Clontarf Golf Club

Mister Sifter

Looks like it could well be no more soon enough... and who could blame the members with that deal on the table!! It's not the best course in the world, but it's still enjoyable and a good challenge. I take it the Lord Mayors would just be transfered to Portmarnock? All in all, it would be sad to see one of the older courses go.

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Taken from the Irish Independent @ http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/huge-windfalls-on-offer-as-clontarfs-dday-looms-1218749.html

Huge windfalls on offer as Clontarf's D-Day looms

Clontarf Golf Club's 'Day of Destiny' is Tuesday November 27. That evening at Croke Park -- chosen because of the large numbers -- full members will be entitled to vote on the buy-out deal offered by Capel Developments.

A "Yes" vote requires a two-thirds majority, but if that is achieved then those full members will be in line for a €100,000 payment each.

Every other membership section of the club, except the juniors, will also share in a financial bonanza worth €75m, a €15m increase on the original offer made on September 19.

In addition the club will gain ownership of Portmarnock Links, the Bernhard Langer-designed seaside course, and will have a 28,000sq foot Clubhouse and practice facilities built for them.

And the final carrot is €20m cash provided for club funds, in addition to the payments that would be made to the members.

All this is dependent on Dublin City Council rezoning the land on which Clontarf GC is currently situated from sporting use to Residential Use or to Mixed Residential and Commercial Use.

An outline time scale for all this to happen would at best be 18 months, but it could take up to three years.

Meanwhile, if the members give their approval for the deal on Tuesday week, Capel will pay the club a non-refundable €1m as a goodwill gesture once the deal is signed.

There is also provision for another €2m, index linked, to be paid if for any reason the closing date for the deal (December 31, 2010) needs to be extended.

The money is the focus of attention right now, but the future of the golf club would be assured on an excellent links layout at Portmarnock.

This would provide golf all year round, provide good green fee income at a venue which has been well marketed abroad, and one which will no doubt help improve the standards of the younger Clontarf golfers in the future.

For now, the first issue is: Who gets what, and how much?

- Full voting members (approx 670): €100,000 each.

- Lady associates (women members who did not take up full membership): €22,000 each.

- Five-day members: €17,500 each.

- Intermediate members: €16,500 each.

- Bowling Club members: €5,000 each.

- Clubhouse and country members: €1,000 each.

- Junior members: Nil.

In addition, Capel will enter into "good faith" negotiations with the Bowling Club members for their specific requirements.

The cash payments would be subject to Capital Gains Tax of 20pc, leaving the members with a handsome and un-expected bonus for their membership.

Clontarf has traditionally been a friendly and family-based club and that will enhance the deal for some households.

Some families would have a number of full members while others would have a mixture of Full, Lady Associate and/or Intermediate or Five-Day members.

For example, in the case where a family has two full members, an Intermediate member and a Lady Associate membership, the total gain, upon a "Yes" vote on November 27 would be €238,500.

Positives

Despite the positives, there are some members who will reject the deal, mainly older members who appreciate the homely and comfortable surroundings of the present club site in Dublin 3.

However as Mount Temple School borders the golf club, and it is also hemmed in by the Malahide Road, Collins Avenue and the Railway Line, there are no guarantees that the club could be assured of maintaining its space in the long term.

The club had to seriously shorten its 12th hole some years ago to facilitate a DART car park, and that was unfortunate, as the 12th was the feature hole of the course. Most of the Clontarf members who have played Portmarnock Links in recent weeks have been impressed with the quality of the course.

Clontarf members will get heavily discounted green fees at the links in the interim period between signing a deal and completion, assuming the members vote in favour on November 27.

f22

A great deal, even without the cash if you asked me. Far better golf course, although the old boys will struggle when the wind blows (nearly always)

DJB

I like that course. My cousins a member (not sure what type) so I think I'll have to hit him for a few pints when/if it comes through!

WHIP IT!

DJB wrote: »

I like that course. My cousins a member (not sure what type) so I think I'll have to hit him for a few pints when/if it comes through!

Post his name here and we'll ALL hit him for a scoop sure!

stringy

I may be wrong but.......

the deal isnt as easy as that. Dublin City Council own most of the land and Clontarf only have a lease on it, they do own some of the ground but not the amount that would equal the value of the whole offer. The land is zoned as green space (specifically a golf club). The windfall isn't guaranteed yet because all this is yet to be determined.

it's an interesting story, wouldnt mind being a member though with this potential!!

copacetic

stringy wrote: »

I may be wrong but.......

the deal isnt as easy as that. Dublin City Council own most of the land and Clontarf only have a lease on it, they do own some of the ground but not the amount that would equal the value of the whole offer. The land is zoned as green space (specifically a golf club). The windfall isn't guaranteed yet because all this is yet to be determined.

it's an interesting story, wouldnt mind being a member though with this potential!!

agreed, they are basically trying to sell on land that doesn't belong to them.

f22

They only actually own around 12 acres of the site (Donneycarney end), the rest is on a 100 year lease. So agreed, whatever they get you can be guaranteed the corpo could easily skupper the whole deal.

On a positive note, that 12 acres alone is worth a mint and they are getting a class course with amazing clubhouse.

Golf Ninja

If they dont accept the deal they would never live it down.

I cant see how they could not except it however the members are generally over 60 and there is a good social element the club.

We will have to wait and see

blackbelt

I am an intermediate member in Clontarf Golf Club.If the yes vote is passed,would I be guaranteed 16,500 or is this only a proposal in the works.I find it all very hard to take in.

f22

blackbelt wrote: »

I am an intermediate member in Clontarf Golf Club.If the yes vote is passed,would I be guaranteed 16,500 or is this only a proposal in the works.I find it all very hard to take in.

As far as I am aware and it's from as reliable souce as you can get, this is the definitive proposal put to members. If that is accepted and the developers get planning permisssion from the corpo it's a done deal. From what I know though it could take up to 5 years to go through so don't go spending yet.

Whatever way you look at it you are getting a really great golf course so anything else is bonus. You already have a really good greenkeeper so once he works his magic on those links greens you'll never look back.

dcr22B

Motion carried to sell by a majority of 4-1.

Kind of regret giving up my membership but at least my Dad, Mum and brother will do well out of it.

MisterAnarchy

Graeme1982 wrote: »

In addition the club will gain ownership of Portmarnock Links, the Bernhard Langer-designed seaside course, and will have a 28,000sq foot Clubhouse and practice facilities built for them.

What happens the current members of Portmarnock ?
Where will they play ?

corkandproud

I dson't think any member can take cash from the deal. If so what about lapsed or deceased members.

Both Douglas and Dun Laoighre were not able to take a cash sum, all monies were lodged to the club.

dcr22B

corkandproud wrote: »

I dson't think any member can take cash from the deal. If so what about lapsed or deceased members.

Both Douglas and Dun Laoighre were not able to take a cash sum, all monies were lodged to the club.

Not true, I know of a member of Dun Laoghaire who got €250k for moving.

A New earth

Dun Laoghaire members got no cash personally. Club did.

stockdam

Sounds like it could be a good deal for the members.

But it's sad that a course that a lot of people enjoyed and put a lot of work into will be sold to make houses (sorry if I've misunderstood).

copacetic

stockdam wrote: »

Sounds like it could be a good deal for the members.

But it's sad that a course that a lot of people enjoyed and put a lot of work into will be sold to make houses (sorry if I've misunderstood).

well hopefully it won't happen. I understand why the members voted for this, but they are trying to sell land that doesn't belong to them. Most of the land it leased to them from the council (63 acres). It is our land if you like, hopefully the council put their foot down and stop the deal, certainly they can't let the golf club sell land that doesn't belong to them. If anyone was to make money on it it should be the council. That land could be used for a lot of social or affordable housing. Let clontarf sell off the small section they actually own (10 acres), nothing more.

Kaisr Sose

copacetic wrote: »

well hopefully it won't happen. I understand why the members voted for this, but they are trying to sell land that doesn't belong to them.

Irish Times today says the Council will block. Meaning the members miss out on their 100k. I heard that Capel Dev were looking at 2 clubs initially-Clontarf and Forest Little. Now that their pitch for Clontarf is foundering they may be back looking in Swords!

f22

Much as I would like to believe that the bid would move to Forrest Little I'd say it's fairly unlikely.. I never thought the Clontarf deal could materialise though. In Clontarfs case, how can you sell land that you merely lease? it doesn't make any sense. Even if the council gave permission, a huge portion of the land would have to remain green belt.

Having said that I'd gladly take the move to Portmarnock with no cash incentive at all.

corkandproud

There's a lot of other sports clubs waiting on the outturn on this.

Farranferris in Cork is also in the same boat regarding rezoning sports pitches.

MisterAnarchy

A bit off topic but how many acres does the golf course occupy ,75 is it ?
Thats bloody tiny for 18 holes.:D

f22

Yeah, I think it's about 74 acres alright which is tiny for a golf course. It's a par 69 and to be honest you can leave the woods in the bag everywhere bat two holes. Having said that the greens are really slick and it can be quite difficult to score on when running fast. Always in great condition.