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Warm fuzzy feeling etc.
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15-11-2007 2:14pm#1
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I think it's one element of testing an experience. The Bible would, for me, be a more important way of testing stuff.I agree with this sentiment. However, do you think that at times that the 'warm fuzzy feeling' is in fact Holy Spirit or Gods Presence etc? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to suggest, that if you do good things after a warm fuzzy feeling, its from God, if not, its not from god? Did i pick you up correctly? If i did, then i still see a huge vagueness in such an experience.
Paul was an apostle but he had to catch a boat to get from A to B instead of just being beamed up, Star Trek-style, by faith. Paul also advised Timothy to take a little wine as a remedy for his weak stomach.I get what you are saying, but is this not faith watered down? Jesus tells us that if we have faith the size of a mustard seed, we can tell a mountain to move! or was that specifically to his apostles who had been given such power?
Actually it was like that, instant and with no medicine. However, that was 11 years ago and I've not personally experienced such dramatic healing since, but then again I haven't been so sick.I think I recall you saying you had a stomach issue while in Africa that was cured miraculously? Was it dramatic apostlic like healing? No medicine, and abslutely cured at the moment the spirit came upon you? You have no doubt whatsoever that this was a spiritual healing?
No, that doesn't look very apostolic to me either.I know the net is not an authority on everything However, al the things I have loked up regarding miraculous healings etc, are still not apostolic instances. I seen a crippled man told to walk, he walks, but still looks like he struggles a hell of alot with doing it. i suppose, there is nothing I've seen that would be a sign of God in action in these things. As for complacency, what do you mean? complacent how?
As for complacent - we don't really need miracles very often. When people lack the basic necessities to stay alive then prayer is a matter of life and death.0 -
ok, basically there is a couple of things I'd like to discuss, I am not having a dig, and my view is not to offend or inflame. (Brian, I know your Son has been sick etc, so I'm not attempting to undermine your view, though some of your posts regarding it got me thinking) I may be well off the mark, but at this moment in time it expresses how I feel. I'd love some Christian input.
Glad my posts got you thinking.1. 'That warm fuzzy feeling'. It is so vague. I have experienced what many have described, but so what! Haven't other religious folk (non-christian) also? Is it just pushing ourselves into believing that God is present with us. I have been moved to tears, shame, joy etc, however, I tend to wonder if I am just feeding my own emotions and my strong wanting to feel 'gods presence' makes me decieve myself..
There is a definite difference between the peace we felt in the waiting room of the hospital vs the peace we feel as we go into a football match.
Jesus does rpomise that where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name I will be with them. So Jesus being with us in the waiting room of the hospital is scriptural. I also think that He made His presence known to us as a comfort.2. prayer, healing etc. why do we pray to guide the doctor to be competant etc.? Why not pray for our sick to be healed? Why don't we have faith in god enough to go without conventional medicine? If someone has cancer, and they are christian, then why don't they have all the family laying on their hands and praying for their health to return. Why do people pray that 'the doctors and the medicines work'? I just find it odd? If God is going to be gracious enough to intervene, then surely he'd intervene in a way more than just helping the doctors?.
In this type of prayer you are basically asking for God's intervention. For Him to be with the surgeons as they do their work.
There are very gifted doctors out there (my sons surgeon is brilliant at heart surgery). God has given him that gift and heart for heart surgery and God revels in the enjoyment that the doctor gets out of healing people.
As it is with the entire medical profession. The doctors and nurses are using their God given gifts to heal.3. Do we see the gifts of the spirit in action today, in the same way it would have been seen in apostolic times?
Thanks.
Not so much here in our first world countries. Too bad actually. We see it in turned around lives but taht would be about it.
I do hear from our missionaries of miraculous stuff happening in Africa, Central America and South East Asia.0 -
I think it's one element of testing an experience. The Bible would, for me, be a more important way of testing stuff.
I like your concept of 'testing'. To be specific, if you got the 'warm fuzzy feeling', how would you test if its from God?Paul was an apostle but he had to catch a boat to get from A to B instead of just being beamed up, Star Trek-style, by faith. Paul also advised Timothy to take a little wine as a remedy for his weak stomach.
I take your point. Have you an opinion on why this was the case?Actually it was like that, instant and with no medicine. However, that was 11 years ago and I've not personally experienced such dramatic healing since, but then again I haven't been so sick.
I'm sorry to probe on this. Were you in this state all the way up to the moment the laying of hands occured. Again, I'm sorry for probing, I just want to get as accurate a picture as I can.As for complacent - we don't really need miracles very often. When people lack the basic necessities to stay alive then prayer is a matter of life and death.
Do you think people have enough in the scriptures to have Faith in God? I.E. No signs etc are necessary. The apostles used signs of Gods power to reveal The Living God to the various peoples of the nations, is that what they are for? As testimony of God. this may explain why Africa experience such signs, they are getting the testimony now? We have inherited the message through our fore-fathers acceptance of it, so we don't need such signs? maybe?0 -
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BrianCalgary wrote: »Glad my posts got you thinking.
Its all you can ask for really isn't it. That you can provoke thought. I often think, even in arguements that go nowhere, maybe when that person is alone something you said may have just provoked thought.
....Anyway.There is a definite difference between the peace we felt in the waiting room of the hospital vs the peace we feel as we go into a football match.
Jesus does rpomise that where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name I will be with them. So Jesus being with us in the waiting room of the hospital is scriptural. I also think that He made His presence known to us as a comfort.
Indeed I agree with the scriptural basis for Christ being present. However, its how its manifested. I am not denying that you had sense of calm due to Holy Spirit. However, I think the whole 'warm fuzzy feeling' thing can be very deceptive. I think we can invoke it on ourselves at different emotional times. Such a want to feel that God is there can make you feel such a way. Thats all. I've seen people say that they know God exists based on this feeling. I just think its a very emotionally driven, and very ambiguous scenario. My love for my wife, gives me that feeling at certain times. When I read the Gospels I get that feeling at certain times. Personally I think its just overwhelming emotion, however this is just an opinion of mine.In this type of prayer you are basically asking for God's intervention. For Him to be with the surgeons as they do their work.
There are very gifted doctors out there (my sons surgeon is brilliant at heart surgery). God has given him that gift and heart for heart surgery and God revels in the enjoyment that the doctor gets out of healing people.
As it is with the entire medical profession. The doctors and nurses are using their God given gifts to heal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying modern medicine is a gift from God? I could say, that rather than a doctor having a gift, he spent 8 years studying anatomy books, which are the accumilation of hundreads of years of research. Some of it very shady research, I.E. Human experimentation. I am a very good singer, and humble as you can see:D, but I would not say that it is a gift from god in such a direct way. It is a gift in the same way that life is a gift. He has created us with certain features which can manifest themselves in certain ways, such as vocal chords being tuneful. I would be very sceptical in presenting such things as gifts from god in such a way. Everything is a gift from God indirectly in that without him there would be nothing. But I detect that you are saying he is working through the doctor? I suppose I'd ask, is there any biblical instances where God works in such a way? I suppose what I would ask is: Did this way of looking on things originate out of people feeling that there was little action seen anymore, as regards the gifts of the spirit, so they started to say, Its just that he's now operating in a different way. I mean, if a loved one has a masectomy, then goes through Chemo, and come out well on the other side; why would you call that God in action? This is something that could happen to a Satan worshipper is it not? These are genuine questions, I'd liked reasoned out.Not so much here in our first world countries. Too bad actually. We see it in turned around lives but taht would be about it.
I do hear from our missionaries of miraculous stuff happening in Africa, Central America and South East Asia.
So we are acknowledging that God works in this way still? Yet, when something exhibits little evidence of divine intevention, such as a doctor nursing a patient back to health, we still attribute it to Gods working through the doctor?
We are told to be wary of false prophets, who will give great signs etc. If we believe God acts in such ambiguous ways, does that not leave us suceptible to Satans trickery?0 -
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Well, to use an obvious example, if you get the warm fuzzy feeling when you're actively participating in something that the Bible says is sinful, then that would indicate that the feeling is probably not God.
However, if the feeling comes at times when the Bible specifically promises God's presence (eg while worshipping or praying) then that is a good indication.
But this means that we can get this feeling without God. So why would you believe that it is God at certain times? Why not just think that you are having an emotional experience?My symptoms matched those of 'rice water cholera' - an epidemic of which was hitting the community where I was staying. I could barely stand, was vomiting, could not drink a glass of water without immediate bowel movement, and had crapped 26 times in one night. Some African Christians laid hands on me and I stopped vomiting straight away. They fed me some rice and chicken, then put me in a car for a long journey over bumpy roads to my next speaking engagement. The chicken remained in place in my stomach! No vomiting & no more craps. It was very dramatic.
Indeed, it certainly sounds like you were blessed. What an amazing feeling you must have had?Like a credit card company offering an interest free 6 months to new customers?
Wouldn't quite put it like that. But if anything is going to show someone that you are not just a charlatan, its a divine sign. On a side note, One of my favourite stories is the one about Elijah and the Baal worshippers. Brilliant:D 0
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