Should airsofters be worried after toys4big boys?

ditpaintball

I was at the rds there today for a look around. (not a great show in general I though), but anyways, as I saw all the kids leaving the rds as I was walking in , they were ripping their newly purchased airsoft pistols out of their box and getting ready for god knows what. There surly was at least 6-8 stalls selling airsoft gear, from good to bad quality stuff from what i could see.

The question is, are you guys worried about this and what have you prepared in case any feckers do something stupid. Imagine that there is at least 300 more people who own airsoft guns now and most don't give a flying feck about respect for the sport.

Dave!

Yeah we're all concerned about the fact that there's no regulations on who can buy and sell the guns, that's one of the reasons why the IAA was set up. Not sure what the lads are doin to address it (you'd have to ask them), but it's certainly a concern.

The MIA and Eirsoft stalls are supposedly more discriminate in who they sell to, but since anyone can sell at the event, the kids can still get them.

Masada

DaveMcG wrote: »

The MIA and Eirsoft stalls are supposedly more discriminate in who they sell to, but since anyone can sell at the event, the kids can still get them.

yeah thats true of eirsoft at least, i was there today getting a few things and there was a kid about 15ish in front of me looking to buy an M1911 and shiva didnt give it to him until he saw the fella's father about it, they looked like respectful people but was good to see that the stuff wasnt just being handed to anybody and everybody.,;)

ditpaintball

Well in fairness, what can the IAA to at the minute only talk and make a big of noise. It has no powers just like the IPPA can do feck all either. Perhaps line of communication with the DOJ would be a an idea if not done so already.

I saw a couple of fathers buying them.... obviouly for the 12 year who was nagging at his back pocket. I just hope that we don't hear about some kid getting injured from a bb for all our sakes, airsoft and paintball.

padmundo

It's unfortunate that the other retailers, who are selling muck at highly inflated prices, are selling thrm to kids. We had to tell several kids to put their buys away.

"Our own" retailers, both Eirsoft and MIA are not selling to any juniors at least and I personally seen Shiva turn away two muppets who were putting the display guns to each others heads and they were over 18.

There will be some bad press in relation to the unregulated sales by the "quick buck" retailers but we hope that the positive image that both our retailers and the display teams put across will lead to some good.

Also cheers to yourself DIT for coming over and introducing yourself. It was good to hear your thoughts.

Oh and an example of the crap that was for sale.... a badly scaled "plastic" plastic Steyr Aug that was only .4 joules was 140 euro.

Masada

I saw a couple of fathers buying them.... obviouly for the 12 year who was nagging at his back pocket. I just hope that we don't hear about some kid getting injured from a bb for all our sakes, airsoft and paintball.

If the kid does take the p*ss with it then the father will have to take responsibility just as we would, its up to him to have a bit of intelegence and not let his son out in public with it., although the bloke i saw seemed like a respectable enough fella.,;)

Spitfire666

that doesnt always happen as we see every day with computer games. mothers buy them for their kids and then complain that games have too much blood gore and criminal elements in them.

lads have been pulled up on things by both mia and eirsoft as well as the ghosts while walking the floor doing something stupid.
Myself and gizmo were aproached by two lads in their 20s who said "why didnt you buy a big shotgun, you can rob a shop with one of them, thats what i got mine for"

Needless to say he was informed of my opinion on his IQ levels and i ignored him and walked away.
Younger lads were let hold the gear but were told to keep it pointed down ands pulled on it if they were pointing them at peoples heads, even though no gun was loaded with any BB's at any stage by any member of the ghosts or the contractors.

Gatling

one word ,actuly 2 words "Foooking IDIOTS" should any bad press come off boys4 ,the event organiser should be held responsible for allowing said IDIOTs sell cheap untested cheapsoft or what ever soft u want to call them ,as long as its not Airsoft ,selling to kids or any joe so that comes along ,boys4 can be a great for our sport ,but if they allow IDIOTs to appear and sell at the event then for the future boys4 strict 18s only and tight controls on sale of airsoft by retailers not reconised by the IAA

cherubaul

To answer the original question i believe that airsofters in ireland always need to be afraid and worried about the sport being abolished. To be fair the toys for big boys has not suddenly thrust "pellet guns" as the lay person calls it into the limelight. Markets have always been a showcase for cheap springers and lpegs even pre legalisation. and well arent that much different to the high end AEGs that we use as far as the public are concerned. If anything we can take heart in the Fact that Shiva and BFSL went out and represented Airsoft as a sport and a responsible form of recreation. rather than the "Jaysus wacker we can act like right S^%$heads with this" attitude that was up until this point the only perception that airsoft / "pelletguns" have had in the past.

Stercus Accidit

One stall had to be sent home for selling over the limit aegs before the show started, which I think means whoever it was got off very lightly.

I heard this from Tony on friday, I'm unsure of the details but that illegal aegs made it into the country and into the hands of cowboy distributers is worrying.

Im just a collector for now, have had a few aegs over the past year, but I am worried by this, it may be nothing new, just on a bigger scale, but the more people finding out about airsoft guns without any knowledge of the law or the sport, is worrying.

Gizmodeon

Every day since Thursday ejits have been going around pointing airsoft guns at peoples heads
We have had to tell numerous amounts of kids to put their guns away, and I even tried questioning some of them on who they bought it off with no luck

But on the brightside we represented the sport well, and people who genuinely wanted to start the sport have come up to us and asked us about where to go
I was even talking to a business man today about corporate parties with airsoft
paintball doesn't seem to get such a bad rap because its a "team building" excercise for corporates so that could be another way to put a friendly face on airsoft

To be honest the organisers could have probably listened to the teams about not selling at the event, but at the end of the day they've learnt their lesson and next year, they should know how to deal with the situation
The same thing happend with the IMVG in their first year of the show, and it's gone more smoothly since for them, because they knew what to expect, and how to deal with negative reviews from the public

Genghiz Cohen

cherubaul wrote: »

To answer the original question i believe that airsofters in ireland always need to be afraid and worried about the sport being abolished. To be fair the toys for big boys has not suddenly thrust "pellet guns" as the lay person calls it into the limelight. Markets have always been a showcase for cheap springers and lpegs even pre legalisation. and well arent that much different to the high end AEGs that we use as far as the public are concerned. If anything we can take heart in the Fact that Shiva and BFSL went out and represented Airsoft as a sport and a responsible form of recreation. rather than the "Jaysus wacker we can act like right S^%$heads with this" attitude that was up until this point the only perception that airsoft / "pelletguns" have had in the past.

" Markets have always been a showcase for cheap springers"
But now that they are legal, any shop can and does sell them all year, muppets will have seen the displays, and even if they were turned down by responsible retailers, can now go to a gadget shop and pick up a gun no questions asked.

As for the over the limit AEGs, that guy should have been locked up as an example to others.

Genghiz out!

Gatling

As always our own SHIVA the leading light in airsoft retail,
setting the standard along with MIA's Derek and Mark,

ED E

By the sounds of it i wouldn't be surprsied if your arent allowed back next year. I know MIA and Eirsoft did nothing wrong but with very similar products it will be all the sameto them.

see you all tomorow,
Lethal

Spitfire666

Another reason you shouldnt presume anything.

ditpaintball

so what is the plan of action if tomorrow, god forbid that there is some eejits hurt soon after playing with the toys that they bought at the rds?

I am just playing devils advocate here, not disregarding air soft or anything by the way.

JohnReisman

Gizmodeon wrote: »

To be honest the organisers could have probably listened to the teams about not selling at the event, but at the end of the day they've learnt their lesson and next year, they should know how to deal with the situation
The same thing happend with the IMVG in their first year of the show, and it's gone more smoothly since for them, because they knew what to expect, and how to deal with negative reviews from the public

Hi Giz

I dont know anything about the overpowered AEG's so I wont comment on that. But what I will say is that the organisers haven't impressed me at all. Despite multiple protests from different people the jokers like MMAD and others continued to sell to young kids. The organisers seemed unwilling to stop them but not unable to make wholesale changes to the demo. But then the demo party are not directly providing them revenue. The retailers like Tony and Derek and the other retailers are providing revenue. So whether they are trading intelligently (Tony and Derek) or acting like muppets they are still paying. So unless someone in authority says something about who is allowed sell airsoft next year I will be dreading what will be in the media more next year than I am already for this year.
Bottom line: The organisers dont care about airsoft.

Spitfire666

well not exactly, mia and eirsoft are not handing over anything to the organisers as far as i'm aware. at least they shouldnt be.
their is a number of comment along the lines of "**** what the law says" and "ours are (over 1J) more powerfull then theirs" being heard and mentioned back to me.

jscarr

Im new to airsoft. I havnt started yet and wont until my leaving cert passes. But i went to the show expecting just Eirsoft and MIA to be there but as soon as i entered a kid around 11 pointed a small springer at me. It angered me to see these stalls selling airsoft to kids, but even more seeing adults who are looking for replica guns to do something stupid with was worse. As i browsed the eirsoft and mia stand i noticed that they were very strict on who can buy and who can hold the guns, Which i personaly thought was the right way to deal with it. But at the end of the day this happens with every sport. Baseball bats and golf clubs used for assualt, Guns bought from Clay pigeon shooting clubs used to rob shops and banks. We will just have to keep our distance from these kind of people.

Gatling

shouldnt certain laws come into play ,or would that be a bad move for the sport ,i can see the headlines, amazing one of the lads got his distruction order this week and yet these IDIOTs are carrying on like that

ED E

The kid who pointed the springer at jscarr could have been done for armed assault if he hadnt known what it was. But thats never gonna happen so....

Boston

Personally I'm more worried about over the limit AEGs being sold.

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

The kid who pointed the springer at jscarr could have been done for armed assault if he hadnt known what it was. But thats never gonna happen so....

I think its far more likely some moronic kid/Adult will be killed by a garda officer.

ACW

I think if the IAA or independant airsofters complained to both organisers and maybe local law enforcement (please don't shout), about the lack of over 18's requirement at the other stalls, it would make a difference. TBH, MIA and Eirsoft were very busy and would be rather foolish of the Organisers not to listen to them. The public voice of dessent is a large thing, plus doubt non-airsoft punters at T4BB really enjoyed the children/intelligence challenged pointing weapons at them so if you see something, report it to the event staff/security or write a letter etc.

Spitfire666

believe it or not, the gards that were working there have bought stuff and are into airsoft too. i saw 3 who came back when they finished work and spent a fw hundred quid.

when meetings where being held with organisers, we told them how bad an idea it was t be selling airsoft guns at the show. it was something we were going to set as a condition to eirsoft and mia getting the stall but with all the retailers that WERE selling, it wouldnt have been fair to do that and wouldnt have done us any favors.

I spoke with the grdai there a few times and put them wide to a few things that were going on and they were happy enough with us (ghosts/contractors/mia/eirsoft)

Masada

I think its far more likely some moronic kid/Adult will be killed by a garda officer.

Personally i dont think its fair to judge them as "real looking", as someone else said about adults buying the most realistic looking ones for potentially illegal activities,. It makes no diffrence really because when you look at what you can get in smiths, toymaster etc a lot of them a just as "real looking", only difference being that our fire a bb., my sister actually bought a revolver for her 3 year old in a Gala shop a few days ago and it looked as close to the real thing as an airsoft if someone was to point it at you.,

I suppose the majority of people that bought from the reputable stands there would be more likely to have some sense about them, what with the price difference between those and the cheapo ebay lookin ones that "with a bit of luck" will fall apart in the comming days.,lol.,:D

Spitfire666

a quantity of airsoft guns where stolen on thursday and recovered friday. i spoke to the lads who got it back before they gave it back and looked at what it was. they were 50quid shottys which were all plastic and cheap plastic at that loaded with, not even yellow BBs but orange ones that where even worse then the yellow ones normally seen abbout. this is the stuff that the moronic few are buying and they will break them and loose em or whatever as they done care about the stuff. it just a novelty thing for them.

kdouglas

As everybody knows already, there are 3 retailers in the main hall who are selling really bad quality airsoft (if you can even call it that) kit at over-inflated prices, one of which has also been witnessed selling to under 18s against the policy set by the organisers, we (those of us at the show, ghosts/contractors) are doing are best to ensure that they do not sell to children without parental consent, but there is only so much we can do, although personally i have requested that the organisers shut down that particular retailer and remove him from the premises, this is unlikely to happen.

I think we would have alot more to worry about if it was just those dodgy retailers and we did not have eirsoft and mia at the event to educate people on what airsoft is really about, at least some percentage of the visitors are coming away with a better view of airsoft than just cheap "bb guns" or "pellet guns" which break after a day

Fallschirmjager

good thread ditpaintball...

this is where we are most vulnerable in airsoft. its a continual rant i have had for a long time now

1. we need a law on this not a gap in the law as we currently have
2. we need an over 18 law and some aspects of the UK's VCRA


there is too much risk here....and quite frankly if someone was pointing aegs in the rds at people..where was the security?? thats disgraceful they obviously have no control.

also i think its worth noting....judge dredd had his aeg crushed for a couple of fps over 1J....we need to OUT these companies selling +1j to the GARDAI or CUSTOMS...what they need is their entire stock confiscated and crushed with the risk of prison for selling unlicensed guns...and the names of who they sold them too as a follow up...they wont get them all obviously but its a good start.

for the sake of repeating myself from other threads, the government has an opportunity here for substantial job creation going forward and tax revenue which they currently need...but we need regulation and events like this is proof that airsoft is not small any more.

ED E

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

1. we need a law on this not a gap in the law as we currently have
2. we need an over 16 law and some aspects of the UK's VCRA

Corrected:cool:

Boston

Theres a limit to how effective laws will be, When these things where completely illegal you could still buy them at 'markets' and kids up and down the country had them.

Spetzcong

While I did see lots and lots of dodgy sorts buying and subsequently brandishing cheap (or not so cheap) airsoft devices from the stalls in the main hall, I did meet a fair few people who were genuinely interested in airsoft and seemed keen to come out to HRTA and give it a shot, so while in some ways the kids and/or adults acting the maggot could give airsoft a bad rep, I feel that everyone there did their best to act as ambassadors for the sport. Hive was there for a few of the days handing out IAA leaflets and all of the airsofters and Tony and Derek etc. were more than happy to explain stuff to anyone who was interested enough to listen.

The problem with the stalls in the main hall, selling cheap dodgy airsofts for rediculous prices is that technically they weren't doing anything illegal, according to the law under 1j = toy, and there is no legal age restriction on who can purchase one. I was glad to see MIA and Eirsoft enforcing their own sensible age restrictions but the other retailers were there purely to try and make as much money as possible. I think if anything bad happens as a result of kids armed with dodgy airsofts perhaps the IAA could try and push for an age restriction.

Stalls selling over the limit AEGs is more worrying though, I heard that some of the retailers were telling people that, and I saw a stall with some airsoft devices on it that I was pretty sure were over a joule last time I looked at them online (chrome CYMA mossberg, might be wrong about the joule thing, but it should be banned anyway out of sheer uglyness). I guess Paul's gonna have to be extra vigilant with the Chrono up at HRTA for the next while.

Arcto

Spetzcong wrote: »

(chrome CYMA mossberg, might be wrong about the joule thing, but it should be banned anyway out of sheer uglyness)

Bahahahahaha!

Stercus Accidit

That chrome cyma was 40€, ha ha.

I got one for a tenner to reuse bbs covered in muck!

Evolute

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Corrected:cool:

Dude it will never end up being over 16 because 16 year olds are not adults and therefore seen as irresponsible. Dispute it all you want but you will end up being dissapointed because there are more irresponsible 16 year olds then responsible ones.
Also sadly younger people get the raw end of the stick because most 16 year olds are complete morons(Attention to the most part of that sentence).
If anything it would be brought to over 18s or it would never be brought in at all

zero19

Maybe even 21+, it would be a pity of course

ED E

Evolute wrote: »

Dude it will never end up being over 16 because 16 year olds are not adults and therefore seen as irresponsible. Dispute it all you want but you will end up being dissapointed because there are more irresponsible 16 year olds then responsible ones.
Also sadly younger people get the raw end of the stick because most 16 year olds are complete morons(Attention to the most part of that sentence).
If anything it would be brought to over 18s or it would never be brought in at all

After today not sure if its should be 16-18 and 26+ Only, no 19-25 year olds!

But, yeah, i can see that happening, just wait little under 18months and I wont give a sh1t

zalifer

I was at the t4bb show, and, aside from eirsoft and mia (which had quality gear, and respectable prices) there was a lot of flog. Both my little brothers got pistols, and they were of the less than usual standard. They were fairly weak, and one has fallen appart already. I hope that that trend is continued with all the other stuff from the show, as I saw many cheapy jobs, at AMAZINGLY high prices (that XM8, anyone, in the main hall, I think)

Like many of you, I too saw people getting their hands on gear that will only cause trouble for the airsoft community in Ireland. When I was in the main hall, one of those yellow .12 pp's came and landed on the ground in front of me, so I assume people were shooting them even there, again asking the question, where is the security.

Talking to tony (shiva?) at eirsoft was great, as he gave me info on HRTA (and about a possible susat for my r85.. cant wait!), which I am going to organise a trip to, and also the guys outside who I pestered with questions and photographed in all their gear! (I was the twerp with the green head thing... and the SLR non-digital camera.) Having seen the display, I can only think what a pity it had to be staged, and not an actual skirmish, but I suppose it would have been hard to set up a save place to do it. I think it was a great advertisement for airsoft, and I heard a few people saying how much fun it looked and of course the emo kid in front of me going "grown men with toys... its sad... <flicks emo fringe> COOL A GRENADE!". Man it was funny to watch his expression change!

I hope that the IAA (which I am applying for membership of, we need a body to govern this quickly growing sport) can intervene next year, and stop people from selling to minors (of which I am one, at 17, but I can see the need for regulation, and fully support it),
and of cheap flog, or even worse, over the limit airsoft guns which I believe, will, along with replicas used for crime, be one of the major dangers to the sport.
Anyway, catch you later.

fletch...

I missed boys4, was even cringing just thinking about it last week thinking of all the prats ect... kind of kicking myself for not making it tho. i would of liked to seen the eirsoft stall and the demo. was a good opertuninity to bring the other half and drop some xmas prezzy hints (M14).....note to self ( make M14 the desktop wallpaper tehee!!)

on one hand wev a load of idiots with airsofts and on the other hand wev a lot of potential new players, iether way theres no point losing sleep over it, I just hate living in a "nanny state"

Markspi

I was at the show on Friday .
Great stalls lads ,
We should ave got derek to dress in camo aswell,

But on a note, i got talking to a fatherr at the MIA Stall about airsoft .
He was asking were abouts his son can play etc.
I got into in depth conversation and i gave him a leaflet from shivas stall,
as he read through it he stunned me by sayiny
Thats F**king stupid.
I said what he said well you can be 14 to play but have to be 18 to buy .
Well he said i havent got time to be running around these stores everythime my kid sees stuff he wants.

Hivemind187

Markspi wrote: »

I was at the show on Friday .
Great stalls lads ,
We should ave got derek to dress in camo aswell,

But on a note, i got talking to a fatherr at the MIA Stall about airsoft .
He was asking were abouts his son can play etc.
I got into in depth conversation and i gave him a leaflet from shivas stall,
as he read through it he stunned me by sayiny
Thats F**king stupid.
I said what he said well you can be 14 to play but have to be 18 to buy .
Well he said i havent got time to be running around these stores everythime my kid sees stuff he wants.

Thats more his issues as a parent than anything that reflects on us or our policies as Airsofters.

Fallschirmjager

agree...he sounds like a right charmer...

Dave!

zalifer wrote: »

"grown men with toys... its sad... <flicks emo fringe> COOL A GRENADE!".

haha