some thoughts on Aikido...

bealtine

oh yes some thoughts on Aikido...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OqMLzVKAJs

Too many Irish Aikido schools have lost the plot and are tending towards
the two in the video. I've trained with at least two of them and the "nice guys" have taken over and turned this art form into a pale mockery of itself.

PeakOutput

well iv seen the aikido club in ul train and it defo looks like a joke to be honest especially as they train beside the bjj club which looks impressive

maybe its not an accurate representation of the art but i cant see why anyone would want to train it

O'Leprosy

PeakOutput wrote: »

well iv seen the aikido club in ul train and it defo looks like a joke to be honest especially as they train beside the bjj club which looks impressive

maybe its not an accurate representation of the art but i cant see why anyone would want to train it

Jayus, is that ballroom dancing or what the fu*k ?? Imagine a BJJer giving one of those nancy boys a double leg takedown finished with an armbar !!!!!! Or imagine trying that sh!t with Anto and Deco and Whacker in the chipper at 1.30 on a Saturday night :rolleyes:

pearsquasher

I don't do Aikido but even I know that that looks just like a movement and sensitivity drill and not supposed to be realsitic or represent fighting. :rolleyes:

If the naysayers were asked to do that drill with the understanding of what its supposed to do, I bet they'd find it interesing and helpfull if they put asside their bias.

Really, did people think it was actually fighting?

dlofnep

pearsquasher wrote: »

I don't do Aikido but even I know that that looks just like a movement and sensitivity drill and not supposed to be realsitic or represent fighting. :rolleyes:

If the naysayers were asked to do that drill with the understanding of what its supposed to do, I bet they'd find it interesing and helpfull if they put asside their bias.

Really, did people think it was actually fighting?

The sparring videos don't look any different. Just type aikido randori into youtube and see for yourself.

I think Aikido has a few practical applications, but in most part - their overly complex movement and compliant partners who throw themselves on the ground out of respect are a little silly.

pearsquasher

Hey its not my bag either - did it for a while in DCU - I'm just saying that that video shows a movement drill that doesn't warrant comparison to actual fighting.

Plus, Randori isn't fighting either by the way but another movement drill - i'm pretty sure any aikidoka would acknowledge that. It's a no-brainer really.

dlofnep

pearsquasher wrote: »

Hey its not my bag either - did it for a while in DCU - I'm just saying that that video shows a movement drill that doesn't warrant comparison to actual fighting.

Plus, Randori isn't fighting either by the way but another movement drill - i'm pretty sure any aikidoka would acknowledge that. It's a no-brainer really.

Randori is sparring. What they do in aikido randori videos isn't sparring. And if that particular form of aikido doesn't consider their randori element as their sparring element - then what is their sparring element and why have I yet to see one video on youtube of actual aikido sparring against a true resisting opponent?

pearsquasher

then what is their sparring element and why have I yet to see one video on youtube of actual aikido sparring against a true resisting opponent

As I said I don't do aikido so I don't know. But I do know what a movement drill looks like compared to sparring and I do know they call it "randori" NOT "sparring".

From wikipedia: Randori

In other styles of aikido, in particular Aikikai, it refers to a form of practice in which a designated aikidoka defends against multiple attackers in quick succession without knowing how they will attack or in what order. This form of randori is not sparring, and the attackers are usually not allowed to resist or attempt to counter the defender's techniques.

So aikidoka can see the distinction even if you don't. It's a training tool not fighting and not sparring.

The whole "resistance" thing is another no-brainer if you consider that for every vector of resistance there are several vectors of non-resistance and aikido exploits these to the exclusion of striking and weapons (in general, there are exceptions). So effectively, your ideal aikidoka NEVER meets resistance because at the moment it is encountered, it's circumvented. That's the ideal of course.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Trained in Aikido for a while, learned a few good arm locks / throws. But really hated a lot of the B.S. that went with it...

They're is a lot of movement type drills which have no practical element to them at all but thankfully I didn't train in anything like the guys are doing on that video.
I think as the OP has mentioned a lot of Aikido now is a shadow of it's former self.
As mentioned I have seen some University clubs train and it was really pityful compared to how we used to train in our club.

Thank feck I found a decent MMA club.

buck65

Yawn

Rhiannon14

Isn't the whole point of Aikido for it to appear effortless? There's immense power without there being a lot of grunting.

Tim_Murphy

The whole "resistance" thing is another no-brainer if you consider that for every vector of resistance there are several vectors of non-resistance and aikido exploits these to the exclusion of striking and weapons (in general, there are exceptions). So effectively, your ideal aikidoka NEVER meets resistance because at the moment it is encountered, it's circumvented. That's the ideal of course.

That basic theory is great. It's the whole putting the theory in to practise part where people usually fall down.

pearsquasher

.. that's why seeking a good instructor is so important. Of course it's going to be tough to put into practice. The first thing to do, if the theory sounds interesting enough to train in, is to find the best teacher you can in it. Every art has its good and bad ones, thats life.

My own dad got held at knife point and his aikido worked for him..... the giy didn't get a chance to resist plus the hitting part( natural instinct) became handy after the balance-breaking part( trained instinct: aikido).

dlofnep

pearsquasher wrote: »

As I said I don't do aikido so I don't know. But I do know what a movement drill looks like compared to sparring and I do know they call it "randori" NOT "sparring".

Who said anything about a movement drill? I specifically said sparring. And their "sparring" videos on youtube are all compliant.

pearsquasher wrote: »

From wikipedia: Randori

Yes, I can use wikipedia too :rolleyes:

pearsquasher wrote: »

The whole "resistance" thing is another no-brainer if you consider that for every vector of resistance there are several vectors of non-resistance and aikido exploits these to the exclusion of striking and weapons (in general, there are exceptions). So effectively, your ideal aikidoka NEVER meets resistance because at the moment it is encountered, it's circumvented. That's the ideal of course.

Resistance is required to test what you know in theory and put it into "real" practice. So instead of "sparring" where guys openly put their arm out for you to grab - there should be more realism in it.. Which is why I think overall Aikido is trained non-functionally.

Tim_Murphy

.. that's why seeking a good instructor is so important. Of course it's going to be tough to put into practice. The first thing to do, if the theory sounds interesting enough to train in, is to find the best teacher you can in it.

That's one of the reasons I train BJJ, it puts the above theory into practise. Any Aikido I've ever seen has been non-functional, so whilst the theory was fine there was never any real implementation of it.

O'Leprosy

dlofnep wrote: »

compliant partners who throw themselves on the ground out of respect are a little silly.

Well, did you think Fatty Seagull ( Steven Seagal ) does it ?

Roper

Whoa, that's some video.

I'm a 21st Century man, I believe that a dude can dance with another dude and should feel comfortable about it, so stop getting at them. If they like what they're doing, then they should keep reaching for that rainbow, and you all should leave them alone!

takeda shingen

Randori is correctly translated as freedom of movement, freedom of the body. Ran no tori. there is other things out there besides wikipedia and youtube... i know i helps with a common reference point, but you can shape any argument any way you like using those tools...
Yes most aikido is sh1t and im a trad type o guy. Most atemi is gone from it now cos hippies/peace lovin folk train in it. but then again most mma guys think they are the dogs when they are not..
look up yoshinkan aikido for something what it should look like.

crokester

:rolleyes:

Im gonna petition boards to get rolleyes freakin banned! Stop using them, yer like sarky little girls!

Roper

:rolleyes:

Quillo

Just some general observations on "compliance".

Any encounter the bans particular techniques or targets involves compliance. Any encounter where the participants can not call on a friend to assist or produce a weapon involves compliance. In short, if there are rules, there is compliance.

All martial arts and combat systems are practiced with compliance.

Tim_Murphy

Any encounter the bans particular techniques or targets involves compliance. Any encounter where the participants can not call on a friend to assist or produce a weapon involves compliance. In short, if there are rules, there is compliance.

I think that is use of the word compliance would be confusing the issue TBH.

Nothingcompares

i think the intention of all martial arts is to simulate a real fight, but different martial arts removing different type of techniques and some martial arts having a particular preference for a "style". For example, Judo simulates a real fight minus any type of striking while boxing simulates a real fight minus any type of grappling. Aikido simulates a real fight minus the striking also but has a (overly) strong preference for a style of fighting which isn't practical.

pearsquasher

I think Quillo raises some excellent points....and that discussing the use of "compliance" is not confusing the issue at all, as Aikido is often talked of as being too "compliant" in nature. Trying to bring
"sparring" into it is the confusing thing as aikidoka generally don't spar in the sense that other arts do.

MasterChief32

Crokester shut up and enjoy Ney York will ya:rolleyes:

pearsquasher

I don't think that boxing or judo or aikido or any good MA trys to simulate real fights at all. If they did then there's be weapons and multiples and drink and death and broken necks left right and center.

I think they're studies of movement that allow some degree of use in a real situation.... they're not trying to mimic it because you can't. They're also character building things, which lead the practioner away from needless violence...... but probably no more than being a dedicated athletics or kite-flyer.

Sure aikido's gone down the go-with-the-flow root, and Judo's become sport-orienated but so what..... I think the practioners are welll aware of this. I doubt their out there everyday getting in life-or-detah situations hoping their style "works". MA is a journey thing for most people who aren't in the security business, not a destination thing.

Screaming Monkey

as a beginner in aikido, have to agree with "pearsquasher", am under no illusions..and as a side note got the following book, highly recommended for anyone starting off and beyond..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aikido-Exercises-Teaching-Training-Shifflett/dp/155643314X/

Fav Quote..
"There are no mystifying black and white photos of two angry looking guys throwing each other to the floor with a technique which has a six word Japanese name. Instead there is a great deal of reassuring, level-headed honesty about what Aikido is and, equally important, what it is not, as well as some very workable training tips."