First HTPC Build: €859 AMD 5600+, 2GB, 1TB, HDMI, 1080P or €927 with Intel C2D 6550

aidancoughlan

Hi All, I’ve been searching around the forums and on the net for the last few weeks. Never built a PC before, and barely knew what a motherboard was before then... what a learning curve !
I’m looking to build a HTPC as a media server to put in a TV cabinet under my TV, and I’ve listed some of my research so far; I’m hoping some of you can offer either general advice, but particularly any specific to the components I’ve narrowed down to. Basically anything that will help me avoid expensive and time-costly mistakes... and hopefully it might be helpfull to anyone else thinking along on the same lines.
I’ve posted my proposed configurations at the bottom
- €859 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+, 2GB, 1TB, full HDMI,Audio output +,USB,Wireless etc.
- €927 Core 2 D 6550, same configuration

My main purpose is to
- play music to 5.1 system
- show photos on HDMI/DVI 40” 1080P television
- play DivX movies to TV.
- Will also consider adding a BlueRay/HDDVD drive when prices come down, so needs to be HDCP compatible and capable of 1080P.
- It needs to look well and be accessible via wireless media keyboard/joystick.
- I have Sky+ at home and like it, so I don’t plan to install a TV tuner or record to disk from TV at the moment.
- I dont’ plan on gaming at all, but would like to be able to play the odd game if need be – so I would like to be able to upgrade the graphics card if need be.

My decision making process/selections so far have been...
- Sticking to .IE sites (komplett, dabs, elara etc)
- Micro-ATX case (apparently keeps costs down) – I’ve picked an Antec Fusion V2 which seems to get good reviews.
- 2 * Samsung spinpoint 500GB disks, which are apparently quiet
- 2GB RAM, I have a copy of Windows Vista
- Motherboard: Micro-ATX obviously, there are several which include HDMI/HDCP output with onboard graphics apparently capable of 1080P output. I wont be gaming, so will try avoid a full graphics card if I don’t need it. I’m aiming for HDMI/HDCP output,1080P support, 4 or so USB 2.0 ports, 5.1 Sound output (don’t know much about this), an expansion Slot for Graphics in case I find I need it, a wireless card, and one spare, connectors for at least 2 SATA drives, and a firewire if possible (Is this quicker than USB 2.0?)I’ve narrowed it to...

- INTEL :ABIT Fatal1ty F-190HD http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=332419
This seems to have everything except a firewire connection....

- INTEL: GA-G33M-S2H http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=337835
This board has a big advantage in that is supports the next range of 45nm processor from Intel, which may mean it will last for a good few years yet. It has most of the on-board features , except a BIG Down-side is that the PCI Express card is X16 but “operates at X4 mode” – I gather this means it wont support normal graphics cards? – although I’ve found a link suggesting the 7300GT might work in that slot http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1045/9/page_9_benchmarks_final_thoughts/index.html

- ADM: GA-MA69GM-S2H http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfullat.asp?productcode=MMEE080601
This seems to have all the on-board features needed, with good recent reviews at <http://techgage.com/article/gigabyte_ga-ma69gm-s2h/ and <http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1114/13/page_13_final_thoughts/index.html&gt;

- ADM: Abit AN-M2HD http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=335665
This seems to have all the on-board features needed, with review at http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/motherboards/abit-an-m2hd/5

If INTEL, is it worth choosing a 45nm Motherboard – the only m-ATX one I can find is the GA-G33M-S2H, and also it seems very well specc’ed in every other aspect, it has a big disadvantage as I mentioned earlier (PCIe only uses X4 slots)

Still looking for guidance on...
- I havnt researched wireless couch keyboards/joysticks/remote yet so any recommendations welcome
- MOTHEBOARDS:
o Is Firewire an important connection? – is it significantly quicker than usb 2.0 ?
o Is the PCIExpress limitation on the GA-G33M-S2H motherboard a big issue?; otherwise it has one big advantage in supporting the new 45nm Penryn chips apparently coming out soon....
o Are there any other significant differences between these motherboards that I am overlooking ? Which would you pick ?

- WHICH PROCESSOR?:
o AMD or INTEL ? From what I can gather, the Intel Core Duo range are more powerfull, and cooler than AMD Athlon 64 X2 chips, though I see both equally recommended for HTPCs – AMD seems to appear in cheaper systems more often. One last time, ....any definitive views ?
o Any comments on which specific CPU selection, I’ve guessed at either Athlon64 X2 5600+, or Intel Core2Duo 6550 – which seem equally matched for HDTV playback based on CPU charts at Toms Hardware http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=946&model2=882&chart=441


- COMPATABILITY, ANYTHING MISSING?:
o Have I picked stuff that is obviously incompatible ?
o Have I forgotten any stuff ?
o Cooling: Do I need more Fans ? the case has two * 120mm fans – will these cool the whole lot ?



CASE, DISKS etc.
Antec Fusion Case €199 www.komplett.ie
2 * 500GBSamsung €200 www.komplett.ie
DVD drive €33 www.komplett.ie
= SUB TOTAL €450 approx

ANCILLIARIES (keyboard, mouse, remote etc.)
Wireless Keyboard/Mouse €50 (find one?)
Remote €50 (find one?)
Wireless PCI Adapter €30?
= SUB TOTAL €100

= BASE TOTAL €600

AMD MOTHERBOARDS & PROCESSORS
AMD MOTHERBOARD + RAM + PROCESSOR
1st choice=Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H - €82 www.elara.ie
Or Abit AN-M2HD - €83 www.komplett.ie
2GB Corsair DDR2 800 - €72 www.komplett.ie
= SUB TOTAL €154

+ AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ €135 www.komplett.ie
=TOTAL €259

OVERALL €859 + AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.0ghz €152 - www.Komplett.ie
=TOTAL €276

OVERALL €890


INTEL MOTHERBOARDS & PROCESSORS
INTEL MOTHERBOARD + RAM + PROCESSOR
Undecided between ABIT Fatal1ty F-190HD - €100 www.komplett.ie
Or GA-G33M-S2H (45nm compat, but PCIex1 only) @ €105
2GB Corsair DDR2 800 - €72 www.komplett.ie
= SUB TOTAL €172

+ Core 2 D 6550
@ €155
www.komplett.ie
=TOTAL €327

OVERALL €927 No price for E6600
(equiv to AMD
6000+)


OTHER SAMPLE ANTEC FUSION BUILDS
<http://tf.erzz.com/2007/08/07/building-a-media-centrecenter-htpc/&gt;
http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2026&Itemid=166
<http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-012-OK&groupid=43&catid=968&subcat=&gt;

<http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-013-OK&groupid=43&catid=968&subcat=&gt;
<http://blogs.msdn.com/pandrew/archive/2007/01/21/new-windows-media-center-xp-mce-pc.aspx&gt;
<http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11994635&gt;

SouperComputer

dont have time to go though the whole post right now, but at a glance, from what you mention that you need above its money down the drain IMO.

What you are looking for is a glorified media player, if yoiu are sticking with sky+ and dont plan going for HDDVD/BluRay for a while then go for an older PC.

If you insist on spending the money go for a lower spec intel CPU and overclock it.

Micro ATX may save money, but generally you will have less space, and therefore less airflow and therefore more potiential cooling issues.

aidancoughlan

Hi SouperComputer, thanks for the reply.

How do you mean its "money down the drain"... do you reckon it totally over-specc'ed? The Case is as cheap as I could find for a decent looking unit, the 2GB (vista), 1TB (I want to store movies & back up my laptops & photos) seem reasonable to me. The Motherboard choices I've arrived at by looking for microAtx with HDMI/HDCP output and on-board graphics capable of 1080P output - but there may be cheaper choices out there that fit the bill, but I sure as hell cant find them!

The one area I am totally unsure of is the processor - I not sure whether to go for AMD or Intel, and which one in the range... maybe I've gone overboard here? It's hard to figure out what is a minimum for reliably playing blue-ray disks to a 1080P TV..... any advice from anybody appreciated. I looked up lower spec intel processors after SouperComputer's comment and got several good reports of overclocking a E2160 (I dont know much about this, but will find out), which is only €73 on komplett.ie - will save €80 off the price, but couldn't find any references to people using it for HD playback in a HTPC, but I will look into it more.

On the case, I also considered a Zalman HD160, which is full ATX but its €100dearer, and has 80mm fans instead of 120mm fans on the Antec case (which are apparently quieter).

I'm not too sure where I can save too much more on this configuration - though I may drop one of the hard drives until I really need the second one, and will consider a slower processor. When you sais "go for an older PC", did you mean a second-hand one. I have an old PIII Dell B800, but I doubt if it would be up to the job, and would be a bit noisey for the living room.

any more input appreciated...

SouperComputer

It alll depends on how soon you plan watching HD content. Thats the only thing pushing spec. Otherwise any chip of 1.6Ghz P4 or eqiv will be fine.
If you dont plan shelling out for HD in a year or so, id be going with hardware that is cheap to replace if you damage it, especially as its your first build.

Even if you dont plan watching HD content for six months, id still go with a lower spec, then you will get more for your money when you need it and you can resign the older machine to be a fileserver/NAS, rather than having those horrible, noise and heat producing HD's in your precious HTPC.


PIII would do it alright, but you would have to use GB-PVR or MythTV. If this is your first PC build im going ho hazard a guess that you wont be playing arond with linux, so that leaves GB-PVR or maybe Geexbox which is also linux but dead handy to setup.

If you plan watching HD content streight away, then go for that spec. The E2160 should be fine if OC'd. Some 1080P content may not play at stock speed, but all 720Ps should be fine.

One thing you have to remember is that not all HD is created equal, there are not only different res's but bitrates and more importantly different compression codecs. Some will play on slower machines, some are much more taxing.

subway

you can pick up a 3ghz optiplex gx280 for around 200euro on ebay.
you can add a tv card, hard drives, low profile graphics and digital audio to that on a budget of around 250 if you look around and grab a few second hand / ebay bargains.

the optiplex range are virtually silent and not very power gungry (180 watt psu)
ive 2 running as media centres (1 here and 1 in the parents) and no complaints.

SouperComputer

subway wrote: »

you can pick up a 3ghz optiplex gx280 for around 200euro on ebay.
you can add a tv card, hard drives, low profile graphics and digital audio to that on a budget of around 250 if you look around and grab a few second hand / ebay bargains.

the optiplex range are virtually silent and not very power gungry (180 watt psu)
ive 2 running as media centres (1 here and 1 in the parents) and no complaints.

Have you tried any HD content on it? My gut is that it will be fine, can you try a 1080p sample from
here, for the OP's benefit.

/edit

it would be great if there was a util out there that ran a benchmark for the most common codecs & bitrates so you could see how your system will peform before you commit to a drive.

aidancoughlan

Hi Guys,

Subway, many thanks for the input, its prompted me to have a look around at second-hand Optiplex's, though I'm not a fan of the gx280 case (parents have one), and I dont think it would fit in our TV cabinet - or look decent if it did. The Optiplex 745 seems a better bet since its all dark black and is SFF'ish (use one at work). But I can't help thinking that by the time I pick up a P4 PC, upgrade the graphics, and memory to suit the motherboard I've spent the guts of €400-500, and spent time & effort in doing so. (Remember I have a legit copy of Vista (with MCE) to run, and this machine may struggle a bit with vista). I'm not keen on getting into Linux at this point, and also dont want another PC around the house (have 2 old boxes & 2 laptops lying around already).

If I leave out the second 500GB drive, and use a motherboard with onboard graphics capable of 1080P playback instead of a dedicated gfx card, I can get away with around €800 all up for a machine that should handle HD no problem. This will leave me with a spec that I can add a blue-ray drive to - for around €200 at the moment (compared to €600 for a PS3 or dedicated blue-ray player). I suspect the blue-ray component drives will come down in price in the new year - I would probably buy within 6 months - we watch a lot of DVD at home and are tempted by the HD since Xtravision started renting Blue-rays at normal prices.

It will also be used for web browsing, and the odd game - so the P4 may struggle a bit there too (on the games at least).

I take the point of heat generated by the hard drives - I hadnt considered that - another reason to stick with one drive for the moment - I may press my old PIII into service as a fileserver when I run out of space.

Soupercomputer.... thanks for the link on the HD content on microsoft site - it prompted me to get my Inspiron 9400 laptop connected to the TV - it looks brill, although I couldnt seem to set the laptop at full 1080 resolution - wasnt important to me at the time, though I thought it was capable.

t would be great if there was a util out there that ran a benchmark for the most common codecs & bitrates so you could see how your system will peform before you commit to a drive.

... did a quick search, there is a benchmark you can download - but its commericial & costs. Instead of a benchmark, I wonder would there be interest in a sticky thread where users could simply post their specs, and how they got on playing those HD clips ?


best regards & thanks.

SouperComputer

Vista will be fine on a P4. Im running it with 1GB RAM (effectively 768 as I have a linux machine in VMware using 256MB) and a 3.0Ghz single core prescott CPU. Its my primary MCE rig at the moment. Personally, I hate eye candy, so I have all that BS turned off.

Most half-decent graphics cards will play HD with ease. IVe had 1080P content on FX5200's, the only reason you may consider a snazzier card is if you MUST have HDCP.

P4 is also unlikely to cause a bottleneck with most games. Graphics card however is another story.

FrankGrimes

Hi Aidan,

I'd defer to the superior technical knowledge of Souper etc. for details of components etc, but just wanted to say good luck with the build and don't be afraid to take it on - it's pretty rewarding when you do get it working.

About 18 months ago I hadn't a clue how to build a PC but thanks to help here and on avforums.com, I'm now building my 5th PC for a mate. It's straightforward enough, but only when you've double and triple checked your components are compatible. I actually find getting the software configured to allow Divx, HD, 5.1 etc. playback to work smoothly to be more hassle than the actual build.

That said, when self-building you're far more likely to over rather than under-spec, cos it's just hard to order the most basic components on the list. This is fine if budget allows it, but be sure to keep noise in mind and ensure the extra power doesn't lead to extra noise - that's one of my main focus when building a HTPC.

Also, I agree with Souper that building a HTPC without using it for TV does sound like overkill - would you consider getting 2 normal Sky boxes and inputting them to a dual TV Tuner card (e.g. PVR 500 MCE) to give you similar (better) functionality as Sky+?

BigEejit

Just putting in my 2c;

I have Vista Ultimate running on a P4 2.4 (not overclocked) with 1GB ram and a Ati radeon 9800pro... I have a freeview card and can easily watch and record TV broadcasts using Vista MCE. I have also played HD movies (not HDCP) ... only at 720p mind due to my TV being 1368x720 and me using standard 15pin rgb connection from my graphics card

The downside on this? the pc is working much harder and so is making more noise than it was when running Linux MCE or even plain old mce2005. Aside from watercooling I wont be making it much quieter as I am already using Zalman cooling on the graphics card and cpu (and using a good quiet psu as well!)

So going for a newer spec will buy you that quietness ... and throwing in a couple of tuner cards will definitely raise the functionality of the system

P.S. Really liking the case

aidancoughlan

Hi folks, thanks again for the response. Interesting that both SouperComputer and BigEejit both manage ok with Vista on a P4 with only 1GB, presumably it manages ok. I run WinXP on a 1GB P4 in work and spend most of my day cursing for having to wait for the PC to catch up. (I run lots of progs concurrently & switch like hell). I suppose it's a different kind of usage though. Adding a Gig to a colleague's machine made hell of a difference.

It's interesting that BigEejit and Frank intimate different points of view on the heat/noise issue - BigEejit found his P4 working harded and creating more noise under vista, and Frank wonders about adding the extra power in CPU etc. might would possibly increase noise/heat. From what I can gather, a Core2Duo is apparently cooler to start with, and will be working less hard.. so I'm inclined for the latter.

Also, I agree with Souper that building a HTPC without using it for TV does sound like overkill - would you consider getting 2 normal Sky boxes and inputting them to a dual TV Tuner card (e.g. PVR 500 MCE) to give you similar (better) functionality as Sky+?

I'm intrigued by this - I did/may still do at some point consider getting a Satellite dish for free-to-air channels, but am reluctant to ditch sky since weve got used to it (I havnt compared channells with the basic Sky package directly though), and the HD content may broaden enough to upgrade after a while. I wonder about adding a second Sky box (they do a multi-room package) - how does this look a HTPC - does it just look like two fixed channells, or can the HTPC switch between sky channels to record shows. Is there some EPG (electronic program guide) interface that enables you to pick what to record ? Also, If I did ditch sky and got free-to-air, does anybody know if you can record more than one channell at a time from the satellite, would that need two dishes?

SouperComputer

I should probably clarify, Im running Vista as a media centre/server with 768Mb RAM. Using it as my everyday computer would not be on my list of fun things to do. The other vista machine, sure enough has 2GB and a Core2Duo. All the others run a mix of linux, OS X, Win 2K and in one case win98.

mathias

can the HTPC switch between sky channels to record shows. Is there some EPG (electronic program guide) interface that enables you to pick what to record ? Also, If I did ditch sky and got free-to-air, does anybody know if you can record more than one channell at a time from the satellite, would that need two dishes?

With the MCE remote , you get IR blasters , these attach to your satellite boxes to auto switch channels , so yes MCE can switch channels.

MCE has a sky EPG that it downloads , so yes , it does have an interface for you to record.

With any satellite system , you generally have one dish and an LNB is mounted on the dish. LNB's come in single , dual , quad , octal versions , most people with Sky + would have a Quad LNB , this means four lines can be run down from the dish. To record any program takes one line and to watch any program takes one line unless you already have it recorded .

If you follow that , then you see that you need a line for each separate concurrent program that you want to record.

So for your final question , recording two channels needs two lines not two dishes .

aidancoughlan

Hi Matthias.... sorry for bumping this thread after a few days idle.... thanks for your answer on controlling the Sky from a MCE HTPC.

I think I get it.... the Sky+ box I have needs two 'lines' from the dish - one for watching a program live and another for recording a program (while I am using the other to watching the live feed).

I attach an 'IR blaster' that comes with the MCE remote to the satellite box - and the MCE remote then talks to the sky box to change channells via the MCE remote. Presumably the HTPC itself can talk to the Sky box via the same mechanism to change channels on my behalf via the EPG or whatever software mechanism there is in MCE for recording purposes when I'm not there?

If I have a Quad LNB (After your comment & a google, it seems likely this was installed at the time I got Sky+), then that means there are still two outputs free. However, I presume that I would need to route these through a Sky decoder box to make them usable ? Not that I want to do this, but if I understand it correctly, the max I could do would be add two more sky decoders taking a single line each. Then I would be using the first line for viewing, and the HTPC could potentially record from each of the remaining three lines via the three boxes at once?