Law Society Complaint - Advice Needed

Brendan552004

My wife and I through our solicitor took High Court injunction proceedings. We won the injunction, the other party had to cease and decease.

A couple of months after, we received a large bill for costs, we queried the costs, we had won the case, we were told that we owed the fees because the case had not gone to full hearing.

Before the case, costs were never mentioned only in the context of if we lost the case and we were assured that we had a good case and that we would win it.

A couple of days after the case my wife was diagnosed with cancer, over the last 2 years she has had a number of operations, chemo and has in fact had 2 procedures in the last 3 months.

Before or during the court appearance we were never notified in writing with regard to costs. Since the case the solicitor has built up a large file of communications including statements like "remember when I phoned your wife and discussed costs". My wife had one conversation with the solicitor involved, he did mention costs, he said "if we lose the case you will be liable for costs, but do not worry we have a very good case, the Judge had stated that it was a very well presented case, I have no doubt but we will win it." The phone call lasted 90 seconds.

I sought advice from another solicitor, he thought it was quite irregular, he thought that under the Solicitors Act we should have been notified in writing with regard to fees, costs.

We received a civil bill this morning, my wife has contacted the Solicitor involved and offered half the fees they are claiming, she just wants to get the worry off our backs.

If they do not accept the offer can we refer the matter to the Law Society . What does that entail, at this stage it is just our word against his, my wife is a member of a professional body, do we have to enter a defence.

We are very short of money, I had to give up my job to take over running the house & kids while my wife was undergoing treatment. She ended up on half wages, she is now back working part time as am I.

Your advice would be very much appreciated.

NoQuarter

if you read the charter youll see that advice cant be given on this forum, only answers to hypothetical questions for your own information!

Brendan552004

I am very sorry, I did read the charter, but I did not pick that up, I post on other boards, every board has a different charter.

Thank you

dats_right

Op, I have every sympathy for your current personal difficulties, but in fairness and without wanting to sound callous, it has very little to do with your issue with your solicitor.

It is a legal requirement that your solicitor should have provided you with, what is known as, a section 68 letter. This letter would have only set out in the most general of terms the basis on which your solicitor proposed charging, in all likelihood it would not have been possible to provide an accurate estimate owing to the complexity and uncertainty involved in injunctive cases (which are notoriously expensive anyway! 20k ++ is only a a very very rough guide). So in essence your solicitor ommitted to provide you with a letter that wouldn't have told you a lot anyway. Why didn't you ever ask your solicitor how much it was likely to cost?

I do feel some sympathy with your position OP, but your solicitor and counsel did exactly as you instructed and did so succesfully. Why then shouldn't you pay your fees? Make a complaint to the Law Society by all means, they will probably reprimand the solicitor if they did not send out a section 68 letter, but this won't mean that you don't pay. It is possible that you may end up getting a small % reduction but this isn't necessarily guaranteed either.

Brendan552004

Thank you for your reply. forget the cancer. I fully understood that if we lost the injunction proceedings we would be liable for costs. We did win the case.
There was no section 68 letter.

What I did not understand and it was not explained to me was that if we won or lost we would be liable to costs.

I thought that usually in injunction proceedings the loser pays.

Costs were only mentioned in the context of "you have a very good case and I think we will succeed"

What I can now see is that, the Solicitor was in a win win situation, he was going to get his fees anyway, I think he should have explained the costs implications to us in a clear and transparent way instead of trying to justify when the horse had bolted.

Is that not the reason why section 68 is in the Solicitors Act, I believe the section is there to protect people who do not have legal training and do not understand the workings of our legal system. If I had of known then, what I know now, I would not have proceeded with the knowledge that I was putting my family into debt.

OTK

Brendan, I had a solicitor who took on a case for me, and outlined the 'normal rate' and laughed saying that he 'wouldn't charge anything like that'. Over the next few weeks, despite repeated requests, he wouldn't issue me with an estimate. After a month, I asked him for an estimate of costs so far with a view to switching solicitor. Very little had happened so far but he still came up with a figure far in excess of what I imagined the whole case could cost.

I read the solicitors act and found that he was in breach on three grounds including not supplying me with a letter outlining costs. I complained to the law society who found him in breach, but decided that his costs were fair. The penalty for the solicitor was a 'reprimand' whatever the hell that is.

Complaining to the law society when you get done by a lawyer is like complaining to the muggers' society after you get mugged.

Never let a lawyer do any work for you without a written quotation in advance for costs. Also you need it in writing that you must pre-approve any additional costs in advance.

Brendan552004

Thank you very much OTK for your reply,

I offered them 50% of the costs, I would say a little bit against my better nature, but under pressure from my better half, the solicitors for the solicitor declined.

I am now 2 days into the serving of an ordinary civil bill, I telephoned the Solicitor who is acting for the practice on the other side, I have to say she was a breath of fresh air, she advised me that I had another forum to air my grieviences, without mentioning the forum, I said Law Society, she did not disagree.

I have to say that I do not hold out a lot of hope, compassion is not really a word that is appreciated in banking and I am now begining to understand in the legal profession.

The funny thing is, I quite like the Solicitor involved, I would not like him to be censured in any way. I do not think he handled the costs issue in a great way, he should not have agreed to a comprimise unless costs were included. Maybe he was not seasoned enough, maybe I should have gone for an older more experienced Solicitor.

I have no option but to lodge a complaint to the Law Society tommorrow and look for a stay on proceedings.

How do I look for a stay on proceedings, do I still have to lodge a defence to the Civil Bill, what defence do I lodge, do I say that my complaint may be investigated by the Law Society, I do not want judgement by default.

I would like to thank the moderators for their patience in this thread, I think that their is public interest, I do not have any other medium to look for advice, I do thank the people who have replied. There is no question of libel as no names have been published, nor will there be.

johnnyskeleton

Brendan552004 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. forget the cancer. I fully understood that if we lost the injunction proceedings we would be liable for costs. We did win the case.
There was no section 68 letter.

What I did not understand and it was not explained to me was that if we won or lost we would be liable to costs.

I thought that usually in injunction proceedings the loser pays.

When a person is successful in any civil court case, they are entitled to seek an order for their costs (i.e. that the other side pay their costs). Was an order for costs sought? Try to find out. It may be in your records.(hypothetically, if you had the record number of your case & photo ID you could try to find this out from the Central Office of the High Court). If your legal advisors did not seek an order for costs [draw your own conclusions here]. If they did seek costs and the Judge refused it, there is a hypothetical appeal to the supreme court on this point. If they did seek costs and costs were granted [draw your own conclusions here].

Brendan552004 wrote:

How do I look for a stay on proceedings, do I still have to lodge a defence to the Civil Bill, what defence do I lodge, do I say that my complaint may be investigated by the Law Society, I do not want judgement by default.

I understand that your opinion of solicitors may not be very high at the moment, but I must stress that if there are proceedings against you, you should seek legal advice. Try the legal aid board (they sometimes enjoy cases like these) or go to your local FLAC.

[skirts around the forum charter while distracting the mods with shiny things]
Hypothetically, if one were served with a Civil Bill, one would need to enter an apperance under Order 15 in the requisite form of the rules of the circuit court. After that, one might (or might not) have 10 days to enter a defence. This time limit can (and often is) extended where in the circumstances it would be appropriate. The defence needs to deny all paragraphs of the civil bill and must also include, in general terms, any legal or factual basis upon which the defendant will seek to defend themselves
[gets smacked full on by the forum charter while he's not looking]

Brendan552004

The other side agreed to cease in the corridor of the High Court, the two solicitors went back into Court and told the Judge that the matter had been agreed. The Judge reserved costs.

Beano

Brendan552004 wrote: »

The other side agreed to cease in the corridor of the High Court, the two solicitors went back into Court and told the Judge that the matter had been agreed. The Judge reserved costs.

while it sounds like the solicitor didnt advise you properly regarding the awarding of costs the fact the judge has reserved costs means your pretty much stuck with paying your own legal fees. I was on the other side of an injunction attempt 10 years and i ended up paying my own costs even though the injunction attempt against me was not successful. Something in the region of £10K if i remember correctly.

OTK

You can also try the Solicitor's disciplinary tribunal http://www.distrib.ie/
(structured so that a majority of people investigating complaints are themselves solicitors)

or you can have the costs assessed by the taxing master
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/office_of_the_taxing_master

Brendan552004

Thank you very much all of you for your help & advice, I have instructed a Solicitor to defend the action today. Apparently the reason the case did not go to full hearing was because the Solicitors on the other side were going to strongly contest costs being awarded because of unprofessional conduct by my Solicitor. Some way or another the letter between Solicitors ended up in my documentation, I only discovered it today. There was a threat of reporting to the Master of the High Court, and an action of defamation because an article had been leaked to the newspapers when it was sub judice (I studied latin). Seems like I am piggy in the middle.

johnnyskeleton

Brendan552004 wrote: »

I have instructed a Solicitor to defend the action today.

I'm glad to hear that because it sounds like there might be the makings of a good defence / counterclaim from what you've told us.

Best of luck.

Victor

As I understand things.

John injuncts Paul due to claimed excessive smell emanating from John's restaurant. The injunction is granted and at trial a ruling is given and damages and costs are awarded to the winner.

John and Paul are each responsible for paying their own solicitors. The loser pays the winner. Even if the loser doesn't pay the winner, the principals are responsible for paying their own solicitors. Now, solicitors are practical and are often willing to allow their clients some time to pay.

---

Peter injuncts Thomas due to claimed excessive noise emanating from John's building site. The injunction is granted and the matter doesn't proceed to trial for whatever reason.

Peter and Thomas are each responsible for paying their solicitors. As there has been to proper decision in the case, a judge is unlikely to award costs, expecially as there is the possibility that the complainant will lose at trial.

---

Now while I imagine judges and the Law Society are loathe to blame clients for the alleged errant ways of their solicitors, the threat of a complaint of such appears to have been enough to be off-putting in this case.

hullaballoo

This is ridiculous. I've a good mind to ban everyone who posted in this thread outright. If people contnue to post, either requesting or giving legal advice, in this forum, I'm going to request to have the forum closed for posting.

I don't have the time to devote to this forum to ensure that every single post comes within the charter guidelines. I acknowledge that in my position, I should be able to give it more time but be that as it may, I simply don't. As such, I rely heavily on posts being reported that are in breach of the forum rules.

You can take this as being a first and final warning.