Garda Tailgating

Senna

Was on my way back from the shops tonight and just as i came off a roundabout and was maybe 200yr up the road, i seen a car speeding up behind me and sit on my bumper. It was a 50kph zone in a fairly built up area.
I just assumed it was some idiot in a modded saxo or such wanting a race (i drive an MR2), so i just continued driving at the speed-limit. (its a big wide road and most do break the speed-limit by 10-20kph)
anyway the car stayed right on my bumper for the first KM of the road then backed off to a normal distant.
At the top of the road i pulled off into my house and seen in the mirror it was a garda car.

My question, is this not entrapment, forcing the car in front to speed up and then writing them a ticket when they do so. My partner is a Learner driver and once when i was with her, she started to speed up when she was being tailgated. I told her not to, but as she was only starting out and it was nerves that make her speed up. She is a fair better driver now, but I'd hate to think of her getting a ticket from a garda driving recklessly.

p.s this is not the first time its happened.

Fooz

Might just be a twat of a Garda. Some of them are not the best drivers.

Wishbone Ash

Senna wrote: »

My question, is this not entrapment, forcing the car in front to speed up and then writing them a ticket

How can you be 'forced' to speed up? A tailgating motorist would make me slow down.

I'd say it was a Garda with deteriorating eyesight running a reg check!

mick.fr

Surely such a behavior is stupid and dangerous.
No wonder why they do crash so many cars.
And of course for a cop pushing somebody like this to actually commit an offense is certainly not legal.

Oilrig

Wanker Cop.

Well known tactic. I got done by a 405 on the N7 in this way many years ago. Mate is in the Traffic Corp and confirmed (confessed?) over beers one night that this is an unofficial tactic.

Traffic Taleban ****. :mad:

DannyBuoy

I have seen this a number of times, especially down south on the Watergrasshill - Fermoy bypass. Generally unmarked car will sit at your bumper until they either get bored or you speed up. Highly dangerous practice I would have thought. One would expect more from those who are charged with enforcing traffic rules.

Senna

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

How can you be 'forced' to speed up? A tailgating motorist would make me slow down.

I'd say it was a Garda with deteriorating eyesight running a reg check!

Yes, i didn't speed up and if anything i would slow further just to annoy them. But I've been driving for a good few years, a learner driver or inexperienced one may speed up. i've seen it happen.

never though of the eyesight thing. but if his/her eyesight is that bad, i'd say the criminals of Letterkenny can sleep safe in bed, they'll never be spotted doing anything wrong.;)

yayamark

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

How can you be 'forced' to speed up? A tailgating motorist would make me slow down.

I'd say it was a Garda with deteriorating eyesight running a reg check!

agreed that what i think as well

mick.fr wrote: »

Surely such a behavior is stupid and dangerous.
No wonder why they do crash so many cars.

How many cars do they crash i looked for figures couldnt find any?

Fooz wrote: »

Might just be a twat of a Garda. Some of them are not the best drivers.

ya there trying to get them all to do the car course asap

jimmycrackcorm

Senna wrote: »

My question, is this not entrapment, forcing the car in front to speed up and then writing them a ticket when they do so.

Nobody is forcing the driver in front to speed up. After all it's their own choice to do so.

Senna

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nobody is forcing the driver in front to speed up. After all it's their own choice to do so.

Of course.
So is it acceptable for garda to do this?

ArseBurger

Senna wrote: »

My question, is this not entrapment,

It wouldn't matter if it was. Entrapment is not illegal in Ireland.

White Knight

Senna wrote: »

At the top of the road i pulled off into my house and seen in the mirror it was a garda car.

You have 3 mirrors on the car that should be in constant use - could you not see straight away that it was a Garda car?

Same thing happened me few years ago and they followed me right up in to my driveway about 2 miles from where they started tailing. Supposedly they had seen me rush through an amber light but im not so sure!

Senna

White Knight wrote: »

You have 3 mirrors on the car that should be in constant use - could you not see straight away that it was a Garda car?

It was night, i.e. Dark. all i could see was two head-lights.
Interesting, 3 mirrors you say, must look for them tomorrow:rolleyes:

White Knight

Senna wrote: »

It was night, i.e. Dark. all i could see was two head-lights.

ah you should have said it was night

Senna wrote: »

Interesting, 3 mirrors you say, must look for them tomorrow:rolleyes:

so I have been told! dont quote me on that .. oh too late

did not mean to come across condescending!

Senna

White Knight wrote: »

did not mean to come across condescending!

Na mate, not at all, just messing.

Wishbone Ash

Oilrig wrote: »

Traffic Taleban ****

If you are going to insult particular sectors of society, try to use the correct spelling.

Otherwise, you will come across as an idiot!

Anan1

Senna wrote: »

It was night, i.e. Dark. all i could see was two head-lights.
Interesting, 3 mirrors you say, must look for them tomorrow:rolleyes:

You've told us that you were 'coming home from the shops in a fairly built-up area' In my experience it's poor observation rather than speeding that gets one penalty points.;)

MarkN

Lads put your high horses back in the stable. OP this happened to me 4 years ago driving a brand new Golf GTI, a guard in a navy Corolla followed me from the Spawell to Nutgrove more a less the whole way up my arse. At the Yellow House lights, I'd had enough and gunned it and when he caught up the blues came on, I was actually relieved as it clearly wasn't some lunatic anymore, I ate the head off the guard, told him a guy driving a new A8 had been approached by lads with baseball bats only the week before on his driveway in Rathfarnham and that if he had a problem he should've pulled me over 5 miles back. Completely saw my side and told me to slow down and that was it. I suppose you wouldn't get away with it being a patrol car.

faceman

ArseBurger wrote: »

It wouldn't matter if it was. Entrapment is not illegal in Ireland.

Entrapment is permitted in ireland, however evidence acquired via methods that are considered entrapment/controlled are not admissable in court.

The scenario the OP described was not entrapment and he did the right thing - obeyed the rules of the road

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

Lads put your high horses back in the stable. OP this happened to me 4 years ago driving a brand new Golf GTI, a guard in a navy Corolla followed me from the Spawell to Nutgrove more a less the whole way up my arse. At the Yellow House lights, I'd had enough and gunned it and when he caught up the blues came on, I was actually relieved as it clearly wasn't some lunatic anymore, I ate the head off the guard, told him a guy driving a new A8 had been approached by lads with baseball bats only the week before on his driveway in Rathfarnham and that if he had a problem he should've pulled me over 5 miles back. Completely saw my side and told me to slow down and that was it. I suppose you wouldn't get away with it being a patrol car.

Ah now come on! If it had been an unusual unmarked car then perhaps, but a navy Corolla? On another point, if you were running from a Corolla in a new Golf GTI on the basis that he was a lunatic, then how did he catch up with you?:)

tenchi-fan

(refusing to get on a high hourse because that's exactly the kind of thing that would happen to me) I don't think the guard did anything wrong by speeding up, he could easily say road conditions permitted it and it is you who actually broke the speed limit.

Only a bad driver would be intimidated to speed up, if some one was driving that close to me I'd have slowed down to spite him, and allowed him to overtake (eh well actually i'd probably have speeded up when he tried to overtake and that would get me in more trouble, but a "good driver" should let people overtake!)

MarkN

Anan what part of being a guard do you think gives you the right to drive like that? I have a lot of time for them but you seem to take it to a whole new "they are God" level.

He caught up because when I started to pull away he stuck on the lights and that made me stop.

I'm older and wiser now and God help any guard that does that to me now, I'd be onto his/her Super staight away to report them for dangerous driving if they did it for no reason whatsoever which was the case when that happened and I wouldn't let it go. I'm not having the back of my car destroyed because of some guard on a power trip and I'm sure if you thought about it logically you'd feel exactly the same.

I actually have a number of family members who are guards so I know what their jobs entail but you have got to apply a bit of common sense when defending them too.

Anan1

I don't know where people are going with the high horse thing recently. Speeding up because one is being tailgated is stupid. It's doubly stupid if it's a red or blue Mondeo/Vectra/Avensis/Corolla, triply stupid if it's a fully kitted-out squad car. A minature donkey could see this.

Seth Brundle

White Knight wrote: »

ah you should have said it was night

Senna did

Senna wrote: »

Was on my way back from the shops tonight ...

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

Anan what part of being a guard do you think gives you the right to drive like that? I have a lot of time for them but you seem to take it to a whole new "they are God" level.

What are you talking about? I'm not a guard, and have no time for tailgating.

MarkN wrote: »

He caught up because when I started to pull away he stuck on the lights and that made me stop.

Eh, this isn't quite what you said last time:

MarkN wrote: »

and when he caught up the blues came on

MarkN wrote: »

I'm older and wiser now and God help any guard that does that to me now, I'd be onto his/her Super staight away to report them for dangerous driving if they did it for no reason whatsoever which was the case when that happened and I wouldn't let it go. I'm not having the back of my car destroyed because of some guard on a power trip and I'm sure if you thought about it logically you'd feel exactly the same.

And i'd be right behind you (no pun intended). It's good to hear you've learnt your lesson.:)

Wishbone Ash

I'm at a loss to understand why people feel the need to speed up when being tailgated!

Do these same drivers slow down if a vehicle following them slows down?

Anan1

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm at a loss to understand why people feel the need to speed up when being tailgated!

Do these same drivers slow down if a vehicle following them slows down?

MarkN

Anan1 wrote: »

What are you talking about? I'm not a guard, and have no time for tailgating.

Eh, this isn't quite what you said last time:

You're nitpicking.

I didn't say you were a guard, I said what part of BEING a guard would give them the right to tailgate.

There was no lesson learnt thanks, I was happily driving along minding my own business and if it happened again and I was unsure as to who was driving the car, I wouldn't hesitate in planting the foot and heading to the nearest station.

Senna

Anan1 wrote: »

triply stupid if it's a fully kitted-out squad car. A minature donkey could see this.

It was a fully kitted-out squad car, but it was pitch dark. My car is very low as standard (not lower) all i could see was headlights. And they didn't have their blue strip light on.

Tabnabs

What goes around comes around.

The mrs was on the bus home the other night and as the bus passed by the scene of a two car accident, the car in front had been rear-ended by, you guessed it, a garda car...:rolleyes:

Stark

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't know where people are going with the high horse thing recently. Speeding up because one is being tailgated is stupid. It's doubly stupid if it's a red or blue Mondeo/Vectra/Avensis/Corolla, triply stupid if it's a fully kitted-out squad car. A minature donkey could see this.

With the dark evenings these days, it's fairly hard to see what kind of car is behind you if they're tailgating you. Had a car on my ass going through the Phoenix park before with its mains on so I was dazzled while driving and for all I knew, it was some boy racer before he finally overtook and I could see that it was a Garda car.

Anan1

Stark wrote: »

With the dark evenings these days, it's fairly hard to see what kind of car is behind you if they're tailgating you. Had a car on my ass going through the Phoenix park before with its mains on so I was dazzled while driving and for all I knew, it was some boy racer before he finally overtook and I could see that it was a Garda car.

Sure, it can take a bit of observation before you get to see enough to know. Would you floor it before you had had a chance to ascertain whether or not it was a Garda car tailgating you?

MarkN

I'm sure like most of us, it would be continuous tailgaiting which would warrant someone trying to lose the idiot behind.

By the way OP, not sure if your car has them but my car has two rear foglights, it's a very quick way of stopping someone tailgating you if you switch them on all of a sudden.

Anan1

We all get tailgated from time to time, and we all know how dangerous and irritating it can be. That said, using anything which could be mistaken for a brake light is just plain dangerous. If you're going to break the speed limit fine, just make sure it's not a Garda car doing the tailgating first. Surely this isn't so hard to get one's head around?

Personally, I find that a combination of considerate driving and occasional use of the hazard lights works for me.

MarkN

Well whether applying fog or brake lights, both will have he same effect - the car behind will be forced to back off. It will be just as dangerous if a dog, fox, child, football comes out in front of you and there is a car right up your bumper.

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

It will be just as dangerous if a dog, fox, child, football comes out in front of you and there is a car right up your bumper.

My point exactly.

MarkN

So garda car or not, there is no excuse for it.

If someone can't do a reg check using their eyes without being up the back of a car to read the reg then they probably shouldn't be driving a car (not that I think the guard in question was doing it for that reason for one single minute I might add).

End of.

cyrusdvirus

Anan1 wrote: »

We all get tailgated from time to time, and we all know how dangerous and irritating it can be. That said, using anything which could be mistaken for a brake light is just plain dangerous. If you're going to break the speed limit fine, just make sure it's not a Garda car doing the tailgating first. Surely this isn't so hard to get one's head around?

Personally, I find that a combination of considerate driving and occasional use of the hazard lights works for me.

not meaning to bad mouth the Gardai, but about 12 months ago I was on the M1 heading to Drogheda motoring along in the overtaking lane as i was overtaking cars in front of me. A truck indicated to pull out to overtake another truck in front of me so i checked mirrors, saw all clear and slowed down. Flashed the heads to let the overtaking truck know that i saw his indicators and was happy to let him pull out. I checked the mirrors again as he began his manoeuvre and saw, a fair bit in the distance a maroon Mondeo maintaining his speed. I drive a blue Mondeo (VERY USEFUL PULLING INTO TRAFFIC ON THE M50)!!!:)) and kept a weather eye on this chappie. He was getting a tad close at this stage so i flashed my hazards......next thing i know the headlights on the car behind me start flashing in that way we've all seen.......unmarked squad car.
I slowed down, and pulled into the hard shoulder, this lad flashing away behind me. The passenger Garda got out and read me the riot act cos i should have assumed that they saw the truck carrying out the overtaking manoeuvre and were going to adjust their speed accordingly. I got a bit cheeky and told him that i had no wish to be driving an 8 wheel Mondeo, which was why i flashed the hazards. He told me to stop being a cheeky c-nut and asked for my licence. I showed it to him and said that the only reason i had flashed my hazard lights was cos i felt that their car was approaching at too high a speed. he then told me that all Gardai are fully trained in high speed driving and that they were fully aware of the trucks maneuver................and that it was not my responsibility to watch out for drivers behind me once there was sufficient clearance for me to complete my own manoeuvring!!!!!
Essentially backing up what my driving instructor said to me, let the lad behind you worry about himself, you just drive in a safe manner.



The point I'm trying to make is, it's not your responsibility to look out for a guy tailgating you. Let him look out for himself

Oilrig

Wishbone, I assume your reference to my spelling was due to the fact I spelled Taleban with an "e" rather than an "i"?

FYI "The Taliban (Pashto: طالبان ṭālibān, also anglicized as Taleban)"

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

nialler

Turn on your foglights, it usually frightens the sh1t outta the guy tailgaiting you.

Senna

gatecrash wrote: »

not meaning to bad mouth the Gardai, but about 12 months ago I was on the M1 heading to Drogheda motoring along in the overtaking lane as i was overtaking cars in front of me. A truck indicated to pull out to overtake another truck in front of me so i checked mirrors, saw all clear and slowed down. Flashed the heads to let the overtaking truck know that i saw his indicators and was happy to let him pull out. I checked the mirrors again as he began his manoeuvre and saw, a fair bit in the distance a maroon Mondeo maintaining his speed. I drive a blue Mondeo (VERY USEFUL PULLING INTO TRAFFIC ON THE M50)!!!:)) and kept a weather eye on this chappie. He was getting a tad close at this stage so i flashed my hazards......next thing i know the headlights on the car behind me start flashing in that way we've all seen.......unmarked squad car.
I slowed down, and pulled into the hard shoulder, this lad flashing away behind me. The passenger Garda got out and read me the riot act cos i should have assumed that they saw the truck carrying out the overtaking manoeuvre and were going to adjust their speed accordingly. I got a bit cheeky and told him that i had no wish to be driving an 8 wheel Mondeo, which was why i flashed the hazards. He told me to stop being a cheeky c-nut and asked for my licence. I showed it to him and said that the only reason i had flashed my hazard lights was cos i felt that their car was approaching at too high a speed. he then told me that all Gardai are fully trained in high speed driving and that they were fully aware of the trucks maneuver................and that it was not my responsibility to watch out for drivers behind me once there was sufficient clearance for me to complete my own manoeuvring!!!!!
Essentially backing up what my driving instructor said to me, let the lad behind you worry about himself, you just drive in a safe manner.



The point I'm trying to make is, it's not your responsibility to look out for a guy tailgating you. Let him look out for himself

So he pulled you over for being a conscientious driver. Yes, let the driver behind worry about themselves, but what the harm in being aware of whats going on 360degrees around you.:mad:
That garda had probably just got a rollicking from the super about how he is a useless garda and then took it out on you. Unlucky.

Turner

Look at it from the Garda's point of view driving a marked patrol car. Everywhere they drive as soon as people in front see them they slow down to 50km/hr or whatever the speed limit is.

The Gardai are not obliged to obey speed limits, think of how frustrating it is when they drive around for eight hours with everybody in front of them slowing down to the exact and in most cases unreasonable speed limit!!

Not every Garda is into giving out speeding tickets, and anyway they require vascar or a speed gun (from a stationary position) to actually issue one.

Senna

Chief--- wrote: »

The Gardai are not obliged to obey speed limits

What?? they are only allowed to break the speed limit if it is necessary for carrying out their duties. they can't just do whatever they like.

Turner

While they are on duty. Fullstop.

No matter if they are responding to a call or going out to buy doughnuts.

They still can be prosecuted for driving dangerously. But this takes account speed, other roadusers, weather etc. ~If they are responding to an emergency call they can still be prosecuted.

Senna

Really. I always though they were accountable for all their driving violations, expect for when appropriate. Thats really an open invitation to trouble.

Seth Brundle

Chief--- wrote: »

Not every Garda is into giving out speeding tickets, and anyway they require vascar or a speed gun (from a stationary position) to actually issue one.

Two or more gardai together can state in court that they believe a car was above the speed limit and can get a result.

Senna wrote: »

What?? they are only allowed to break the speed limit if it is necessary for carrying out their duties. they can't just do whatever they like.

True but prove that they weren't carrying out their duties!

wil

Have to agree this tailgating by gardai is a little too common. Happened me recently by an unmarked car on a long straight wide stretch in South city Dublin where most would be inclined to lean on the pedal a tad too much. Except that I took note of 2 heads in a dark car coming up to a police station. There are regulars in that area. Wasnt sure but my concern was confirmed when they turned in to the station with no end of shift speeding ticket handed out.:p I was sorely tempted to call in and complain but (not needing to become an active target living very near there) decided to let my good driving be a lesson to them.;)
Next time eat my hitch.:D

There are good and bad drivers in the gardai just as in every other profession. Some naughtiness is to be expected:(

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

Two or more gardai together can state in court that they believe a car was above the speed limit and can get a result.

Wow, this is an interesting thread!

As for the above, if Gardaí, especially younger ones, are reminded that if they lie in court they are committing perjury most will think twice and tell the truth. A Garda getting caught perjuring him/herself is a sackable offence. I have seen two Gardai contradict each other in front of a judge, and the case was thrown out as a result. Tho the judge couldn't decide/wasn't arsed about which one was telling lies.

@MarkN, nice idea, but unfortunately fog lamps are 21 watt, same as brake lamps. Driving with them on isn't going to blind the driver behind, it's only going to irritate them.

Knowing that the driver behind is automatically in the wrong if there's a rear-ending, I tend to jab on the brakes if someone is tailgating me. It either frightens the p1ss out of them, or I get a wad of cash. Win win.

Senna

kbannon wrote: »

Two or more gardai together can state in court that they believe a car was above the speed limit and can get a result.


True but prove that they weren't carrying out their duties!

But thats different, i know they will get away with it. But the poster above say its not against the law for them to break speed limits even if its not necessary.
So, if this is true, a garda could do 100kph in a 50 zone, just to get their lunch on time and there is nothing wrong (against the law) with that.

the_syco

JHMEG wrote: »

Knowing that the driver behind is automatically in the wrong if there's a rear-ending, I tend to jab on the brakes if someone is tailgating me. It either frightens the p1ss out of them, or I get a wad of cash. Win win.

Lets just hope you never have kids in the back of your car when you do get hit. Money can't bring them back from 6 feet down.

Senna

Also, can't you lose your no-claims bonus for just being involved in an accident, even if its not your fault????