVI Golf btw. Focus has had this on all models since 1998.

that is some of the biggest load of bullcrap I have ever heard. I have esp on my car and it is fine without esp too, it has never come on, but it isn't supposed to kick in unless you are in serious trouble already. esp isn't there to help the handling it is to prevent spins etc when people misjudge speed through corners. a chassis doesn't make any fecking difference when someone goes around a corner too fast and keeps turning into it, esp will.

Churchy

Agree with Copa ^^

Maybe biased as I went thru sales training when esp was just introduced , but I seen what it can do on the skid pan , regular driver with esp will beat a pro without , via a slalom in the wet .Nice safety feature if you overcook it in a corner.

peasant

Churchy wrote: »

Agree with Copa ^^

Maybe biased as I went thru sales training when esp was just introduced , but I seen what it can do on the skid pan , regular driver with esp will beat a pro without , via a slalom in the wet .Nice safety feature if you overcook it in a corner.

Agree ...but ... a well engineered chassis should let you know well in advance that you are about to overcook things (and I'm let to belive that the Focus has a pretty good chassis setup)

copacetic

peasant wrote: »

Agree ...but ... a well engineered chassis should let you know well in advance that you are about to overcook things (and I'm let to belive that the Focus has a pretty good chassis setup)

aw man, please don't go down the route of 'i'm such a good driver that I don't need things like esp'.

I suppose you would feel from the chassis that you had gone way to fast into a corner on a wet road and can recover a car from the resulting skid better than an esp system?

copacetic

copacetic wrote: »

that is some of the biggest load of bullcrap I have ever heard. I have esp on my car and it is fine without esp too, it has never come on, but it isn't supposed to kick in unless you are in serious trouble already. esp isn't there to help the handling it is to prevent spins etc when people misjudge speed through corners. a chassis doesn't make any fecking difference when someone goes around a corner too fast and keeps turning into it, esp will.

Eh no. If you have a rubbish chassis to begin with you won't be able to push as hard before you lose it. The chassis will also dictate what happens to the car when it does lose control. It is by far and away the most important part of how a car drives. Although some manufacturers use ESP and traction control to paper over the cracks on a poor handling car.

copacetic

ronoc wrote: »

Eh no. If you have a rubbish chassis to begin with you won't be able to push as hard before you lose it. The chassis will also dictate what happens to the car when it does lose control. It is by far and away the most important part of how a car drives. Although some manufacturers use ESP and traction control to paper over the cracks on poor handling car.

oh sweet mother of god, i see where this is going:rolleyes:.

copacetic

copacetic wrote: »

oh sweet mother of god, i see where this is going:rolleyes:.

Well spit it out then

colm_mcm

On a completely unrelated note, they've put traction control, stability control, and brake assist onto the 1.6 Avensis for 2008, not that you'd need it of course!

Henry Ford III

Good god this thread has turned truly awful. So much bitching and bitterness.

Henry Ford III

copacetic wrote: »

that is some of the biggest load of bullcrap I have ever heard. I have esp on my car and it is fine without esp too, it has never come on, but it isn't supposed to kick in unless you are in serious trouble already. esp isn't there to help the handling it is to prevent spins etc when people misjudge speed through corners. a chassis doesn't make any fecking difference when someone goes around a corner too fast and keeps turning into it, esp will.

I didn't need it. I didn't crash or loose control of the car ever. Do you own a Focus ST? No need for the abusive comment btw.

peasant

copacetic wrote: »

aw man, please don't go down the route of 'i'm such a good driver that I don't need things like esp'.

I never said that.

What I said is that a good chassis setup should give you enough feedback so that an experienced driver should know that he is about to overcook it and lay off.

Surely, ESP is a fine thing to have in an emergency, but I wouldn't see it as a neccessity.

By design it should only kick in if you made a serious driving error (unless it's there to mask a rubbish chassis) ...so don't make any mistakes and you won't need it.

There was a survey done in Germany on all these electronic helpers and the bottom line was, they they don't really offer that much increased safety (= less accidents) because driver recklessness rises proportionally to gadgets fitted and people tend to keep the pedal to the metal until all the lights on the dashboard start flashing and even something as sophisticated as ESP is at its limit.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote:

Honestly your bitterness makes me laugh. Whatever your opinion might be your blinkers render it largely meaningless

LOL if anything you are the most blinkered and biased poster in the forum. Constantly hyping up Fords and their handling and bashing nearly every other make particularly Japanese and French makes. I am not bitter at all the Focus II is a good car, we have owned two of them so I have personal experience of it (how much personal experience have you of the cars you slate). But if I see fanboy talk or a biased review in either the forum or in a car mag I'm going to comment on it. Judging by comments from other posters it seems like I'm not the only one who has a problem with the fanboyism. Also I'd echo bazz26's comments/criticisms on the Focus.

Henry Ford III

Comical dude. Genuinely.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I didn't need it. I didn't crash or loose control of the car ever. Do you own a Focus ST? No need for the abusive comment btw.

I have driven the ST once, it is difficult to break the front wheels on a good surface. I would totally agree it is a really planted car.

I can't imagine it is the same on greasy surfaces, there is alot of power going to those wheels!

R.O.R

A collegue of mine was at the launch of the new Focus in Belgium a couple of months ago. Ford brought all the competition to test drive against the new Focus (C4, Golf, Astra, Tiida etc). General concensus from most of the people there was that the Focus was the best looking, and best handling car in that sector (interstingly the Astra came out 2nd!). Standard spec isn't up to the same levels as the competition, but in my company's opinion a specced up Focus is cheaper to own/run over 3/4 years than anything else in that sector of a comparable spec.

maidhc

copacetic wrote: »

a chassis doesn't make any fecking difference when someone goes around a corner too fast and keeps turning into it, esp will.

Yes it does... a good chassis will say on the road, and a poor one won't. My Focus for instance can take a corner much better than my Avensis, and it feels much safer.

Henry Ford III

R.O.R wrote: »

A collegue of mine was at the launch of the new Focus in Belgium a couple of months ago. Ford brought all the competition to test drive against the new Focus (C4, Golf, Astra, Tiida etc). General concensus from most of the people there was that the Focus was the best looking, and best handling car in that sector (interstingly the Astra came out 2nd!). Standard spec isn't up to the same levels as the competition, but in my company's opinion a specced up Focus is cheaper to own/run over 3/4 years than anything else in that sector of a comparable spec.

Yep. Zetec spec. is essential. 1.6 petrol is good, and the 1.6 TDCI is fine too. The Budget may make anything bigger engine wise a rarity post June 2008.

The Astra looks very good as a 3 door. Quite sporty.

Henry Ford III

ronoc wrote: »

I have driven the ST once, it is difficult to break the front wheels on a good surface. I would totally agree it is a really planted car.

I can't imagine it is the same on greasy surfaces, there is alot of power going to those wheels!

I agree.

It's possible to provoke an ST into a slide or spin in conditions of limited grip, but any competent driver will know when it's time to go more gently on the throttle.

copacetic

maidhc wrote: »

Yes it does... a good chassis will say on the road, and a poor one won't. My Focus for instance can take a corner much better than my Avensis, and it feels much safer.

no it doesn't, a chassis doesn't 'keep you on the road'. If it did no-one could ever crash any decent car. all a chassis does is make the point of no return different from car to car. Your focus will still spin out at a certain point, which is when esp may keep you alive.

as usual we have the 'if you are a good driver you don't need no stinkin safety features' attitude, which is the attitude that gets most people killed on our roads. The focus is the most popular car in ireland, saying it doesn't need esp because it has a good chassis is just stupid. 90% of the people in them can't drive worth a damn, they need esp.

Why have ford made it standard on the mondeo, because it has a ****e chassis?

Henry Ford III

Please pick an argument elsewhere copacetic.

copacetic

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Please pick an argument elsewhere copacetic.

I'm not picking an argument, you are the one who made the idiotic statement, I'm entitled to point out how stupid a statement it is.

Henry Ford III

copacetic wrote: »

I'm not picking an argument, you are the one who made the idiotic statement, I'm entitled to point out how stupid a statement it is.

In your opinion. My point and opinion are every bit as valid as yours. More so perhaps as I owned and ran a Focus ST for a while, and know all about how these very fine cars drive.

Using terms such as "idiotic statement" and "stupid statement" highlight my point.

Thread spoiling is frowned upon here I believe.

copacetic

Henry Ford III wrote: »

In your opinion. My point and opinion are every bit as valid as yours. More so perhaps as I owned and ran a Focus ST for a while, and know all about how these very fine cars drive.

Using terms such as "idiotic statement" and "stupid statement" highlight my point.

Thread spoiling is frowned upon here I believe.

I drove a focus for 6 years, not an ST, but still a fine car, which handles very well. Which is absolutely nothing to do with safety feature like esp.

You don't seem to know what thread spoiling means, you must thing you are on adverts.

E92

@colm_mcm, will there be a price hike for the 1.6 Avensis now that it has ESP(or VSC as Toyota call it), Traction Control and Brake Assist as standard? If there is, surley it will make the 1.6 a bit pointless, especially as the VRT changes mean the D-4D will be in the 20% band, and the 1.6 will be in the 28% band(along with the 1.8), or will the 1.6 quietly disappear with the introduction of the new model Avensis next year?

Henry Ford III

So let's get this right.

You haven't even driven a car that you are prepared vehemently to insist needs ESP?

p.s. Check the thread title dude.

maidhc

copacetic wrote: »

no it doesn't, a chassis doesn't 'keep you on the road'. If it did no-one could ever crash any decent car. all a chassis does is make the point of no return different from car to car. Your focus will still spin out at a certain point, which is when esp may keep you alive.

You are missing the point. No car or chassis or ESP or ASC or Brake Assist can defy the forces of physics. A car with a good chassis will just be much safer than a poorly sorted one with whatever electrial device. Of course the best situation to to have a car with a good dynamics and all the safety features, but in the absence of this a good chassis and a safe handling car is the best anyone can hope for.

copacetic wrote: »

'if you are a good driver you don't need no stinkin safety features' attitude

No one except yourself has alluded to this!

copacetic

maidhc wrote: »

Of course the best situation to to have a car with a good dynamics and all the safety features

This is exactly what I was saying, people on the thread seem to believe good dynamics replace the need to safety features altogether.

No one except yourself has alluded to this!

ahem

ford fanboy wrote:

It's possible to provoke an ST into a slide or spin in conditions of limited grip, but any competent driver will know when it's time to go more gently on the throttle.

copacetic

Henry Ford III wrote: »

So let's get this right.

You haven't even driven a car that you are prepared vehemently to insist needs ESP?

p.s. Check the thread title dude.

who says I haven't driven the new focus? what I am saying if you can understand is that any car is safer with esp. You are the one who says the focus doesn't need this vital safety feature. I suppose it don't need airbags either cos the chassis is so great you can't crash?

dogmatix

Maybe it's just me or i got the wrong link but apart from some changes to the front and headlights I can't really see any great difference from the current mk2. Perhaps I need to see it in the flesh.