Highland Radio-Bulgaria's Abandoned Children

hi-fi

This draft letter speaks for itself, please send on to our MEP's-the link is http://www.europarl.ie/irish_con_norhtwest.html. Also this site is for anyone wanting to help http://www.tbact.org/root.aspx?pointerid=3773acbb514248069099b93f4140d1d1

Dear MEP,

I feel obliged to get in touch with you after hearing on Highland Radio, the appalling treatment of children in government run homes in Bulgaria. The catalogue of abuse that was aired in a BBC documentary on Sunday last, had men and women who were very distressed by it, phoning in to the Shaun Doherty show today. Even though I did not see the documentary myself, I found it very disturbing to hear people, who were obviously very upset, describe what they saw and how they felt about it. Shaun Doherty said it was the biggest public response they ever had.
A lot of the calls on the show today were from people saying that we should boycott Bulgaria as a holiday destination and I totally agree with this, some people were upset because they had holidayed in Bulgaria unaware that this was going on only a few miles away from them.
I would like to know what the EU are going to do about it, Bulgaria as a full member state, must be held accountable. They should be made prosecute the people involved and insure this treatment stops for good. Surely there are human rights laws being broken here, does the EU have any power to do anything about this?

Yours

hi-fi

BBC2 aired a show about Bulgarian orphanages that was very disturbing indeed, special needs children malnourished, abused, neglected and enduring a slow cruel death.
Highland radio in Donegal has been inundated with callers asking what can be done. The country is quite corrupt so it doesn't look like throwing money at it will do any good.
The Bulgarian government are not doing anything or even admitting the problem.
Why don't we hit them where it hurts-their pockets- they should be made prosecute the people involved and insure better lives for these kids who have no voice. The MEP's say that the EU is powerless to dictate change to an individual country even though Bulgaria is a full member.
Cou;d you lie by a pool in a luxury holiday complex knowing that children are enduring a living hell a few miles away??

Owen

hi-fi wrote: »

Cou;d you lie by a pool in a luxury holiday complex knowing that children are enduring a living hell a few miles away??

Probably. People seem to have no issue doing so in China, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc.

Doodee

ned78 wrote: »

Probably. People seem to have no issue doing so in China, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc.

exactly!

and where did my previous post go?

hi-fi

Your previous post was in Travel & Holidays which has been locked.
I think it's sad to have no humanity or concience.

InFront

Is the documentary available online? Have been looking on bbc.co.uk but can't seem to find it there...

dr_manhattan

In fairness, if you boycott Bulgaria it's going to be the poorest that feel it, right?

My own solution would be to try and contact people in the country directly, and help them yourself... complicated but possible.

But fixing this problem? As has been said above, the world is basically 15% of the world sitting by swimming pools while 85% starve.

Rev Hellfire

dr_manhattan is totally correct in my opinion.
I suspect you'll find pretty much the same and if not worse in most developing countries. Hitting them financially will not help if anything it'll make a bad situation worse.
Even in Ireland most of the respite services are offered by non-government groups (John of gods been a notable one) and in certain cases HSE services are been moved to the groups like Enable Ireland to circumvent the HSE hiring ban.

The video was available on google
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9176914173325307126&q=BULGARIA%27S+ABANDONED+CHILDREN&total=4&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

hi-fi

But Bulgaria is a full EU member state.
The EU can dictate that bananas be a specific size and shape, they're doing away with light bulbs in little over a years time but they can't dictate to a member state's government on how their citizens are treated.
I feel this would be a good way to squeeze the Bulgarian government, they'd loose a lot of revenue if Irish visitor numbers dropped, they may even listen if there was only a threat of this happening.
I disagree that the poorest people will feel the pinch the most, these kids could not be subjected to anything worse than the situation they face at the moment.

Rev Hellfire

While those that are currently in care might not fair worse (although Romanian orphans might disagree), the worsing of the economic situation could cause those parents who are currently minding their kids to place them in care also.
Added to which economic woes have an impact on the overall health budget and as is always the case those on the margins of the service will typically suffer the most.

I would suggest the best way to improve their lot is to improve the economic situation in the country. You should in fact be doing the exact opposite to what you propose.

dr_manhattan

In essence, the rev has it. I mean, come on:

"I disagree that the poorest people will feel the pinch the most, these kids could not be subjected to anything worse than the situation they face at the moment."

1. Yes they damn well could, there are a million examples all over the world. Child soldier under Charles Taylor? Child sex object for the thai tourist trade? One thing I've learned in this world is that there is no such thing as "can't get any worse", especially for defenceless children. What about if you removed the orphanage, and they were just kids in a field?

2. Let's say tourists stopped coming to Ireland: who would suffer more, the politicians in the Dail or the kids in social services? Who would feel the immediate effect in terms of bedclothes and hot meals? Can you explain why so many Iraqi children died during the boycott there, yet Saddam Hussein managed to rebuild an army?

3. I don't mean to be harsh, but if the subject concerns you so much, why not go to bulgaria and try and do something positive? The people who made the documentary will be easily contactable, they will be able to give you names and addresses. One single person willing to work for these kids will accomplish more direct effect in a month than a year of boycotts.

If you want to help a situation, IMHO it's better to add to it by giving than to take something away. To say that removing money from a country will improve things for the poorest in that country is nothing short of absurd. If things worked that way there would be no such thing as poor people.

Goldenquick

The particular home that was featured in the documentary has now been closed and the Director sacked, thank God.

I was horrified watching the programme and like many others I'm sure, came on the internet immediately to find out what was being done about it.

In the passionate discussion session that followed the film, reactions of non-culpability shot forth from those representing the Government, countering and being countered by their NGO counterparts and Blewett.

The floor was given first to Blewett, who expressed the wish that each child have a loving family home, to which Hristova concurred, and explained that the Labour and Social Policy Ministry had sent letters to each of the families with a child at the social care home in Mogilino, explaining the process of closing down remote institutes and the overall "de-institutionalisation" of such places, suggesting that the parents become involved with their children's fates. Only three families responded; there are more than 65 children living in the former schoolhouse in Mogilino.

Source: http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/debate-on-bulgarias-abandoned-children/id_25994/catid_66

muffler

A noble cause but maybe we would be better off lobbying our TD's & Ministers about the homeless in our own country first.

Moved to humanities

Goldenquick

There's no harm in expressing feelings experienced whilst watching a horrifying documentary imho.

dr_manhattan

"There's no harm in expressing feelings experienced whilst watching a horrifying documentary imho."

Absolutely not: however I do think it's strange that passive verbs seem to come into play so often when discussing these things:

"...came on the internet immediately to find out what was being done about it."

People seem to express their horror by saying that something "should be done" about it. Not that they're actually going to do anything, but that they are going to - in the strongest possible sense - wait for someone else to.

Air fare is cheap these days, almost as cheap as talk. Things in eastern europe are very cheap. We are a nation of millionaires. Now, I *sincerely* am not trying to wind anyone up or piss on anyone's sentiments: I am not trying to be an internet smartarse. But I am really wondering why it never occurs to anyone to do anything about this themselves...?

Has consumer society turned us into a bunch of useless fools who sit beside news media, like a cat beside a tap, hoping that something "will be done" about things?

Again, I am not flaming anyone nor implying that goldenquick is a useless fool - I fully appreciate the feeling of wanting to help a situation and think people are to be praised for it (there we go again, passive verb ;-)) - but what has happened to us as people? Have we become this passive?

Irish people used to go all over the world and do incredible things: the US navy and the mexican government bear witness to our efforts, sane and insane. Hell, even whatsisname in capetown is doing great things.

The kind of money that will fix these situations is small compared to the mortgages that we spend our lives repaying. The kind of effort involved is nothing compared to the weekends spent hunting down a deckchair in Ikea.

And muffler has a point, too: we *would* be better off fixing our own problems before meddling in the affairs of another nation. We seem to find other nations' children more sympathetic than those that wander our streets. But whatever: actually *doing* something is the point, rather than waiting until the parish collection is passed to us. Not just standing at the sidelines and roaring abnout how something "should be done" about this.

Goldenquick

Your point is well taken and I would like to reply as to how I see the situation also .

I went on the internet to see what was being done about it because the documentary was first aired on 13th Sept. so it was a reasonable assumption on my part that by the time I saw it, which was over 1 month later, steps would have been taken by the EU to get into talks with the Bulgarian goverment to rectify the situation, which I saw by the site I visited had been done. (I cannot find that site now btw).

If I had seen the documentary on 13th Sept when it was first aired I would have contacted every MEP I could get hold of to ask what was being done and if there was any way that I could help.

I can honestly say that I have never seen a child wander streets in my life. If I did, is there anything I could do about it? In a country town yes, I would find out who the child was and contact the Gardai or their parents more than likely, as everyone generally knows each other but that dosen't happen here, children don't wander the streets, except our teens, my own included. I have heard of it happen in Dublin, I don't know what I would do in that situation, but if I could help them I would.

I do give to charities in Ireland, I don't just sit around and hope that someone up the road will do it and think, 'ah well, he's given so I don't need to as well'.

I was just as shocked watching a programme tonight about The Nuremberg trials, I know I've read all about it before but to see the re-enactment of it had me swearing at the characters, an extreme reaction I know as it's not going to help anyone but it was the same reaction I had to the programme about the Bulgarian social home.

This thread was started about a particular programme and I was simply putting my views to it .

hi-fi

I totally agree about looking to our own doorstep first, I do actively support a couple of Irish charities and am involved in one international one.

The problem I see with the situation in Bulgaria is that there is only one trustworthy charity involved (to my knowledge) and they are severely under manned. The country is very corrupt so throwing money at it isn't going to fix it.
I disagree that a fall off in tourism will effect these children in any way what so ever, but it would pinch the property developers and government. Even if the government cut funds to childrens' homes, the kids are either dying or waiting to die and death would seem the better option.

And from a personal and maybe irrational point of view, I could not enjoy a holiday somewhere knowing that their special children are treated like this, good luck to anyone who can. As for going out there and physically doing something about it, I'd love to but I have people depending on me here, so all I can see to do is make as much noise about it as I can and keep lobbying TD's, MEP's and the Bulgarian embassy.

dr_manhattan

"Even if the government cut funds to childrens' homes, the kids are either dying or waiting to die and death would seem the better option"

I notice that before you seriously entertain the idea of actually going there and doing something about it, you are able to make the judgement on those childrens' behalf that death is the better option.

You say that you'd love to go and help, but you have responsibilities here?

Everyone has responsibilities everywhere, that's why orphans starve. You are asking other people to fix something that upsets you, but which you are not prepared to compromise your life for. A property developer would say "I'd love to help, but my responsibility is to my investors". A government minister would say "I'd love to help, but my responsibility is to XYZ"

I think you oversimplify these problems by saying "someone should fix this" - as if the entire thing is down to one or two corrupt politicians or ten or twenty property developers. The system is completely broken, and we have to recognise that if we're not willing to seriously challenge ourselves to do something, then nobody else is.

Who was it said that 'evil is the inaction of good people'? (and is there an abbreviation like 'sp?' for noting that you've misquoted someone?)

"I could not enjoy a holiday somewhere knowing that their special children are treated like this, good luck to anyone who can."

You are, right now, on holiday in wonderland compared to 80% of the world. You enjoy freedoms such as a 40 hour week and child labour laws and maternity laws, rights to free speech and assembly, and a neverending supply of consumer goods and then means to buy and power them.

The reason that we can be so wealthy while the rest of the world starve is because we steal their resources and divide them unfairly amongst ourselves, leaving casualties left, right and centre outside of europe and america.

It's quite simple, really.

You are "somewhere" and you know that right "nearby" you is misery and poverty in forms you cannot imagine. What does distance matter anyway?

We are in the EU. We are a part of this. You can sit pretty on an Island off the west coast of europe and pretend that you're not - check the countries of manufacture on all your household goods, they come from far away too, a magical land of cheap inexhaustible labour filled with orphanages and factories, often in the same building.

And btw, because tone is hard to communicate across the web, I'm not harassing you or saying "put up or shut up". I'm giving my opinion that, in this horrendously corrupt world, the only things we can truly accomplish in the bigger picture is to set ourselves single tasks and do them for ourselves. Not canvass for support, or form a committee, but haul ass and wait for people to follow if we think it's the right thing to do.

You're absolutely right to be as appalled as you are, and the last thing I want to be is some internet smartarse talking politics. But there is a massive bureaucracy between you and those children, which will dissipate your efforts unless you cut through the red tape and go fix it yourself.

Take your holiday there. Leave the poolside. Go help clear out a dormitory or mark a playing field. Establish some kind of relationship with someone in or near the orphanage you can trust. Remain in touch with them. bring something every year. Whatever: all you can do is affect small but positive change. If other people do it, great. If not, then you did it.

Ach, even rantier than usual this evening. Must be christmas ;-)

hi-fi

All I am asking is that if anyone sees this thread and feels the same way I do then send a few e-mails to the powers that be, it may not be as crusading as picking up and going to Bulgaria but believe me, most people do actually have responsibilities that they cannot, or would not, just drop. Who will look after the people here who currently depend on me?

You are asking other people to fix something that upsets you, but which you are not prepared to compromise your life for.
NO, and I think that you do not have sufficient personal information about me to make a judgement like this.

I think you oversimplify these problems by saying "someone should fix this" - as if the entire thing is down to one or two corrupt politicians or ten or twenty property developers. The system is completely broken, and we have to recognise that if we're not willing to seriously challenge ourselves to do something, then nobody else is.
I totally agree, so going back to my first post, please lobby your TD, MEP and Bulgarian Embassy if you feel the same.

Who was it said that 'evil is the inaction of good people'? (and is there an abbreviation like 'sp?' for noting that you've misquoted someone?)
I think that in order to miss quote someone you firstly need to give reference to that person.

You are, right now, on holiday in wonderland compared to 80% of the world. You enjoy freedoms such as a 40 hour week and child labour laws and maternity laws, rights to free speech and assembly, and a neverending supply of consumer goods and then means to buy and power them.
I'm surprised you feel the need to point out the obvious.

We are in the EU. We are a part of this. You can sit pretty on an Island off the west coast of europe and pretend that you're not - check the countries of manufacture on all your household goods, they come from far away too, a magical land of cheap inexhaustible labour filled with orphanages and factories, often in the same building.
Also stating the obvious but even here people can change things by trying to buy fair trade etc.


Take your holiday there. Leave the poolside. Go help clear out a dormitory or mark a playing field. Establish some kind of relationship with someone in or near the orphanage you can trust. Remain in touch with them. bring something every year. Whatever: all you can do is affect small but positive change. If other people do it, great. If not, then you did it.
Not everyone can go on holidays abroad, to Bulgaria or anywhere else.

dr_manhattan

Sorry but it's a simple and valid point: writing letters and emails achieves very little. If you are really determined to fix a problem you have to circumvent bureaucracy.

Charities, administrations and governments can only do so much: you act as if there are people somewhere who are happy about this situation, and are actively channelling money away from orphanages. This is the way the world works, people work for themselves and not for others: if you want to change it, you have to work on the problem.

"Not everyone can go on holidays abroad, to Bulgaria or anywhere else."

1. It was you that raised the issue of going on holidays, not me.

2. I note you say "people can't afford" rather than "I can't afford" holidays.

"I'm surprised you feel the need to point out the obvious."

Well, in fairness, you started it when you raised the issue of holidays: you don't have to go on holidays to be living in someone else's misery. If you don't feel holidays are an issue, then don't raise them. If you think that global poverty is "obvious", then don't point it out.

"I think that you do not have sufficient personal information about me to make a judgement like this."

Where does personal information come into it? You are saying that you are not prepared to travel to these areas and pitch in to the solution. That's not personal information, that's directly from your post.