What is it with Alfas?

Triangle

I like cars! It took me 1 1/2 years to find my next car i'm so particular on the car i drive (yeah i know it's a bit toooo long!)

Anyways, since i started on boards - motors - a lot of posts have been about Alfa's and how they are the ultimate driving machines (or just favorites)

I can't seem to understand this - can someone please enlighten me in this respect (I only want alfa enthusiasts to reply, i dont want a debate)

Thanks.


Edit: I'm not try to troll just understand alfas (i've never driven one!!)

crosstownk

Great cars to drive. Unfortunately, they don't have a great track record when it comes to reliability.

Triangle

crosstownk wrote: »

Great cars to drive. Unfortunately, they don't have a great track record when it comes to reliability.

This is just it - People always talk about the drive and so and so...

But what exactly is it? Top Gear (!!!!) all agree that alfas are car owners cars - this i kinda understand.

But just what makes alfas great cars to drive - i'm really intrested (to the point of going to an alfa dealer and trying it for myself)

Keep it coming please..

Oilrig

My Alfa experience started with Alfasuds - an amazing car at the time.

Eventually gave up, build quality and reliability is due south of utter rubbish.
A mate recently changed to a Civic after a lifetime of Alfas, when they get to the stage that they're changing engines under warranty due to oil consumption its time to move on. Especially in this day and age.

techie

I drive an Alfa!!!!

Its a 147 1.6 Twin Spark and you have to drive one to find out!!!!! :D

unkel

Triangle wrote: »

a lot of posts have been about Alfa's and how they are the ultimate driving machines

I think you mixed up the ads there

bloke

Triangle wrote: »

I can't seem to understand this - can someone please enlighten me in this respect (I only want alfa enthusiasts to reply, i dont want a debate)

Guess I can reply as an alfaowner :-)

Some honest thoughts from a little while ago:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54118675&postcount=35

The most noticeable difference in driving experience for me is the quick steering. Not many turns lock-to-lock which enhances the sporty feel and results in my taking a few unitentionally wide turns in other people's cars! Suspension works well (due to the dual wishbone thingys apparently) though it does wear out quite a lot - and the sporty looks have to have some psychological boost to the driving experience ;-)

Whatever it is, I always smile when getting back into the alfa after most other cars and that helps to forgive a lot ;-)

techie

bloke wrote: »

Guess I can reply as an alfaowner :-)

Some honest thoughts from a little while ago:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54118675&postcount=35

The most noticeable difference in driving experience for me is the quick steering. Not many turns lock-to-lock which enhances the sporty feel and results in my taking a few unitentionally wide turns in other people's cars! Suspension works well (due to the dual wishbone thingys apparently) though it does wear out quite a lot - and the sporty looks have to have some psychological boost to the driving experience ;-)

Whatever it is, I always smile when getting back into the alfa after most other cars and that helps to forgive a lot ;-)

Could not have said it better myself, I always smile too when getting back into the 147 after driving other cars!!!!

BostonB

Triangle wrote: »

....
Anyways, since i started on boards - motors - a lot of posts have been about Alfa's and how they are the ultimate driving machines (or just favorites)...

Theres better cars to drive. I think its the character that people like.

pburns

I lusted after a 147/156 for years. When the time to buy eventually came, I test-drove a 147 but was a little bit disappointed by the light steering - I thought it would have more of a 'meaty' feel as a supposed driver's car. In the end though, the real reason I couldn't commit to an Alfa was because of the terrible reliability rep and poor residuals.

Also, as modern Alfas are FWD and conventionally engineered on FIAT platforms, I don't understand how they could possibly offer anything different or special in terms of driver involvement. Bimmers may be a bit ugly and over-priced but at least they offer something different to their competitors - RWD, good weight distribution. etc.

I bought a Mazda 6 Sports Touring instead - great looks (IMO), great handling and Japanese reliability - a 'thinking man's' Alfa 156/9! There are too many good alternatives these days to make the heartache worthwhile.

Eoin

I used to drive a 156, but only the 1.6 litre version. I recently borrowed my dad's 2.0 version because my current car was in the garage. I had forgotten what a joy the Alfa is to drive - as bloke says, only a short turn lock-to-lock, and lovely suspension. Admittedly my current car is no super car in its own right (e46 320d), but I have to say I would find it very hard to pick between the two if fuel consumption wasn't a big factor.

BostonB

You can get great handling FWD cars and bad handling RWD cars so I don't get your logic there.

THEDONWALDO

had a 02 156 2.0 for a while, nicest car I have ever driven! Pity about the reliability issues though!

alias no.9

pburns wrote: »

Also, as modern Alfas are FWD and conventionally engineered on FIAT platforms, I don't understand how they could possibly offer anything different or special in terms of driver involvement.

It may be possible to trace the origins of the platform back to the fiat tipo but it would be foolish to dismiss it as a tipo in drag. The chassis has benefited greatly from the addition of
- quick rack steering
- double wishbone front suspension
- multilink rear suspension with unequal length links that give passive rear steering
These things combined with very eager engines and a nice exhaust note combine to give a very rewarding drive.

Eoin

BostonB wrote: »

You can get great handling FWD cars and bad handling RWD cars so I don't get your logic there.

I was just saying I really liked driving the Alfa and would find it hard to choose between it and my BMW if I had to start over again.

BrianD3

Another factor in the appeal of Alfa Romeo is its motorsport heritage. Even if there is not a very close relationship between road cars and racing cars any link at all is great for image. Alfa have capitalised on this with sporty looks, good engines and handling in most of its cars which reinforces the link/image.

Ronan|Raven

Was looking at a 156 second hand as a purchase. Are the reliability issues really as bad as people say?! Then again the pricing may seem to suggest that.

BostonB

BrianD3 wrote: »

Another factor in the appeal of Alfa Romeo is its motorsport heritage. Even if there is not a very close relationship between road cars and racing cars any link at all is great for image. Alfa have capitalised on this with sporty looks, good engines and handling in most of its cars which reinforces the link/image.

I think thats as important as anything else.

JHMEG

alias no.9 wrote: »

- multilink rear suspension with unequal length links

What type of rear suspension?

I always took "multi-link rear suspension" to mean "we cheaped out a bit and didn't do the double wishbones at the back"

Triangle

thanks for all the replies - it seems to me to be a bit of a personal issue..

When i first asked this question - it was more of a passing question i always wanted a definate answer on. I should have realised it din't exist!
Now it's taken a life of it's own - now I have a NEED to test drive one.
For better or for worse - I'm just going to have to do it!

Thanks again all.
Trig

Triangle

Double Post - Sorry!

cjt156

I've owned two 156s and clocked up over 100,000 miles on them without having to replace anything other than consumables.
My current 2.0TS is a gem and has a lovely balance of power and handling. The Italian styling inside & out, the subtly-growling exhaust note and the effortless way it flicks through tight bends or roundabouts puts a smile on my face every day.
Its not as powerful as an M5, or as mental as an EVO, or as luxurious as a Bently; but I've no aspiration to own any of those cars. The first time I saw a 156 on TV I knew I'd get one one day.
I still look back at it when I get out, even after sitting in the M50 traffic, because to my mind its the most beautiful mass-produced saloon of the last 30-odd years.

bazz26

I actually prefer the 156 styling to the newer 159, especially in Ti form.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

I actually prefer the 156 styling to the newer 159, especially in Ti form.

What's that then?

astraboy

I recently bought a 00 156 1.8. I love it. Everyone said don't buy one, but I went ahead with it. Great looking car, a joy to drive and engine is superb. Economical, with plenty of power for passing out when needed. Great sound off it. It does use a little bit of oil, more so then my previous astra. In this case, the 156 needs to be checked under the bonnet EVERY week. This is why some owners, not used to keeping an eye on such things, may have found reliability issues. They are not a corolla, they need attention. They are like an italian girlfriend, need plenty of attention but the rewards are massive! Compare the 156 to similar saloons, it has a certain style about it that I absolutely love, I smile every time I drive it.

BostonB

astraboy wrote: »

...It does use a little bit of oil, more so then my previous astra. In this case, the 156 needs to be checked under the bonnet EVERY week. This is why some owners, not used to keeping an eye on such things, may have found reliability issues. ...

So its the owners fault.

Marcus.Aurelius

Alfas are gorgeous cars, looks and performance-wise. They can be a handful, don't think italian girlfriend, think italian mobster with a hatchet!

If you get lucky, you can get years out of an Alfa, but more often than not, you'll lose a lot of money with the engines!

Would you consider perhaps a more reliable car with better handling/performance? I would see the older Hondas as being excellent for this?

Try driving a legend coupe and then tell me it's not fun!

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What's that then?

Ti stands for Turismo Internazionale. It is basically a special edition trim level including sports suspension, subtle body kit, larger alloy wheels and leather sports interior:

alias no.9

JHMEG wrote: »

What type of rear suspension?

[nerd] There's two transverse arms at each side on the rear, one connecting to the front of the hub carrier and the other connecting to the rear of the hub carrier. The front one is longer than the rear. As the car rolls going around and the body pushes down on the suspension of the outside rear wheel, the the hub carrier is pushed further outwards at the front by the long arm than at the rear by the short arm. This has the effect of steering the rear wheels and making it go around corners better.[/nerd]

JHMEG wrote:

I always took "multi-link rear suspension" to mean "we cheaped out a bit and didn't do the double wishbones at the back"

Possibly, but everything is down to cost/benefit at the end of the day, I guess they felt that passive rear steering benefited handling more than double wishbone, not that the two couldn't have been combined by adding a top link.

galwaytt

alias no.9 wrote: »

Possibly, but everything is down to cost/benefit at the end of the day, I guess they felt that passive rear steering benefited handling more than double wishbone, not that the two couldn't have been combined by adding a top link.

true, and to continue the nerd train........if you stretch the analogy of multi=cheap, then logically we should all drive live axle rear drive cars with leaf springs, or the old Audi single tube torsion back axle.....

Well, that's obviously not going to happen ........

astraboy

BostonB wrote: »

So its the owners fault.

Some of the issues are, yes. Irish people(massive generalization here) tend not to look after their cars as well as people in other European countries or the US. Cars are viewed as tools, nothing more. To own an alfa you do really need to be enthusiastic about looking after it, and spending a bit on it to get it serviced right. I'm not for a moment denying a 156 is not as reliable in general as a corolla, but I know which one I'd rather own and I've put my money where my mouth is!:)

BostonB

astraboy wrote: »

Some of the issues are, yes. Irish people(massive generalization here) tend not to look after their cars as well as people in other European countries or the US. Cars are viewed as tools, nothing more. To own an alfa you do really need to be enthusiastic about looking after it, and spending a bit on it to get it serviced right. I'm not for a moment denying a 156 is not as reliable in general as a corolla, but I know which one I'd rather own and I've put my money where my mouth is!:)

Therefore that would mean in other countries that Alfa's would be far more reliable than they are in Ireland?

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/A/alfaromeo/15603-/15603--relqual.html?noforward=tr
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/A/alfaromeo/15603-/15603--relqual.html?noforward=true

So if there was a Irish survey it would be worse?

Fiats and Alfa's maybe better than they were, but they still aren't quite there in terms of build quality and reliability. Nice cars but you need to know what your getting into.

deegs

Alfa's are a special thing. Those that know know, thase that dont want to!

Try one, make up your own mind. The people that complain about reliability state that if an alfa costs 300 to maintain a year and a ford costs 50 to maintain a year than alfas are not as reliable....

This is nuts, the fact of the matter is you are not buying a mondeo, you are buying a baby ferarri, and you need to take more care of it. If thats too expensive, fine, but it is not less reliable just because the owner loves teh engine roar but has never checked his oil in 8 months :rolleyes:

Btw, im not biased... but i do own a 146 and GTV

junkyard

deegs wrote: »

you are buying a baby ferarri, :rolleyes:

Is it this time of the month already......... your buying a FIAT actually;)

Lex Luthor

TROLL.....................:rolleyes:

astraboy wrote: »

In this case, the 156 needs to be checked under the bonnet EVERY week.

a bit overkill every week if you ask me....

I check every 2-3 months and it just needs half a litre topping up....going on 90,000mls and nearly 8yrs old on my 156

bazz26 wrote: »

I actually prefer the 156 styling to the newer 159, especially in Ti form.

don't like those Ti wheels.....

colm_mcm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I check every 2-3 months and it just needs half a litre topping up....going on 90,000mls and nearly 8yrs old on my 156

Didn't realise you had a 156! which model is it?

galwaytt

Triangle wrote: »

(i've never driven one!!)

That's your problem, right there.

JHMEG

deegs wrote: »

The people that complain about reliability state that if an alfa costs 300 to maintain a year and a ford costs 50 to maintain a year than alfas are not as reliable....

It's not as simple as that, and neither is that a good comparison. Some cars just cost lots more for regular things like oil changes than others, usually, but not always related to the badge.

There is no doubt they are very nicely styled (tho the interior is not good quality in terms of fit and finish), nice engines and nice to drive, but some of the problems affecting Alfas should just not happen in this day and age. For example the bulbs in the brake light strip on the back window actually melt the strip. Now that's one I know about and have seen first hand, as well as the sellafield gearbox shutting down going around roundabouts, 3rd gear decides to go missing from time to time, and while the roundabouts thing was cured by a software upgrade, 3rd gear still has a mind of its own, as well as the gearbox deciding to shut down in stop-start traffic.

If they had got the basics right they would be truly fantastic cars.

deegs

JHMEG wrote: »

......
If they had got the basics right they would be truly fantastic cars.

They are! Ive had 2 alfa's for over 7 years and never has one left me down, and ive never had to anything besides sparks, oil, brakes and belts.

Ive had plenty of seats, BMW's and seen my friends/familys have many other probs. but they dont look after a car as good as i do!

Chalk and cheese in my book, i dont think the alfa will inheriently break down, but i think if the owner doesnt take care they will.

whosedaddy?

like deegs said, its an emotional thing...

The ones that have one will defend it based on their experience - the ones that don't have one (never driven one) will run it down based on hear say and statistics.

Yes they have some quirks - but if you get a Jap lemon - what good is any statistic?

For a lot of people driving a car they love is more important than driving a car that is economicly sensible, but they don't quite like the way it looks and drives.

zing

Speaking of Alfa's hows the the 159 fairing from a depreciation point of view ? Not really enough on the online car sites to get a feel for second hand prices. Due to change my car soon and after having a 156 a few years back I'd love to go back to an Alfa. But need to look at the bigger picture including how much one can expect to get for it further down the road.

siralfalot

whosedaddy? wrote: »

For a lot of people driving a car they love is more important than driving a car that is economicly sensible, but they don't quite like the way it looks and drives.

thank you! I've driven Passats, Avensis's, Corollas, Golfs etc and to be honest I never got any enjoyment out of any of them, they were just a tool or appliance to get too and from work, the Alfa feels different, it never ever fails to put a smile on my face, even from just looking at it.
I've had 3 156's now, none of them have ever let me down, but then i just love looking after my cars, its not unusual to spend the weekend "fixing" something that doesn't need fixing (usually to get out of a shopping trip ). my current one is for sale as I'm getting my 4th Alfa in the new year, a 147 GTA.

junkyard wrote: »

buying a FIAT actually;)

tell that to Lancia, Maserati and Ferrari owners

I don't get this anti Fiat crap, I also have a 01 Bravo which has never missed a beat, I'll hopefully be getting my hands on a 500 Arbarth when they become available

Zonda999

A 147 gta!!! 260 tru the front wheels . i gotta give it 2 ya ive neva even seen 1 of them in this country. Probably a bit dodgy in the wet.....

Matt Simis

pburns wrote: »

Also, as modern Alfas are FWD and conventionally engineered on FIAT platforms, I don't understand how they could possibly offer anything different or special in terms of driver involvement.

On a related note, Alfa are switching to RWD it seems:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=17075

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, and neither is that a good comparison. Some cars just cost lots more for regular things like oil changes than others, usually, but not always related to the badge.

There is no doubt they are very nicely styled (tho the interior is not good quality in terms of fit and finish), nice engines and nice to drive, but some of the problems affecting Alfas should just not happen in this day and age. For example the bulbs in the brake light strip on the back window actually melt the strip. Now that's one I know about and have seen first hand, as well as the sellafield gearbox shutting down going around roundabouts, 3rd gear decides to go missing from time to time, and while the roundabouts thing was cured by a software upgrade, 3rd gear still has a mind of its own, as well as the gearbox deciding to shut down in stop-start traffic.

If they had got the basics right they would be truly fantastic cars.

ROFL !! Sellafield gearbox ! Ha !

So, by your logic, if we fix the brake light thingy, all we have to do is buy a manual one and it's perfect.!:D

Thank god that's that cleared up then

Lex Luthor

colm_mcm wrote: »

Didn't realise you had a 156! which model is it?

It's a 1.8 TS with the Sport Pack 3 in proteo red.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/aogallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/5377/cat/500

zing wrote: »

But need to look at the bigger picture including how much one can expect to get for it further down the road.

If you are thinking that way already, then you shouldn't be considering to buy another Alfa. You have to take the rough with the smooth

rabbitinlights

What do people think of the 147?

zing

Lex Luthor wrote: »

If you are thinking that way already, then you shouldn't be considering to buy another Alfa. You have to take the rough with the smooth

I accept the rough comes with the smooth with an Alfa - wouldn't be considering another one otherwise. There's a bit of a head Vs heart struggle going on - heart really really wants a 159 - head just needs a bit more convincing.

Will most likely do a trip to the UK for one if the heart wins out. Revenue site only seems to know about 1 petrol version though so will need to get in touch with them to get a proper VRT quote. I know the diesel engines are said to be very good but am driving a diesel atm and don't want another.

Will be into the new year before I change anyway so it certainly won't be an impulse buy.

All it should take are a couple of good cars from Alfa to start clawing them out of the depreciation rut they've been stuck in - could the likes of the 159 & Brera be a step in the right direction ...

Nice 156 btw

Lex Luthor

zing wrote: »

I accept the rough comes with the smooth with an Alfa - wouldn't be considering another one otherwise. There's a bit of a head Vs heart struggle going on - heart really really wants a 159 - head just needs a bit more convincing.

Will most likely do a trip to the UK for one if the heart wins out. Revenue site only seems to know about 1 petrol version though so will need to get in touch with them to get a proper VRT quote. I know the diesel engines are said to be very good but am driving a diesel atm and don't want another.

Will be into the new year before I change anyway so it certainly won't be an impulse buy.

All it should take are a couple of good cars from Alfa to start clawing them out of the depreciation rut they've been stuck in - could the likes of the 159 & Brera be a step in the right direction ...

Nice 156 btw

I didn't get a chance to test drive teh 159 yet, but I had a good look around it and was not overwhelmed by the interior. Build quality looks to have stepped up a bit on the 156, but its a bit German inside if you ask me.

I sort of crossed the 159 off my wish list after that day. However I had a good look inside the GT and its now top of my list if I can get the finances sorted out next year. The Brera although lovely it is, is a bit impractical and too much over budget.

cjt156

galwaytt wrote: »

So, by your logic, if we fix the brake light thingy, all we have to do is buy a manual one and it's perfect.!:D

My brake lights don't melt so that means my car is perfect; wow, thanks!

Lex Luthor

rabbitinlights wrote: »

What do people think of the 147?

not a fan of the facelifted one but like the original one.

I like the 145 a lot more though especially the Cloverleaf ones

The new Bravo looks good also