Commerce & Macbook Qs.

c7

Ok, so I'm a prospective Commerce student and am considering getting a MacBook soon. As far as I can tell, laptops are mandatory at Quinn school. But does the laptop have to be a Dell or HP (since these are the ones that are in the laptop scheme)?

MuddyDog

personally i hate macs but if you get into commerce you'll be offered 3 laptops each of different quality all made by dell that'll have all the necessary stuff in it for college. they're pretty decent spec and cheaper than if you were to get the exact same laptop straight from dell i believe.

conor2007

get the mac


get openoffice for everything u thought u needed windows for


macbooks are deadly , i switched there a while go and they are so handy and cool

Raphael

From what I've heard the IT people in the quinn school will pretty much tell people with macs where they can stick them. Also the reason commerce students need laptops is, (I'm told), so the lecturers can pretty much do to them "right, everyone open excel and do this", or something like that. Hence mac not a great idea.

conor2007

mac has excel

and nearly every lecturer i have seen / staff have had - you guessed it - a mac

so thats a loadda bollix bout them tellin ye where to go

Raphael

Eh... are you doing commerce? Have you experience with the Quinn IT department? Are the lecturers and staff you've seen toting macbooks commerce lecturers and staff?

conor2007

i dont do commerce

but if wifi/printing/excel and everything else you would need can work on a macbook

why would you deal with the it staff - plus daedulus are there if you need help

Raphael

Right, in that case neither of us do commerce, and are both working off hearsay and experience of different situations. So let's just wait until someone who can see comes along and settles the dispute of what the elephant looks like.

conor2007

grey i believe

im just saying there is nuthin he would loose (gain a lot infact) in gettin a mac(book)

armada104

I study Commerce and have worked with ILTG (the IT people in Quinn) during Orientation Week. You'll need a laptop and it can't be a Mac. Full Stop. I think it's stupid personally but God help you if you try to argue with them.

If you get a place you'll be sent info on the laptops offered. If you opt to use your own laptop it has to meet very specific requirements. First years this year had to have Windows XP and not Vista.

Yes, it's ridiculous that they're gonna dictate what kind of laptop you buy, but if your heart's set on Quinn then it's not worth wasting your money on a Mac; you'll only have to buy another new laptop next September

armada104

conor2007 wrote: »

why would you deal with the it staff - plus daedulus are there if you need help

Every first year in Quinn is required to register their laptop with ILTG. They then go to ILTG for IT support and not UCD IT Services.

armada104

Third post in a row... oh dear.

c7 wrote: »

...does the laptop have to be a Dell or HP (since these are the ones that are in the laptop scheme)?

The laptop can be any PC as long as it meets the requirements specified by ILTG in August next year. Problem for you is that you don't know what they are yet.

Actually, I wonder if it'd be OK to use Boot Camp on a Mac to run Windows for college purposes. I've never seen anyone do this before, but it'd be worth looking in to I suppose...

Raphael

Ah-ha! I knew it had big ears!

conor2007

can i ask why it has to be windows ?


no reason it has to be

the evil lime

I'm final year commerce, and have been a tutor for one of the IT subjects. I'm also writing this on my iMac.

Ok, the reason you need a regular PC as opposed to a mac is this: you need the latest version of MS Office. That is Office 2007. No bull**** with NeoOffice or Open Office, or Office for Mac, you'll need Access, and we don't teach for differant versions of office, only the latest. MS Office only, for exams and what have you. I had one student this year using a mac, with bootcamp, running Office 2007. There didn't seem to be a problem, but I don't know what the story with tech support from the ILTG would be, and seeing as how they handle registrations on the wired network, and you need to be able to connect by ethernet.... still, maybe regular IT services could sort that, I've never had to deal with them.

Plus, the mac is considerable extra expense over the dell laptop, as you have to get windows and office (and probably a bigger hard drive), both of which come as standard with the Dell deal.

If you really want the mac, or feel it is in some way worth all the extra money (I'd probably think it was, but I live on my computer, and prefer it not to crash if I ask it to do more than eight things at once), and that you're decently technically competent enough to fix most problems on your own, then go for it. Keep in mind, however that those companies most likely to employ a commerce graduate will most likely not use macs, and won't let you use one either.

Red Alert

Why are they requiring Office 2007 specifically - as opposed to say 2000, XP, 2003? Why is Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac unacceptable?

How would ILTG feel about a parallels-equipped machine?

the evil lime

The course I was tutoring / ta-ing / whatever it's called was a first year course in which we taught students web design, Word and Excel. We taught using office 2007, which has a very different interface to previous versions of office. Therefore, the students had to have it.

Also, it may have something to do with how it handles the macros which are used during the exams.

Insofar as I know, office for mac doesn't have Access, and that's needed in second year.

Not having anything to do with ILTG, I have no idea what they'd say about parallels.

Stabshauptmann

MuddyDog wrote: »

personally i hate macs but if you get into commerce you'll be offered 3 laptops each of different quality all made by dell that'll have all the necessary stuff in it for college. they're pretty decent spec and cheaper than if you were to get the exact same laptop straight from dell i believe.

You will NOT save money by buying a laptop through UCD. You will be far better off buying your own

Stabshauptmann

ILTG will not have anything to do with you if you have a Mac.

If you have a mac and wont to use it you must be sufficiently technically competent to do all the things ILTG would do yourself. Which means internet access and printing, both of which a mac user I knew told me he was having problems with.

When Quinn is designing an elearning programme they are very narrow minded about how it will work. Some things Ive done in commerce online wouldnt work with Firefox for example. Everything is microsoft latest x y or z.

Finally, you will need to do a LOT of collaborations in any Quinn course. If you are meeting your group to cut and paste a report together and your bit messes everything up, its just hassle. I dont know about opensource file formats, but considering different versions of Word when put together can mess up minor formatting details, Im going to go out on a limb and say its not as easy as if you'd all prepared your bit on the same software.

conor2007

open office / neooffice can save a file in any format
97-200-xp etc - mac format anything so no compatibility problems
wireless works grand-printing grand

as for ''suffeciently technically competent'' - i would say you need to be less so than with a dell-windows

new macbooks come with paralels so all you have to do is buy (cough) office 2007 and your set - hd is big eneough - 1100 ish will do that

save ya hassle in the long run

the evil lime

Honestly, anything we say here is just our best guess. If you really want to know, get in touch with the school and ask them about it.

I'd still reckon that for a hassle free experience with regard to commerce, a dell laptop, bought through the quinn school's program is the best bet. It means ILTG will fix pretty much anything that goes wrong with it for you.

It may not be the cheapest option, and I'd certainly prefer to be using a mac, but it has been very easy to have any technical issues sorted. I've had a motherboard replaced, and my hard-drive wiped for me without any major questions or hassle. It took them less than an hour to reset the hard-drive actually. If any of the students in my class had problems I couldn't fix, I just told them to go up to ILTG and get it sorted.

Stabshauptmann

conor2007 wrote: »

open office / neooffice can save a file in any format
97-200-xp etc - mac format anything so no compatibility problems
wireless works grand-printing grand

as for ''suffeciently technically competent'' - i would say you need to be less so than with a dell-windows

new macbooks come with paralels so all you have to do is buy (cough) office 2007 and your set - hd is big eneough - 1100 ish will do that

save ya hassle in the long run

you need to be on the wired network for online assesments, and just curious, if you dont do commerce then how do you know about setting up printing in the quinn school?

Creamy Goodness

connor2007, macbooks DO NOT come with parallels as standard, you have to buy it.

load of half truths in this thread about mac and windows.

thank christ i decided to go to a college that the IT crew aren't stuck up their own arses (in no way do i mean they are good either), but to have such a narrow view on technology takes the piss.

Red Alert

IT at large aren't too bad re: macs. However some decisions of college (like iPrint compared to usual IPP or Windows printing) have made mac use harder.

ILTG appeared to be a souped up version of IT, but narrowed onto Microsoft products only. In fact, a site or other application that doesn't effectively work in Firefox may have trouble with IE7 - i.e. badly coded.

conor2007

ucd is a joke when it comes to technology
mics-speakers-pc's-programs-blackboards-projectsors
everything-they dont even use vista - ****e but its better than vista

sorry , you dont get it installed - but if you buy online you get a discount from being in college which will get ya 70 euro for paralells

printing-ucd give ya a mem stick so i would go to dadelus or anywhere with a printer and print that way

graduate

Having done Commerce a couple of years ago and some IT tutoring I can see a lot of disinformation in this thread. Commerce do a lot of stuff in the classroom on laptops, this is related to the courses. This is different from other parts of UCD where people complete projects etc on laptops and submit the finished product, in this case it doesn't matter what Office you use. If you want someone to do something in class you can't have two or three different versions of software, this would lead to chaos and half the class being taken up with people fiddling with laptops. It is not a question of having a narrow view of technology, it is question of everyone having the same thing in class. ILTG are not a souped up version of IT, but part of a school, they have no brief to support technology as such, only to support the classes of the Quinn school and they haven't the staff to support half a dozen configurations.

ucdperson

Whatever the state of technology generally in UCD, the Quinn school have tried to use it. This thread talks about Office etc, but the point is that the laptop will be used for 3 years for a whole variety of things and nobody knows what these will be, except that they will be tested on the standard laptop configuration. For the OP, does he want to be in the following position. Week 7 of his second semester the lecturer arrives in class and tells everyone to run a link to a stock exchange game, for 3% of the marks, 49 people in class do this, but you can't run the thing on your mac. Do you fill in an extenuating circumstances form saying that you have the mac because the people on Boards.ie said it would be OK, or maybe you expect the lecturer to go back to chalk and talk because everyone has a different setup on their laptop?

Red Alert

That's why I'm suggesting a Parallels installation. I only ever have to use mine about once a week - but I've a choice of NT, 2000 or XP - in fact I can run all three at the same time if I really want to. I'm not saying that's the best way to go but my point is that if the OP wants to get a mac, a virtual PC on it should cover everything you need.

c7

Thanks for all the post guys, didn't think I'd get this many replies! As far as I can see, virtualising Windows on a Mac with whatever version of Office used could be a way of circumventing the Dell situation. Now that Boot Camp is out of Beta I can't see too many problems arising, besides networking and printing issues that someone mentioned. As for interoperability on projects and stuff, if I'm virtualising XP with the same version of Office as the rest, there shouldn't be a problem! Think I might get in contact, or wait till I get my place... or go to the more Mac friendly Trinity.... lol

su_dios

Ok I'm not in UCD but saw this and thought I'd post anyway. One .. I don't see why everyone keeps suggesting parallels? I have used it and it is pretty bad and messes with program settings also. Use bootcamp!! Its free.. it will come on your new machine and will then run xp like(and in some cases better than) any other intel pc. I have to use bootcamp to run autocad and it works great. Just boot into your windows partition at the start of each lecture and you should be sorted. Oh and office 2008 for mac is out in January which will do all the same things as 2007 but with a nicer interface.

conor2007

''Just get a copy of Windows and start up Boot Camp , now included with Leopard''


so give 20 gb of your 120 gb hard drive - can get bigger - thats the decent second grade macbook - and your set

you can run anything there - and use the macside otherwise


get an antivirus and firewall first! -when using windows on the web

Red Alert

Reason I advise against Boot Camp is the reason I avoid dual booting on PC hardware also - it's generally a bad idea, and can sometimes break things like instant suspend/resume. Unless you're a computer whiz, you should not be playing with your boot sector. Parallels is fine for commerce-type apps, hell I even run compiles on it to test Windows builds.

Actually while we're on the topic, the number of commerce-related mac questions does seem to be growing. It might be good for reference if ILTG said they'd allow (not necessairly support) someone using Boot Camp (should be no contest) or a virtualization package like Parallels or VMWare Fusion.

Stabshauptmann

conor2007 wrote: »

printing-ucd give ya a mem stick so i would go to dadelus or anywhere with a printer and print that way

Glad to know you were just talking through your ass.

remus808

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Glad to know you were just talking through your ass.

FYI I print this way too.. Does it offend your sensibilites somehow?

Stabshauptmann

I dont see how its relevant.

If connor2007 had said, true you may have some printing difficulties in the Quinn school but these can be overcome by doing X,y, or Z* or you could print somewhere else in UCD, well that would be a helpful and informative post

*because to the best of my knowledge there is a way, Im just not familiar with the details of the problem let alone the solution.

But if he wants to offer an unfounded opinion and present it as fact, then backtrack, ofcourse Im gonna call him on talking through his ass. Why? Because when I ask questions, and I do ask a lot of questions, Id like people to give me honest, knowledgeable answers. Nobody should really have to be pulled up twice in the same (short) thread on presenting speculation as fact.

Telling someone you will have no problems printing in the Quinn school is not the same as telling them alternative places they can print.

woop

have a look at the dell xps 13.3 ones
theyre fairly nice compare well with the macbooks lighter too

thinking bout getting myself one

armada104

conor2007, I don't at all agree with the Quinn School's policy re Macs, but for you to continue to advise the OP to buy one is just irresponsible and very strange.

c7 WILL experience problems with a Mac in the Quinn School. At worst they'll simply tell him to go away and get a new laptop, at best he'll have to use Boot Camp (and btw c7 I'd definitely get in touch with them about that, because I'm not too sure they'd be OK with it).

It baffles me that you can still try to mislead someone into making what could be a costly mistake after being told categorically that you are wrong.

Ernie Ball

Hang on a second. Current macs are PCs. You can make Windows your primary OS or even your only OS. They are similarly spec-ed to Dells and others.

If Quinn insists on PCs running Windows, there's no way they can object to a Mac running windows.

Red Alert

I can't see how they would either - if all else fails stick an 'IBM' sticker over the Mac logo while it's boot camped temporairly. (Technically I don't think they should be objecting to virtualised instances of XP/Vista either).

How would they feel about a vista machine running XP in VMWare for example? Do they block your ability to progress in your course or does it just mean you've no support?

Stabshauptmann

It just means youve no support.

Ive seen some guys from erasmus here with macs, but Ive known others to get rid of it and buy a dell.

If you feel you can manage, go for it. To be honest, you dont need the laptop in class *that* much, some classes will ban it. But when you do need it, if anything goes wrong, you have no fall back.

conor2007

i advised him/her - didnt tell them to buy it

quinn ask for windows - not dell or whatever

macs are easier for ''beginners'' or whatever word you used to the equivelant

why use wireless printing/wired printing

ucd give you mem sticks - in my opinion its easier to use them

boot camp isnt the best option - it does run windows natively and stable but still -but since you get it for ''free'' im just suggesting it

conor2007

''no fall back''

quinn it can fix some things - what if your hard drive is wiped or something happens with a virus

your screwed then cos dell support ''sucks balls''

Raphael

A) When you get a Quinn laptop, they ghost the hard drive. Their fixall is to take your laptop, format the hardrive, apply ghost, give it back to you as it was when tehy got it. This is a great system.

I've had a dell laptop for almost a year, during which time I have had a number of problems, 2 of which were major (PSU going ****ways, keyboard key getting lost). In the first case, dell sent out an engineer within a week, who replaced my motherboard. In the second case, they couriered me a new keyboard within a few days. That keyboard has currently stopped working, I emailed them yesterday and FULLY expect equally excellent treatement. Care to share the experiences on which you're basing your accusation that dell support "sucks balls"? It's not in anyway relevant to the matter at hand, just curious why you have a negative opinion to what, in my experience, is an excellent service and a very good reason to buy from dell.

graduate

Dell support might not be great, but if you buy a Quinn machine you have support other than dealing with Dell as an individual customer. It is this support with the ability to ghost disks etc that makes life so much easier for someone with a standard machine. A Mac with Windows might work, but it won't have the ease of use advantage and try getting support from anyone for this setup. A dual boot machine will not be easier for beginners.

conor2007

dell are known for making the laptops not for their customer care

if you buy from a shop - at least you can go back in and visit them

you can ghost the windows half (im sure) - more often than quinn would

Breezer

Bottom line is, if something goes wrong with your MacBook and you're going to be without it for even a day or two while it gets serviced, you have no excuse - you were told not to buy one. Your problem if you need it for tests in that period.

If something goes wrong with one of Quinn's supported laptops, you have a leg to stand on and have a better chance to force the staff to accommodate you.

OP - buy one of Quinn's supported laptops. The staff are incredibly anti-Mac, and regardless of how stupid that stance is, you're not going to change it. You'll regret buying a Mac if you do. Buy an Apple laptop in 3 years when you qualify if you like.

(Written on my MacBook, which I love and would never consider exchanging for a Dell or similar if I had the choice.)

ucdperson

if you buy from a shop - at least you can go back in and visit them

and if you get a standard Quinn laptop you can drop it in there, stick your hard disk into a spare machine, head back to class, while your laptop is sent off to Dell for repair.

you can ghost the windows half (im sure) - more often than quinn would

You can do this anyway. But who bothers?

The staff are incredibly anti-Mac, and regardless of how stupid that stance is,

Why is this unreasonable, business almost universally uses PCs, so why is a PC platform not a reasonable choice for a business school? It is easy to say that you can have Macs with Parallels and so on, but would you want to support this on 2000 machines operated by Commerce students, most of whom had no interest in computing whatsoever.

Raphael

conor2007 wrote: »

dell are known for making the laptops not for their customer care

if you buy from a shop - at least you can go back in and visit them

you can ghost the windows half (im sure) - more often than quinn would

They are "Known" are they?

I am telling you, from personal experience, that dell tech support is incredible, and since you don't seem to have evidence of any kind to the contrary, then please stop propogating rumours.

Breezer

ucdperson wrote: »

Why is this unreasonable, business almost universally uses PCs, so why is a PC platform not a reasonable choice for a business school? It is easy to say that you can have Macs with Parallels and so on, but would you want to support this on 2000 machines operated by Commerce students, most of whom had no interest in computing whatsoever.

Sorry, I should clarify my statement: "regardless of how stupid you perceive this to be". I accept that most businesses use Windows, and I accept the reasons why. I also accept that Quinn supporting Macs would require a lot of time and expense.

To those suggesting Quinn should support Macs running Windows in some manner, it's not that simple - Macs use a completely different booting architecture to PCs, for example. To the end-user, a Mac running Windows under Boot Camp is a PC. To support staff, it's something different

Again, before I get flamed - I am a huge Apple fan, am using a MacBook to write this, and would never use a PC if given the choice. However, having previously shouted ad complained about Quinn's policy, I have now (grudgingly) accepted that institutions have the right to set their own IT policies.

Stabshauptmann

conor2007 wrote: »

i advised him/her - didnt tell them to buy it

You present your opinions as fact, and despite being shown more than once your assumptions about Quinn to be incorrect continue to act like an expert on the matter.

quinn ask for windows - not dell or whatever

Their requirements are a little more specific than just windows, it must be Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (English), other versions of windows or even other versions of XP will not be accepted.

macs are easier for ''beginners'' or whatever word you used to the equivelant

Another example of your opinion, not any fact.

And the above segment is a prime example of the terrible grammar which makes your posts hard to read. Note, Im not so anal as to complain of the odd typo, nobody really expects perfect grammar, but Ive had to read most of your posts twice to figure out what you're trying to say. There is a general lack of grammar and coherency in your posts

why use wireless printing/wired printing

There is no wireless printing in the Quinn school. Network-Printing can only be done over the wired network.
If you cant access the wired network your problems go far beyond printing, you cannot participate in e-learning assessments. This is a serious problem.

ucd give you mem sticks - in my opinion its easier to use them

It is easier to always carry your memory stick, save your file to it, walk to another building, que for a machine, print, and come back to Quinn than to simply press the print button in word and get your printing from the Machine right beside you?
/edit: Thats a rather insensible, idiotic opinion!

What are the possible advantages to what you are suggesting?

conor2007

okay

imo , you will have less problems with the macbook

but im not in quinn school.