Advantages of a college degree?

GaryL

...If I don't intend working in the area of my qualification?

I'm considering dropping out of my course but that vast majority of people tell me to stick with it (I had a thread on this forum last week about it). I'm half way through a computer science degree. I've been mainly struggling since I finished 1st year. I've completely lost interest in the course and I don't intend working in IT in the future. At this rate I'm going to definitely fail all the Christmas exams and I'm wondering what the advantages are if I really knuckled down for the next year and a half and tried to pass the degree? It would take a lot of effort, I have to learn 5 or 6 subjects from scratch really.

I've no idea what area of work I want to go into and I've arranged a meeting with the career guidance but for the time being I'd just love to know why I should stick with the course? I'll have a qualification that won't be of much use to anyone because I won't be working in the industry.

Thanks.

newestUser

There's no advantage.

If you go back to do something you really want to do, you'll have to pay for 4 years/5 years/whatever years fees, whereas if you leave now, you only pay for two.

You'll waste two years of your life doing something you've no interest in.

You'll hear people telling you that blah blah blah you can do a conversion course after the degree...so what? You could start another degree and still be finished in around the same time you finish your current degree and then finish your conversion degree.

"Get your degree, you won't regret it, it'll open up new options to you" is witless advice that is bandied around these boards almost as much as "you should join a club or travel". Your education can be so many things. It can be a springboard to a high flying career. It can be an intellectual exploration. It can be a challenge to yourself to be a better person, and raise your game intellectually. It can be so many positive things, in my (admittedly kneejerk!) opinion there's no point wasting time on it if you hate it, and don't see it leading on to something else.

DublinWriter

GaryL wrote: »

I've no idea what area of work I want to go into and I've arranged a meeting with the career guidance but for the time being I'd just love to know why I should stick with the course? I'll have a qualification that won't be of much use to anyone because I won't be working in the industry.

Well, I believe the current CEO of Northern Rock has a first-class honours degree in Zoology. Hmmm.

I've met a lot of people like you in your early 20's who are basically drifting. If you've set no goals for yourself then you'll wander around aimlessly in circles and you'll be 30 before you know it. Trust me.

You really need to slap yourself upside the head and figure out what you want to do with your life.

GaryL

Yeah hopefully the guidance counselor can give me a few idea's. As it is there's very few jobs I can think of that interest me. I'm seriously considering 4-5 years in the army, then a year travelling before applying for the gardai. As it is I've very little chance of getting into the gardai so having 5 years army experience would help on that front. I'd also really like to test myself doing something like that. The only thing I don't really fancy is shift work for the rest of my life but it wouldn't put me off.

I tried that career directions site for advice but it's rubbish. I got matched up with things like kitchen porter. I spent a summer working as a kitchen porter... no thanks.

MollyCoddle

Realistically though a lot of people with degrees end up working in something totally unrelated to it, so in many cases it's more about having 'a' degree than a degree in something relevant.

I took a HR module at uni (incidentally I am hating my final year of my degree and the subject is in a field I don't plan on working in) and they said it's more about the maturity having a degree gives you (open to discussion lol) and proving that you can knuckle down through what might be hard times and actually finish something.

I only went to uni as a mature student because I'd hit the glass ceiling in my career from not having a degree.

If you are miserable then drop out. But think hard about it first.

the_syco

GaryL wrote: »

I'm seriously considering 4-5 years in the army

Well, to be blunt, it'll give you direction and once you have that direction, they'll pay for you to do courses that you like, etc. Also, if you find you like it, you'll probably stay there till you retire, or at least for 15 or 20 years.

Also, you'll have to pay for 1st year college fee's if you do the same type of course. Eg: if you quit your IT degree, but do an IT cert, you'll have to pay the full fee's, but if you quit the IT course, and do something like, I dunno, a baking degree, I don't think that you have to pay the full fee's. You'll have to talk to the college about this.

Dave!

GaryL wrote: »

Yeah hopefully the guidance counselor can give me a few idea's. As it is there's very few jobs I can think of that interest me. I'm seriously considering 4-5 years in the army, then a year travelling before applying for the gardai. As it is I've very little chance of getting into the gardai so having 5 years army experience would help on that front. I'd also really like to test myself doing something like that. The only thing I don't really fancy is shift work for the rest of my life but it wouldn't put me off.

lol, sounds exactly like me

Unsure bout my college course (but planning on sticking it out for 2.5 more years), considering army, then fire service (having previously considered the Gardaí).

I wonder if that's what all unsure blokes resort to -- army then gardai/fire service/prison service/ambulance

Thundercracker

GaryL wrote: »

I'm seriously considering 4-5 years in the army

If you have no other options, I would only consider the Military from the point of view of becoming an officer, perhaps join the T.A. in Northern Ireland and see a bit of the world if you want that kind of path. Alternatively, sell what you can, pack up and go abroad to work in another city for a few months and take a break. Clear your head, see somewhere different, and come back with a new perspective

Anthony11

If you're really considering the army you should finish your degree. You'll enter the army at a much higher rank and pay-scale.

Anyone who tells you that finishing your degree is worthless is seriously misguided. Nobody wants to hire a quitter. Stick it out for the next year or so, cram before the exams and then look for a job, go travelling, whatever. It's easy to get hung up on a few subjects you don't like right now. The reality is that when you finish college you'll have opportunities in areas you didn't even think about. Say you want to spend a year teaching in Korea or Japan for example. You can't without a degree!

An I.T. qualification is as diverse as it gets, you could get a job practically anywhere doing anything.

DO0GLE

I think you should stick out the course after coming this far and then reassess your career or take a year out to go travelling, but finish the course....a year and half won't be long going by and that degree will always stand to you even if you don't use it.

Of course you might be finding the course uninteresting and tough at the moment....colleges don't hand out degrees that easy. Stay focused and put in the effort.

The Insider

I would seriously advice you to finish your degree... you have what 18 months left?? IMO you would be crazy to drop out at this stage, even if you don't want to work in IT the degree will allow you to springboard to some other area you are interested in. If you were not ready to work you could look at doing a post grad in a different area. The amount of options it will open up are 100x the options you will have if you don't finish it.

I started off doing a business degree straight out of school, dropped out after 1 year because I was a lazy bas**rd and I felt it wasn't for me. I am now back in college at night killing myself and paying though the nose for the privilege, trust me you don't want to be doing this yourself 5/10 years down the road when you get a bit of sense.

newestUser

Anthony11 wrote: »

I

Anyone who tells you that finishing your degree is worthless is seriously misguided. Nobody wants to hire a quitter. Stick it out for the next year or so, cram before the exams and then look for a job, go travelling, whatever. It's easy to get hung up on a few subjects you don't like right now. The reality is that when you finish college you'll have opportunities in areas you didn't even think about. Say you want to spend a year teaching in Korea or Japan for example. You can't without a degree!

An I.T. qualification is as diverse as it gets, you could get a job practically anywhere doing anything.

I don't think I'm misguided.

In my experience, people attach too much importance to having a degree.

Nobody wants to hire a quitter, true. But then again, nobody wants to hire someone who's passive and goes with the flow and is going through the motions and doesn't really care about what they're doing. Beware of generalisations.

If you have a degree you can teach in South Korea or Japan? Big swinging mickey. They're not viable long-term careers. It's a working holiday, nothing more.

You need more life experience. Go out there, try different paths, fall flat on your face, find out stuff about yourself and the world that you never would have discovered if you stayed in your rut, live your life.

It's important to have persistence, and not to quit when the going gets tough, but it's also important to make the right decisions and to have the courage to stop going down a road when you realise you've made a wrong turn.

However, I do concede that there's a possibility that you're whiny and unmotivated in general, not just with your course, and that whatever you turned your hand to, you'd be here on boards complaining about "my life is going nowhere maaaaaaaan". In which case I'd be inclined to agree with everyone else, give you a clip round the ear and tell you to Deal With It, B!tch.

Just take on board everything that's being said to you. If your parents live in Dublin by the way, I think that's a strong reason for dropping out of your current course (because you'll have so many educational opportunities on your doorstep, and it would cost less to support yourself in college second time round than if you had to live away from home).

GaryL

newestUser wrote: »

However, I do concede that there's a possibility that you're whiny and unmotivated in general, not just with your course, and that whatever you turned your hand to, you'd be here on boards complaining about "my life is going nowhere maaaaaaaan". In which case I'd be inclined to agree with everyone else, give you a clip round the ear and tell you to Deal With It, B!tch.

Well I can assure you that's certainly not me. Education just isn't my thing. It was the same in school. I mitched off school at lunchtime most days and after the mocks I stayed at home and thought myself. I learn more from reading a book than I do from a lecturer reading it for me. I'm just at the stage where I can't get my head down to study and when I do I'm just out of my depth.

I've had 3 summer jobs so far in my life and I know I'm an excellent worker. I've no problem getting out of bed to go to work and I never missed a days/hours work yet. In my last job I was on a 20 hour contract but I became the first person the boss rang when someone was sick. I was covering for about 6 shops so there was always someone sick. I worked up to 55 hours a week a lot of the time.

It's hard to convince an employer that my lack of motivation for college means nothing though. I wouldn't know how to explain myself in an interview.

I've also just realised that it's virtually impossible for me to pass all subjects now. You have to do 2 assignments for all 6 subjects between October-December. I've already not submitted one which is worth 15% and I have another coming up and Thursday and another on Friday. to pass those 2 I'll have to teach myself from scratch and I don't have the time.

newestUser

GaryL wrote: »

Well I can assure you that's certainly not me. Education just isn't my thing. It was the same in school. I mitched off school at lunchtime most days and after the mocks I stayed at home and thought myself. I learn more from reading a book than I do from a lecturer reading it for me. I'm just at the stage where I can't get my head down to study and when I do I'm just out of my depth.

I've had 3 summer jobs so far in my life and I know I'm an excellent worker. I've no problem getting out of bed to go to work and I never missed a days/hours work yet. In my last job I was on a 20 hour contract but I became the first person the boss rang when someone was sick. I was covering for about 6 shops so there was always someone sick. I worked up to 55 hours a week a lot of the time.

It's hard to convince an employer that my lack of motivation for college means nothing though. I wouldn't know how to explain myself in an interview.

I've also just realised that it's virtually impossible for me to pass all subjects now. You have to do 2 assignments for all 6 subjects between October-December. I've already not submitted one which is worth 15% and I have another coming up and Thursday and another on Friday. to pass those 2 I'll have to teach myself from scratch and I don't have the time.

A lack of motivation for a particular college course is understandable. However, a lack of motivation for education is frankly inexcusable.

You'll be stuck doing dead-end jobs for the rest of your life with that attitude. It's a complex world out there, and it's only getting more complex. Highly educated people can handle that. If you limit your education to where it is now, you're not going to be able to progress far down any path you choose. And not just because you don't have "a piece of paper", but because mentally you won't be able to handle the complexity of the job at any level except the first rung or so above entry level.

Turning up for work on time, and turning up for work persistently is the minimum expected from you. If I was interviewing someone for a job, and asked them why I should hire them, and they pointed out their excellent attendance record and timekeeping as a reason, I'd be thinking, "yeah? so what? That's the least I'd expect of you." It gives off a "I'm here, aren't I, what more do you want?" vibe from a person. And, to be frank, it makes me think that you need to work on your attitude and work ethic.

You're going to get two lines of advice here. One is "you're a feckless waster, cop yourself on", the other is "life's too short to be doing something you don't enjoy, move on". Your situation isn't black and white. While you obviously have no interest in computers, and in my opinion, should not continue studying the subject, I suspect there's a good chance if you dropped out, you'd just drift. You wouldn't apply yourself to whatever it is you decided to do next. Your excuses for why you should drop out of your course (I can't pass now) are just that, excuses. Instead of telling us why you've *decided* to drop out, you're telling us that basically you are *forced* to drop out. It sounds like you're avoiding taking responsibility for your decisions.

GaryL

Don't be so bloody patronising. I think I can say I'm a very good worker. I haven't had the most difficult jobs in the world but I've had jobs that can seriously test your will to work. For example...working as a kitchen porter for a function. Start work at 7.30am. Finish at 12.30am then next morning! and back in for 8.30am. Now I only had that shift once but trust me, kitchen porter is the worst of the worst.

The boss in that job went out of her way to keep me in the job when I went back to college and it was actually tough to tell her I was leaving because she changed the rosters so much to suit me. My first job as a sales assistant I had my boss at me constantly to stay on part time when I told him I was leaving. And at a party in my last job the district manager was telling me all the good words she's been hearing about me and wouldn't let me buy a drink all night (and she's apparantly a bitch).

I do anything asked of me, and more, to the best of my ability while plenty of people I worked with like to take the easy option. Again, all I'm saying is that lack of motivation to study does not mean lack of motivation to work.

That's only a reply to one paragraph of your post. The last one just angers me. I'm telling it as it is. I'm not making excuses for myself. I don't see myself as good enough to be designing websites or putting together a system. Judging by your last post you'll probably read that sentence as "ah I'm feeling sorry for myself".

And just to back up my last point. I spent last year repeating 3 subjects (out of 11). I could put all my efforts into studying for those subjects which made things a lot easier. I can guarantee you I tried as hard as I could. The highest mark of the 3 subject was 44%. That's simply the level I'm at. You're born the way you are. I happen to be very good at Maths but absolutely terrible at English and other languages. English is one of the most important things for any college degree. I can hardly put a CV together and certainly wouldn't be able for a thesis.

newestUser

GaryL wrote: »

Don't be so bloody patronising. I think I can say I'm a very good worker. I haven't had the most difficult jobs in the world but I've had jobs that can seriously test your will to work. For example...working as a kitchen porter for a function. Start work at 7.30am. Finish at 12.30am then next morning! and back in for 8.30am. Now I only had that shift once but trust me, kitchen porter is the worst of the worst.

The boss in that job went out of her way to keep me in the job when I went back to college and it was actually tough to tell her I was leaving because she changed the rosters so much to suit me. My first job as a sales assistant I had my boss at me constantly to stay on part time when I told him I was leaving. And at a party in my last job the district manager was telling me all the good words she's been hearing about me and wouldn't let me buy a drink all night (and she's apparantly a bitch).

I do anything asked of me, and more, to the best of my ability while plenty of people I worked with like to take the easy option. Again, all I'm saying is that lack of motivation to study does not mean lack of motivation to work.

That's only a reply to one paragraph of your post. The last one just angers me. I'm telling it as it is. I'm not making excuses for myself. I don't see myself as good enough to be designing websites or putting together a system. Judging by your last post you'll probably read that sentence as "ah I'm feeling sorry for myself".

And just to back up my last point. I spent last year repeating 3 subjects (out of 11). I could put all my efforts into studying for those subjects which made things a lot easier. I can guarantee you I tried as hard as I could. The highest mark of the 3 subject was 44%. That's simply the level I'm at. You're born the way you are. I happen to be very good at Maths but absolutely terrible at English and other languages. English is one of the most important things for any college degree. I can hardly put a CV together and certainly wouldn't be able for a thesis.

Apologies if what I say comes across as patronising, or angers you. I'm only going on what you're posting. And I'm posting quickly, so I haven't got time to be diplomatic.

Fair enough, you're getting good reports at the jobs you've worked at so far, but that's no guarantee that you can expect good reports further down the line. An impression I was getting from your posts was that you were avoiding tasks that pushed you mentally. That you'd entered a comfort zone within low-skill jobs. I'm always worried when I hear someone say that formalised education isn't their thing, in my experience it's often because they've had some negative educational experience they can't get over.

You might not see yourself designing websites or whatnot, but that doesn't mean that all work that requires higher education of some form isn't your thing.

You come across as reasonably intelligent from your posts, I suspect that you don't give yourself credit for your intelligence. For someone who can't put a CV together, you're doing a damn good job expressing yourself and arguing your point here.

I'm not judging you in my posts, I'm only posting my impressions of you based on what you say in your posts. Feel free to disregard them if you want, I intend no offence.

Nody

Go military, it will definitly help straighten out what you want in life and if you're a hard worker you're not going to have any problems there. Personally I think it should be mandatory service for everyone (regardless of sex) starting as a grunt (to give your brain some "uh duh" time to give you a chance to sort out what to do) for at least one year but hey (:.

penexpers

GaryL wrote: »

And just to back up my last point. I spent last year repeating 3 subjects (out of 11). I could put all my efforts into studying for those subjects which made things a lot easier. I can guarantee you I tried as hard as I could. The highest mark of the 3 subject was 44%. That's simply the level I'm at. You're born the way you are. I happen to be very good at Maths but absolutely terrible at English and other languages. English is one of the most important things for any college degree. I can hardly put a CV together and certainly wouldn't be able for a thesis.

For someone who is "terrible at English" you do a better job of articulating yourself than 99% of people I know.

GaryL

newestUser wrote: »

Apologies if what I say comes across as patronising, or angers you. I'm only going on what you're posting. And I'm posting quickly, so I haven't got time to be diplomatic.

No problem and thanks for replying anyway.

newestUser wrote:

An impression I was getting from your posts was that you were avoiding tasks that pushed you mentally. That you'd entered a comfort zone within low-skill jobs. I'm always worried when I hear someone say that formalised education isn't their thing, in my experience it's often because they've had some negative educational experience they can't get over.

I honestly don't know, maybe you're right. I have a mathematical brain and I really enjoy maths. I watched all of my friends drop out of higher maths in school while I stayed in. I got a B3 in the leaving cert. I also got the exact same score in higher Physics and Economics and I actually did Applied Maths for a while (an optional subject on at 8 in the morning). All subjects obviously involve lots of maths. There's theory involved in Economics too but if I suppose I must have had an interest in the subject if I managed to rememeber that theory for the exam (my memory is terrible). I did ordinary level for the 3 languages (Irish, English, German) and got a C3 in all of them. Also, bar the Chinese students I'd be one of the top in my college class at maths. When it comes to writing reports, etc. I'd be down the bottom.

That tells you a lot about me academically. I remember my guidance counselor in school really pushing me to do a LCA course when I finished school. I should have probably listened to her but all I wanted to do when I left school was computers. I didn't even have much knowledge of what a Computer Science course was about but when I put Computers, Maths and whatever else together it seemed like the perfect course.

If I'm doing anything really challenging it'll have to involve maths tbh. It's the only thing I'm actually good at. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything (bar teaching) that I could get by with just an interest in maths. Also, I simply don't want to spend another 3 or 4 years in college after this year. I finished school at 16. I'm now 21. It depresses me to think I could have a degree by now so I can't imagine how I'd be feeling starting from scratch with no work experience outside of summer jobs.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

GaryL

penexpers wrote: »

For someone who is "terrible at English" you do a better job of articulating yourself than 99% of people I know.

Cheers but you'd see what I mean if I had to write an essay, a report, a letter, etc. Even just simple questions in an exam I struggle to word.

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I'll answer this question first. I don't know. Computers was what I wanted to do and I was ignorant to everything else. I was 16 at the time and the fact I ignored my guidance counceller says it all.

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

There you go. I haven't a clue what any of those jobs are. It would help if my college's career advisors actually replied to my email. It's the first time in my life where I'm really considering my options.

GaryL

Actually, probably an easier answer to the Maths question above is that I only got 320 points in my leaving cert.

Anthony11

Sounds like you should be doing an engineering course. It also sounds like you shouldn't be struggling with your course as much as you are. I might be completely wrong but I'd imagine you did very little work in first year, managed to pass the year but didn't really grasp the fundementals of programming, etc and are on much more advanced topics now and completely lost. That can happen really easily and it's understandable how you might feel it's hopeless to continue from here. If that's the case you need to talk to your lecturers. It's 100% still possible to pass everything this year and go on and do well in your final year. You just need a push in the right direction. Talk to your classmates and see if anyone else is struggling. Ask your lecturers about the possibility of tutorials in tough subjects. Tell them your thinking about dropping out because you're lost. You'll probably find that they're very understanding. I'm sure there are plenty of postgrads available who can give you some grinds. You'd be surprised how quickly you'll pick things up that previously seemed impossible if only you get a little help.

Remember also that 4th year will probably be a lot more project orientated so you can learn by doing as opposed to sitting in a lecture. As for the hopeless at English excuse... as another poster already mentioned, you're clearly well able to articulate your thoughts. Nobody expects a computer science thesis to read like shakespear!!

You've heard this plenty of times before but seriously...

You will regret it if you drop out. Go talk to your lecturers today.

GaryL

There's obviously a chance that I will regret dropping out but there's absolutely zero chance of me regretting getting my head down for the next couple of months. So the obvious conclusion is to try my hardest from now until the January exams and see how they go because I don't have the time to be considering my options.

I think I'm going to have to concede on the subject which I have a test for on Thursday. If I try to study for that and the one on Friday I'm certain I'd fail both because it is really impossible to put 2 months work into 2 days. I do feel I could maybe pass Friday's exam if I concentrated on that until Friday. It means getting off the internet now though.

It's a big risk to take a fail in one subject but it's my only option at this moment in time. If I pass the rest I can carry it into 4th year.

prendy

today is tuesday...you deffo have time and im not being smart..
start the friday one tonight, do a few hours then all day tommorow on the thurs one.
then back to the friday one on thurs night...it deffo can be done.

dont just ignore one...

penexpers

Hey another thing to consider. I know a guy who decided that college wasn't for him, ended up working in Conduit for a few years and is now working in a dead end desk job (and has been for a few years now) with no chance for promotion. Every job he goes for he's shot down cos he doesn't have a college qualification. A degree is pretty vital to get anywhere. Most employers won't really care what subject it's in, just the fact that you have one.

LuckyStar

I have just got my first job as a graduate with a biology degree. I am on 24K a year, I work for an enormous international company, in a nice quiet office where I am treated as an adult. I can afford nice clothes and wear them to work. I can go to the toilet without having to ask permission and have intelligent conversation with the other people with my office. The person in the job the next rank up from mine was in my job less than a year ago.

Before this, I worked full time in a supermarket. You might think my 24K isn't great- it isn't- but I would have to have been working in that supermarket 7 or 8 years to get the equivalent wages. I had to wear the standard uniform which didn't even fit, and would have got in trouble for wearing navy shoes instead of black. I would have been sitting on a checkout, not allowed to leave it to go to the toilet without asking (like being in Junior Infants), not allowed a cup of tea or a bar of chocolate unless I was on a break, and I spent my lunchtimes in the canteen with the rest of the checkout chicks- most of them "howaya"'s that left school at 16 who spend their weekends high on pills and whose hoop earrings are bigger than their wages. The chance of promotion is low- there are people in that shop 25 years that are still sitting on checkouts- the bottom rung, and even if you do become a supervisor, you don't get a cent of a payrise.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to sound like a snob. But I have seen both sides of the track. Without a degree you have less options. Believe me, it feels so much better to say "I have a degree in biology and I work for <big respectable company> than "I have a leaving cert and I work in a supermarket".

GaryL

After talking to a few people I've decided to work for the year and go back to college in September. I'd like to try office work and I'm just wondering how I should go about applying? I've just spent the last few hours putting my CV together and I want to get applying asap with Christmas coming up.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

LadyGodiva

Hi Gary
Please dont be offended but I think there is a good chance that you are dyslexic. You sound just like a friend of mine , good at maths but report writing, verbal skills not so good. I advice you to check it out
I also think that you should go ahead and get the degree. Ask the college for help, your tutors, find out of other students are struggling too.

Having a degree is an added advantage its not insurance but it gives you a plus n a very competitive world!

Good Luck

GaryL

The guidance counselor pretty much made me realise I hadn't lost interest in computers and if I was up to scratch on my course work I'd be enjoying it.

Anyway, I have an interview with an agency for an IT job tomorrow. If she asks why I decided to defer the year 3 months in what should I tell her?

DublinWriter

GaryL wrote: »

Anyway, I have an interview with an agency for an IT job tomorrow. If she asks why I decided to defer the year 3 months in what should I tell her?

Tell her that you wanted to get some 'real-world' experience before the I.T. job marketplace began to slow down.